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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | I'm with RK on this one, my thrill comes from catching the fish not in if it is 41"3/4 or 42" who cares. I think taking a fish out of THE WATER or net holding the fish up and laying it on a Hopefully WET Bumpboard to see if it is a 1/2 " longer or not is well WHATEVER |
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| Thanks for proving the point, Bob, that many folks believe we are going backwords in the "muskie world." In the 70's, muskie anglers were killing almost 50 percent of the muskies caught. As Muskies Inc. and other conservation minded movements came along, this changed. Change didn't come easy, but it came along. Quotes such as "release 'em right", "release them ALL", "let them go, let them grow", "water release" became themes - care for the fish. It is quite simple, less healthy fish in a body of water/country/continent equates to less fish able to be caught. Live fish, rather than dead fish, provide a bit more excitement at the end of an angler's line. They tend to reproduce a bit better, as well...
Fish brought into the boat risk a greater chance of boucing around, hitting their heads/eyes, etc than those left in the water - thus injuring themselves. They go without oxygen for a longer period of time, thus increasing stress. I don't write this for you, your mind is obviously made up, I write this for others who desire to follow proper release techniques - proven techniques.
As tournaments increased in popularity (yes, I realize that this tends to be a pro-tournament site), the total number of muskie anglers increased, and the muskies' range/occurance in various bodies of water increased we seem to have slid backwords in care/concern for the fish themselves. I'm all for new anglers into the sport, but many newer anglers to the sport have no idea where the muskie world has come from just since the late '70's and this needs to be known.
Everyone is on a varying/ranging spectrum in concern for the fish. My side tends to lean one way and yours is obviously closer to going back towards hitting them on the head or shooting them before you bring them into the boat for measure.
DC |
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| DC, from the day cameras were invented fishermen have been taking pictures. That has never changed and it never will. How is it you see this as going backwards? I really chuckle when guys say they are so concerned but are fishing with hooks. |
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| For all those reading this thread - a good read is Dr. Casselman's summary of "guidelines for proper handling techniques" published by the province of Ontario. Casselman and Crossman have a roughly 40 years of experience, each, in the world of all things muskie. IF you don't trust big bob or me, just read the text regarding exposure to air and what it does to the gills and such...
If you struggle finding it, go to "Google Scholar" and type in key words "muskie release" and then scroll down a bit. Also see if this works, if I can get all the characters correct; http://mnr.gov.on.ca/stdprodconsume/groups/lr/@mnr/@letsfish/docume...
DC
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| Water temps and putting a fish on a bumpboard, big difference. Here's how I see it.
Do the number of fish found floating go up when water temps are hot ? Yes, we can all agree we see and find fish floating during this time.Is anyone finding floaters on lakes they think are from guys putting them on a bumpboard for 3 seconds? I don't think so.
Many guys fish small private lakes that they might be the only ones catching muskies in it for a week. Are they finding floaters from their bumpboard exposure and a couple pics? Not that I know.
If DC or anyone thinks that this added stress is really killing more fish than what you are doing to them already I would challenge the group that thinks that to do a study and prove it.
Until there is one I think it's comical imho. |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
I suppose maybe you need a study to find out if hitting yourself in the privates actually hurts?? I mean there isn't one out there, so maybe it really doesn't??
This is exactly the mentality that proves fish handling and awareness of said handling is going backwards from where we once were.
I guess once you put a hook in a fish after that nothing makes any difference. Maybe on my next catch I'll just take the fish home with me to show the kids and then drive it back to the lake to release it.
JS
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| Rationalize anything you want, think it comical even... The point being made is reducing stress within the given bounds of the angling techniques.
Yep, we use hooks. This has been mentioned in previous posts within this thread already; but I'll say it again, then I'm done to let individuals ponder this themselves and decide on their own. For instance, myself, I use single hooked bucktails the vast majority of the time. I tend not to bring fish in the boat if at all possible. I hold fish horizontally for pics if pics are taken - and they should be taken! I try to reduce chances, as much as possible, for fish injury. That is what is being discussed here.
We can participate in the sport we love to whatever degree we so choose. I have the right, here in MN, to go catch a muskie of legal size (each day) and go feed it to my dogs or bury it in my garden if I desire. I can treat the fish with no respect, lift them up by the eyes (this too was standard procedure not that long ago until folks were educated about the fact that it damages the fish), keep them out of the water for as long as I want, lay them on a hot,dry bump board and release them, too. I could stun them with a club to "subdue" them while I bring them into the boat. We have the right to do all these things.
The point being made is this: Why not reduce the stressors to the fish so more fish live? This was standard practice for a couple of decades. Water sticks were used instead of bump boards. And that is what started this discussion regarding bump boards.
DC |
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| I think some people need to quit fishing period, if they feel that strongly about harming a fish. Seems like sort of a double standard though doesnt it?......Im gonna bury this here 8/0 in your head as hard as I can, but I am very concerned I might hurt you if I take your picture or try to see how big you are.
Come on guys, seriously?????????? WOW! I guess the heatwave is getting to everyone.
There is nothing wrong with a quick measure, photo and release. If done quick, correct, and efficiant there should be no worries. Im not gonna feel pressure from anyone to stop measuring my fish and taking pictures of them correctly. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | DC, I think most if not all of us can agree that it probably does cause slighty more harm to the fish by measuring it and taking a pic...but I don't think anyone who has a bumpboard does it on a hot dry one..that's a stretch...do you realllllly think that those that do are killing fish because of a bumpboard and measure??? I suppose those unskilled or inexperienced in it might cause some harm should they drop a fish or let one bounce around a boat (or some even let it flop out of the boat before measuring he he) but really....I guess I am confident and experienced enough that I'm quite certain I'm not killing fish by a quick measure and pic....I have lots of reasons to believe this.... |
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Posts: 444
| I agree, nothing wrong with a quick bump. Besides dont the DNR net Muskies, in a net, pull them out of the water and such to install pit tags, or RF tags and such?? |
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| going backwords - 8/12/2010 7:32 AM
My side tends to lean one way and yours is obviously closer to going back towards hitting them on the head or shooting them before you bring them into the boat for measure.
DC
I never inferred that. There are many variables that effect mortality and I'm just putting a weight to them. |
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| Rob, if i hear you correctly, your basic point is that an over-emphasis on measurement leads to additional time-out-of-water for the fish. that's a very obviously true statement.
if we accept the also obvious fact that many of us will always want to accurately measure and photograph at least some of the fish we catch, then we should make sure to do it in the most fish-friendly way possible. i'm sure you did so in the pictures you've used in your books and articles.
my experience has been that when getting a photograph and measurement of the fish, the bumpboard is the quickest and most fish-friendly way to go. it's infinitely better for the fish and more accurate than messing around with a tape measure in the boat; it's not as fish-friendly as measuring in the water, but clearly more accurate. since it floats, i'm going to start trying the bump-board in the water and maybe i'll get the best of both worlds.
all of which begs the question: at what point do i stop wanting/needing a "classic" out-of-the-water picture of every fish and stop wanting/needing that 1/4" measurement? is it fish below a certain size? is it after catching a certain number? where's that point for me? for you?
the psychological term is "self-actualization", the idea that some people reach their full potential in various aspects of their life. not everyone reaches this level.
when it comes to catching muskies, Rob and Doug and others like them clearly have done so. and i think of the iconic picture of Jack Burns water releasing a big fish, he was there too.
so is favoring and encouraging those kinds of pictures the next step in a person's personal move towards self-actualizing as catch-and-release anglers? what's it take to let go of that desire to "own" the fish in a picture and with a number?
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
I think everyone goes through "stages" in what is or isn't important to them in regards to hunting and fishing.
I also think that it has a lot to do with the surrounding culture of the group of fishermen or hunters.
If the majority of anglers didn't take in the boat measurements and photos of very many, or any fish, than it would be much more accepted in the angling community.
But since it is a minority of anglers that walk that line it's looked as odd, ecentric and over the top.
If you put muskie angling on a scale of 1 to 10. With 1 being not fishing at all, and 10 being killing the fish, than every angler would fall somewhere on that scale.
Where you do or don't fall on that scale is up to you. Fishing handling isn't black and white. You can't think that because we fish with hooks that nothing else matters. The idea that if you take extra precautions with fish after you hook them is hypocritical is also ridiculous.
If any of you have seen the movie "Strange Brew", there is a scene where they are driving the van and the brakes go out. The one brother than says "well there is no point in driving now" and takes his hands off the steering wheel.
That's kind of like saying because you put a hook in the mouth what's the point of worrying about any addes stress due to handling. Ridiculous.
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Location: The Yahara Chain | john skarie - 8/12/2010 8:10 AM
I suppose maybe you need a study to find out if hitting yourself in the privates actually hurts?? I mean there isn't one out there, so maybe it really doesn't??
This is exactly the mentality that proves fish handling and awareness of said handling is going backwards from where we once were.
I guess once you put a hook in a fish after that nothing makes any difference. Maybe on my next catch I'll just take the fish home with me to show the kids and then drive it back to the lake to release it.
JS
This is the kind of holier than thou attitude that turns people off. Where did this analogy come from? Pretty ridiculous imo.
I agree with Matt and BN.
I fail to see how a bumpboard hurts a fish. In fact since I got one it has helped me get the fish back faster. My fish are out of the water for about 30 seconds, in that time frame I get two quick photos and and a quick measurement. Most people are measuring a fish whether they have a bumpboard or not. The measuring process goes much quicker with a bumpboard, so to me they are a good tool to have in your boat.
While I respect the approach that RK, DC and JS take with their fish, they have to realize that they are in a place that most anglers will never get to....I know I won't.
Implying that anglers like myself, BN or Matt D don't care about the fishery as much as you guys because we take a quick photo with a quick measurement is absurd.
Are you guys paying attention to what is going on with Project Noble Beast????
Year one seemed to show that there is zero difference in the stress level of the fish if you water release or you have a quick release that includes time for a picture and a measurement. I suggest you contact Sean Landsman and ask him about what he has learned in the study so far. |
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| Hey guys,
Not to worry. In about 8-12 years we"ll have mainstream cameras that will automatically measure the fish. Whether you choose to pull it out of the water is up to you. |
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Posts: 580
| RK_unlogged - 8/11/2010 11:29 PM
I just have a hard time fitting a bump board into that equation. I think you can measure a fish in ways that are safer for everyone (you and the fish) that might be a little less accurate but a lot faster and easier on the fish. I get right back to what matters more - the fish, or how exactly how big it is.
I kind of thought the "if you're so worried about them don't use hooks" argument would come up before long. It always seems to. But I don't buy the reductio ad absurdum. I prefer single treble bucktails and two treble plugs when I can because they make fish easier to unhook, and I love spinnerbaits, but of course some fish will get hooked badly. I had one last week. It happens. If you start talking about not using hooks, you aren't talking about fishing anymore. I like to fish.
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I dont think its reduction ad absurdum...not saying that you should stop fishing if you care so much for the fish. You and Doug J offer a fair point that any unnecessary stress through measuring and photographing is potentially harmful to the fish. But I think its a fair point to consider that, in the context of all that we do to potentially traumatize a fish, focusing on the bumpboard as the big problem is a bit of missing the forest because of the trees.
Maybe I use a bumpboard differently than what youre envisioning? I use it like Brad and Troy describe. After unhooking the fish in the net (and while the fish and net are submerged), the fish is taken from the net directly to the bumpboard, which is already laid out and is wet. The fish goes to the bumpboard for probably somewhere around 3-5 seconds. Like you, Im really not that concerned about getting an exact measurement to the closest , its just a quick eyeballing of the nearest inch, after which the fish is held up for a quick photo, and then immediately back into the water. The entire out of water time is 15-30 seconds, and typically closer to 15 than 30.
I guess Im just having some trouble wrapping my head around your premise: the concept of dire harm occurring to the fish during those 15 seconds or so, where the fish is laid flat on a wet board (weight evenly distributed, and slime coating not disturbed) for a couple seconds and then quickly lifted for a photo before returned to the water.
Granted, not all anglers handle the fish this way and an example of this is from another thread on this board where the fish was out of water for 3+ minutes for measuring on a bumpboard and photos. So, from that perspective, I totally get where you seem to be coming from. But, is it the bumpboard itself that is problem in that equation? Or, is it the fact that the anglers didnt know how to correctly use it? I'd say it's the latter.
One last thought. Im local to Madison and in the local Muskies Inc. club. A handful of PIT tag scanners were given out to club members, including myself. The club is working with the local WDNR biologists to track and record growth of stocked fish, and one of the conditions of use of the scanner is that ALL muskies caught need to be measured on a BUMPBOARD. Obviously, if the local biologists thought that wed be killing the fish through use of the bumpboard, Im guessing that they wouldnt have had that requirement. Maybe the bumpboard isn't such an evil thing?
Anyways, I truly do applaud your ethics as well as Doug J and others, and I certainly mean no disrespect whatsoever. I guess that I would just say that maybe instead of condemning the bumpboard, its more important to educate anglers of the proper use of it, (i.e., I dont think that Im acting unethically toward the fish the way that Ive been using it).
Edited by Matt DeVos 8/12/2010 9:12 AM
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Posts: 785
| While I agree it's best on the fish to not take it out of the water, I also agree it's best to not fish for them at all as driving hooks through their beak and fighting them to exhuastion is probably the hardest part on the fish if the measurements and photos are done in a quick and efficient manner. My step dad got this 53 earlier this year. You better believe we got a measurement! (btw in the pic he had just layed it down, we did get it slid all the way forward for the actual measurment for the fish police out there). I think it's great that the seasoned veterans are to the point that they don't get pics of every fish... but it seems hypocritical that it's OK to measure an over 50 but not a 40?? Afterall isn't an over 50 the more valuable resource?? If our main concern is to preserve the fish wouldn't we worry less about a 35 and be super careful with a 55? I catch between 15-30 fish a season. I want the memories to look back on in years to come. Take a measure and a quick pic if it's important to you. If it's not than don't...
Andy
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| how bout this for thought???
How many fish have been saved by bumpboards??? Fish have always been measured since who knows when. Now since boards have become popular, how many fish are thriving or alive, because of being laid on a wet board vs. the bootom of a boat or on the carpet etc?? Bump boards have become very popular and more and more people are buying them. Which tells me less and less people are laying them in the bottom of the boat or on the carpet etc. |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
I don't think anyone said that using a board or taking pictures means you don't care.
What it really boils down to is that we can all agree that less handling is less stressful. That is a point that can't be argued.
What you take from that statement, and how it changes or doesn't change your fish handling procedures is up to you.
As fishermen we all put hooks in fish, what happens after that is where the individual angler takes his own path.
I'm sure 30 years ago all muskie anglers that were promoting C&R were considered fanatics, eccentric and "holier than thou" types. People don't think that now.
JS
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Posts: 543
Location: WI | Todays reality is that more people are getting into muskie fishing b/c they want to catch big fish and when they catch them, they want to know how big it is. That said, it does seem like a lot of people want to learn how to catch them w/o thinking about what to do when they do get one. It annoys the crap out of me watching big fish being caught on the offseason t.v programming and they take the fish out for the camera and are like "lets get them back quick!" Then the next magazine comes out and they have a shot of the fish that clearly wasn't on the program and the length. Why they don't take the time to show the world how to quickly and properly handle the fish, I do not know. |
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Posts: 224
Location: Madison | john skarie - 8/12/2010 8:40 AM
If you put muskie angling on a scale of 1 to 10. With 1 being not fishing at all, and 10 being killing the fish, than every angler would fall somewhere on that scale.
Where you do or don't fall on that scale is up to you.
I think this is an excellent point. I haven't fished locally since June because water temps are too high, but when I start again I will continue to take photos and measure fish on bump boards. That being said, I am glad for guys like Rob K and Doug that are farther along the scale than I am. I'll never catch as many muskies that I'm going to want to stop measuring them, but I'm glad there are guys out there who are doing that. And I'll take as much care as I can with the fish I do catch.
Also, measuring fish on a bump board floating in the water is pretty easy and quick assuming you're not drifting fast. I've done it a number of times. |
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Posts: 32884
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Absolutely is up to each and every one of us.
I hand landed nearly every fish I caught from about 1994 to a couple years back. Have some large pliers to do water release, if the hooks will allow it safely, but will Frabill the fish if I think she will need special attention to get the hooks out these days, as I don't care to end up with them in me anywhere and I'm not as agile as I once was...damage to the tendons in the dominant hand slows me down a bit. I don't measure many any more, especially if they are under the mid 40" level, which equates for my water to a 50 on Doug's.
Doesn't mean I think no one else should. Please learn what it takes to exercise reasonable caution with fish handling, water release those fish you wish to, and enjoy your growth and experience in the sport. Those of you reading this thread who are relatively new muskie anglers...listen to the folks who tell you what tools you will need, and go out and buy them. Do your best to release your fish as quickly as is possible while enjoying and sharing the experience through images taken quickly and efficiently, and we've moved forward...not backward, in our conservation efforts as a group. Seems to me that's the vast majority here.
Those who have reached the level where no fish is photographed except for the giants, good for you...but remember from whence you came. The 'newbies' have to start somewhere. Please respect that.
30 years ago I was definitely promoting catch and release. I wasn't considered a fanatic or eccentric, probably because many of us moving in that direction at the time did our best to do so without condemning out of hand all other points of view.
Catch and Release, The Future Of Fishing IS In your Hands. |
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Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | Has anyone ever considered how your handling of fish may be affecting your total catch rate?
I have found that by getting better and better at catching and releasing fish quickly and efficiently, I have been able to put more and more Muskies in the net each year. When the fish are brought into the net quckly and released safely, the lure is back into the water after the next fish much sooner. Then my lure is out there again to catch another fish.
Years ago we used to spend ten, sometimes fifteen minutes celebrating a fish. While we didn't keep the fish out of the water for more than 15 or 20 seconds and we always got good releases, we didn't get our lures back into the water very quickly. That limited our ability to catch muliple Muskies on a given day. Since I've learned to "process" a fish quickly, typically under two minutes from hook-set to release, I have had many more multiple fish outings. I cannot even count how many times I have caught mutliple fish within minutes of each other in the past five years. More often than not, if I catch one, I catch two or more.
What I have learned is that there is often a 15-30 minute feeding window and one often catches a Muskie at the start of it. If you spend that entire time taking pictures and celebrating, you will only catch one fish. If you get the fish unhooked, measured, photographed, and released quickly so it takes right off, you can get your lure back into the water for the next fish.
My best results following this method was three Muskies that were 48, 48, and 49 in under 20 minutes. I was by myself and so I just got them them into the net quickly, unhooked them, did a quick water measurement (which probably wasn't that accurate), and sent them on their way. The 49 might have been closer to 50, but what does it really matter? I would never have caught her had I messed around setting up the camera with the tripod and taking pictures of the first 48, (which might have really been 48.5 or even 49). That takes to long by yourself and I didn't want to pass up chances at more fish and the quick releases paid off.
My plan these days is to catch as many Muskies as I can when I can. So, I use spinner baits that allow for very easy and quick unhooking, get them to the net quickly, take a quick water measurement, and then get them released as soon as possible. I only take pictures if someone is with me or if the fish is very large. If all goes like clockwork, the fish usually give me a shower as they take off. (I like that.) 
I must admit that I'm not always quite so fast when we aren't seeing any other fish. But when the fish are thick in an area, I'm going to get them released as soon as possible.
Just something to think about.
Edited by Herb_b 8/12/2010 1:37 PM
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Just recently got into the bump board game and I must say I think it is a much easier option, besides being more accurate I find the whole measuring process more smooth and the whole process takes less time overall. As far as hot handling fish, well...not all of us have the means to live on Lake of the Woods and all of the great fishing waters of MN that produce big fish. There's still something of a thrill to be able to hold, grab, pickup a big fish for that handful of times every fishing season, see no need to try and take that away from people.
I also want to chime in on the "water" measuring stick. I know full well this device was made with good intentions to measure your fish while in the water...Well, besides being difficult to use and inaccurate, I can assure you this stick is often being used for other means of measuring. That would be either laying the fish on the bottom of the boat with the stick next to it or more commonly a vertical hold of the fish being held next to the vertical stick. I have seen this done MANY times and often by good sticks who catch a lot of fish. Do I think they killed the fish by doing this? No I don't...but I certainly think the board would be a better way to go for the reasons mentioned. |
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Posts: 366
| I do believe that where Rob, Doug, Dan, Steve, and most other multiple decade muskie fishermen are is where most muskie fishermen are progressing to if they’re fairly involved with the muskie society discussions/education/experience. I know I have progressed to that state of release mentality and behavior, if not to the same degree, but in proportion to my own comparable experience level. I try to hand-land most sub 40”ish fish of my own, but won’t think twice about putting the net under a 44”+ muskie. I don’t measure and/or take photos of every fish anymore either, as I have 100+ muskie pictures and I simply don’t often take the time to look back at every 38”er I’ve caught, and when I do it doesn’t matter if it had actually been 37” or 39”.
That being said the decision is never certain is almost always situational. There are plenty of times where depending on where the hooks are, it is much easier for me and easier on the fish if I net it to work on it. It is more difficult for me to hang on to a fish by hand and keep its head underwater without the net supporting and securing the rest of the fish if I have to do anything more than grab a hook with the pliers and give it a quick jerk. I often struggled, and spent way more time necessary and putting undue stress on fish, because I was trying to do what I thought would be best for the fish at the time and tried to water release it. Sometimes you just can’t tell when a hook position will give you extra difficulty than it appears. At the same time it is very easy for a fish to give you more trouble in the net if it won’t stop trashing and rolls up and pins itself. What is better, a fish that won’t stop thrashing and rolling in the line as you try and hang on to it by the leader or a pair of pliers on the bait, or a fish that thrashes and rolls in the net pinning itself. It is purely situational. It takes time and experience to recognize which scenario will be best for the fish, and even then you aren’t always correct with decisions, but anglers need to keep reevaluating the situation as things happen.
If the release was very quick and easy and the fish is big, or very nicely marked then I’ll take a photo and/or a measurement. But if it was a struggle and I had to spend time cutting hooks and such then often I won’t take it out of the water even if it is big and/or especially pretty. IF the decision has been made to photo and/or measure a fish then the net and bumpboard process that most people have described here and that I use is in my opinion the best way for most anglers to do so accurately and QUICKLY. While I certainly respect Rob, Doug, and the others’ mentioned opinion on this matter, and in all things muskie, in my opinion and experience I can’t vilify correctly used bumpboards when a measurement matters to the angler. The floating ruler has a typical accuracy of +/-2” imho, especially if trying to measure and hold the fish by oneself. We all know that there is a big difference in 46” versus 50”, more so if it might be your first. When you get above four foot accuracy should matter, maybe not to everyone, but there certainly is a big difference in those two measurements to me. It takes a lot more time and handling of the fish to try and keep it straight and in place for a floating tube ruler than it does to set one on a wet board. Maybe someone can figure out a way to attach some bicycle inner-tube like pontoons to bumpboards so that they can be stable and used in the water more easily. But until then, then never taking the fish out of the water is usually best, but if you want a photo and an accurate measurement then the wet bumpboard is the way to go in my opinion.
Muskie fishing is so saturated with exaggeration and fish stories that to be honest sometimes I feel embarrassed to be associated with it. I’m not say that every person who muskie fishes is full of B.S., but it has been an underlying aspect of our sport for so long that many people don’t think any differently. There are many times when I wouldn’t even tell people I’m a fisherman let alone a muskie fisherman, because I don’t want to be involved with ridiculous stories and assumptions. Granted I could care less about whether a fish is 40” or 43”, but when someone shows me a picture of a mid-40” and says it is 52”, it is sort of insulting. I know it is silly to take offense to such things, but I love muskie fishing and I take it fairly seriously, and the lying and exaggeration is a part of muskie fishing that I’d love to see become a thing of the past just like shooting or thumping fish on the head. Sometimes it is purely done from ignorance and innocence on a beginner’s part, but trying to teach a newbie to be accurate within the safety of the fish is fairly important.
A newbie trying to be accurate with a floating ruler, usually means that they lay the fish on the carpet and put the ruler next to it, because guess what a newbie is going to be uncomfortable trying to hold a big fish with sharp teeth in the water with a floating tube at the same time. Even I have that trouble. Now if you want to try to get rid of measuring all together, so that fish go back in the water as quick as possible then that is another argument entirely. And, it has as likely a chance of happening, as my wish to end the B.S. I guess, not if everyone one day has auto-measuring cameras. But for newbies, or anyone else for that matter, I think the net and bumpboard is the safest for the angler and the fish to get an accurate measurement and a photo of their experience. Eventually, if an angler catches enough, they’ll get to the point of foregoing measuring and photos, but I wouldn’t suggest that someone just coming into the sport should do so. Maybe in many years that will become, “the earth is flat” mentality, but that is beyond my foresight. I certainly do agree that given the situation, not every fish needs to be measured and/or photographed, but that will be up to the angler to decide at the time being.
Ryan
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Location: Grand Forks ND | From reading this thread you would think musky fishing is almost a thing of the past and every fisherman is killing every fish they catch.
From what I have seen, however, musky fishing is better than ever regarding size(at least in MN), and a large majority of musky fisherman are releasing true giants and even possible state records. Dead fish don't grow, so that must mean a lot of people are releasing fish and these fish are surviving.
I know we have to keep on top of it because of the new people entering the sport, but I think the respect given for the safe handling and releasing of musky has never been better!
Edited by MuskyManiac09 8/12/2010 4:22 PM
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Posts: 366
| Agreed. I see how the need for so many to measure to the 1/16” of an inch and photo every single fish can have a fairly detrimental affect on fish in some degree. But, to say that bumpboarding fish is a step back towards thumping and keeping most fish, is in my opinion a bit off base. The discussion of most techniques or practices should be about the best way to do them, because if you get into a discussion about what is and isn’t necessary in muskie fishing, then you must admit that the whole process is unnecessary. Otherwise, where else does the conservation mindedness stop? You could probably catch a muskie or two on a bait without hooks, and I’d probably try to if I had no alternative, but does any one really want it to be that way just to minimize human impact? When discussing specific situations you can just about always come up with the best process to do something, but for generalities there are two many situational differences and personal preferences and/or abilities that determine the possibilities.
BTW, in case I haven’t made it clear, I started this thread to discuss inaccurately REPORTING measurements, not inaccurately taking measurements, but that is the way the cookie has crumbled.
Ryan
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Posts: 551
Location: Columbus, Georgia | lambeau - 8/12/2010 9:25 AM
the psychological term is "self-actualization", the idea that some people reach their full potential in various aspects of their life. not everyone reaches this level.
when it comes to catching muskies, Rob and Doug and others like them clearly have done so. and i think of the iconic picture of Jack Burns water releasing a big fish, he was there too.
so is favoring and encouraging those kinds of pictures the next step in a person's personal move towards self-actualizing as catch-and-release anglers? what's it take to let go of that desire to "own" the fish in a picture and with a number?
Very well put by lambeau. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i noticed that when topics get more foolish, words get bigger and more poetic, posts get longer and spelling gets poorer ... as a general rule.
carry-on |
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| We can't all be a master of the one-liners, Sled. |
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