Posted 2/17/2014 3:01 PM (#692126 - in reply to #692085) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Posts: 455
Full discloser I`m am old and old school. Took me a long time ever figure out how display the stupid temp on my unit. I don`t doubt that in the hands of the rite person doing certain things it will help catch more fish. I mean if you like fishing docks it will help you find fish and avoid ropes it`s that detailed. I still think it will help more for Bass and fish your trying to drop a jig on but no doubt I`m behind the curve as well. People use this technology in different ways too. When I went to Canada my buddy asked why I wasn`t marking way points to set a trolling route? I told him I don`t want to troll a bunch of strait lines from here to there I want to follow a contour. I just leave the past path line and adjust my route by that on consecutive passes. Some people love technology upgrades others fear them. Now I have to install it and learn 400 new commands and keystrokes is my fear. I would rather chill out and smoke a cigar while using my old reels and way too short rods watching my less that thrilling screen. I`m sure somebody has used it to improve the catch rate on muskies. It sure can`t hurt. Andy
Posted 2/17/2014 9:28 PM (#692222 - in reply to #690852) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Posts: 43
Location: Waite Park, MN
If you want to look ahead, take a look at the Spotlight Scan. On Lowrance's site, under Support/Video Library, there is a video on it. Frankly, I'd suggest taking an hour to watch all their videos on HDS and Sonar. I personally am going to spend some time looking into the Insight Planner s/w, and my favorite lake is going to get recorded with Insight Genesis. http://www.lowrance.com/en-US/Support/Video-Library/
Posted 2/18/2014 10:29 AM (#692299 - in reply to #692222) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Location: 31
We just got another 5” of snow here, and I must say this cold and snowy winter has provided yet another layer of respect from me for you guys from the more northern regions… I honestly don't know how you do it. Old man winter, will you ever release your icy grip to make way for thickening weed beds and the great toothy one?
I think that Cyber's comment to watch the videos is an outstanding suggestion.
I typically don't like to comment on something I do not have a direct knowledge with. However, when I read Kirby's post, I instantly thought about casting at night with the structure scan/spotlight scan dialed in to help pick up follows.
I think it's a pretty neat concept and although I have no experience with it, I don't see why it would not have some very viable muskie applications in that regard. Perhaps somebody familiar with casting with the Bird 360° imaging can chime in with more detail?
For you guys who are interested in the Lowrance spotlight scan, a bit of a heads up… I ordered one in January and it is back ordered until 3-7 (hopefully). I don't know if there's going to be a shortage, but I also didn't want to take a chance waiting until May to order just in case.
Brian, I have friends who were that good with their sonar, and it was truly amazing to watch! I just never got to that level of confidence with them, and super glad that's in the rearview mirror for me now. That is going to be a tough call for someone with your ability... but nothing lasts forever either eh'.
Frank, I honestly have no idea on that number per unit, but can tell you that trolling with the SS was a real game changer for me… it even changed the way I make my trolling passes, and it keeps me running optimally a greater percentage of the time.
For instance; I can precisely first run one side of my board lures through the “spot and spot” just in case they're not into a prop wash bite that day. So, not only is finding those little gems more efficient, SS then allows an astute angler to literally pick them apart differently depending on conditions.
Andy, like your friend recommended to you, I rely heavily on icons to help make better trolling passes. One thing I am hugely disappointed with is the way that Lowrance reconfigured the icons/waypoints with the HDS… but that's a whole other topic.
Posted 2/18/2014 10:43 AM (#692304 - in reply to #690852) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Posts: 285
Location: Eagan, MN
Last fall, JLong and I found a ton of deep water musky suspended with some bait. We floated directly over dozens of muskies in this area and yo-yo'd our baits in their faces when the opportunity presented itself. Out of dozens of fish that saw our yo-yo'd presentation, only three struck. Was the fact that we caught so few of these fish relative to what was there a lure presentation failure? Or, as JLong suggested at the time, a shortcoming of our downward looking, traditional electronics? He surmised that the fish were getting turned-off by the close proximity of the boat directly over their heads. For the fish suspended higher in the water column, that might have been 10' or so. In this example, could those fish have been spotted on a 360 degree transducer, allowing us to present a lure to them from a greater distance? I'm hopeful that the answer is 'yes', but need to have (what we call at work) some independent, third-party validation. Is anyone using their side imaging/360 capabilty in this way?? Could we see a fish, say, suspended 10' down over 26' of water, for example, and cast directly to the fish? Would we know what depth that fish was holding at if 60 feet off the port side of the boat? These are musky-specific questions I'm seeking to answer.
Posted 2/18/2014 12:27 PM (#692338 - in reply to #692308) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI
Well... one of those three fish BrianF caught that night was a whopper at 53 inches.... and the other two were nothing to sneeze at either. I'm afraid to think how badly he will out-fish me in the future if he upgrades to today's newer technologies. Good thing musky fishing is a TEAM sport!
Vertical jigging muskies 25 feet down over 30 feet of water is a new frontier for me. A Frontier that I think today's technologies will help us explore more efficieintly and effectively. Are the guys on the Detroit River using this technology to compliment their Bondy Bait presentations?
Posted 2/18/2014 9:43 PM (#692477 - in reply to #692338) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Posts: 455
I must see a hundred for every one I catch trolling. Does not seam efficient to find one fish and cast to it but that's just me. Jerry I just don`t get trolling point to point when I have a map overlay to keep me on the breakline or whatever I want to fish. Why troll point to point like a stiff robot? The lake contour is fluid and you can`t make proper trolling runs simply driving from point to point. You can no way replicate one of my trolling runs by marking waypoints. Unless you want to set two hundred waypoints per mile.
Posted 2/19/2014 9:54 AM (#692519 - in reply to #692477) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Location: 31
Andy, you're going to laugh but 200 icons per trolling mile sounds about right. I don't troll contour lines, I troll saved icons… and crazy town or not, about the only time I even look at the contour lines is when I’m checking out a new lake/area.
Now laying down that many icons would obviously be a huge hassle for a caster, but is a piece of cake for a troller, and anymore it’s nearly automatic for me to drop and adjust icons while rolling along. Obviously my “icon maps” are always being adjusted, and therefore actually change quite a bit as the season progresses.
A friend of mine bought the latest greatest with a map chip for a 2000 acre lake we frequented a while back. He was anxious to try it and had his unit set up with the cigarette lighter deal, so we had it running in my boat alongside my Lowrance that I already had the entire 15’ break line marked out with icons from previous trips (about 900+ icons).
We were both hoping for something new, but after a couple of hours we ended up just shutting his unit off because the map chip contour lines were not nearly as accurate or useful for what we are doing. With that said; I have seen some very accurate contour lines (especially in the Great Lakes), and it's obviously always something you to have to start with in a new area.
Regarding fishing fish (that sounds kind a funny) seen on the sonar; I think my percentages are little better than that but still pretty dismal, and although I can certainly spot fish on a LCX sonar, I can’t really tell the difference between a muskie and brown trout for instance. I'm pretty sure we saw the heaviest fish ever in my boat on the LCX just before she hit, but my fish ID confidence level isn't even in the same league as identifying fish with structure scan.
Posted 2/19/2014 11:27 AM (#692522 - in reply to #692519) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Location: 31
Brian-Jason, that’s pretty cool next level stuff there! I think you need to consider taking your electronics to the next level with side imaging (for research purposes only of course), and if the Bird 360° imaging is the same as structure scan, you will absolutely be able to spot those fish in front of and off to the side while casting once you get acclimated. I'm thinking the Lowrance spotlight scan should also be a viable consideration, and even though I'm confident the technology is solid, it remains to be seen.
BTW, that complete 2 unit set-up of a HDS Gen2 10 and 8 with structure scan ended up going off on eBay for $2150 shipped (the nice Cisco mounts were also available), if you add in a spotlight scan you're looking at a $2500 investment to have some pretty high-tech components.
I've been selling these HDS units for a friend in the industry and confident that the HDS Gen2 push button units will continue to hold their value too, even the somewhat antiquated HDS Gen1 and even the LCX 111-113 units are still holding pretty fair value because people simply love those big screens.
I sold a used HDS 10 Gen2 on eBay for almost $1500 a year ago (no SS), so that eBay deal was very solid, and it would be an easy switch down the road to a touch screen. I’ll also be selling some touch 12s and 9s this spring, if your are interested please feel free to PM me for a good deal on some new units.
Oh, and you guys both forgot to mention which lake that was, I think that's necessary before I can provide any further insight... Haha! I sincerely hope this helps.
Navico SonarHub Sounder Module with TM150M Transom Mount Transducer - The compact SonarHub sounder module provides an all-in-one solution for adding best-in-class StructureScan HD and CHIRP sonar capabilities to compatible Lowrance HDS and Simrad NS series multifunction displays.
An easy-to-install, plug-and-play, all-in-one network solution - the SonarHub™ Sounder Module makes it easier than ever to identify productive fishing areas with connectivity to the latest sonar technologies for Lowrance HDS and Simrad NS displays - including CHIRP and StructureScan HD imaging - as well as the Lowrance SpotlightScan™ bow-mounted solution for HDS Gen2 models.
• Compact, all-in-one sonar module delivers StructureScan HD and CHIRP sonar technologies.
• CHIRP sonar with Airmar TM150M or B150M transducers delivers extremely efficient pulse generation that provides improved target resolution and noise rejection, as well as wide coverage for perfect arches that clearly identify fish targets.
• StructureScan HD offers best-in-class, side-scanning range and resolution, plus DownScan Imaging™ to provide crystal-clear, picture-like views of what's beneath your boat.
• Optional transducers include Airmar TM150M and B150M single-channel CHIRP transducers, existing StructureScan HD transducers, and the SpotlightScan™ surround-scanning sonar transducer.*
• Plug-and-play compatibility with Lowrance HDS Gen1 (not including SpotlightScan™ and CHIRP sonar), HDS Gen2 and Gen2 Touch fishfinder/chartplotter models, and Simrad NSO,NSE and NSS series multifunction displays.
Edited by Jerry Newman 2/21/2014 10:25 AM
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Posted 2/19/2014 11:51 AM (#692523 - in reply to #690852) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Posts: 43
Location: Waite Park, MN
I agree that contour lines may not be the best/most reliable path for trolling or to follow for casting. I also agree about dropping lots of waypoints, or what I regularly do is make trails. Next, what you can do is turn the trail into a route, and then with a new Xi5 Motorguide that will follow a route once it's integrated to Lowrance, you can let the boat do the driving, so to speak, from following your prior trail, and have a more foot-free approach to casting. Plus, the new Xi5 has a wireless foot control, so you aren't tethered to the bow of the boat. Then, keep the remote on clipped to your belt, and when the fish strikes, hit the pinpoint anchorlock button and the boat will stay on spot.
Posted 2/19/2014 9:24 PM (#692675 - in reply to #692523) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Posts: 455
Well the contour lines on the St. Lawrence are almost perfect. Charts on my local lakes are not up to par but I don`t use GPS much on those waters. When I see someone on my local waters catch more and bigger than me in less time using HDS, then maybe I consider the upgrade. Remember that was the question. Will they help catch more muskies? I have not seen that. Really fun to debate this issue I must admit.
Posted 2/21/2014 10:08 AM (#693017 - in reply to #692675) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Location: 31
I'm not really looking for a debate… just sharing information. It will be interesting to see how this Lowrance spotlight scan stacks up against the Bird 360° imaging.
I really like the idea of the Xi5 too, but that will not integrate with the spotlight scan because it is only compatible with a cable controlled bow mount. My 2014 game plan is to troll with my bow mount down and locked into position to see what's coming, and although my focus is obviously trolling now, I was an avid caster for my first 25 years and could only dream (and did) of having something as cool as this back in the day… it’s kind of weird that it's going to be reality now.
Posted 2/22/2014 2:41 PM (#693265 - in reply to #691222) Subject: RE: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Posts: 192
cyberfish - 2/12/2014 4:51 PM
Here's one more thing to do over winter. Pick a few new lakes you want to fish, get yourself a copy of PC software like Lowrance Insight Planner, mark up the lakes in the software creating waypoints and routes you want to run, export them and import them onto your Lowrance equipment, and you have a great plan to execute on new lakes!!
Can you use this software to create a pre-saved track for the Motor Guide Xi5? I know it is supposed to store 10 tracks for future use. My assumption is you have to physically run the track and then save it for repeating later. It would be really cool if you could create it on the computer before you head to the lake.
Posted 2/23/2014 7:23 AM (#693372 - in reply to #690852) Subject: RE: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Posts: 455
Going to the boat show today. Will check out the new units. Why do people split the screen with the standard color LCX and HDS? Why not go full screen HDS? Is the cone wide enough or do you have to use it with side scan to get the full picture. Guess I'll ask the Lowrance dude.
Posted 2/23/2014 7:28 AM (#693373 - in reply to #690852) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Posts: 43
Location: Waite Park, MN
When I set up my screen, I normally put Side Scan all the way across the bottom of the screen, and then put a chart and either sonar or Downscan above it.
Posted 2/23/2014 8:31 AM (#693390 - in reply to #693278) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Posts: 192
cyberfish - 2/22/2014 4:38 PM
Soon you'll be able to do that. Lowrance routes will be run by the Xi5. You can make routes with Insight Planner.
Cool, I'm planning to order a new boat this year and thinking of Lowance HDS Gen2 Touch units with an Xi5.
I have another question. If you pull up to middle portion of a saved route or track and hit the start button what happens? Does it jump right in and continue on or does it try to take you all of the way back to the start of the track?
Also, will it run a saved track in the reverse direction?
Posted 2/23/2014 9:44 PM (#693587 - in reply to #693372) Subject: RE: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Location: 31
muskyrat - 2/23/2014 7:23 AM
Going to the boat show today. Will check out the new units. Why do people split the screen with the standard color LCX and HDS? Why not go full screen HDS? Is the cone wide enough or do you have to use it with side scan to get the full picture. Guess I'll ask the Lowrance dude.
It's to view both the down and side scan at the same time. I mainly use the HDS for the 3-D down and side scan, but it also makes an excellent place to rest my arm while I play with the LCX icon/trails buttons too :). I kind of like the idea of the side scan stretching across the bottom Cyber, and will check that configuration out this spring.
In case someone is wondering; I basically run the LCX units because they're big and cheap (already had), and having 2 of them on board (1 up front) still provides redundancy in case one goes down. They still work excellent for the 2-D stuff, and this way I don't have to mess around with the conversion and resulting numbered waypoints.
If anyone has figured out a way to convert old icons to non-numbered waypoints please share, because one of these years I'm going to have to bite the bullet and go all HDS.
The reason I have the screen set up like that with the helm LCX is to have the GPS screen size as large as possible with a large MPH overlay, the small sliver of sonar comes in handy on the same screen too, especially when running.
Posted 2/24/2014 9:02 AM (#693658 - in reply to #690852) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Posts: 43
Location: Waite Park, MN
A couple things: yes, you'd be able to run the route forwards or backwards, or even start from a point midway into the route.
Lowrance has a rich history of being in the autopilot business, so this is going to be a robust interface.
With regard to the question about changing from numeric way points to alphanumeric: I don't have experience with the former, but I'd be surprised if you couldn't take the exported way points, read them into Insight Planner, rename them and export and import to your new HDS units. I personally name all my important way points. Fish ones are dollar sign images that have the date/time and size of fish that I caught at that way point. By touching it on my HDS, I get the data of the way point displayed. Others commonly get additional text that is important (like that I lost a supertanker on that spot!). HDS Touch makes naming them a breeze, too, since the keyboard pops up on the screen when you are in a text field.
Posted 2/24/2014 9:12 AM (#693660 - in reply to #690852) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Posts: 43
Location: Waite Park, MN
Jerry, I just caught your note about the large MPH on the helm screen. Just thought I'd share what I've started doing. With an HDS 10 or 12 on my bow, when I'm running, I put up the "Info" panel on the display, and one of the data elements is speed, so I have that out in front of me as I drive. I have a Warrior 208XRS, so that display is maybe 13-14 feet in front of me, but the data is so big on the screen it is very readable.
I am obsessive about data overlay elements, which is why I was glad that Lowrance went from 5 to 10 items when they went from GEN1 to GEN2. I have most of my engine data elements off the N2K bus on my dash HDS in small font. When I had Mercury on the boat I had a Smartcraft gauge, and when I've had Evinrude I've run I-Command gauges, but I really prefer to have all the data in front of me w/o having to push a button to get another data element on a gauge.
Posted 2/25/2014 4:23 PM (#694116 - in reply to #693820) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Location: 31
Brian, a trolling motor upgrade is not a requirement, if you are considering the Lowrance spotlight scan, it will only work with a bow mounted cable control anyway.
Cyber, although that probably works good for you, it wouldn't work very well for me because I already have my hands full with 2 large units at the helm. Heck, a third up front would probably be more than could handle… would end up flopping around on the floor of my boat from electronic gizmo overload ?
Posted 2/26/2014 7:10 AM (#694242 - in reply to #690852) Subject: RE: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI
As mentioned the newest MH article brings up a very nice tip with the SI units, and is pretty much what JLong is saying. You can drive along with the SI units and mark structure off to the side. You can then move your cursor over to it on the screen, and lay a waypoint on structure. You no longer have to drive directly over the top of a crib, or sunken log/tree, or rock pile to lay a waypoint. That is a real time saver! I did some of it last year when I finally got up to date with technology, but not nearly enough.
Posted 2/28/2014 8:33 AM (#694850 - in reply to #694797) Subject: Re: Cutting Edge Electronics and Muskies
Posts: 201
JLR - 2/27/2014 10:14 PM
Has anyone used any of the new "create your own map" products? Seems like they might pick up some details that you miss while fishing. Do they help?
I am thinking of picking up the Lakemaster version once they finally release it. It would be nice to be able to use the follow contour feature on DuBay and some other waters here in central Wisconsin. Since they aren't on the newest Lakemaster chips that is the only way I will be able to do it.
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Good thing musky fishing is a TEAM sport! 
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