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| The only way that gear ratios make a difference exclusively is when you're comparing different models of the same exact reel, with the same diameter gears, the same diameter spool, the same handle and the same amount of line. Take the Revo Toro series for example. Throw a double 10 with the 6.2:1, the 5.4:1 and the 4.2:1 The difference in effort required to reel that lure is certainly noticeable. Use those same reels for a pull/pause retrieve where you have to reel up slack line. Try each with a WTD lure, and try to get the cadence right. THEN tell me gear ratios don't matter. |
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| The ipt is all different for each model. |
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Location: Aurora | jaultman - 3/12/2015 10:04 PM
Still waiting for an explanation for how gear ratio changes work input WHEN IPT IS THE SAME.
It doesn't until you add the resistance of a bait.
Since most folks tie bait to the end of the line, reel manufacturers offer different gear ratios for the same reel with the same spool size and market & label them as "power gear" or "high speed" models.
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| cave run legend - 3/12/2015 10:44 PM
The ipt is all different for each model.
It would have to be, all other things being equal.
That said, I don't see why musky reels have such narrow spools. Most of the line capacity is backing that never sees the light of day. 60 -70 yards of braid would be all you would need. One could easily thumb the spool if it were larger. I see no reason why the levelwind couldn't be set 1/2" higher without major modifications in design. That alone would increase your IPT without changing the design of the reel much. If you could tuck the reel in closer to the rod you'd eliminate the need to modify the rod guides...
I'm sure the reel manufacturers and rod manufacturers know a **** lot more than I do, but it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to make a comfortable lightweight reel that fits on a musky rod that is better than what's out there now without weighing 16 oz and being impossible to palm. |
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| Sidejack - 3/12/2015 11:59 PM
jaultman - 3/12/2015 10:04 PM
Still waiting for an explanation for how gear ratio changes work input WHEN IPT IS THE SAME.
It doesn't until you add the resistance of a bait.
Since most folks tie bait to the end of the line, reel manufacturers offer different gear ratios for the same reel with the same spool size and market & label them as "power gear" or "high speed" models.
Side jack it seems you are not following what is being said. Of corse if everything the same but change gear ratio IPT will change. I gave an example in my last post with the tranx models showing a HG can have the same retrieve as a PG. The people who can understand my last example understand the relationship gear ratio and spool dia. Once you have a grasp of that relationship you will know why when it is said "if you know the IPT gear ratio doesn't matter". Looking back I probably should have chose better wording like
"Once IPT is know the concern from knowing gear ratio becomes less important"
Reason for a lessened concern is because IPT is a product of gear ratio and spool dia. So IPT represents what the gears do to the spool and what the spool does to the line.
Don't worry the gears are represented but in a different number.
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Location: varies | It is fair to say you will get the same result using a tranx pg and a revo HS but with less effort using the tranx pg. |
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| rodbender - 3/13/2015 6:49 AM
It is fair to say you will get the same result using a tranx pg and a revo HS but with less effort using the tranx pg.
If (and only if) the Tranx has a longer handle it will take less driving force. The actual work is the same, though, unless it's more efficient. |
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| Sidejack - 3/12/2015 10:59 PM
jaultman - 3/12/2015 10:04 PM
Still waiting for an explanation for how gear ratio changes work input WHEN IPT IS THE SAME.
It doesn't until you add the resistance of a bait.
Since most folks tie bait to the end of the line, reel manufacturers offer different gear ratios for the same reel with the same spool size and market & label them as "power gear" or "high speed" models.
You don't have a clue what you're saying. You obviously haven't read the initial question. Or, you have, and just totally don't understand the concept.
I could explain it another way, but being that you haven't followed along the many examples and many proofs so far, it wouldn't do any good.
I shouldn't care that people spew nonsense, but the fact is that it affects other people's choices, and also influences others' understanding of these concepts. |
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Location: varies | Then why offer different gearing? Just for IPT gain? The winch is named for its slow speed and not cranking ease? |
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Location: Contrarian Island | so what is the best reel for double 10s? bwwwwahahhhahhaahaaha. |
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| rodbender - 3/13/2015 7:18 AM
Then why offer different gearing? Just for IPT gain?
Exactly.
rodbender - 3/13/2015 7:18 AM
The winch is named for its slow speed and not cranking ease?
If you want to burn a double cowgirl at exactly 5 mph with all three Revo Toro size 60 reels, all spooled the same and each with the same handle:
- The winch will require the most RPM of the handle, but less driving force.
- The 5.4:1 will require more driving force than the winch, but less RPM of the handle than the winch.
- The 6.4:1 will require the least RPM of the handle, but the most driving force.
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| jaultman - 3/13/2015 7:40 AM
rodbender - 3/13/2015 7:18 AM
Then why offer different gearing? Just for IPT gain?
Exactly.
rodbender - 3/13/2015 7:18 AM
The winch is named for its slow speed and not cranking ease?
If you want to burn a double cowgirl at exactly 5 mph with all three Revo Toro size 60 reels, all spooled the same and each with the same handle:
- The winch will require the most RPM of the handle, but less driving force.
- The 5.4:1 will require more driving force than the winch, but less RPM of the handle than the winch.
- The 6.4:1 will require the least RPM of the handle, but the most driving force.
60 some posts and finally we have something that sums it up. I think "work" and "force" are being used incorrectly througout this discussion, but those college courses are too long ago.
The NACL power handle is actually longer than a TranX handle. The best add-on out there for a TranX HG. Reel balances better and keeps from twisting with the NACL handle being so much lighter than the standard handle. |
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| I shouldn't care that people spew nonsense, but the fact is that it affects other people's choices.
i should probably check the gear ratio on my potato peeler. |
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Location: Hayward, WI | rodbender - 3/13/2015 7:18 AM
Then why offer different gearing? Just for IPT gain? The winch is named for its slow speed and not cranking ease?
CORRECT! If you were a reel manufacturer, would you rather have 3 different sets of reel bodies and 3 sets of spool diameters, or would you rather change the IPT of a reel by having everything else be the same, but only having 3 different sets of gears?
All else being equal, the gear ratio will change IPT. But, the work required boils down to IPT.
Efficiency and stuff might have something to do with it, but that's harder to prove or measure. Gear size might even have something to do with it, but then again, you could have two reels with 5.4 gears, but they are different size. If there is a difference between those two reels, it would have to do with gear size, not gear ratio.
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| M Winther - 3/13/2015 7:53 AM
I shouldn't care that people spew nonsense, but the fact is that it affects other people's choices. i should probably check the gear ratio on my potato peeler.
What's with you and potatoes? |
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| NickD - 3/13/2015 7:52 AM
60 some posts and finally we have something that sums it up. I think "work" and "force" are being used incorrectly througout this discussion, but those college courses are too long ago.
Actually the original poster answered his own questions, but wanted clarification. Two posts later, he had his clarification. Then a bunch of nonsense came into play. |
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Location: Aurora | jaultman - 3/13/2015 7:12 AM
I could explain it another way, but being that you haven't followed along the many examples and many proofs so far, it wouldn't do any good.
I shouldn't care that people spew nonsense, but the fact is that it affects other people's choices, and also influences others' understanding of these concepts.
We've all talked ourselves into a corner before but there's no sense in getting whipped up about it.
anzomik, curleytail, jaultman, if you guys didn't contradict yourselves or offer up incorrect info (see below quotes) so often you'd probably get more buy-in:
"Gear ratio does nothing to change force.."
"The Tranx handle is longer than the NACL handle.."
"..gear ratio has no effect on ease of retrieve. None what so ever. "
"No one is trying to argue that gear ratio is irrelevant altogether. But with regard to the original question, it doesn't matter."
Even the Tranx HG partly spooled & PG fully spooled example is flawed in that after the initially turn of each handle, the HG will begin building more line on it's spool, changing the IPT thus the HG will slowly become harder to crank.
Talk about nonsense.. sheesh |
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Location: Minnesota | Never thought it would go this long just buy the Tranx and be happy. |
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| Sidejack - 3/13/2015 8:53 AM
jaultman - 3/13/2015 7:12 AM
I could explain it another way, but being that you haven't followed along the many examples and many proofs so far, it wouldn't do any good.
I shouldn't care that people spew nonsense, but the fact is that it affects other people's choices, and also influences others' understanding of these concepts.
We've all talked ourselves into a corner before but there's no sense in getting whipped up about it.
anzomik, curleytail, jaultman, if you guys didn't contradict yourselves or offer up incorrect info (see below quotes ) so often you'd probably get more buy-in:
"Gear ratio does nothing to change force.."
"The Tranx handle is longer than the NACL handle.."
"..gear ratio has no effect on ease of retrieve. None what so ever. "
"No one is trying to argue that gear ratio is irrelevant altogether. But with regard to the original question, it doesn't matter."
Even the Tranx HG partly spooled & PG fully spooled example is flawed in that after the initially turn of each handle, the HG will begin building more line on it's spool, changing the IPT thus the HG will slowly become harder to crank.
Talk about nonsense.. sheesh
It's easy to take partial quotes out of context to misrepresent someone's case. No self-contradiction took place there, and it was clear to see if you read fully.
Maybe someone mistook the handle lengths of those reels, I must have missed it. Good catch though!!!...
Are you a politician? |
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Location: Hayward, WI | Sidejack - 3/13/2015 8:53 AM
jaultman - 3/13/2015 7:12 AM
I could explain it another way, but being that you haven't followed along the many examples and many proofs so far, it wouldn't do any good.
I shouldn't care that people spew nonsense, but the fact is that it affects other people's choices, and also influences others' understanding of these concepts.
We've all talked ourselves into a corner before but there's no sense in getting whipped up about it.
anzomik, curleytail, jaultman, if you guys didn't contradict yourselves or offer up incorrect info (see below quotes ) so often you'd probably get more buy-in:
"Gear ratio does nothing to change force.."
"The Tranx handle is longer than the NACL handle.."
"..gear ratio has no effect on ease of retrieve. None what so ever. "
"No one is trying to argue that gear ratio is irrelevant altogether. But with regard to the original question, it doesn't matter."
Even the Tranx HG partly spooled & PG fully spooled example is flawed in that after the initially turn of each handle, the HG will begin building more line on it's spool, changing the IPT thus the HG will slowly become harder to crank.
Talk about nonsense.. sheesh
The problem is taking those quotes out of context makes them sound incorrect, but there's no sense in getting whipped up about it. 
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Location: varies | My whole point to the inquiry was to get the most speed with the least force, work, etc... sorry, didn't mean to kick the Hornets nest. I believe the tranx pg is the best choice for this combination. (Although I may be wrong).
please continue with the debate. I'm still waiting for ice out. Thanks to all. |
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| Buy them both and try them out in the "real world" because apparently that's the only way to know how they might perform.
Also, be sure to attach "a bait" to the end of your fishing line while you are testing the reels. I was recently informed that most fishermen do this and it coincidentally, or maybe circumstantially, changes how hard it is to reel. Who knew that it would be harder to reel in a bait than just plain, practically weightless and frictionless fishing line? |
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| this thread is excellent reading material. |
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| rodbender - 3/13/2015 9:35 AM
My whole point to the inquiry was to get the most speed with the least force, work, etc...
If you want speed to pull a certain bait, the word you're looking for is 'power'. Power comes from... you. Not the reel.
The makeup of the reel determines what it feels like to expend that power. |
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| Sidejack it is very easy to say we are contradicting ourself when its plain to see you do not understand the topic being discussed. Rather than trying to understand the topic and why what we are saying is correct and how it pertains to the discussion you will deflect or cherry pick the words from a quote to present them to be wrong. You may think your correct by doing this but it come across as foolish.
Also my "flawed" tranx example and your way of correcting it by saying the hg will pick up line making it harder to reel, you never mentioned that the PG will also be picking up line also making it harder to reel. I understand it will not be at the same rate of growth to the diameter. The PG will increase its dia at a rate of 2/3 of that of the HG (I am sure you figured all the math out already with how many wraps wide the spool is and how the doesnt lay perfectly level with line depending on how the line nests to itself), so you got me. I mis lead the public by not supplieing the full information.
Here is the corrected example Side Jack please tell the world how this example is not correct.
Ok everyone think of this and answer this question.
Two reels tranx HG and tranx pg.
The HG is partly spooled to bring in 30 IPT
The PG is fully spooled bringing in 30 IPT.
Holding the rod (same rod for both reels) in a vise perfectly level 60" off the ground with a 5# weight off the end of the line. Weight sitting on the floor, which reel is harder to crank the handle 1 revolution. This elimates the spool dia change, or human error of possiblly holding rods not pointing the bait causeing friction rubbing on eyelets or water in the line... any other BS that can be used to say the experiment is flawed.
By the way every example spool dia changes I said that from the beginning
Which reel is easier to crank?
Answer they are the same. The lower gear ratio in this example did not make a difference because the spool dia was small enough to slow the IPT of the HG. That why I said gear ratio doesn't matter In this discussion. |
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| anzomcik, your example is flawed because the HG setup moved into a new gravity field so the weight changed. |
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| Crap I forgot about those gravity fields... Oh and the handles of both reels were set at 12 noon. This is because the weight of the handle could have fatigued the person turning it and if they were set at different positions the end results would not match |
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Location: varies | jaultman - 3/13/2015 9:50 AM
rodbender - 3/13/2015 9:35 AM
My whole point to the inquiry was to get the most speed with the least force, work, etc...
If you want speed to pull a certain bait, the word you're looking for is 'power'. Power comes from... you. Not the reel.
The makeup of the reel determines what it feels like to expend that power.
I agree with that to a point. Look at a 500hp semi and a 500hp corvette. Both have the same power (angler) but the transmission (gearing) is vastly different. A semi can pull 40 tons (bait) with 500 hp and lower gearing with less stress on the motor (angler), while a corvette has no chance of moving 40 tons because the (gearing is different or higher). Would that motion not apply to a reels gearing ? |
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Location: Aurora | anzomcik - 3/13/2015 10:15 AM
Here is the corrected example Side Jack please tell the world how this example is not correct.
Ok everyone think of this and answer this question.
Two reels tranx HG and tranx pg.
The HG is partly spooled to bring in 30 IPT
The PG is fully spooled bringing in 30 IPT.
Holding the rod (same rod for both reels) in a vise perfectly level 60" off the ground with a 5# weight off the end of the line. Weight sitting on the floor, which reel is harder to crank the handle 1 revolution. This elimates the spool dia change, or human error of possiblly holding rods not pointing the bait causeing friction rubbing on eyelets or water in the line... any other BS that can be used to say the experiment is flawed.
By the way every example spool dia changes I said that from the beginning
Which reel is easier to crank?
Answer they are the same. The lower gear ratio in this example did not make a difference because the spool dia was small enough to slow the IPT of the HG. That why I said gear ratio doesn't matter In this discussion.
This one's wrong too because the gear ratio of the HG's spool causes it to travel more revolutions in one crank than the PG, thus requiring more effort.
More effort = harder to crank, regardless of whether the original poster is fishing for muskies or kettle bells in their basement.
P.S. All sarcasm aside, I love you guys and I love this thread!!!
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| rodbender - 3/13/2015 10:38 AM
I agree with that to a point. Look at a 500hp semi and a 500hp corvette. Both have the same power (angler) but the transmission (gearing) is vastly different. A semi can pull 40 tons (bait) with 500 hp and lower gearing with less stress on the motor (angler), while a corvette has no chance of moving 40 tons because the (gearing is different or higher). Would that motion not apply to a reels gearing ?
Why does the Corvette have no chance at pulling 40 tons?
Other than traction. |
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