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Location: Eastern Ontario | BigC - 1/22/2021 1:01 PM
horsehunter - I've fished days with my Suick on on rod and a Rob Dey spinnerbait on another while my partner cycled through a bushel of baits some days we both catch fish somedays we are both skunked. I can't remember often being outfished by someone wasting time changing baits.
It's funny, I probably throw Rob's baits more then anything else and have not once caught a Muskie using brown, but black and red, well that's another story can't keep the hair on them.
We're lucky to have Sean Landsman back in Ottawa and he was asked this question just the other night at a MCI meeting. Even luckier someone's nice enough to take notes and post online. (not me ) But I can cut and paste those.
They see color, “rods in eye “detect movement and night vision. “Double Cones” see colors and detail in reds, orange and yellow. Single “cone cells” see blue and purple. Single “rod cells” help detect movement and contrast. Lateral line detects movement of prey.
Your lucky to have Sean back a real class act. Say hello to Hedrick for me.
I'm still using lures Rob made for me in the 90's The blacks have bleached out to a sort of grey, the browns tan, and not really sure what the purple has changed into but they continue to catch fish. Rob sent me a bunch of tied trailer hooks a while back so I have some ugly old baits with new trailers. I named my favourite Joe after a friend and when people ask why I tell them Joe don't have no hair left either.
Edited by horsehunter 1/23/2021 7:57 AM
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Posts: 32924
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I fish open water big crappies a lot, gills too. Some of the best slab (12 to 15 or bigger) fishing we do is trolling Vexan Wasps, Flickershads or Lateral Line Lures Benders at 1.7 to 3. We slam them trolling from small wisco lakes to Vermilion. Never tried trolling faster, but this discussion has me looking to.
When we are casting a jig and plastics in the cover (we don't use live bait in the open water season)I fish them faster than I do walleyes. Contrast and knowing what they can see on any given day is a huge factor, no less than toothy critters, and I'd bet better than 75% of the strikes are triggered by fairly rapid movement. We catch more really big crappies in the open water than under the ice because we can trigger more strikes, and because they almost never stop swimming when active and we can stay with them. That's why I bought a 'Bird 360. The bait has to contrast so they can see it or no dice.
Next time I have the right conditions I'll record a video on the Aqua-Vi HD7i as the light goes down in the evening with a white, black, and multi-color jig. I should be able to get the lure up far enough in the water column so it's easy to see the difference between a fish looking up, straight at, or down at the lure. Probably will need to do one in open water and one in weeds so differing backgrounds can be presented.
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Posts: 246
| I made a crankbait years ago and have caught a bunch of fish on it trolling the same lake. The fun part is, I've repainted it different colors and schemes and it still catches. This made me a believer that color only matters occasionally and most of the time something else got the fish fired up.
Sidenote: It's a great lure, tracks at 6mph and survived being snagged under water for 16 months before a draw down made it accessible. I changed the split rings, hooks and fished it that day. Lol. |
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Posts: 20248
Location: oswego, il | I can say that my Muskie Fishing is mostly done casting and trolling in the top 10ft of the water column in a variety of water conditions. |
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Posts: 718
| Again: IMO if you have decided that it doesn't matter you simply haven't put enough time into the art of figuring out which color may be better in a given situation. Substitute the words "stimulation" or "visibility" into this discussion and then re-read it and see if you can see a different slant on things. Fish respond to different levels of visibility and stimulation in a variety of ways depending on the situation and conditions. Not trying to insult anyone here but if your not looking at this as a significant variable with an open mind you will catch LESS fish no question. Of all the top anglers that I have been around and especially the best guides who's living depends on consistent success NONE rule out color as a factor and a variable that changes from hour to hour, day to day and lake to lake. If you want to be better at catching fish instead of just doing what works some of the time you need to open up your mind and expand your knowledge.
Again not trying to insult...trying to make you BETTER.
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Posts: 2373
Location: Chisholm, MN | Well, I’m just not sure it matters as much as people think. And I don’t think there’s a good way to prove that it does matter since the sample sizes are so small for muskies. Maybe black vs white, or something very natural makes the difference. If it does make a difference, how can I tell when my sample consists of contacting maybe 2-10 fish a day 3 days a week? |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Most start with the lure that caught the last fish then take off a lure that they know works and cycle through a bunch of untried lures looking for magic. I guess my opinion has been formed because when I started I didn't have a lot of lures available to me and I was able to catch fish on the lures I had under many various conditions and locations. I guy I knew would troll every evening all season long only ever using a 8 inch jailbird Believer he caught as many fish as most. Over the years I accumulated hundreds of lures ( telling myself most came off raffle tables) and with the exception of the 6 lures I use on the Larry I'm still using the lures i started with and really don't catch any more than when everything fit in a styrofoam minnow bucket. I guess if I was selling lures i would tell people they need 19 colours in 4 different sizes.
Look at your lures and tell me if you used each for an hour could you get all of them wet this year. You only need so many hammers. |
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Posts: 1267
Location: Walker, MN | If it ain't chartreuse, there ain't no use.
Edited by Masqui-ninja 1/24/2021 11:04 AM
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Location: oswego, il | I think it's a combination of what Bob and Steve are saying. I don't notice color being a factor most of the time. I think we mostly make good ball park decisions on color to begin with. On LSC your feedback can be had in minutes, seen it many times. What's interesting is that it has changed for me on like days, I could never replicate the hardhead bite again in subsequent years. Last year baits with yellow were better. In those cases action depth and speed were ultra critical but once that's dialed in you can get color feedback if enough fish eat. |
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Location: Chisholm, MN | Masqui-ninja - 1/24/2021 10:49 AM
If it ain't chartreuse, there ain't no use.
I know you can’t go wrong with this color! |
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Posts: 8824
| Color matters, just not all of the time and certainly not more than lure selection and presentation. Anybody who says it doesn't matter at all hasn't been fishing long enough. Even the guys who swear it makes no difference probably have a different set of lures for clear vs. stained vs. muddy water and switch colors based on light conditions. |
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Posts: 2059
| It matters so much give me any condition Muskie fishing and tell me the color I’m NOT supposed to fish? I gladly fish it all day, and I’ll catch muskies...what’s even better are those that think they need custom colors- lol!
Edited by IAJustin 1/24/2021 4:06 PM
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | And I actually believe that even after 52 years muskie fishing and 24 of those guiding, I still have a lot to learn.
Can't think of any other way to say that nicely. |
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Posts: 718
| I think what Steve is trying to say (nicely) is some of us (at least I am) feel like we are wasting our time here on this subject. That said if you truly feel that Muskies are completely unlike Bass, pan-fish, walleyes, trout, salmon and other freshwater game-fish in their abilities to differentiate and show color preference....only because you have not figured out that it matters and refuse to accept and modify your approach to capitalize I feel sorry for you and your potential advancement as an angler.
I mean do you really walk into the tackle shop to lure shop and just pick any color completely at random hoping that it will work. Hope is not a very good plan. And if you tell me black (or any other color) always works for you so that's why you use it you are saying color does matter based on your results.
Back to my long winters nap.
Edited by bturg 1/24/2021 10:37 PM
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I guess after 46 years fishing the same lake I'm not going to do much advancing and my body is telling me it's time to wind down . I sold my Larry boat so any big water trolling will be done in Hoser or Billy's boat. I will continue to fish the local lake in 2 or 3 hour evening sessions and anyone wanting to get in the back had better not bring more than 2 rods and 6 lures.
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| horsehunter - 1/25/2021 7:35 AM
I guess after 46 years fishing the same lake I'm not going to do much advancing and my body is telling me it's time to wind down . I sold my Larry boat so any big water trolling will be done in Hoser or Billy's boat. I will continue to fish the local lake in 2 or 3 hour evening sessions and anyone wanting to get in the back had better not bring more than 2 rods and 6 lures.
Did you buy the canoe you discussed early in the season? |
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Posts: 580
Location: deephaven mn | Lemon Head.... white bait Chartreuse head.it works. I think Chartreuse appears white in the water.
Not much contrast hear....but the combo works.....is it for the fish or the fisherman?
I got bit on it so i throw it again and again |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Ya got a great deal used weighs 35 pounds took the seats out and put one more centered to use with a Kayak paddle. Still want to try a fishing Kayak but the weight scares me for where I want to take it. Son in law is leaving one of his boats here for me to fish the lake. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | kap - 1/25/2021 8:52 AM
Lemon Head.... white bait Chartreuse head.it works. I think Chartreuse appears white in the water.
Not much contrast hear....but the combo works.....is it for the fish or the fisherman?
I got bit on it so i throw it again and again
Years ago I spent time under water while while baits were cast over me ( the hooks were removed and replaced with like weight bell sinkers I'm crazy not stupid ). This was done in both a pool and the local lake. To me Chartreuse appeared silvery. |
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Posts: 358
| if fish can see, then color has to matter some of the time. Since light travels fastest if a particular color can get a fishes attention (positively) faster then you may likely have a better opportunity at attracting (or detracting) that fish. seems fairly straight forward to me.
that being said im not a huge color guy out side of dark and light lures, although i fiddle with paint colors a lot lol. Still think contrast / flash is the biggest thing in lure color. |
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| horsehunter - 1/25/2021 7:58 AM
Ya got a great deal used weighs 35 pounds took the seats out and put one more centered to use with a Kayak paddle. Still want to try a fishing Kayak but the weight scares me for where I want to take it. Son in law is leaving one of his boats here for me to fish the lake.
Wow, that is super light. Friend has a kevlar kayak that is extremely light but not a fishing kayak. He got it used and still paid something close to 2 grand. I have fishing kayak, and while heavy at 62 pounds, I bought a wheel kit designed for portaging and makes it pretty easy to move as long as terrain is not too rough. Load the paddle, rod, jacket, water bottle once the wheels are attached and away you go. |
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Posts: 1373
| While I've known for quite a while, that color does have a varying effect (some time more, some times less), I have thought for a while, that one could do just as well with a monochrome lure arsenal. Pick a lure type, and if you have a white one, a black one, and a contrasting white and black one, that would be all that you need. Some of this is motivated by the fact that early on, I foresaw that I would get out of control buying a million baits. Now since I like pretty colors and appreciate life like baits, I hold more to a pattern of having a light, a dark, and a light/dark contrasting version of most baits that I use. I feel that my muskie fishing sample size is just too small to really put any kind of valid data together, to teach me anything meaningful, as there are just too many variables and not enough data to narrow it down. While still anecdotal, I do have a few examples that have carried more weight in my mind. I seem to have an inordinate amount of success compared to other colors, on a couple of lakes. On Green Bay, for some reason, I do better if a lure has purple in it. Regardless of species. Walleye, trout, small mouth, pike, everything seems to like purple. On Leech, I experience the same phenomena with chartreuse/green. Also, I took a pike fishing trip up to northern Manitoba, about 25 years ago, and everything ate white. Literally, nothing else worked. It didn't matter what kind of bait you threw, as long as it was white, it would get hammered. So, basically, I know nothing. |
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Posts: 20248
Location: oswego, il | Steve I am pretty sure you could land on a planet millions of light years away with a rod reel, creature and catch whatever inhabits the water.
TC that's my point of this discussion. I have no idea why at times color really matters. |
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Posts: 404
Location: Selkirk, Manitoba | Fish of all species can be extremely discriminating or can be opportunistic. When discriminating you better be throwing what they want if you want to catch one, whereas when they are opportunistic pretty much everything works. I don't think muskies are unique in this sense and so also follow this pattern, and if given a choice between two colours they will probably choose one over another in a statistically significant way given that everything else about the lures is identical. In real world practice when you are prospecting for fish I would tend towards the Windels theory of the more casts you make the more muskies you'll boat, so changing lures is counterproductive to this and one should go with a confidence lure for that waterbody and probably not concern oneself with changing colours too much.
If you are looking to catch a specific fish or targeting a specific size of fish then this is where the lure changing, type of lure, size and colour come into play in my opinion - there is no question that muskies are rejecting some lures outright and are only triggered to follow or strike if a lure triggers those instincts, and colour may in some instances be that deciding factor.
In terms of anecdotes, I have a couple of spots that I know hold numerous muskies, so I spend a lot more time messing around in those spots than one would do just prospecting or even if I felt there was just one fish there, and what I've learned has really accelerated the learning curve on these fish. I would say it is equivalent to hunting whitetail bucks, these fish have individual personalities: some are fearless at boat, some are not; some will follow the same lures, some follow one time on a new lure they haven't seen, some look hot but don't do anything, some are curious and stick around and do the lip curl tasting thing they do. A big factor though is they do get conditioned to lures and fatiqued by anglers, aware of your boat and what it means, etc, just like a whitetail buck will if you keep going in the woods after him. The point being is that what works for one fish does not always work for all and experimenting does pay dividends in particular situations.
What I do feel is good data on colour is there are lots of pike where I fish and if the pike like the colour (or type of lure) being thrown, then I feel I have a good shot at the muskies too and have confidence in the lure type or colour.
FYI Canadian "u" in colour
Edited by Angling Oracle 1/26/2021 12:36 PM
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Posts: 35
| I've read through this so many times it drove me nuts. Does color matter with live bait? Where are all the natural rock bass patterns haha? |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Shroomskie - 1/30/2021 1:46 PM
I've read through this so many times it drove me nuts. Does color matter with live bait? Where are all the natural rock bass patterns haha?
Actually, yes. Most of the live bait I use either has a jig head or some sort of teaser attached. haha... ? There is no paint that is the same fish coloration.
Bottom line is contrast.
If you don't know what happens to color (light) underwater and you haven't thought about how muskies see, what they can actually see, and what the background is, it's all fairy dust. |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Yes, Steve. Its fairy dust!
Which lure will be the most visible with highest contrast at a depth of 5' to 100'?
Its a trick color created by man.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/stop-this-absurd-w...
https://youtu.be/S9dqJRyk0YM
Have fun!
Al
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Location: Perryville, MO | Al, this is gonna cost me a bunch of money. I'm going to the paint shop now to purchase some "minus green" and all my black baits are getting a new finish. Oh, wait. Steve, (knowing the color underneath is going to matter) should I repaint my black or white baits? Oh, crap I'm already confused again!
Edited by hawkeye9 2/2/2021 10:03 AM
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Posts: 35
| That's just too much thinking. I like to go cast. I did nab my PB overall sizewise on a little gold hook with a crappie minnow. What if that hook was red instead?! I'll never get over it! JK Steve, this is a just a past time for me more than a hobby these days. Discussions can be fun, but I still wonder how there are no Rock Bass colored lures? |
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Posts: 51
| There's no doubt in my mind that color does matter. Its not that I think the fish, muskies in particular, have a preference for any color combination, but they will hit what they can see best. That being said, I dont believe we know nearly enough to make any kind of predictions on what colors will work on any given day...
There are alot of useful posts in this thread analysing musky behavior and sight capacity. On the flip side, there's not a whole lot analysis required to figure out that human beings are notorious for finding patterns where there isnt one. We're very bad a this, we dont like random so we very often make conclusions on lacking sample size.
I think the best approach when it comes to color depends on how many lines you can get in the water on a particular outing. I most often fish alone and can only get one line in the water at any given time. So with that in mind, I rely alot on black or white, these 2 options are most likely to cover all bases reasonably well.
If on the other hand you're trolling 6 lines, this enables you to test different sets more thoroughly without giving up much when it comes to switching lures. Finding the right combo under these circumstances is much more likely.
Long story short, doest it matter? I believe it does. Can you find the right color on any given day? Depends... |
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