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Location: MN | It still lists this on the website. " Meticulously crafted with hand selected, Western Red Cedar,..." Now I'm curious to check my buddies and my baits that we purchased recently.
Maybe he should come out with a second company called Big Resin Musky Lures. |
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Posts: 216
| Lol.^^ Just checked out the Facebook page and saw the custom colors for the Chicago show, anybody that bought a "neon perch" or "Georgian guide" in 12" and aren't happy with it just shoot me a pm and I'll take em off your hands. I'll never be able to make it to a show and would probly be forever on a list for a pair. I understand that ppl want to know what they are buying but wood or plastic I don't care,I'll do the testing and let you know how they do. |
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Posts: 1360
Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished | I think this is more of a consumer curiosity issue more then anything. no need to stop the thread. I actually am VERY interested in this thread as I initially planned on picking up one or two at the show. But now I wont until the smoke clears. Once it clears though, you better believe I'm getting one |
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Posts: 90
| Lester Neigard - 2/5/2015 4:42 PM
Why should it be locked? Can people not share their complaints of false advertising? Some may not care one way or the other; however, some might be grateful to learn what is actually going on with the production.
I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be locked. I'm just surprised that it isn't! I DO, however, think that customers should have been informed of a change in the material their prized purchase was made out of. I don't think people would be nearly as upset if it were a $20 bait. Instead the baits are $75 plus and not exactly easy to come by. People can't wait to get there hands on them and when they finally do, it's not the advertised product. Will they still work-yes. Will they be more durable-yes. Will they streamline his finishing process-yes. Will they run exactly like the cedar-probably not.
*Tuff Shad made a small run of PVC baits years back and they still caught fish. Boss Shad offers a PVC version of their popular 4.5" bait and it has caught some GIANTS! |
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Posts: 600
| Quote from MstrMusky:
10" Headlock (purchased from Big Wood Musky Lures in Early Jan) = 7.2oz (Resin)
12" Headlock (purchased at Chicago Musky Expo) = 6.5oz (Wood)
12" Mattlock (purchased at Chicago Musky Expo) = 8oz (Wood)
Bigwood site says the 12" mattlock should be 9.5oz
Big Wood Musky Lures is proud to be the exclusive retailer of the Bigwood Supernatural; a custom, hand made and depth adjustable Muskie crankbait from Supernatural Big Baits. The Bigwood Supernatural, AKA Fat Headlock, AKA Mattlock, has an aggressive and mean, wide wobble that just Thumps! The Big Wood Supernatural has the widest and most aggressive wandering pattern or "walk" of the three Supernatural Big Baits offered here at Big Wood Musky Lures. Meticulously crafted with hand selected, Western Red Cedar, the key to this musky lure's unique action is the giant, .125 aluminum lip. With three depth settings available, this one musky lure gives you the versatility of three musky lure's. Remove the split ring and adjust the steel pin to set depth ranges. 60 feet of 100# braided line in the front hole (shallow position) get's you 14 to 16 feet deep at 3.3 MPH. Depths from 8' to over 30' are achievable with this crankbait. Adjust line length, speed and/or hole position to get higher or deeper in the water column. All colors of the Bigwood Supernatural have 6 coats of envirotex clear coat and 3D eyes. Heavy duty hardware includes .092 epoxied, stainless steel eye screws, #7 spro stainless steel split rings and 8/0, nickel plated Mustad Treble hooks. (suited for saltwater as well as freshwater fishing) 9.5 oz. with a 12" body length. The Bigwood Supernatural is made to tame giant Muskies! 14" tackle box depth. Supplies are Limited on these hand made, custom crankbaits!
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Posts: 131
| As one of the few retailers of Supernatural Big Baits, I might be able to shed some light on a few points here.
First off, for those that are confused, Supernatural Big Baits is the manufacturer and Big Wood Musky Lures is a retailer.
The description on my website under the Big Wood Supernatural about being made of "Western Red Cedar" is accurate. The Big Wood, AKA Mattlock is not the bait in question here. The Big Wood has always been made of wood and for the foreseeable future will continue to be made of wood. (a fact that those who prefer wood should take note of) It is the 10" and 12" Headlock that are in question.
It's a fact that there have recently been both resin and wood Headlocks released to the public. As far as anybody purposely trying to deceive the buying public or pass something off as something else intentionally, I don't see it. In the future most, if not all Headlocks will be made of resin. As this transition takes place, baits have been made out of both materials. Mistakes were made and some baits were intermingled. Although I can't speak for the manufacturer as to exactly how this happened, I can say definitively that if you think you have a resin bait and thought you were buying wood and want wood, a refund or exchange is a pretty simple process. That is if you haven't drilled holes in your bait or stripped off the finish...
Although I believe all of the Headlocks sold through Big Wood Musky Lures have been wood, if you bought one from me and don't want it for any reason, let me know via email at [email protected]. Please don't respond here or Facebook, but through email only.
So now we know that Headlocks are moving from wood to resin. What few people know is that Headlocks were originally made of resin and moved to wood. That's right. The first 200 hundred or so Headlocks were resin baits and not only did they catch fish, but they caught big fish and lot's of them. Two of these baits, had broken because they were stepped on, likely in cold weather. They did not break catching fish or being pounded into rocks, they broke from carelessness and abuse. Because 1% of these baits broke, a change was made from resin to wood in an effort to improve the product. That particular mix of resin was deemed too brittle. When the wood baits came out they still caught fish and lot's of them.
Here we are now with Headlocks moving back to resin. Any statements about the resin baits being untested is entirely inaccurate. The driving force behind the changes has been to improve the product. In this case it is a win/win because the production should go up in addition to the baits being even more dialed in and durable.
Simply put, these baits have been fish catching machines in every stage of their existence in either resin or wood. In the 7 years Big Wood Musky Lures has been around, I've never seen anything like the demand that exists for both Headlocks and Big Wood Supernaturals. I've talked to people that told me they have been waiting for over two years to get one. Entire batches of baits have sold out through Big Wood in less than 25 minutes. For those that think demand is going to plummet because of this mishap, I highly doubt that will happen.
With regards to the weight of the Big Wood, AKA Mattlock listed on my website and recent weigh in's of this bait, I will grab a sample of a dozen or so Big Wood's and weigh them with an electronic scale. I think that particular bait may have slimmed down just a bit over the last few years and my listed weight may need to be updated. Of course these baits are currently out of stock, but the next batch should be in, in a few weeks and I'll update the website then if needed. As some have noted above, there are natural variances in wood baits and the weight from bait to bait is not always consistent.
Hope this helps to clarify a few things. For those that have purchased these or any baits from Big Wood, thank you. Your business is much appreciated!
Kyle |
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Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | ^^^^There ya have it!^^^^
You guys are missing the point though....The $80 or $100 price tag has NOTHING to do with the bait being made out of WOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You want to know what your bait is made of? email Duff Thury! Maybe he just forgot to update his website for goodness sake!
Helloooooooooooo |
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Posts: 750
Location: Minneapolis, MN | Here's the issue with this thread, you have multiple people have multiple conversations in it. You have people discussing wood vs. resin and people talking about the possibility of false advertising, but they are responding to each other. |
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Posts: 386
| Kyle, you are a good man with a awesome business! Thanks for chiming in and telling us what you know. |
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Posts: 156
| I think Kyle's post is excellent.
I'm not going to get into the details of my personal situation in this matter. And, really its not a big deal.
I also agree that this thread has taken many turns and has been a bit confusing, but at the end of the day has been a good & informative thread. I'm not going to get into the debate over resin vs. wood as I personally have had success on both types of baits and oddly enough have noticed days where fish seem to prefer one over the other. I also 100% believe that the variation and inconsistency in wood baits drives what I call "volatility in effectiveness" much more so than plastic/resin. I understand why a manufacturer would want consistency in product, but at the same time when you get a "magic" wood bait that seems to have that mojo it can be truly special. I envision a day where I'll have headlocks of both wood and resin. Some will effectively catch muskies, some will not.
I think the lesson learned here that I hope everyone takes away is that transparency is always good. The customer I believe has a right to know what they are buying. Accusations or claiming that Supernatural Big Baits is going to tank is pure emotion & immaturity, and the same goes for the forum/internet police.
I am thankful we have a place such as this forum to discuss and hash out these concepts/issues as a community. |
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Posts: 441
| Kyle is a "top notch" guy!
Thanks for always being honest and going the extra mile, for your customers! |
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Posts: 480
| headlocks 101
I began developing a large crankbaits for trolling in the summer of 2004 after winning a trip to Crow Lake. This lake has a reputation of being a "big bait" lake for trolling monster fish. Muskie Bay resort owner Paul Trinkner showed me his tackle and the stuff his guests like to use. I was hooked, I liked trolling, I liked big baits and I was really going to have fun making big baits for this technique.
The buyer at Thorne Bros. asked me to join him on a trip to Linda Rice's place on Lac Suel in the fall of 2010. He had heard some good reports about my baits from Linda Rice and wanted to give them a "try out". I agreed. I brought along a bag of all different colored 12" headlocks and told him to take whatever he wanted. Linda had already been fishing with headlocks for a couple years on Lac Suel and had a few memorable trips of remarkable fish. The 2010 fall trip was highly successful, lots of big fish in the boat everyday and with pictures to prove it. The baits passed the audition and they were on shelves before Christmas.
What most people don't know is the first 200 headlocks Thornes sold were ALL resin baits. By the summer of 2011, guides, clients and resort guests were catching monster fish on headlocks. Of the first 200 headlocks, 2 broke. 1 was intentional and 1 was unintentional. The decision was made to make them out of wood. Breakage would be eliminated and supply could continue without interuption. Wood headlocks rocked as well. They caught fish just as big and just as fast as the original resin ones. As the guides began using them, they devoured them. Tankers were caught on both resin and wood blanks. When more people loaded into boats more headlocks went out. But wood headlocks are more individual and rarely ran identical to another. That is fine for one angler per side of the boatbut not for 4-6 people in a boat who all wanted to troll. Refinements on presentations changed to solve running them into each other. Wood baits do not all run the exact same. Some blanks have tighter grain structure and direction. Densities can change from one end to the other. Some are too light and some are too heavy to sell. There's lots of waste. Demand for the baits increased, luckily I already have a full time job, a traveling wife and 2 young kids with lots of activities to attend-all of which I dearly love.
Fast forward to the present. Some guides and friends want the original resin baits for their more consistant action and productivity. Extensive testing was performed to make the best possible baitwith the highest success rate. I asked my 6 guides if I could weigh their top 3 headlocks so I could accomulate data from their success. I averaged out the 18 baits by weight (size is a constant) and made a stronger resin bait to that weight. A box of those resin baits to fulfill guide orders was racked for retail sale at the 2015 Chicago muskie show while I was trying to figure out my new credit card machine. Before the show opened, my booth was full of friends, show attendees and buyers with baits already in hand. I couldn't turn back time.
The bottom line is, from the very begining big muskies have eaten headlocks. They ate the original resin baits, they continue to eat every one of them I produce. I fully expect they will continue to do so in the future.
Kyle at Big Wood Musky lures sells a wider version of the headlock called a Big Wood supernatural (AKA- MattLock). He started selling these in 2009 I believe. A guide friend who saw an early version of the headlock wanted to suggest an improvement. His suggestion wa to make it wider and have it "start" at a slower speed for late fall trolling. He was right, I agreed to make a fatter one with the same profile but with a wider lip. Kyle now sells headlocks along with the Big Wood model.
If anyone would like to resin the mis-racked resin baits please contact me through my email address and I will replace it with a wood blank version. I'm sorry for any inconvience this caused. And thank you for all the support from this forum, and my friens and clients
SIncerely,
duff thury my email address is: [email protected] |
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Location: MN | Thanks for the clarification Kyle.
With different weight and presumably different buoyancy ya gotta think the baits will run different. It should be interesting to see which one gets more attention from the muskies. It's good to hear the resin's have already seen a lot of test time in the water with success. I might have to grab a resin at the show and do some testing to see it if outperforms the wood one this summer. |
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Posts: 1360
Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished | YUP! Duffs reply is all I needed. Duff, you will have a new, and I am sure very happy customer come the MN muskie expo. We very much appreciate you taking the time out to explain this to all of us.
Thank you and see you at the expo. I can't wait |
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Posts: 427
Location: Planet Meltdown | Thank you for posting, Duff. Interesting facts about the history of your baits!
ShutUpNFish - I do believe, NOW we have it.  |
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Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | Yep...And NO better que than the one above to close the thread |
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Posts: 216
| Yeah Except, now where the heck can I buy a couple? |
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Posts: 791
Location: WI | Thanks for the clarification duff. I hope you can understand where the questions came from. Wish you all the best in the future |
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Posts: 1901
Location: MN | I think it was all part of Duff's master plan to get everyone buzzing about this. In the end he or Kyle will make it right for everyone that had a problem, and in the meantime look at the free press he's getting Great bait, great guy, summer can't come soon enough! |
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Posts: 25
| Wood lures leads to inconsistency, period!!!! Keep gambling on 'em guys, I'll take plastic any day. After buying 10+ Suicks over the years and only one of them ran like my buddies "secret" one I gave up on buying wood lures years ago. I catch the heck out of 'em on hard and soft plastic and wire baits. Just my 2 cents worth. |
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Posts: 2026
| Headlocks, Liplocks, and SuperNaturals, sure to start fights...
Edit: I didn't see Duff's response. Unfortunately, I misquoted his signature. On another note, Duff, did you adjust the weight of your samples to account for all of the tooth rash? |
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Posts: 682
Location: Sycamore, IL | ARmuskyaddict - 2/6/2015 5:29 PM
Headlocks, Liplocks, and SuperNaturals, sure to start fights...
BINGO! I guess it's true...they really don't play well with others:) |
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Posts: 455
| Cool I like the Big Wood supernatural best anyway. |
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Posts: 581
Location: deephaven mn | hotest bait on the market, duffs post a more accurate the kyles, understandable.
both honest and informative.
one of duffs guides gave me a tip as to selecting the one to buy of the rack,
and the resin has this feature incorperated |
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Posts: 156
| kap - 2/6/2015 6:47 PM
one of duffs guides gave me a tip as to selecting the one to buy of the rack,
and the resin has this feature incorated
Ohhhh, ahhhh. A trade secret.  |
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Posts: 62
| Come on .... what is that feature?
All of this reminds me what that certain tax software company is going through because they changed their product.
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Posts: 581
Location: deephaven mn | i read the all the posts and the tip was confirmed by the details of a buyer that bought three |
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Posts: 600
| Thanks Kyle and Duff for clarification! |
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Posts: 156
| kap - 2/6/2015 7:40 PM
i read the all the posts and the tip was confirmed by the details of a buyer that bought three
Let me know which bait, I'll sell it to you for $200. |
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'First off, for those that are confused'
There was allot of that in this one. |
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