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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | M Winther - 2/16/2015 7:33 PM
CiscoKid - 2/16/2015 6:58 PM ToddM - 2/16/2015 6:48 PM What is keeping someone from fishing for them now under those conditions? Nothing except there is no efficient way to do it while casting, and thus catch would be lower. Throw in trolling, and I can now effectively and efficiently target that zone all day long. I am drooling at the thought.  Just asking a simple question Todd. So, what would you think? Travis...why are you trotting out a biological harm argument that's not supported by evidence from other fisheries that allow trolling? Is it possible? Yes. Does it happen? Not to any meaningful degree.
Mike I mentioned I hope I am wrong, and that you and others are right. Again, there will likely not be any undoing if you are wrong, and if there is it will take years to recover. The problem with the lack of evidence argument is there was no before and after data collected where it is allowed.
Maybe I do not know the other landscapes all that well, and am also wrong in that a lot of them are different than the WI lakes I have in mind that will suffer. Hayward probably has some similar to what I am thinking of so maybe some of them would chime in. Some of MN as well.
I am curious to what others think to my questions though. I for one am looking forward to wireline trolling some Vilas Lakes mid-summer. Glad I have not gotten rid of my Talonz, Frankies, and the likes.
Edited by CiscoKid 2/16/2015 7:53 PM
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| CiscoKid - 2/16/2015 7:48 PM
M Winther - 2/16/2015 7:33 PM
CiscoKid - 2/16/2015 6:58 PM ToddM - 2/16/2015 6:48 PM What is keeping someone from fishing for them now under those conditions? Nothing except there is no efficient way to do it while casting, and thus catch would be lower. Throw in trolling, and I can now effectively and efficiently target that zone all day long. I am drooling at the thought. Just asking a simple question Todd. So, what would you think? Travis...why are you trotting out a biological harm argument that's not supported by evidence from other fisheries that allow trolling? Is it possible? Yes. Does it happen? Not to any meaningful degree.
Mike I mentioned I hope I am wrong, and that you and others are right. Again, there will likely not be any undoing if you are wrong, and if there is it will take years to recover. The problem with the lack of evidence argument is there was no before and after data collected where it is allowed.
Maybe I do not know the other landscapes all that well, and am also wrong in that a lot of them are different than the WI lakes I have in mind that will suffer. Hayward probably has some similar to what I am thinking of so maybe some of them would chime in. Some of MN as well.
I am curious to what others think to my questions though. I for one am looking forward to wireline trolling some Vilas Lakes mid-summer. Glad I have not gotten rid of my Talonz, Frankies, and the likes.
Summer night trolling will be unreal. Big muskies and walleyes are untouched over the basin at night. Do it in the rower but this will be much more productive.
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Location: minocqua, wi. | ^stop making sense ... |
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| Trolling 2016. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | BenR - 2/16/2015 8:02 PM
Trolling 2016.
you've been trolling Northern Wisconsin for years |
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| Successfully catching suspended muskies is not the same as killing fish that are real deep. If we're focused on making sense, no straw man arguments please...
I'd bet that Madison or Milwaukee or Minneapolis metro lakes see more pressure every summer week than any similarly sized lakes in Vilas or Oneida Co. Monona is about 3500 acres, Waubesa about 2500, and Wingra 300 so they're comparably sized and less healthy water. All get pounded by casting and trolling every day. CCMI members have maintained 6-8% of total catches being over 45" annually on Dane Co lakes. Are Vilas and Oneida lakes doing that?
If you want to argue tradition or preference or busy-ness, okay, that's subjective and just a disagreement. But it'll kill the fish? C'mon, you can do better than that... |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | lake size has been a discussion point along with the number of lines and how that affects confusion or change from 3 lines for other places, sport fish etc... plenty of good arguments against as there are for and likely why it stands where it stands today.
you are able to claim there will be no change on what merit? because some other lakes that get trolled don't?? 3 stocked lakes in madison??
what happens if you reduce pressure in madison? or what happens if there was a big stocking of muskies on mendota with summer trolling for fish relating to deep water in the heat of summer?? what comparison are you making to what could happen on long, twins, tom, and other smaller deep cisco lakes in the summer months?
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | ToddM - 2/16/2015 6:48 PM
What is keeping someone from fishing for them now under those conditions?
Usually integrity!
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie...
In unusual conditions, I ask myself: "What would Jesus do?"
Have fun! |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | I should have said, I don't agree with the WI 3 lines/angler either. Is it gluttony or a crutch for a poor fisherman or a tradition. WI look at your neighbors!
Some traditions need to be stopped. In some societies its OK to kill your daughter because she dishonered you?
We as a society need to make good decisions without taking away our inherent freedoms.
Can I fish with one line? Yup....Do I need three lines? Nope!
I'll put forward that its more challenging to muskie fish with one-line, and that your catch rate may actually exceed that of someone with two lines or three lines. Why? Because you pay more attention! (Thanks Howie Meyer!).
Let the WI DNR biologist's regulate the limits, etc. If you're worried about specific lakes - bump the limit to 54"/ one line only, that usually removes the PB keep mentallity. Did I say I love Ontario, Canada - they have this nailed and millions of dollars travel across that border...........why?
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 2/16/2015 10:16 PM
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | CiscoKid - 2/16/2015 6:58 PM
ToddM - 2/16/2015 6:48 PM
What is keeping someone from fishing for them now under those conditions?
Nothing except there is no efficient way to do it while casting, and thus catch would be lower. Throw in trolling, and I can now effectively and efficiently target that zone all day long. I am drooling at the thought.
Just asking a simple question Todd. So, what would you think?
Travis: With all due respect, how is that changing the game (your drooling)? I can fish deep water suspended muskies & bait fish ball's with a creature, a Bondy, a Twinkie or an Alien. Trolling is a for the most part a search tool or a means to take a break for me.
Yeah, if I catch the biggest fish in your lake, I'm still putting it back. Unless, it has a chance of putting Louis Spray's record to rest! Yes- I believe WI has few swimming in our waters. They are a very different fish! That's why I fish now..............
Have fun!
Al
Edited by ESOX Maniac 2/16/2015 10:40 PM
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Location: Wisconsin | My only concern is pressure. You are correct CEK, pleasure boaters pose threats to pressure, but some lakes will have many more lures in the water and more often. As well as I think trolling lakes that can be covered easily while casting is just a lazy form of fishing. No offense to anyone, I just prefer casting myself. |
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| Mike, you're comparing apples to horseshoes. What would the Yahara Chain fisheries look like sans stocking efforts? You know as well as I do that the lakes you mentioned are stocked heavily. You're talking about fisheries that are incredibly fertile with a forage base that looks NOTHING like the perch/panfish based lakes in Vilas and Oneida counties. The Madison area lakes may not be as "healthy", but you have to look at the big picture. The fish you are catching in Madison on a regular basis are in a system with ridiculous amounts of forage, and those fisheries are sustained by a lot of stocking, and more importantly a lot of MONEY that does not exist in Vilas and Oneida counties. Let's talk about forage, water chemistry, the biomass those lakes can support, size limits, the amount of money that's available to maintain those fisheries, and the amount of stocking that takes place and THEN make a comparison. Let's talk about population densities, tribal harvest, and growing seasons, and THEN make a comparison.
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Location: north central wisconsin | esoxaddict - 2/16/2015 10:48 PM
Mike, you're comparing apples to horseshoes. What would the Yahara Chain fisheries look like sans stocking efforts? You know as well as I do that the lakes you mentioned are stocked heavily. You're talking about fisheries that are incredibly fertile with a forage base that looks NOTHING like the perch/panfish based lakes in Vilas and Oneida counties. The Madison area lakes may not be as "healthy", but you have to look at the big picture. The fish you are catching in Madison on a regular basis are in a system with ridiculous amounts of forage, and those fisheries are sustained by a lot of stocking, and more importantly a lot of MONEY that does not exist in Vilas and Oneida counties. Let's talk about forage, water chemistry, the biomass those lakes can support, size limits, the amount of money that's available to maintain those fisheries, and the amount of stocking that takes place and THEN make a comparison. Let's talk about population densities, tribal harvest, and growing seasons, and THEN make a comparison.
Money? With that fleet of 400 HP outobards pulling masts all over the northwoods, the gas tax alone should bring plenty enough to stock the lakes, and perhaps, thwart the selling of all of our private lands, all in one blue smoke cloud.
Edited by Reef Hawg 2/16/2015 11:08 PM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | M Winther - 2/16/2015 9:33 PM
Successfully catching suspended muskies is not the same as killing fish that are real deep. If we're focused on making sense, no straw man arguments please...
Who says catching muskies really deep is killing them? Some feel it does, while others do not. Just as there is no evidence that trolling hurts a fishery I do not believe there is any evidence that catching muskies really deep kills them. Speculation maybe, but isn't that what we are doing with this trolling evidence as well?
As far as comparing the Mad Chain Lakes to Vilas and surrounding lakes it is not apples to apples as EA says. The circumstance you are going to run into in Northern WI is the cisco based lakes. Lakes that "aid" in protecting fish from harvest due to the forage drawing fish out deep for a large part of the year, and thus making it more difficult for most anglers to target. Anglers who keep everything they catch. Anglers who would now have the ability to more easily, with trolling, remove the large walleyes from a system that they wouldn't have otherwise targeted by casting. Am I paranoid? Yep! I have also seen the mentality of a lot of the anglers up there, and I feel the paranoia is just.
Also The Northern WI lakes do not get stocked like the Southern waters, and EA also brings up a valid point in growth rates. A warm, fertile lake can rebound much quicker than a cold water fishery that is relatively infertile.
Edited by CiscoKid 2/17/2015 6:49 AM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | ESOX Maniac - 2/16/2015 10:34 PM
CiscoKid - 2/16/2015 6:58 PM
ToddM - 2/16/2015 6:48 PM
What is keeping someone from fishing for them now under those conditions?
Nothing except there is no efficient way to do it while casting, and thus catch would be lower. Throw in trolling, and I can now effectively and efficiently target that zone all day long. I am drooling at the thought.
Just asking a simple question Todd. So, what would you think?
Travis: With all due respect, how is that changing the game (your drooling )? I can fish deep water suspended muskies & bait fish ball's with a creature, a Bondy, a Twinkie or an Alien. Trolling is a for the most part a search tool or a means to take a break for me.
Yeah, if I catch the biggest fish in your lake, I'm still putting it back. Unless, it has a chance of putting Louis Spray's record to rest! Yes- I believe WI has few swimming in our waters. They are a very different fish! That's why I fish now..............
Have fun!
Al
Al again it is efficiency. Yep I can jig for them now, but that is not nearly as efficient as trolling. How much deep water could I troll in a day versus jig? A LOT! |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i want 3 lines on the ice ... and i bet the Salmon guys want their 3 lines too.
fishing tradition now being compared to killing daughters for disobedience ... i must be upstairs. |
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Location: oswego, il | I must admit, I am not one for tradition. The argument Travis seems to be making is about keeping fish. Not catching them. One might take the anti trolling arguement as keeping people from catching them. Jigging big baits has become popular but you do not see people flocking north to try it. I also do not think row trollers will go away, there are traditionalists, I still see guys using oars to position their boat with no tolling motor up north. |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | ToddM - 2/17/2015 7:32 AM
I must admit, I am not one for tradition. The argument Travis seems to be making is about keeping fish. Not catching them. One might take the anti trolling arguement as keeping people from catching them.
Except when it comes to how others feel about running baits 30'+ down during mid summer. |
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Location: NE Wisconsin | Multiple line trolling will have negative impacts on our fishery, BUT, don't touch my right to three line, set line fish through the ice. Tip up fishing is basically set line fishing, but that is great for the 100 acre lake which has one rock structure covered with you and your two kids 9 tip ups for the entire weekend. No negative impacts possible here. Unsized walleyes with swallowed triple hooks, because we get there late, MIGHT live when released. Don't allow trolling, but don't touch my ice set lines!
Northern Wisconsin, home of sucker fishing, where more Muskies have died because being gut hooked then all of the rest of the muskie world combined, because we did it here first and we did it wrong.....single hooks. To this day, I feel "accidentally" swallowed sucker rigs, or broken lines on the hook set, are the number one killer of Muskie's in WI. Now we, here inNorthern Wisconsin, are telling the rest of the muskie fishing world, where trolling has always been legal, trolling will ruin our fisheries??? Is this a joke?
You have to love northern WI, home of shore line setting with a fire to keep you warm while your groups suckers are set up and down the shore. But do not allow trolling, swallowed suckers do less harm to the fish then mouth hooked fish caught trolling.
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Location: NE Wisconsin | Trollers do not want trollers to troll "their" water.
I feel the biggest WI anti motor trolling political push on the Govornor came from row trollers. They do not want anyone else fishing "their" water. Many row trollers are lawyers etc. who are very well connected politically. A phone call from one of them often means more then any public vote, IMO. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | ^ those lawyers stay pretty fit and active vs. their angling peers maybe? i give em credit and appreciate their position especially on smaller lakes. we should all row a boat, it would be good for us.
oh and learn to take a treble out of a deep hooked walleye, it's pretty easy to do ... |
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Johnnie - 2/17/2015 7:55 AM
Multiple line trolling will have negative impacts on our fishery, BUT, don't touch my right to three line, set line fish through the ice. Tip up fishing is basically set line fishing, but that is great for the 100 acre lake which has one rock structure covered with you and your two kids 9 tip ups for the entire weekend. No negative impacts possible here. Unsized walleyes with swallowed triple hooks, because we get there late, MIGHT live when released. Don't allow trolling, but don't touch my ice set lines!
Northern Wisconsin, home of sucker fishing, where more Muskies have died because being gut hooked then all of the rest of the muskie world combined, because we did it here first and we did it wrong.....single hooks. To this day, I feel "accidentally" swallowed sucker rigs, or broken lines on the hook set, are the number one killer of Muskie's in WI. Now we, here inNorthern Wisconsin, are telling the rest of the muskie fishing world, where trolling has always been legal, trolling will ruin our fisheries??? Is this a joke?
You have to love northern WI, home of shore line setting with a fire to keep you warm while your groups suckers are set up and down the shore. But do not allow trolling, swallowed suckers do less harm to the fish then mouth hooked fish caught trolling.
Yes John we have lots of other issues impacting the potential of our fisheries. That does not mean we should allow a new potential problem to the mix. Note I said potential. |
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Location: MN | Curious, to the guys who are opposed to allowing trolling, would you be opposed to it if you were limited to 1 line per person while trolling inland waters? That way the great lakes guys could still have there 3 lines. I can understand why 3 lines while trolling inland waters could cause issues. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i felt that was a great compromise on the trolling side if it becomes inevitable ... i believe it was 2 per boat? you can stack a lot of people in a boat/pontoon for an evening "troll" ...
still want 3 ice lines ... |
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Location: Already Gone | Johnnie - 2/17/2015 7:55 AM
Multiple line trolling will have negative impacts on our fishery, BUT, don't touch my right to three line, set line fish through the ice. Tip up fishing is basically set line fishing, but that is great for the 100 acre lake which has one rock structure covered with you and your two kids 9 tip ups for the entire weekend. No negative impacts possible here. Unsized walleyes with swallowed triple hooks, because we get there late, MIGHT live when released. Don't allow trolling, but don't touch my ice set lines!
Northern Wisconsin, home of sucker fishing, where more Muskies have died because being gut hooked then all of the rest of the muskie world combined, because we did it here first and we did it wrong.....single hooks. To this day, I feel "accidentally" swallowed sucker rigs, or broken lines on the hook set, are the number one killer of Muskie's in WI. Now we, here inNorthern Wisconsin, are telling the rest of the muskie fishing world, where trolling has always been legal, trolling will ruin our fisheries??? Is this a joke?
You have to love northern WI, home of shore line setting with a fire to keep you warm while your groups suckers are set up and down the shore. But do not allow trolling, swallowed suckers do less harm to the fish then mouth hooked fish caught trolling.
Stop Johnnie, this post makes too much sense...
it's easier to blame the FIBS.
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Location: Contrarian Island | call me crazy but I just don't see it being that big of deal If/when it is passed...there isn't going to be a mad dash to troll up there...sure some will do it...and some will get skunked and go back to their usual tactics... there are many bodies of water that allow it.. look at the lakes over towards Hayward... I'd like to see it passed statewide, something like 1 line per person, 3 lines max ... keep it easy/simple. it won't hurt the resource imo. |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | Act 10 made the convoluted CC process a bigger joke than it already was. Governor wasn't involved in process prior to Act 10. |
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Location: oswego, il | I don't have a problem with the compromise either. I agree with what Brad says as well. You can jig deeper than you could troll those lakes and stay right on a spot on the spot. There is a reason it is being done on lsc where trolling is huge. It works everywhere. I can't say this enough, trolling a bait behind your boat does not make you a good fisherman, let alone any measure of success. I talk to guys on lsc who blank and trolled by me all day while we hit double digits.
I don't know about the disobedient daughter thing but if I could slap the drive thru person because they have the inability to understand that hamburgers are served without cheese, that would be a plus.
Edited by ToddM 2/17/2015 4:44 PM
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Location: Oconto Falls, WI | BNelson - 2/17/2015 9:35 AM
call me crazy but I just don't see it being that big of deal If/when it is passed...there isn't going to be a mad dash to troll up there...sure some will do it...and some will get skunked and go back to their usual tactics... there are many bodies of water that allow it.. look at the lakes over towards Hayward... I'd like to see it passed statewide, something like 1 line per person, 3 lines max ... keep it easy/simple. it won't hurt the resource imo.
So if it is not going to be a big deal why are so many up in arms that is hasn't passed by now?
I don't get it. So many on here and elsewhere keep saying it isn't going to increase pressure. Sure seems like a lot of folks that want to do it, which in turn will create pressure.
Also I am surprised not one person has answered my questions yet about me trolling 35' during the summer. That's a good thing I guess since I won't have to worry about the complaining in a few years when it is legal and I am doing it. No worries though as I am sure I will be unsuccessful. 
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Location: Contrarian Island | trolling one line per person is legal in MN...there are huge fish there that go over the basin JUST like in WI...do I ever see guys trolling over there...rarely... why are people up in arms over it... not sure... to me it really won't hurt or make a difference in the fishery... if you are going to troll 35' feet down that is your own ethics and it is legal but if you KNOW it could harm a fish taking it 35 feet down in mid summer if it dies you only have yourself to blame... there are many tactics that most musky anglers know will more than likely harm fish and most don't do them... most of us out there fishing for them want the same things...more fish, bigger fish, unharmed catch photo release... I don't quite get the problem that trolling will do to the resource... so Travis, are you for or against it? I haven't read this whole thread to know....
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