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| Pro/Am would NOT be good...not a chance |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | I think I have to agree. a pro-am event I do not think would work. Would I try it once? Probably if one was locally held. It could be a long weekend with a starnger in the boat when that much money is on the line. Its not just another guide trip.
Pfeiff |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Guest - 12/13/2008 8:24 PM
Pro/Am would NOT be good...not a chance
I guess I'd like to hear how it wouldn't work? Works great for bass and walleye tournaments, why couldn't it work for musky?
As for a long weekend in the boat with a stranger, you would draw two different co-anglers, one for day 1 and one for day 2. By having a pro/am style, that would decrease the chances of anyone feeling they can get away with cheating. A lot of guys who fish the PMTT are guides, it would be no different than spending two days in the boat with clients.
Also, a pro/am format would also help in the way of drawing sponsor $$$ which in turn would help out for payouts. Lots of good things from a pro/am style tournament, more good than I think a team deal, imho.
Edited by Merckid 12/13/2008 8:41 PM
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | How is a pro am event going to help with getting sponsors? Yes they are alot that are guides that fish tournaments. I just feel fishing a musky tournament is a team sport and team startagy. You fish with someone often enough your comfortable with them> You know when to pick each others minds. Your a team. A pro am event would take that away. Also as someone said you'd have no one to shard the expenses with and it would get costly.
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Don Pfeiffer - 12/13/2008 9:37 PM
How is a pro am event going to help with getting sponsors? Yes they are alot that are guides that fish tournaments. I just feel fishing a musky tournament is a team sport and team startagy. You fish with someone often enough your comfortable with them> You know when to pick each others minds. Your a team. A pro am event would take that away. Also as someone said you'd have no one to shard the expenses with and it would get costly.
Pfeiff
A pro/am event would help attract potential sponsors in the fact that you have Co Anglers who after fishing an event use the products they re introduced to by the Pro. From a sponsors perspective, they hope that after the tournament the C o Anglers go out and buy some of that neat stuff their pro had on their boat.
Now team events it's the same two guys fishing, the chances of them going out and buying new equipment isn't as likely. Sponsors would also get word a mouth from Co Anglers fishing the event. A guy fishes an event as a Co, he uses new product, he then goes and tells his buddy and so on. The exposure for the sponsor is much greater than a team already owning what they own.
So a walleye or bass tournament has no strategy? As a pro, it would be your job to teach your Co Angler to work a bait a certain way, learn a new technique, boat control, etc. So what it comes down to is, the better the teacher you are, the better your team can perform.
As for the expenses, with this new circuit looking to keep the tournaments in MN and WI, the expenses would be much less than having to drive to IL, KY or anywhere else other than MN or WI. If one is worried about expenses, look for ways in which you can cut costs. For example, share cabins, food costs, maybe not run your boat at WOT everywhere. Definitely places where if one takes notice, cutting costs can happen, imho. |
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| Steve,
"FLW dropped the TV and the Circuits for Redfish and Kingfish this year, and put a ton of money in collegiate bass".
"Major sponsors pulled out and the PWT is gone"
That is exactly my point about being too regional and sponsors. The FLW dropped them because they were too regional and there weren't enough people interested, one would think the same of only a two state only circuit and sponsors.
And with everything going on at PWT-Infishermen and the vehicles they have to promote, they loose major sponsors and their done after all them years. One would think then a tourney is going to need major sponsors to survive.
I would think "major" is large corporations, only because they have the money. I guess any of the large boat and motor companies might be considered major in the fishing industry, followed by a few electronic's companies. Larger parent companies like Pure Fishing I don;t even think would count. Outside of that, the others would have to be non -fishing corporations, Pepsi, Sears, GM, General Mills, WalMart, etc.
Again, these are just thoughts on why another circuit that pretty much has the same format as the others during these times is just going to dilute them all. The big one by Simply Fishing didn't work, the Best of the Best started out as a big money, but had to change. Maybe it will be the strong survive and in a few years they ones still around are stronger then ever.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'That is exactly my point about being too regional and sponsors'
That's not why those sponsors pulled out.
On one hand you insist TV and Magazine are critical, on the other you say they are a liability.
Redfish and Kingfish were not dropped because they were too regional.
Who said this new trail is going to have the same format as what's out there?
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Location: Rhinelander. | I just cannot see a pro am thing as a good thing. When I fish musky tournaments I fish with a partner I consider an equal and I am not out there fishing a tournament to be a teacher. I do that as a guide,seminar speaker and in articles. The amount of money generated by 150 pros introducing am. to a product is peanuts. They reac way more with one print ad inany fishing catalog. As far as cutting expenses........those things we allready do.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Oddly enough, the major Pro Walleye Circuits are Pro/Am, as are Bass. |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | If I recall right, I don't think a pro/am format has ever been tried on any level of musky tournaments, so saying you don't think it would work, doesn't mean it won't. I think if one sits down and weighs the good things of a pro/am format versus a team deal, I think their would be more good than negative out of a pro/am format.
If I recall hearing right, their was a lot of controversy back in the days when walleye events turned to pro/am events. Now look at it, all major bass and walleye events are pro/am format.
The exposure of those co-anglers to product is definitely something worthwhile. It maybe only a 150 co-anglers, but the word a mouth can be much greater. I know first hand that major walleye events wouldn't have some of the sponsors they do if events like the PWT, BASS, and FLW were not pro/am events.
Edited by Merckid 12/14/2008 5:09 PM
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| I don't think you can have a pro/am because there really are not any pros at this point... |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ben,
That's a comment one hears about the Walleye world as well regarding a large portion of any full field in any FLW Walleye Tour event. AIM might help correct that perception some, and as the FLW progresses Walleye events they may as well.
I'm attending the National Professional Anglers Association (www.npaa.net) meeting this early January, and will be joining and once again pushing for a Muskie division. That almost happened a few years ago.
As to your comment, one thing is certain; if no one creates additional opportunity, there won't be. |
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| OK Ben, call it a Boater/nonboater format.
All the professional fisihng tournament series are all Pro/AM, Boater/NonBoater formats. Only team formats in the musky world. Nobody has ever tried a musky Boater/nonboater format, so how would one know it wouldn't work? When the PWT first was a rumor, and the Pro/AM concept came to light, it was also said that wouldn't work. Well, it did work, and that format has worked ever since. Sure the PWT is gone, due to a loss of sponsors, not the formt. AIM is coming on this year, with a Pro/AM format. Anyone thinks that there is no strategy, or teamwork in Walleye and Bass tourneys, has either never fished in them, or done well in them. The notion that you must have the same two guys working together in the same boat, tourney after tourney, is hogwash. I've been on both sides in walleye Pro/ams, and I can tell you this. As a Boater, I've fished with some Ams that were better anglers than the Pro's I fished with when I was an Am. My Am's all worked extremely hard with me to get the best fisnish we could.
Look, if you musky tourney guys are like any other tourney anglers, you have confidence, you have a big ego, you have the desire to compete, and you figure you can win just about any given tourney, no matter the format. Just like the walleye Pro's I know, and just like the Bass guys Slamr watches on TV.(Believe or not, that is not a knock on you, Slamr)
All I am saying is that if you start another tourney circuit with the same format, what is going to differntiate it from the other established series? Location isn't going to be the answer, either. It's going to need something.
I think a Pro/AM would work for a couple reasons. And I don't think sponsors are one of them. At least not within the industry, as has been suggested. Opportunity for bigger fields. Say the PMTT avareages 100 boats. That is potentially 200 Pro's to fish a Pro/AM. Now, we know that not all 200 are not going to fish the tourney, but maybe 125 will. As for expenses, there will be an extra entry fee and fuel. You'll still have partners to sahre some expenses with. You can partner up with the ams to share travel expenses. Payouts can be better, too. You're not sharing 50/50 with a boat partner. You can have teams and share info with each other, and maybe share a protion of the winnings, too. There will most likely be a waiting list for the AMs for any given tourney, anxious for the chance to get in the boat with a couple of top musky sticks, to learn, yes. And help them both get as good a finish as they possibly can.
As for attracting sponsors? As I have been saying all along. Don't look to get your sponsors from within the industry. Especially in the musky realm, it's just too small a pie. Too few companies are large enough to come up with the kind of money it takes to be a major sponsor of a tour. Start thinking, and looking outside the box. You want a set fo decent sponsors. Work for them. Work on selling yourself. Show them what you can do for them to make it a good value for them to invest in you. They are not going to come looking for you to hand out money. You are going to have to find them. They are out there.
Edited by Shep 12/15/2008 9:28 AM
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Location: Wausau, Wisconsin | Is anyone else getting dizzy from this????? Man oh man. Is it possible for a new circuit to come and be successful? Yes, I believe so, but without the expense of many other tournaments. The musky tournament angler pool is only so large. I do hope that one of the many circuits can set themselves apart as the premier circuit. I just don't see a musky tournament circuit being a viable "profession" like walleyes and bass anytime soon. I'm not talking about an individual example like Mark and Clay, but one where 15 - 30% of the field have an opportunity to at least go part time at their job for a period of time and be successful. I'm glad to see growth in the sport, but it will certainly take some time. I hope all circuits are successful this year as are its anglers. It's good for the sport and gives us all something to look forward too. I've very much enjoyed competeing over the years. Good days and bad. |
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| people keep talking about taking muskie fishing to the next level,,,I think it should be noted that 'How many musky shows have we lost" in the last few years,,The stevens point show,,,the Minn/Chi extreme shows,,The Lacrosse show,,and I think the Pittsburgh show,,, just a few years ago we had about five muskyboards that had a decent amount of traffic now were pretty much down to two,,,musky FISHING may be up but intrest in organized muskie events seems to be dwindling.
Edited by happy hooker 12/15/2008 9:59 AM
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Location: FORT ATKINSON | What would or who would decide if you were a pro or not. Some of the best anglers on the PMTT,WMT, and many of the other tournaments are not professional guides, but freinds that love to compete and travel with these tournaments. Alot of the teams that fish these tornaments don't have the sponsors or big boats and like the down to earth format of these tournaments. I would hate to see these tournaments become out of reach of the commom muskie angler that made them possibe in the first place. I think that muskies tournaments are a different breed of tournaments that bass and walleye tournaments. This is just my opinion and I have been knowen to be wrong. |
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| A lot of pro/am bass tournaments are not actual "team" tournaments. The "pros" are fishing against the "pros" and the "amatures" are fishing against the "amatures." Same with boater/non boater tournaments. You are not really helping eachother (I'm sure some do), but more importantly, you are not netting other peoples fish. I have heard from friends who fish tournaments as "amatures" and there are times where the "pro" will get mad at the other angler for catching more fish than he or she, then leave the spot. Then again I'm sure a pro/am musky tournament would be set up differently where both guys are on the same team, but isnt it hard enough to fill some team tournaments where you get to pick your own partner? I like fishing with new people, but with a good amount of money on the line I want to be fishing with one of my friends that I fish with often and am comfortable to be around. Not to mention I want to be in a hotel room with someone I know rather than alone or with someone I've never met before. Just thought I'd throw that in there...
Edited by Reelwise 12/15/2008 9:12 PM
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| New Circuit: Team Format
Tournaments: 4 planned , plus 1 in progress
More to come
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| I'd be curious how they pick the "Pros" as we have so many of them in our sport.
Mr Musky |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | For the most part, on any of the Professional Walleye trails, there isn't any picking, you just need two valid sponsors which can speak of ones integrity. But any of the walleye tournaments for the most part anyone can fish.
One circuit on the bass side of things is an exception; the Elite 50 series.The top 50 anglers who have been competing over the last few seasons who were chosen for that back a few years ago when the Elite series started. However, I believe every year the last five or ten spots change. The ones currently in the Elite 50 compete to stay at the level, if they don't have a good year, they are at risk of being bumped from the Elite series, that means they are only open to fish the open BASS events the following year. The top five in the open division then will get a chance to compete in the Elite series. Fishing at the level and being there from year to year is very tough, it's the ultimate place to be for any professional bass fisherman.
As for choosing pros on a musky format, highly doubt there would be enough to choose from that would be willing to fill a 100 boat field, that's why it's open to everyone.
The pro/am format is a unique one, one that I think would be great for a musky circuit, but until someone steps up and chooses to run one that way, it won't happen. The bass and walleye guys have been doing it for years and has worked great for 100's of tournaments now. Until the sport of musky tournament fishing gets to a bass or even walleye level, you probably won't see this pro/am format in musky tournaments. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It's going to be a team circuit, from what's been posted, right? |
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| You get "picked" to be a "Pro" by the following criteria.
1. You have the money to enter as a "Pro"
2. You have the boat and equipment to enter as a "Pro"
3. You have the desire to enter as a "Pro"
That's all it takes on the walleye side of things.
The PMTT stands for "Pro" Musky Tournet Trail. How many true Pro's fish it? Few. The majority are just like you and me. Meaning, we have day jobs, and are recreational anglers that enter a few tournaments each year. It's not the profession that makes one a Pro. |
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| I for 1 am looking forward to seeing what this new trail has to offer.
It would seem that me and many others are looking forward to the press release and then we will make a decision on what tournaments to fish and what not to fish.
One thing for certian is IF this new trail can do half of what it is beeing hyped up to do it will do major damage to the PMTT. Not that any one of us wants the PMTT to fail but it sure would be some thing if the PMTT reacted to it by trying to improve itself. That would be a long list of things they need to do but it could be done.
I personaly think the timming is good for this new trail. The numbers for the PMTT are way down. But I think that is out of angler fustration not the economy. Other events that I fished last year were not down nearly as much. As an angler that tries his best to promote himself so that he can get some type of sponsorship so he can fish more tournaments. Any help that I can get from the trail that I fish is a good thing.
What makes you a PRO? If you make your sole living in that industry. |
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Location: Otsego, MN | I would think a "Pro" would be someone who relies on the fishing industry for a living. Pretty hard to do in the muskie world, but I think there are a few out there that do. I have a neighbor who makes his living off walleye fishing and guideing for the last 5 years, he has been done pretty well for himself. He told me that with the economy the way it is now that it may get pretty tight this coming year. |
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Location: Rhinelander. | Guest you are right. If does anything at all help promote the anglers it will be a step up on other tournaments. Yea it will be interesting to see if all the hype is true.
Pfeiff |
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Posts: 507
| A press release from the new muskie anglers circuit is supposed to be published no later than Monday afternoon. Here's what we know for sure right now:
OutdoorsFIRST video crews will be providing coverage of all the new events, onsite and live several times throughout the day. No Muskie event has ever been presented to the public the way these will be, with video, images, live interviews and more offered on the official website and on MuskieFIRST. The onstage Master Of Ceremonies will run the final hour and a half of each day's activities in an extremely professional manner, offering Muskie entertainment for anyone tuning in on the web. The anglers will be the focus, lazer tight and up close and personal.
Competitive angling is about what each team plans for strategy, and how that strategy is executed throughout the event, plus the overall picture of what's CPR'd, how the fish were caught, and when. Those who wish to will be able to follow the fortunes of their favorite team through each event and actually watch and listen to the 'weigh in' live from many of the planned locations.
This is an 'immediate release' tournament trail, opening up opportunities not available using other formats.
Payouts will be excellent, and contingency dollars will be available from some manufacturers/promotional partners.
We will revive the MuskieFIRST Fantasy Angler as part of our coverage, offering some pretty nice prizes to the winner.
We expect a press release Monday afternoon, so watch for it then! |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Looking forward to the press release!
Edited by Merckid 12/19/2008 12:05 PM
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| Well I tried to ferret out some early info for you guys on MN events because I know everybodys dying to find out,,but the DNR tourney rep said only the ice fishing events are done,,she has over 300 permit applications on her desk to go through but said she would email me after xmas,, by then we'll already know |
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Location: Rhinelander. | At what time is this press conference to take place and where? |
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | There won't be a press conference. A press release will be released Monday. |
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