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Posts: 66
| How do you know they were safely released? Just because they swam away doesn't mean they weren't injured. It's fishing and you are jamming a hook into their mouth -- sometimes things happen. You remind me of a few people I know who go fishing but never really enjoy it because they are so worried about injuring a fish or policing everybody on etiquette. When they catch one it's almost a disappointment because now they have to handle it instead of just getting the picture, smiling/high fiving a little and enjoying the moment for a few seconds. |
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Posts: 27
| Angler II - 1/20/2014 7:51 PM
TopWaterTuffy - 1/20/2014 7:43 PM
Angler II - 1/20/2014 7:29 PM
TopWaterTuffy - 1/20/2014 6:51 PM
It's one thing to fish for them during the spawn. It's another to go into that type of fishing without the proper gear.
How hard is it to put on a pair of waders so u can get in the water and actually land it vs fighting a spawning fish for 4-5 min (per keyes himself) because u don't have the equipment to take care of the fish?
the biggest fish of that episode snapped the line (who knows what lb test) head shaking on shore because the water was too deep for their knee highs and they couldn't land it properly. Swam off with a pair of trebble hooks in its mouth. That should help the spawn.
If your going to do it, at least do it right. He was out there for a few days in a row too. Day one I'll give a free pass but how do u not bring waders with you the next couple days?
The last two episodes were great by the way. Keyes always thinks outside the box when targeting muskies. Much better than the other shows out there IMO..
Totally despicable in my opinion.
How do you know he didn't have the correct gear? Ever got a fray in your line? Broke off? Despicable is a pretty strong word to describe someone with a huge devotion to the sport....did you fish last Muskie opener? If so then you're right there with the rest of us, despicable or not....
Yup, I fished last years opener. Put two in my net and safely released both of them. Not my point though. Read the first sentence in my previous post.
It's called put on a pair of waders or get your nice try in the water and that fish would have been properly released and not left swimming with a bait stuck in its mouth while it's trying to spawn.
Despicable? Maybe not but I think it's pretty #*^@ dumb to fish for muskies without the proper gear.....especially for a guy that supposedly lives and breathes the sport
Apparently you know how deep the water was. The season was open, everything was done within the law, his line snapped. Get over it...
You think the water level was over his head? I doubt it.....even for keyes
Legal? Absolutely and it's his right to do it
Ethical? No
Could he have done it in an ethical way? Yup and that's what I have an issue with. The guy promoting the sport didn't promote it the right way that episode. Just my opinion |
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Location: oswego, il | FishHateMe - 1/20/2014 6:50 PM
I have Comcast in Chicago. It's accessible. Call them and tell them you want World Fishing Network - channel 426. Either pay the extra $15/month for the "Sportsman's Package" they try and sell you, or threaten to leave for AT&T or a dish, and ask them to throw it in for free (and then some). Worked for me.
cool thanks!
man, I wish I had more critics. I would love to have someone bad mouth me because I could not prepare for every possible situation that could occur.
had a musky break its jaw a couple years ago. Hit the boat hard with its nose and busted the center bone and the top of its jaw was pointing straight up. I could not set the bone. I just didn't have the right equipment with me to do it. I released it but I could not imagine it survived. Feel free to bash me. I still don't have a way to set a broken jawbone. |
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Posts: 5171
| Keyes shows this year were really beautiful.His musky catches do not harm the fish.This poor guy cant catch a break from the armchair fisherman on the net.0723
Edited by 0723 1/20/2014 8:15 PM
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| ToddM - 1/20/2014 8:04 PM
FishHateMe - 1/20/2014 6:50 PM
I have Comcast in Chicago. It's accessible. Call them and tell them you want World Fishing Network - channel 426. Either pay the extra $15/month for the "Sportsman's Package" they try and sell you, or threaten to leave for AT&T or a dish, and ask them to throw it in for free (and then some). Worked for me.
cool thanks!
man, I wish I had more critics. I would love to have someone bad mouth me because I could not prepare for every possible situation that could occur.
had a musky break its jaw a couple years ago. Hit the boat hard with its nose and busted the center bone and the top of its jaw was pointing straight up. I could not set the bone. I just didn't have the right equipment with me to do it. I released it but I could not imagine it survived. Feel free to bash me. I still don't have a way to set a broken jawbone.
How hard is it to put on a pair of waders when you are fishing small streams? |
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Posts: 87
| I liked the episode! I thought it was cool to see something besides casting out of a boat! I thought keyes did a great job with the show and did nothing wrong imo. its fishing.. line breaks just apart of the game. i bet it didn't take that pig of a fish to shake that bait free. |
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Posts: 531
| TopWaterTuffy - 1/20/2014 9:10 PM
How hard is it to put on a pair of waders when you are fishing small streams?
Like I said before, I do it, quite often I might add. I try not to wear waders only if I have to. The amount of work to bank fish is enough to keep many people off the creeks (it isn't stop the truck, take three steps and start casting), throw in the effort to bush whack with wader makes it sometimes a nightmare not to mention how fast you can destroy a set of waders
what's the real issue here? Had he jumped in the water and had that fish arm pit level, not many people practice landing musky when they are waist deep in water, would that have made the video acceptable?
He isn't going to please everyone here, that video was not live footage it was recorded 9 months ago. Its done its fun to watch, even if your against it there is an entertainment value to it. It has got a discussion going
Would you have jumped in for that fish, remember that fish was big, had a mouth ful of hooks, and that water was flowing pretty good. Would you have taken cool water over your waders and risk your life to land that fish?
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Location: oswego, il | Again trying to prepare for any situation possible is impossible. |
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Winter is here, obviously! Seems like the elitist's are all up in arms...... I've fished for them in May in Canada. So was the shore fishing methodology the problem? Everytime, I've ever seen Mike Keyes on the water or talked muskies with him, he has been solidly on the side of protecting the resource. MIke uses serious gear, crap happens as does crap happens when a big fish is hooked up! Seeing folks upset by what they don't think meets their standards bothers me.....
I'm sure sure Mike didn't like that fish breaking off either, no muskie fisherman would, and I can assure you Mike Keyes has all the necessary tools to release the fish safely even shore fishing. I know Mike would do everything possible to to avoid that if he had the opportunity. Mike could have just chosen to suppress the video footage of the big fish breaking off! Kudo's to him for not doing that, as I understand why he didn't! Should he suppress that you can catch big fish from shore?
Is 4-5 minutes to fight a big fish from shore not unreasonable? This is not 78+ degree water either . You won't tolerate a fish breaking off? Maybe, you are the invincible muskie fisherman or you shouldn't throw a lure? Let's ban all shoreline angling for muskies if you aren't wearing waders! Hows that going to work for you? Good luck! I can show you spots on the WI River where you can step from 2' to + 20' of water in one step, and good luck swimming with your waders......
Who out there can prove that catching them from shore versus from a boat is better for their survival? Again, good luck with that!
Thanks Mike!
Al |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Despicable Me indeed,........ Really ? Never mind....
Jerome
Edited by Top H2O 1/20/2014 9:41 PM
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| Veithr3293 - 1/20/2014 5:17 PM
I may have a unique way of looking at this but for the human species our ladies can be paid to take time off for maternity leave before and after she gives birth giving her body time to heal itself. I don't want to get into the specifics of R and K strategists on here but a spawning is a very energy draining event for a musky, and when you add getting caught on top of that you can see where the increased risk for injury occurs. Fish that far up into creeks and streams are only there for one reason and should be protected. makes sense to me!! them fish on the show look like they where pretty beat down
Edited by Netmaster 1/20/2014 11:46 PM
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Posts: 999
| I was inspired by the show and will try this in a small river that I know holds muskys this summer. One thing I noticed from the show is that they had no control over the fish with the light spinning tackle so Im going to use a shorter bait caster with 100 lb so if I need to horse the fish away from a log jam or other brush/snags I can. Should also improve the landing time. I thought it was a great show and it was nice to see something different! |
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| many of us know the general area that Keyes was fishing, as well as the fact that the spawn is mostly just "going through the motions" in that part of the state. at the same time, many people watching that show don't know those things as they aren't familiar with central Wisconsin.
the risk is that it might send a message that targeting spawning fish on light tackle is okay as long as the season is open. i doubt that's the message Keyes intended, as it was more likely "hey, this is fun and interesting," and he has a catch-and-release message firmly embedded in the show. Bryan Schaeffer is a considerate angler and guide as well.
it probably would have helped if he'd taken a minute or two to talk about the ethics involved with the reality of almost no natural reproduction in that area. i personally would have preferred gear that could subdue a fish more quickly to reduce the chance of delayed mortality.
it was interesting, and if nothing else it has people talking...
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Posts: 117
| I thought it was a awesome show at the end of the day. Keyes is always on "Adventure Mode" |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | So what is the reason that spawning is unsuccessful it surely can't just be latitude as many areas at the same or lower latitude have very successful spawns ? What portion of the state would you be talking not looking for your spots I never drive more than 2 hours? |
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Location: Maine Township, MN | Great show. Keyes Outdoors is one of the most entertaining shows on TV. Keep 'em coming! |
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Location: North St. Paul, MN | I've been watching this episode since it hit you tube back in November. I can't for the life of me figure out how you can tell the line broke. I just rewatched it this morning on my DVR and can't see the line breaking. I also couldn't see the lure in the mouth as the big fish swam away at the end. IF the lure was in the mouth of the fish it was to the outside...plausible to think the fish shook the hook or rusted out? In my opinion, IF the lure was in the mouth it was not "pinned" shut.
Fun episode, great entertainment...Always good stuff from Mike Keyes and the boys that put that show on. Even better stuff watching the Mille Lacs shows the last two weeks. |
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Location: Hudson, WI | They were discussing the targeting of spawning muskies on this week's show (Mille Lacs, Part 2). Basically Hamernick was explaining that they are fishing fast to cover water and trying to get a reaction strike from a fish that is done spawning. As has been eluded to several times, the fish that are moving in to spawn are extremely negative and won't go anyway. Mike also made it a point to let the viewers know not to harrass paired up fish...let them do their thing.
I've known Mike for many years and I seriously can't believe the #*#* that he takes on these boards sometimes. One of the nicer guys you'll ever meet and he has done an awful lot for this sport. |
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Posts: 196
| Not going to pick sides for or against the show. The only question I have is this the type of PR that muskie anglers want portrayed? That we target muskie while they are spawning? |
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| MstormC - 1/21/2014 1:01 PM
Not going to pick sides for or against the show. The only question I have is this the type of PR that muskie anglers want portrayed? That we target muskie while they are spawning?
So how was he targeting spawing fish? If a fish is spawning they won't go after a bait. He was just fishing in areas where post-spawn fish are located -- no different than doing it on a lake. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | What Moltisanti said. |
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Location: Duluth, MN | Thought it was the most interesting Musky show Ive ever seen!
We fish steelhead in Naturally producing streams every spring. Strictly catch and release, no harm done when the fish are handled properly. In the show he targeted fish that have laready spawned or not yet spawned. Same with the steelhead, as long as your not raking the gravel beds, no harm in my opinion. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | if this group was given the opportunity they would legislate themselves out of their own sport … but, the good news would be that then they wouldn't have to disrupt the show season and it could continue throughout the year and not just in the winter. |
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Posts: 9
| I really enjoyed the Keyes episode because I live in WV and wade and bank fish small steams year round...My only criticism would be Mikes equipment.. a stiff rod and 100 lb test line are necessary to get and keep fish under control..Simply get the fish to you or the bank quickly as possible, reach down with longhandled pliers and pop them loose...If you need a picture or an exact measurement this type of fishing is not for you....Handlanding a big fish from the water or the bank with the lure still in its mouth is not easy or smart ..90% of the fish I catch this way never leave the water..I have had several large fish (mid to high forty inchers ) follow in and lay right by my leg....very exciting and a great way to fish. I am 65 years old and have been fishing this way since I was a teenager.... My experiences make me believe spawning fish rarely eat a lure...great show, no harm done.. |
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Posts: 35
| So, is it a bad idea to fish muskies during the spawn or not? I can't find anything online on the subject. Could somebody please post a link to some research (if any) that has been done instead of blurting out how terrible they think Keyes Outdoors is for making these episodes. My experience fishing the spawn = fish 8-12 hours, see 50-200 fish, maybe catch one on average. Doesn't seem to me like a whole lot of damage is being done.
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| I saw the show(s). To be honest I am not a fan of Keyes outdoors; I just think its a little bush league compared to others. That being said I saw no issue with what he was doing. Hat's off to him for trying something different. It beats one of the "memory" shows where most of the fish are flash back to previous episodes. He made sure to point out on both shows to leave paired up fish alone. At the end of the day how many people are actually going to trouncing through the woods with hip boots on to catch fish. I just don't see it as an issue. |
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Location: Alsip, IL | wow those youtube comments are horrible. That was sad to read. |
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Location: Minnetonka | mecoltin123 - 1/21/2014 11:20 PM
wow those youtube comments are horrible. That was sad to read.
Agreed. Looks like some of them were removed, but Mehsikomer took a pretty hard shot at him in the comments, which I found a bit distasteful from one ambassador of our sport to another publicly. Everything Mike did was legal and he had no intention of harming the fish. Is it wrong to target fish at night because they're stressed from the recreational traffic in the day? Or, to target fish that have come into shallow water to rest in the sun and digest a bunch of tulibees, but can't resist a reaction strike on a burned bucktail? Bottom line, Mike's probably raised enough Muskies Inc awareness to replenish multiple streams and lakes that historically don't even have successful natural reproduction. I will say that I was a bit thrown off by the fact that a seasoned vet like mike would not have come prepared with adequate lb. test for those conditions (current, snags, etc), especially on the first hunt of the season. Snapped lines shouldn't happen if you're prepared. |
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Posts: 71
| Interesting stuff here. Biologically speaking I doubt any real harm is done. Targeting unpaired fish combined with low natural reproduction rates to begin with would really negate any disruptions I would think. Interesting to hear what people who know more about the spawn than I have to say on the topic. Ethically this is apparently a grey area though. Its a real shame they lost that giant at the end too. From my experience I would have to say that their tactics and execution were the reasons they lost it, rather than poor gear. They got some good footage but possibly at the expense of that fish swimming off with a lure in its jaw. Four hands always seem better than two in a situation like that. Hindsight is 20/20. |
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Location: New Carlisle, IN | I thought it was a great episode. I don't understand how people who cast lures that weigh a pound and have multiple treble hooks can ever bash anyone that is practicing catch and release fishing. I'm new to muskie fishing but have saltwater fished professionally and for recreation prior to moving north. The mindset is so different between saltwater fishing and muskie fishing. The holier than thou attitude in Muskie fishing is a huge turnoff for me. I release all freshwater fish I catch but I know that ripping a muskies mouth apart with a huge bull dawg lure is not good for the fish even though it's released. I was under the impression, maybe falsely, that the 80-100 lb test was due to the lures that were being cast and that horsing a fish into the boat in less than 10 seconds was the downside to using that heavy gear. But it seems a lot of Muskie fisherman feel the use of giant tuna tackle is the only ethical way to catch muskie. I was raised quite the opposite way and always taught that the bigger the fish and the lighter the tackle, the more sporting it was. The fish has a better chance to escape. That was probably a mindset from when most fish were kept, but it still the way people saltwater fish today. Maybe I'm wrong for enjoying the thrill of the hook set and the quality of the fight it takes to land the fish. I always revive fish I catch and release them when they are healthy. To criticize the host of this show for not using heavy tackle when fish with smaller baits is just crazy to me. Any time a fisherman interacts with a fish, it has a negative impact on that fish. The goal is to minimize that negative impact and release a healthy fish. I feel there are some very hypocritical fisherman on here when they blast someone who is preaching and practicing catch and release. If you don't want to harm the fish, put the rod down and put a mask and fins on. There will be minimal impact on the fish that way. |
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