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| Type "Diets of Muskellunge in Northern Wisconsin Lakes" in your internet seach and you'll find the info I was refering to earlier. |
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| I know that DERRYs, the problem is I dont think alot of walleye, bass, panfish, fisherman do. Thats why I said maybe we should be spending some time educating them. I grew up in northern wis and have talked to residents in Minn. They think the musky is responsible and they hate them. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | For those that are interested, I've been in communication to some of the powers that be in the dark house group. We're going to have a meeting after day 1 of the MN DNR round table this weekend. I'm not going to promise any miracles, but it's a start. We're going to touch on this, but more how can we work together to weed out the miscreants as these poachers piss them off as much or more then us. Think about it, 99% of the dark house guys are legit and these clowns start this stuff. It takes away the legitimacy of their organization and sport as a whole. They don't want that in the least because they know where it'll lead. We're also going to have discussion about their sponsored negative public support of stocking new waters. I think I've made some in-roads, but time will tell.
For the record, if you look at that photo the spear was placed perfectly behind the head. That's an intentional shot. I'm not ripping spearing as a whole, just the donkey that did this. For those that know me, they know my father-in-law is a dark house guy and he was disgusted when I showed him the picture and he came to the same conclusion that I did. |
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| Good luck treats I hope for the best. DC |
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| This is a big problem that has a history on the lake and in the Spear and Release program that lurks and works in tight circles, it needs to be dealt with by both groups openly, I know there are a few that would just love to have a retaliatory act against a spear fisherman or their property then they could scream to the heavens to show the world how horrible we are, when if fact the act would probably be committed by the same type of guy that would poach this fish.
I would use the contacts given and ask for more CO's, The MMA and Chapter 54 sent letters to the Commissioner asking for more and if everyone would ask for and demand more PLUS ask for an increase in fishing license to help fund the additional officers we would have a step in the right direction.
I will also be voicing my concerns about the brood lakes as well as Leech, they need more observation and regulation to protect fish from harvest as well as poaching deterrents.
This is a very important time in the future of Muskies and the future of the new lakes we want stocked as well as new regulations that should be implemented, we need to keep in mind the sacrifices of those who worked without fail to give us what we have and we have to move forward with that sacrifice and vision in mind.
I firmly believe that Muskie interests and spearers will never agree on everything some issues are just too touchy and have a long and sorted past, I know the only way we will be able to keep the lines open is to work together on environmental and fisheries issues that are reflective of both groups interest there is plenty of issues within that category, then we will start seeing this type of poaching drop off.
I feel the TIP reward should be reflective of the fine for poaching a Trophy of any kind; say for a 50 inch fish what will be required to replace that fish? 500 fingerlings at $15.00 each or $7500.00.
The Dark house representative Ive worked with does not condone or support poaching or harvesting illegally, he is a man I have much respect for and he has shown me the same respect, even though we disagree on how big a Pike could get in MN, and the need for the current designated Muskie lakes.
ASK FOR MORE CO's
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| Glad to hear it Shawn I hope it doesn't end up like last years after meeting. |
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Posts: 720
| What happened after last years meeting? |
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| Discussion ensued LOL, all healthy, just interesting enlightenment. |
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| As far as fishing the brood stock lakes, I don't really have a problem with it if done responsibly.
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Let's just say the conversation last year got "colorful". 
Good thing I'm the DD this year right John? Don't mess with me and my 45 friends! LOL!!!!1 |
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Posts: 374
Location: Bemidji | We should save guides camping on brood stock lakes for another thread. This one has alot of interesting and intellectual comments and I don't want it to get locked down. |
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Posts: 21
Location: Wallingford, KY | What is all the tradition about anyway? Is there some unknown tribal ceremony involving musky? If this is just about survival and it's just about fish to eat, then, I'll personally all the way from Ky, send some frozen crappie, bass, bluegill, walleye, sauger, whatever from here to keep these musky from ending their lives at a spears end. I just don't understand the whole meaning of all this.
I didn't start fishing muskies till 2003, and have yet to kill one knowingly or have no intention of keeping one. There are plenty of pan fish be it bluegill or crappie in this area to eat without over fishing or exploiting a species.
The musky is a top of the chain predator and with that comes some limitations of excistence due to environmental or human detterents. This being said the US corp of engineers #*^@ed the licking river in the late 70's with it becoming a well known lake of which name is Cave Run. Thus they have determined that musky do not not reproduce as they naturally did before this reservoir. So to counter the positive effects of this reservoir to the human poplulation, they began an extensive and still going effort to keep the musky population of the area alive and well being by stocking thru outdoorsman and anglers license fees by stocking regularly musky back into the resource. We have a 30" limit (very small by any means) but I'm sure most people on here saw the new state record that came out of Cave Run very recently. This is due soley to CPR. No spearing here, only the occasional snagging which does happen.
I own 80 acres of land and 35 yrs ago a whitetail deer was almost non existent. 10 years ago a wild turkey was near non existent. Now I could open a window in my house and kill either species nearly daily, but I don't. My mother or father never had those opportunities growing up. Heck they didn't see a light bulb till they were in they're late teens. So it's all about humans and natures blessings and animals all trying to co-exist in the same environment.
This being said, and I'm venting as all that read all this can see. I will end this with one thought.
If you as a sportsmen, angler what be it, were to wake up tommorow and your wife and children need to eat and you had to go fishing to supply a meal for them, what would be your main fish fish to target?
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Posts: 32884
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Northern Pike. |
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Posts: 21
Location: Wallingford, KY | I understand. Northern Pike. I have fished Mi, UP Mi, Wi, and Mn and have yet to see a body of water that produces consistent or yet even close to good shot at a tropy pike consistently in the US. Why is this? Could it be that they are treated like a carp (rough fish) as here in Ky?
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Posts: 21
Location: Wallingford, KY | Yes, and the first fish it would be, I would have to ask how many hours anyone on this site puts toward putting a musky in a boat, off the the shore, by spear, hook or line, net, whatever anyone can do to get a fish? And tell me, anyone all knowing, would do and target as a fish to feed their child would do to catch any species of fish to survive? |
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Posts: 32884
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There are many lakes in Wisconsin that can and do kick out trophy Pike, one just needs to find them. Pike, for the most part, are managed in Wisconsin as a sport fish that is highly valued for it's table fare value. Some lakes are managed for big fish, with varying success. Bottom line is Pike are far more numerous than Muskie, are valued as table fare, and are managed as such on most waters here and I personally am delighted with it and have been since I moved here in 1974. The Pike fishing up here is the best now I can ever remember. Minnesota has set limits to increase size and populations in some waters recently, and Ontario set a slot in place I think would be interesting to apply on some Midwestern Pike waters here in the US. |
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Posts: 21
Location: Wallingford, KY | I agree with you 100% Steve. You have already disclosed the reason for their lakes (the pike) becoming of better size and #'s. I am from a state of only one or two readily options to musky fishing as we see it. Now with the limited access we have and the issues of what goes on up there with all the resources you all have, I just worry about the furure of any sport without regulations. |
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Posts: 32884
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There's plenty of regulations protecting the fish up here. Al Lindner yesterday while addressing the National Professional Anglers Association Conference said he feels the US fisheries are in excellent shape, and the Muskie fisheries in the US in better shape than they ever have been. The problem here is someone broke one of them in MN, and the possible motive for that infraction and the resulting loss of a nice fish is bothersome, because most Muskie folks want to keep the Muskie fisheries in the shape they are or improve them. Unfortunately, there's also a group or two in MN that work very hard to circumvent those efforts, and just as unfortunately some folks who do actually do it right end up in the undeserved crosshairs. People get mad, everything goes backwards for awhile, and we all lose...... all because some bonehead broke a law. It's always something, isn't it? |
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Posts: 21
Location: Wallingford, KY | I agree 100% again, Steve I'm not here to pick a fight or anything near it. It's always good to have a nice exchange of conversation (opinions). I have been a long time reader and now have enough time to converse online. Hope I haven't stepped on too many toes in the mean time. If so, that's what makes for good conversation as I see it. |
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Posts: 32884
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Not in the least! |
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Posts: 21
Location: Wallingford, KY | Nice to hear that you attended the NPAAC. ALL voices heard and anyone that takes their time and money that it takes to attend should be applauded by all anglers. I am for one very grateful as I as of now have not those resources, but look to those that do and this is the way to express our thoughts and emotions for the well being and future of our sport. Thanks again
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| As far as the trophy Northern Pike, I think your chances are very good on Northern Mn lakes...(Rainy, Basswood, Vermilion) just to name a few
I think the main reason you don't see that many true trophy Pike lakes is that they really are much more suited to cold water then Muskies, the further North you go the bigger they get... |
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Posts: 3147
| In Minn if I need a fish to eat fast its a pike not panfish,,,my god their everywhere even in North Shore brook trout streams on little 0 mepps spinners, finding true 1/2to 3/4 lb sunnies is a true goldmine,,,Id trade the location of an abandoned dnr muskie pond where we got 12 in one day for a producer of 3/4 lb sunnies |
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| Dude PM me I got your trade! DC |
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Posts: 431
| I'm not particularly familiar with all of the musky politics up north, but here's my take. Musky fisherman are a small-but by no means inconsequential-segment of the overall fishing population. As with all groups, musky fisherman have an agenda regarding conserving/regulating/expanding the fisheries. My sense, however, is that there are a wide range of goals among musky fishermen. This doesn't help the group. Ex. Missouri recently lowered the size limit on a lake-from 42"- because the Conservation Dept. saw no benefit from that lake having a different size limit. I don't agree with this decision, buy some might. However, the key inquiry is, should this be a sticking point? Most serious musky fishermen in Missouri probably favor expanding the fishery, and improving populations on existing lakes. While I am of the opinion that size limits accomplish those goals, those aren't the only means. Stocking efforts and habitat improvement are also key factors which all parties probably should agree on, making them much easier to pursue. Pushing those agendas also prevents the projection of an elitist image. Further, it's hard for other groups of non-musky fishermen to argue against habitat improvement or water quality improvement.
Given the percentage of musky fishermen, it's supremely important of us to be cognizant of other groups and potential benefits of joining forces. I see lots of folks advocating musky only positions-stocking, seasons and size limits. This furthers the elitist image of musky fishermen. I think it would be extremely beneficial to partner with other organizations in pushing common goals. If instead of 3% of the fishing population you can get multiple organizations behind proposals, chances of success rise dramatically. As mentioned earlier in this thread, increasing the number of Conservation officers would likely curb the number of fish of all species taken out of season. It might be possible for a variety of organizations to get behind such an effort. Further, you help create an image that musky fishermen are stewards of all resources, not just musky and musky lakes.
My point in saying all of this is that though the thought of a speared musky or any dead musky might be disgusting, don't forget the end goal which is not only preservation, but improvement of the fisheries. Everything said and done must be evaluated in a much larger context. |
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| Wow every sight has this on it. do you see all the lakes are in the bemidji area.heres a ? when was the last time spawn was take from a muskie in one of these lakes. im from the bemidji/cass lake chapter im a former president we ruffly have 35 members mostly familys the dark house asso has over 200 in the bemidji chapter when this stuff gets brought up my chapter suffers every time.their are alot of spears that are also muskie fishermen.i have been to all the dnr meeting on these lakes the last couple of years nothing has ever been brought up about a ban on brood stock lakes. wow i dont rember seeing mr. cochran at any of these meeting i have never seen him at a chapter meeting. contacting the bemidji chamber thats a joke the dark house asso puts on a kids fishing durby every year they give over 100 bikes away at the event our chapter trys getting along with the dark house asso. their are muskies speard every year for along time now, we here about it every year. i think the few that do get speard has not hurt the muskies in these lakes, must havent mr cochran is guiding on these lakes sounds like he does good every year. heres a thought how come all the lake you can spear on that have muskys in them have such a large pop of 50inch muskys maybe this is somthing the dnr should look at. |
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| Although I feel that Mr. Cochran has raised attention to a major problem, I think that it is much wiser for guides to just stay out of these types of discussions. I believe that if people took as much time writing to the DNR as they do complaining about what there not doing, something would get done. I personally plan on attending the next meeting in hopes of coming to a comprimise.
Part of me can understand why people want to spear on these brood stock lake its simple. Big Pike... The DNR takes and stocks these lakes after gathering information on how the fish will adapt and survive and alot of this is based off how fast and large pike grow in these waters. So the truth of that matter is these lakes have had big pike forever and that is exactly why people really push the dnr let them spear on these lakes.
I love musky fishing, I do it every day in the summer and strive to do everything possible to keep these fisheries growing, but i also understand the people who spear have the same rights as I do on these great waters. I just find it very sad that a few classless anglers can cause this much annimocity among sportsman.
Anyways I feel I have said enough. To all you musky anglers and legal spearers i wish you the best of luck in 2009! |
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Posts: 3147
| Do most spearers spear for food or for a trophy???,, I know its all for recreation..,Ive been around spearers at the open house meetings but never asked,,,,Because Im wondering if all of us got together for an outing and decided to have a shore lunch wouldnt we harvest the 3-4 1/2 lb pike??? I always find that the smaller pike are the best tasting,,unless their going to put it on the wall why do they want the larger pike. |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | happy hooker Good ??? I to have wanted to know if they spear for food or trophy ??? |
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| I know many who do both! It all depends on the person. I know some people who sit there the whole season and never drop their spear once! That is why it makes it so tough to ban spearing all together. If all they want is a 3-4 lbers than most woudn't spear on the brood stock lakes because there are many better lakes to get that size fish. I love the way that everyone automatically assumes that all spearing is for food! |
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