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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | People allow themselves to get blinded by ideaology. BR
Not really. It's been the law up here for a very long time, and has been reinforced by a recent vote. it's what the majority here wants. I think ideology and the concept of democracy (little d) might coincide (understatement of the century), but that's what it is. The people who voted for and against weren't 'blinded' by anything. Most who voted were property owners and folks who fish the little lakes up here often and know exactly what they want and do not want.
Obviously, those who wanted to troll were in the minority when it came time to vote, or didn't bother to vote.
I'd bet on didn't bother to vote, how's that for ideology? |
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Posts: 229
| When I quoted BR about people being blinded by ideology, I wasn't even talking about sucker fishing/trolling in northern WI... |
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| Wimuskyfisherman - 10/4/2013 1:41 PM
When I quoted BR about people being blinded by ideology, I wasn't even talking about sucker fishing/trolling in northern WI...
No doubt, just one example. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | BR was doing his best to counter my ideology ... he's sharp that way, but barbless-ben would rather drive a noisy outboard all over the northwoods than be a purist in that format. that is best if applied to trout and other quiet activities in his world. for muskies, he still enjoys pressing the "easy-button", hope this helps to clarify the underhanded jab he took at me with his post. he and i have since sorted it our in im's.
i promised to row if he visits for some fall trolling ... otherwise, he'll continue to comment on things in the northwoods from his perch in colorado. |
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| It wasn't a jab at all, just point out that the debate against trolling is "belief" based. You can't reason or compromise with someone based on "belief". As for the easy button, I am not sure any musky are easy. BR |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ---
So why not allow motor trolling with only 1 line per angler like we do in Mn?
As far as the argument of trolling catches to many big fish, well I've spent 100's of hours trolling and have gone home skunked. Trolling is no sure guarantee of catching fish of any species.
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People allow themselves to get blinded by ideaology. BR
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Quoted--People allow themselves to get blinded by ideaology. BR
'So true, so true and most never ever realize it...'
'When I quoted BR about people being blinded by ideology, I wasn't even talking about sucker fishing/trolling in northern WI...'
So you were just babbling off topic offering irrelevant observations for Ben to agree with?
Makes all sorts of sense.
'Belief' based? Seriously? If the current law, upheld by the last vote, is anything, it's based upon the opinions of the majority of the folks who bothered to show up and vote. Opinions are beliefs. Stating one's belief followed by 'in my opinion' is repeating the obvious. |
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Posts: 8866
| It's my belief that opening up trolling wouldn't harm the muskies one bit.
But this law is not necessarily about the safety of muskies. Some people will argue that it is, or even that it has anything to do with muskies at all. There are a lot of other fish swimming the waters of N WI, and a lot more reasons for the anti-trolling sentiment than the well being of the fish.
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| So Essox -- how would you like to go out to a 300 acre lake and see some guy out there trolling with 3 lines out. You could circle the entire lake in 10 minutes and then just keep driving around until you get a hit. In no way should trolling be allowed on most lakes in WI as they are just too small. I'm all for finding some compromise that would allow for a sucker to be dragged IF you are still casting, but if in order to do that you have to allow all types of trolling -- then no way. |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | esoxaddict - 10/4/2013 7:20 PM
It's my belief that opening up trolling wouldn't harm the muskies one bit.
But this law is not necessarily about the safety of muskies. Some people will argue that it is, or even that it has anything to do with muskies at all. There are a lot of other fish swimming the waters of N WI, and a lot more reasons for the anti-trolling sentiment than the well being of the fish.
I 100% agree that people don't want trolling based on factors other than harming the fishery. Question is, who cares? If the majority up there don't want it simply because the sky is blue, I'm not going to argue against it.
Folks in Wauwatosa just voted to have trains not sound horns at some crossings. I'm 100% sure its not because of safety, but who am I to tell them they're crazy not to listen to train horns? Will it prevent me from driving through there? Maybe, but I know what I'm getting into by driving through, I'm not going to stand at the crossings flipping off the engineers for not blaring their horns at 200 dBs.
What it comes down to is this. If you don't agree with the trolling regs up there, find water where you can do what you want. There's plenty of waters in Wi, Mn and Mich that allow trolling. Why is it that I'm sensing some people are arguing these regs just because the state is telling them they can't do something? How dare they? Same people who are trying to finagle a way around the regs.
Fishing is supposed to be fun, go find waters where you can enjoy your type of fun. |
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Posts: 667
Location: Roscoe IL | Gander Mt Guide - 9/19/2013 3:32 PM
Pretty simple really. If you want to avoid a ticket on lakes where trolling is prohibited, don't drag a sucker around while using a trolling motor. You know you're doing it, you know if you're in the "maybe I shouldn't be doing it" zone. Why ruin a trip up north by testing the DNR? Make things easier on yourself and troll where you can.
Duane Harpster the old warden who patrolled Vilas Co probably gave out more cites than any warden I've ever known. I watched him give out 3 in 15 minutes on Palmer. Boat to boat to boat. I asked hm how he did it so quick. ...."I pick a point on the lake in front of your boat. Cross that point with your trolling motor down while dragging a bobber, here I come." Had all three boats picked out before he even went to the first one.
For the first time ever in 18 years of muskie fishing, I was confronted by another muskie fisherman when using my bow mount with a sucker out over the weekend. I was also casting and this dude went off on me. I used to be a member to MI and at no time were we educated to the fact that using your bow mount was not leagle while sucker fishing. They showed me how to do it and it seems that everyone here in one way or the other. So what's the frikken law? I read the regs and can't seem to see where it says no TM with a sucker out... I use the bow mount TM to position the boat so I can set up my casting spots and to move allong at a very slow pace while working a breakline or shorline. This sure took the fun out of a trip we planned on for months, and freinds of mine who have never muskie fished before sure got a bad taste in their mouth on this sport because of the attitude and yelling from the other fishing boat. I felt terrible and they didn't want to stay out because of the un-relenting yelling from the other boat. Lines were strait down at all times. I know what trolling is, or at least I thought I did. I said screw it and used an oar for the remainder of the trip, but I'm considering Florida for fall trips going forward and not spending $ on bait, room & board and in the bars in the Wisconsin Northwoods again. |
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Location: oswego, il | I know people who fish up north, put suckers out and run the trolling motor. They don't believe they are trolling. Another friend told me he was not trolling but advancing his position. Bottom line its not clear to alot of people and the interpretation is grey. The vertical line argument is silly. A lead weight can change that interpretation. It should change. Suckers fishing is a business. The state should be smart about how to regulate it. |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The law is...no trolling in N WI unless the lake is classified as a trolling water. You cannot pull a sucker along while casting, even slowly. Don't do that and all is well.
The guy in the other boat was not conveying the message well. Jerks abound all over the world, don't blame the regs for his behavior.
There are fishing regs in place in Florida, too. read up before your trip or you'll end up in Alabama next year. |
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Posts: 667
Location: Roscoe IL | sworrall - 11/6/2013 10:07 AM
There are fishing regs in place in Florida, too. read up before your trip or you'll end up in Alabama next year.
Now that's funny.
I'm now better educated on this and will never use the TM again with a sucker out. |
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Location: oswego, il | I just spend my fall money elsewhere. To many I am sure that makes them happy. When a.warden tells you trolling motor on for any reason with a out is trolling, why would i drive 5-6 hours and have the wind change out of favor or too hard? |
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Posts: 5874
| ToddM - 11/6/2013 10:06 AM I know people who fish up north, put suckers out and run the trolling motor. They don't believe they are trolling. Another friend told me he was not trolling but advancing his position. Bottom line its not clear to alot of people and the interpretation is grey. The vertical line argument is silly. A lead weight can change that interpretation. It should change. Suckers fishing is a business. The state should be smart about how to regulate it. It doesn't matter what you or I think. it matters what the CW that you contact thinks. Some will write a citation, some won't. I've had suckers out, TM down, and casting, and have been passed by CW's that never gave me a second look. If you do it right, as in position fishing, you should not be cited. Maybe. Again, it depends on the CW you contact. TCritter. That guy was a complete moron. Sorry he wrecked the outing for you and your friends. The reg is written poorly, I agree. It won't stop me, when I decide to go fishing again. Doing it right, I'm certain I'd win in court, if cited.
Edited by Shep 11/6/2013 11:44 AM
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Todd, you can't avoid us forever.
The DNR has been trying to get the trolling laws up here changed for a few seasons now. Thanks to the CC, they haven't been able to. |
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Posts: 20281
Location: oswego, il | I will never avoid the northwoods, to beautiful, too many great places to fish and despite where I am from alot of friendly people. I just have to weigh my options when it comes to sucker fishing. |
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Location: Smith Creek | I'll start a collection to pay your fine if you get nabbed.
Or you could just fish Bayfield, Washburn or Price counties. Same small fish  |
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| The people of northern WI have spoken. They don't want you, me, or anyone else up there "bothering" them. Go somewhere else. And you'll find that the fishing is better somewhere else, too! WI needs to get its act together. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | That's dumb.
They want you up here, but they don't want you trolling. Been that way a very long time, did you just figure this out, Sparky?
Northern Wisconsin voted no. Several times.
I voted yes, by the way. I lost, as did the others who voted yes.
If you have to troll to be happy, head over to waters where it's legal. |
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Posts: 106
| Gander Mt Guide - 10/7/2013 10:25 AM
esoxaddict - 10/4/2013 7:20 PM
It's my belief that opening up trolling wouldn't harm the muskies one bit.
But this law is not necessarily about the safety of muskies. Some people will argue that it is, or even that it has anything to do with muskies at all. There are a lot of other fish swimming the waters of N WI, and a lot more reasons for the anti-trolling sentiment than the well being of the fish.
I 100% agree that people don't want trolling based on factors other than harming the fishery. Question is, who cares? If the majority up there don't want it simply because the sky is blue, I'm not going to argue against it.
Folks in Wauwatosa just voted to have trains not sound horns at some crossings. I'm 100% sure its not because of safety, but who am I to tell them they're crazy not to listen to train horns? Will it prevent me from driving through there? Maybe, but I know what I'm getting into by driving through, I'm not going to stand at the crossings flipping off the engineers for not blaring their horns at 200 dBs.
What it comes down to is this. If you don't agree with the trolling regs up there, find water where you can do what you want. There's plenty of waters in Wi, Mn and Mich that allow trolling. Why is it that I'm sensing some people are arguing these regs just because the state is telling them they can't do something? How dare they? Same people who are trying to finagle a way around the regs.
Fishing is supposed to be fun, go find waters where you can enjoy your type of fun.
I don't understand the argument that if it is what the people "up there" want it they should get their way.
Lakes are state property, someone that lives in Madison is just as much an owner of a Vilas Co. lake as someone who lives on the shore of that lake.
Or am I wrong ? |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Yes, actually you are. Look up the Wisconsin Conservation Congress. Our Governor has made some changes, but what folks in the majority vote for in fish and game management in the area in which they vote during the Spring hearings, they generally get, sometimes to the great detriment of the fishery, sometimes not. Norm, Mike and I used the system to acquire a 50" limit on Pelican. The minority wasn't very happy. That's politics... |
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Location: Roscoe IL | I got my butt chewed out because I was breaking the law. I can live with that and know better now. I'm sure if I was not breaking the law that the person fishing in the other boat would have been just fine with us being out there. Lesson learned and we move forward. |
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| ToothyCritter - 11/7/2013 7:41 AM I got my butt chewed out because I was breaking the law. I can live with that and know better now. I'm sure if I was not breaking the law that the person fishing in the other boat would have been just fine with us being out there. Lesson learned and we move forward. Maybe you were. You said they showed you how? What was their technique that was legal?
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Posts: 999
| If the DNR would just focus on allowing trolling motors to be used for livebait fishing on all waters of WI we wouldnt have this problem and im sure it would pass. Focus on the problem at hand rather then the bigger can of worms. |
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Location: Smith Creek | They already do. You can use the trolling motor to hover on a spot with live bait. |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | sworrall - 11/6/2013 7:24 PM
Yes, actually you are. Look up the Wisconsin Conservation Congress. Our Governor has made some changes, but what folks in the majority vote for in fish and game management in the area in which they vote during the Spring hearings, they generally get, sometimes to the great detriment of the fishery, sometimes not. Norm, Mike and I used the system to acquire a 50" limit on Pelican. The minority wasn't very happy. That's politics...
Steve, You don't need to be a resident of any specific county to vote in the hearings right? By which I mean, if guys from Madison are strongly for Trolling, they can vote on regs for Vilas by voting up there?
I can't remember the exact rules on that, but if it's true, nothing stopping folks from making a drive up and either voting or submitting a resolution to the WCC. |
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Posts: 667
Location: Roscoe IL | Shep - 11/7/2013 8:27 AM
ToothyCritter - 11/7/2013 7:41 AM I got my butt chewed out because I was breaking the law. I can live with that and know better now. I'm sure if I was not breaking the law that the person fishing in the other boat would have been just fine with us being out there. Lesson learned and we move forward. Maybe you were. You said they showed you how? What was their technique that was legal?
I suppose it was, for years we have been using the TM to position the boat. Members showed me how to make QS rigs, how to hold the fish, what to look for on the depthfinder. It's a great club, and I learn from eveeryone I fish with for the most part. This was so many years ago, so maybe the laws have changed since then. I'm not too old to learn and make adjustments though.. |
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Posts: 576
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Just drift with the wind with your suckers out and you will have no problems! I did it for years until the DNR allowed trolling in Price county. |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Mr Musky - 11/7/2013 9:57 AM
If the DNR would just focus on allowing trolling motors to be used for livebait fishing on all waters of WI we wouldnt have this problem and im sure it would pass. Focus on the problem at hand rather then the bigger can of worms.
If the law allows Muskie anglers to troll up here, walleye, crappie, and bass fishermen had better be allowed to as well, and trolling with an electric motor would have to be legalized. Trolling with ANY motor was roundly defeated while position fishing with an electric was approved.
Think about it. |
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