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| i just spoke with mr. steineke who has no bill and no initiative whatsoever on this subject. he had a conversation with rodger ... that's it ... and responded suggesting there would have to be a huge grassroots initiative that would have to go through the CC before a bill such as this would be sponsored.
so, there is no association by mr. steineke to this initiative and he will be making calls to make sure everything is clear.
very impressed with the quick and personal response given by mr. steineke |
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Location: 31 | I seriously doubt that Tim Simonsen could be coerced into doing something he did not truly believe in. As a matter of fact, he helped with the wording (taken from the original post) on the very question you're asking.
"Registration requirement: No person may possess a muskellunge taken by hook and line from the state waters unless he or she registers the fish in the manner required by the department. (A registration program similar to that of the Canada goose would provide the accuracy and precision required for better management of the species)." There's nothing confusing about the proposed muskie stamp, it's pretty black and white. At this point, you are either interested in contacting your legislator, or you're not. I'm heading out of town in about an hour for a week of fishing.
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Speaking strictly on one issue involved with this, I don't really think a stamp would help much at all in terms of keeping/ not keeping fish...I mean as a guide up there pointed out on the other site, who exactly is going to be around on the lakes to enforce this stamp? I have personally been checked a whopping single time ever in Northern WI, how about you?
Food for thought..but on a recent fishing trip I had a discussion with an older angler who shared a story with me..There used to be a "musky stamp" on Rainy Lake...The angler accidentally hooked into and caught a 49" years ago, he was stampless and the fish went to the bottom of the boat. Day or 2 later he ran into town with the fish in his freezer and bought the stamp, and to the taxidermist the fish went.."legally"
There's nothing wrong with trying to address an issue, and I'm not sure what the answer is. I certainly don't agree that there is a "crisis" in Northern Wi, and in terms of getting bigger fish to rival Mn and Canada I don't see a scenario where a stamp is going to be the turning point to achieve that. I think the whispers I heard earlier in the year about getting a statewide minimum size limit will be a much better start and then go from there....
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Location: The desert | Jerry Newman - 9/20/2011 3:54 PM
I seriously doubt that Tim Simonsen could be coerced into doing something he did not truly believe in. As a matter of fact, he helped with the wording (taken from the original post) on the very question you're asking.
"Registration requirement: No person may possess a muskellunge taken by hook and line from the state waters unless he or she registers the fish in the manner required by the department. (A registration program similar to that of the Canada goose would provide the accuracy and precision required for better management of the species)." There's nothing confusing about the proposed muskie stamp, it's pretty black and white. At this point, you are either interested in contacting your legislator, or you're not. I'm heading out of town in about an hour for a week of fishing.
You're still relying on the person to follow through. I know for a fact several of my college friends did not register the geese they shot.
Sounds like this is a moot point anyway as this will never go through. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Tired - 9/20/2011 3:28 PM
Maybe sled and pointer could do better, lets see what you can do. I am waiting.
you might be surprised at what sled and pointer did to clean up the misinformation being put out on this subject.
Edited by jonnysled 9/20/2011 4:29 PM
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| It is OK to have different opinions on this issue. But, imho, you go too far (Sled and Pointer) when you suggest Roger or Jerry are doing anything other than trying to help muskies in Wisconsin. If a politician told Roger to get grassroots support, I applaud him for making the effort to do so. I can disagree with some aspects while respecting the goal and personal effort they're making. |
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Location: Freedom, WI | It has brought to my attention that some people(one in particular) think a bill has been introduced, it has not. This was posted to get people to contact their Rep and support/not support the stamp idea, so there would be enough interest to introduce it. Why introduce it if it will fail? I thank Rep Stieneke for doing his job and trying to get support for something his constituents brought up. Hope this ends any confusion if any. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | rodger associated the politician's name to being the lead in developing interest to propose a bill that would establish a tax for public use. the politician told rodger he would ask around, he found no support and has no association or interest in leading a tax on public use which is what is being claimed in the first sentence of the first post on this site.
going too far is tying someone's name to something they do not support ... which is what has been done in this regard. but don't take it from me, call rep. steineke and he'll tell you himself. |
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Location: The desert | lambeau - 9/20/2011 4:37 PM
It is OK to have different opinions on this issue. But, imho, you go too far (Sled and Pointer) when you suggest Roger or Jerry are doing anything other than trying to help muskies in Wisconsin. If a politician told Roger to get grassroots support, I applaud him for making the effort to do so. I can disagree with some aspects while respecting the goal and personal effort they're making.
Trying to help muskies in Wisconsin will always be a good thing. The way it was represented here (intentionally or unintentionally) was not the best. We're all for the betterment of musky fisheries and fisheries in general, but the angle here was poorly played. Nothing against Roger (who is a great guy) or Jerry. But the representation of the facts were misleading at best, and needed to be pointed out.
I don't think I've attacked either Roger or Jerry here in this thread. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | lambeau - 9/20/2011 4:37 PM
It is OK to have different opinions on this issue. But, imho, you go too far (Sled and Pointer) when you suggest Roger or Jerry are doing anything other than trying to help muskies in Wisconsin.
you believe everything your read mike? or if something doesn't make sense, do you check it out for yourself? |
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Location: 31 | I don't think there's anything to attack? Perhaps Roger could have used a little better wording in the initial post, but I can assure you nothing was intentionally misrepresented.
The fact remains that we are still looking for initial support for the muskie stamp. I'll check back next week when I return.
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Location: The desert | Jerry Newman - 9/20/2011 5:59 PM
I don't think there's anything to attack? Perhaps Roger could have used a little better wording in the initial post, but I can assure you nothing was intentionally misrepresented.
The fact remains that we are still looking for initial support for the muskie stamp. I'll check back next week when I return.
Agreed. Though I don't think you will find the support you were looking/hoping for. |
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Location: Freedom, WI | Sled - He was working for me, he is my Rep and You red into it that he was supporting it. Is that not what he is supposed to do and if he gets no support from other Reps and constituents it goes nowhere. That is how the system is supposed to work. Relax a little. |
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | Pointer- No you have not attacked me, thank you. |
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| I "read into it"? ... Nah, I just read it. Are you playin the attack card? Seriously?
h2os2t - 9/20/2011 6:36 PM
Sled - He was working for me, he is my Rep and You red into it that he was supporting it. Is that not what he is supposed to do and if he gets no support from other Reps and constituents it goes nowhere. That is how the system is supposed to work. Relax a little. |
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Location: Freedom, WI | Not attacking, When I reread it I still do not get the impression that he introduced a bill, I guess I did not learn to speak legalese. Then again my mother always said when everybody went left I went right.  |
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| Lots of confusion is clearer now. Nobody is against funding fisheries, its all about "how" and "where" the money comes from and goes to and especially who holds the purse. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'We are going to give the DNR more money to manage the fishery. HAH! In my opinion, it does no good as long as spearing is allowed. Lakes have a tough time producing trophy fish when the big girls are speared every spring. '
Spearing is not 'allowed' by the DNR or anyone else in State Government, it's a treaty RIGHT upheld by the Supreme Court.
It's clear the overall average size and big fish opportunities in Wisconsin have improved, fisheries state wide are now managed as trophy fisheries, and fisheries that have shown past potential for big fish are now managed as lower density/higher quality fisheries where larger size limits are in place resulting in MUCH lower harvest.
Better muskie fishing in Wisconsin now that ever. Harvest is WAY down, release is WAY up.
'I disagree with Worral (not too popular, but I'll do it anyway) about the fishing being better today than it was years ago. I grew up fishing the lakes in Vilas county for muskies. I saw and caught larger fish twenty five years ago than I do today up there. In terms of pure numbers, there may be more Class A musky lakes with higher densities of fish, but we do not have the trophy fishery now compared to back then. Just a personal observation.... '
At least spell my name right. And what's the attitude about? LOTS of people disagree with me. So what?
My personal observation is far more 'big fish' caught now that ever in this state back to the seventies, can't comment further back than that. Show me records, ANY written or published records of big fish from that era to today that contradict this, please. |
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| Add another one to the against category.
The issue I have with a muskie stamp idea is that there hasn't been a plan proposed or even hinted at that I would support.
Is it a harvest tag/stamp? Well, I'm not buying one because I'm not going to keep a fish
Is it a general stamp purchased so you can fish for them? Enforcement would be a bugger, this has already been discussed.
Comparing this to trout/salmon doesn't work. When you are out on Lake Michigan dragging j-plugs and flasher/dodger rigs it's pretty obvious what you are targeting. When you are on a trout stream poking around with a fly rod or tossing spinners and spoons it's a safe bet you're not after chubs. The importance of having a Great Lakes trout stamp can't be understated. The economic impact of having a salmon fishery is gargantuan compared to the importance of the muskie industry. If muskie fishing was the engine behind the economy in a major geographical range in Wisconsin then there would be a greater push for such a thing. It isn't and the fact that muskie angling is essentially a niche hobby in the greater scheme of things is lost on so many of us. We are not the only ones out there, in those of us who pursue muskies make up a very small percentage of the angling public.
If I was forced to purchase a stamp so I could fish for them I would do it reluctantly. If given the choice to buy or not buy a stamp I wouldn't buy one. I'll invest that ten bucks into my local club so it can be spent in the area. |
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Posts: 272
| Yikes.
There's two separate bills in the opening post, gentlemen. Just wanted to point that out, as one has been ignored.
Debate is good. Not everyone is going to be on board with all of it. I certainly wasn't originally, and I myself will have to hold my nose and vote for this if it ever comes around to a vote. However, all this wordsmithing and dissecting people's posts only serves to drive a spike right down the middle of the muskie community, IMO. The (stamp/tag) topic itself will be enough of a separator as it is.
Meanwhile, anyone interested in seeing increased protection for Green Bay muskies has info on the opening post on how to contact legislators to show support of that idea.
FYI, Roger and a handful of others have spent a TON of time on this. Which obviously doesn't mean you have to support it or him in this endeavor simply because of that..... but at least know that folks are trying, have spent hours and hours on this, and please try to have a little respect for a guy who has done his darndest at getting ahead of what many of us see as inevitable with this situation down the road. Money's gone, folks. And we're a teeny, tiny contingent.
Thanks,
-Eric |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Guest - 9/20/2011 8:58 PM
Lots of confusion is clearer now. Nobody is against funding fisheries, its all about "how" and "where" the money comes from and goes to and especially who holds the purse.
sorry ... i'm the guest - sled |
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Posts: 1036
| See, I knew it would not be popular!!!
Steve, I give you personal experience as an indication of the fishery that I see now as opposed to years ago. It is okay to disagree. I know that you and others probably have seen the opposite. I've been fishing Vilas County since 1980 and I've seen the fishery decline. Both walleyes and muskies. I've also seen the tourism industry decline. Correlation? You can't tell me that spearing hasn't negatively affected the lakes and that is my point. Why spend more money to try to fix a problem that can't be fixed without addressing the spearing issue? When you are constantly taking the large females out of the system, genetically you get smaller fish. Over time, that can be devastating to a fishery.
On the walleye front, 13 inch walleyes aren't being speared. 15 inch walleyes aren't being speared. 18-30 inch walleyes are being speared. Go to North Twin sometime. Tell me how many sub 15's you catch versus legals. That is a tough ratio man. It wasn't that way years ago. Muskie wise it is the same deal. Big girls get speared and cannot spawn to pass on their genetic traits. Less big fish in the water, another good genetic sample gone from the lake. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I've fished those same waters since 1974. Guided up there for near 20 years.
Do some studying on the Muskie numbers that were harvested as an average in the 70's through the early nineties. The numbers of large muskies harvested by spear (EXCEPT for where excessive winter spearing occurs) is not anywhere near what used to be harvested before CPR and larger size limits came to be.
There's absolutely no evidence that 'genetically' there's anything wrong with Wisconsin Muskie size structure, in fact the exact opposite has been indicated by the study done by Dr. Sloss and new programs are already underway as a result. Any fish you would call a 'big girl' has already spawned several times IF there's NR available on the water body under discussion.
Walleyes have been effected...no question, but not as much from spearing as the influx of huge numbers of largemouth bass in many waters, and the harvest overall, especially during the winter by ice anglers. Read a few creeling reports you apparently think are not necessary. But we weren't talking walleyes, were we? To say there's no point in managing a resource because of harvest is patently ridiculous. INCREASED management from both entities is needed, and in many cases, already in effect. Study up a little on GLIFWC. And there is no 'addressing' or 'fixing' treaty law, it's law and that's that. Look into harvest numbers...the rest of us take FAR more than the tribes on the average ceded territory water.
My son creeled Crescent last year. |
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Posts: 229
| Vegas492,
If you can't catch bigger muskies today than you did 20 years ago, you need to change your tactics...
John |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | Steve ... do you think one begets the other on the walleye situation? i agree that the LMB and SMB are overwhelmingly taking over the walleyes on many systems and have dramatically changed the walleye situation in the northwoods of wisconsin. but was the spearing pressure the catalyst that "weakened the herd" so-to-speak allowing it all to come about?
john ... why not contribut something someday?? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Sled,
Not according to the biologists I have talked to. The warmer waters in the summer, warmer and shorter winters, degrading habitat for walleyes that better suits largemouth, and the fact the bass make a meal of walleye fry/fingerlings and compete big time seems to be the deal. I have heard there will be some special regs to encourage bass harvest next season. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | jason sloan and i have been talking about this over the past 4 years especially on the minocqua chain. i don't keep tabs on how the big fall bass tournament does but i fish LMB's out there a lot and have a few spots that are just filled with bass. they're so much fun it's just hard to get anyone off of it once you have a "go-to" spot. most of my spots are deep weed/sand-grass where walleyes "should" be. you can always fish em at the boat-house and dock structure and do well, but when you venture to the hog-pens and see what you find you really take notice of the enormous change that's happened in such a short period of time.
jason's comment is that they are in the same family as gils? so encouraging harvest is good ... i've never been one to eat bass but most of that conditioning comes from my days in texas and tennesse where they are treated as the top-predator gamefish along with not wanting to eat fish out of summer waters down there.
it's an interesting subject and has become an incredible fishery ...
not sure it's all bad but would like to have my cake (walleyes) and eat it too (bass)
do the bass hit the musky fry too??
Edited by jonnysled 9/21/2011 7:36 PM
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Location: Brookfield, WI | It's all that native spearing that's ruining fishing. I think the DNR should put a stop to that. Doyle should use some of that tobacco settlement money to buy out those treaties. Then the walleyes would grow back and the muskies get bigger.
My 2 sense.
Kevin
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Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | Keep up the good work Roger |
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Posts: 582
| MuskyHopeful - 9/21/2011 10:26 PM
It's all that native spearing that's ruining fishing. I think the DNR should put a stop to that. Doyle should use some of that tobacco settlement money to buy out those treaties. Then the walleyes would grow back and the muskies get bigger.
My 2 sense.
Kevin
"Doyle" ???????? |
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