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Posts: 67
| Agreed! |
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| All we have in Indiana are "small" lakes, and nobody trolling is cleaning out the lakes, and us trollers get along just fine with our casting friends. Trolling is great for folks for back problems! |
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Posts: 67
| No trolling in N WI! |
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| All for trolling. Limit the lines on smaller waters. |
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Posts: 8782
| hambone - 2/26/2013 8:47 PM
All we have in Indiana are "small" lakes, and nobody trolling is cleaning out the lakes, and us trollers get along just fine with our casting friends. Trolling is great for folks for back problems!
Can you say "extensive stocking"?
There is not money, or time, or fish, or bodies on staff to manage stocking in N/WI lakes the eay IN lakes are managed. |
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| yes yes yes YES! |
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Posts: 143
Location: Palatine, IL | No. |
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Posts: 8782
| No. I'll agree that it's largely based on "tradition", but some traditions are best left alone. A big part of the allure of N/WI lkaes is the complete lack of other anglers. And many of those anglers boycott those lakes in Vilas because they can't troll, or because they don't wat to abide by the restrictive "no wake" rules after 4:00 pm or before 10:00 am. Those lakes are empty and quiet and unfished because that's how the locals WANT them to be. And that's a big part of what makes them great. |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI |
No, not as it's written.
Regarding the earlier comment about Wisconsin being "backwards", when this B.S. mining bill passes it will officially be true.
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Posts: 20219
Location: oswego, il | There is no guarentee that just anyone can toss 3 lined in the water and start catching fish. Good trollers will catch fish bad ones wont no,different than the casters. |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | I keep seeing those arguing for trolling that us against it are worried about the fish population declining as a result of trolling. Where are you guys arguing this fact getting that idea? I know I didn’t say “I am against it because there will be no fish left”. Although I am willing to wager it will hurt several fisheries if trolling was opened up, but I am not talking muskies. The walleye fisheries will take a beating. While the musky guys are mostly C&R, most walleye guys are not. Most of our walleye fisheries have been hurt by overharvest by anglers (not Native Americans), and the trolling would only fuel that overharvest even more.
Back to muskies. I believe most of us against it are for the reason of small waters. It is already an issue of guys breaking the law and running 6-9 suckers off the side of the boat, and working up and down a breakline with no regard for anyone else. I run into it every year in Vilas, and have a few choice words for them when they work past me crowding me on the spot I am working. Make it legal and you will have many more doing that with suckers in the fall.
For sure there are lakes I would love to troll for some suspended giants, but feel if trolling was allowed on the small waters it will just cause a lot of confrontation amongst anglers that are not courteous. Ever try fishing the Fox River in Green Bay before the Bay itself got popular? Quite common for guys to be yelling at each other due to trolling to close, and quite common I had to quit casting the rip rap when a troller decided to move past me and the shore. Then I would get yelled at when I launched a cast into their lines!
Perhaps I am just unlucky, but I have had enough run ins already on waters that can be trolled in WI to have a bad taste in my mouth by those that are not courteous and troll on by me. Thought my dad was going to jump out of the boat years back on Franklin Lake when we were walleye fishing and two guys trolling right by on top of us. ;(
Allow it on the larger lakes where there is more room. Too many issue will arise on the smaller lakes with guys not being courteous. |
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Posts: 176
Location: Tomahawk, WI | No No No |
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Location: Madison, WI | Allow it on the larger lakes where there is more room. Too many issue will arise on the smaller lakes with guys not being courteous.
Travis...you provide a number of example where you are the one creating and/or escalating conflict: throwing some "choice words" or "casting into their lines" is just as discourteous as trolling too close to someone. if you don't want conflict with other people, don't contribute to it.
i've had way more times when i've been cut-off or some other poor fishing etiquette situation from someone casting than from someone trolling.
the small lake argument isn't based on evidence. and what evidence there is suggests it would be just fine. for example, guys motor-trolling on tiny Wingra in Madison or dragging suckers on narrow Twin Valley somehow manage to get along with the other trollers and shoreline casters.
yes, there are idiots out there who aren't considerate of others. whether they're trolling or casting, it's a small minority of the total number of people fishing and just something we have to deal with. the sky isn't falling.
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Posts: 580
| I hope this gets passed.
I don't believe the "small waters" argument is a valid one. Motor trolling is permitted on small muskie lakes in Ashland, Bayfield, Barron, Burnett, Chippewa, Dane, Douglas, Eau Claire, Lafayette, Polk, Price, Rusk, Taylor and Washburn counties. There are a ton of muskie lakes under 1,000 acres in those counties, some of which get hit pretty hard and there doesn't seem to be any problems associated with trolling on those waters. So, why would it be a problem elsewhere?
I just don't like the concept of restricted fishing/hunting rights by regulations that serve zero legitimate purpose. And yes, the semantics of the trolling vs. position fishing law is really quite absurd if you really think about it.
But my guess is that this won't pass. There are too many folks believe that N WI is the one place on the planet where anglers can't be courteous on small waters, where muskies are more likely to die if hooked by trolled crankbaits, and where wilderness aesthetics are ruined by the appearance of planer boards. |
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| lambeau - 2/27/2013 8:04 AM
. if you don't want conflict with other people, don't contribute to it.
So? Just quietly submit to their oafishness?
Some of the dumbest posts ever seen on the boards always end up on the trolling arguments.
Really lambeau, so you think rude should rule?? That is what you are saying here. |
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Location: Madison, WI | Really lambeau, so you think rude should rule?? That is what you are saying here.
wrong. i'm saying rudeness isn't the answer to rudeness. casting a lure at someone's boat or lines doesn't accomplish anything beyond peeing the other guy off too...who most likely doesn't even realize he did something "wrong."
if you really want to deal with something like that, meet the guy at the landing and tactfully explain to him how trolling too close to you is poor etiquette. ask him to be more polite in the future, don't chuck a lure at him.
simple, direct, and it doesn't end up with people shouting "choice words" at each other across the lake and disturbing that sacred northern WI feel...
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | if you want to troll small lakes, go to Ashland, Bayfield, Barron, Burnett, Chippewa, Dane, Douglas, Eau Claire, Lafayette, Polk, Price, Rusk, Taylor and Washburn counties.
if you really love to multi-line troll go salmon fishing ... it's a hoot and a great thing to do in july and august when the water gets warm.
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Posts: 134
| No - we have been down this slope before when they allowed back trolling. People and I know of some guides were using pontoon boats with three lines out per person and five people on the float. More fish were harvested and killed. The DNR abolished the idea after two years. Unless this state gets wise and puts a fifty inch limit on all muskies state wide I'm totally against. Especially trolling in Vilas and Onieda Co. |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | The cast is a result of the other boat not thinking they are all that close when confronted through a polite confrontation. The cast always makes it clear they are wrong. In some cases it has been a flip type cast!
“Few Choice Words”… Perhaps I should have worded that statement differently the first time. I usually confront them without calling them any vulgar names, or the use of profanity in an attempt to keep it civil as it doesn’t help if you escalate the situation as you mentioned.
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | Jet skis should be allowed in the BWCA. There's no real logical scientific data that suggests jet skis would do any more harm in that area than any other. Darn backwards Northern Minnesotans and their stupid non jet ski allowing traditions! |
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| Don't you guys think this could actually help the economy in Vilas/Oneida? Herbie and the boys seemed to get along pretty well in the trolling days. |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | dh buc - 2/27/2013 8:49 AM
No - we have been down this slope before when they allowed back trolling. People and I know of some guides were using pontoon boats with three lines out per person and five people on the float. More fish were harvested and killed. The DNR abolished the idea after two years. Unless this state gets wise and puts a fifty inch limit on all muskies state wide I'm totally against. Especially trolling in Vilas and Onieda Co.
That seems like pretty good evidence to me on why not to pass it. Keep in mind that this just doesn't affect musky, and in those days lots of big walleyes were kept as well.
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Posts: 20219
Location: oswego, il | Portaging a jet ski in the bwca would be fun. So the aarguements are people are worried about ediquette and others the fishery. I just dont see it changing. Bad fisherman are going to continue to be bad fisherman, the rude ones will continue to be rude. I dont see a change in the law creating better and/or more rude fisherman. |
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| Lots of people looking at this through their own limited microscope and not seeing the big picture.
#1 Most fishing regs are based on tradition, not science. Science does not care how you fish, where you fish, or when you fish. Science is perfectly satisfied if you dynamite your fish, net, spear, poison or pump the lake dry and corral them. It is tradition that dictates methods and equipment, not anything related to science. Science checks population, estimates sustainable harvest, overharvest, need to protect spawning areas, spawning fish, or fry production. A dead fish is a dead fish regardless of its cause of demise. This is simple stuff when you look at it.
Most regs are NOT scientific in any way. We could all troll or net or poison or spear, as long as we observe sustainability of the resource, scientifically, we are all good.
#2 My regs are more open minded and with it than yours?? Once again a big myth. Trolling or not trolling, neither one is more reasonable than the other. Neither is better or worse, but to hear people tell it, trolling is enlightened and not trolling is backward??? Not true in any sense at all. Trolling is tradition in MN, not trolling is a tradition in WI, but neither is enlightened, or an intrinsically BETTER TRADITION. You guys get this confused a LOT!! Lots of opinions on this but very little science is involved.
#3 Some lakes have populations that will be very susceptible to trolling pressure when it is brought to bear by guides with clients, fisherman, and the opinion that the client or fisherperson, has the right to keep a fish if he wants to. Already happened in northern WI once, and potentially will happen again. NOT all lakes, just some lakes are susceptible, and some trophy fisheries are potential victims of a change in trolling regs, due to the impact on the trophy class of fish that have a sort of open water safe haven under current regs.
#4 Small lakes with limited, but trophy sized populations, loose both their trophy status and their esthetic, when trollers come in and start harvesting. And this will not be a loss of esthetics for all fisherman, just some of us. Those of you who live in IL, IN, Iowa, well, FIB is not a myth, and it will seem just like home to you guys. I like to get on a small quet lake and cast away, and not have boats buzzing up and down and around while I am doing it. There are a LOT of small lakes in the no trolling areas in WI now. Some of them exceptional. There are not a lot of exceptional small lakes in the trolling zones.
#5 I would hate to see flowages not currently being trolled, to be trolled in the future. No, it won't depopulate the lakes, but it will uglify them in a big way.
#6 As pointed out, the walleye impact may be much greater than the musky impact from trolling regs. This is the musky forum, and we are only viewing a limited slice of the impact with muskies. Hard to believe that the universe does not orbit around us, but....
#7 Trolling is about making it easier to catch fish. My fishing shows me that trolling is more effective on a per hour basis than casting and yields bigger fish. Many will make the argument that trolling is difficult blah dah dah. Nonsense. Trolling is easy, and not rocket science, nor a sweaty workout in the boat. Netting makes it easier to catch fish, and netting during spawning season makes it EVEN EASIER, so why not allow those methods? Because they make it TOO EASY OR BECAUSE OF TRADITION??
#8 The one line per angler vs 3 lines per angler is a big trigger issue I think. There are a lot of anti trollers that probably could be convinced to allow trolling if this were put on the basis ONE MAN ONE LINE. A more controllable chaos on a small lake or weedline, and yet the choice is there for guys to run suckers if they want, or pairing up, run a sucker and cast, each in turn. In cold weather that would be pretty workable, and if three guys go out, both action and casting can be in play.
#9 At some point, it is a viable choice to decide that things have been made easy enough, and to retain some difficulty in the chase, capture and release of this particular game fish. Better tackle, rods, reels, boats, electronics, maps and mapping devices, education. You can argue that you want to make fishing easier, and that can be an interesting argument, but I think on the flip side, retaining potential difficulties, and tradition is also a valid argument. I don't think one side of the argument is potentially loaded up in favor of anyone. I certainly see the value of esthetics and deep water refuge for the smaller lakes of northern WI as being a valid and supportable argument, particularly in light of the number and range of trolling waters already available in the state.
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | FSF - 2/27/2013 9:28 AM
#7 Trolling is about making it easier to catch fish. My fishing shows me that trolling is more effective on a per hour basis than casting and yields bigger fish. Many will make the argument that trolling is difficult blah dah dah. Nonsense. Trolling is easy, and not rocket science, nor a sweaty workout in the boat. Netting makes it easier to catch fish, and netting during spawning season makes it EVEN EASIER, so why not allow those methods? Because they make it TOO EASY OR BECAUSE OF TRADITION??
^my favorite ... well put! ... bonus to reading the whole thing is adding the new word "uglify" to my vocabulary.
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Posts: 566
Location: Elgin, IL | I like item #8 and I agree, the 3 lines seems a bit much....so let's compromise.
On the other hand, I wouldn't get too worked up over this issue quite yet. How long did it take for folks up there to realize that single-hook rigs with the patented swallow method was bad? 
That also was a "tradition"....and very, very easy.
Edited by Northwind Mark 2/27/2013 9:44 AM
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | trolling and single hook ... good correlation
i agree |
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | Yes, get this asinine law off the books off the books once and for all. One of the highest concentrations of lakes in the country and you can't move your boat with a lure/bait in the water. Time to step out of the stone age, but not to worry, it won't happen. The bar-stool crowd will show up and vote it down, mark my words.
JS |
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Posts: 20219
Location: oswego, il | FSF, your pretty good fisherman and know how to troll if you so choose. My point has been that just because you can put a line or lines out and drag it behind the boat does not guarentee better success. You still have to know what you are doing. I also dont see the law turning everyone into a troller. Me, I am not one for tradition as it much like ideology is often times pounding the square peg into a round hole. I wouldlike to be able to drag a sucker along when I cast and have the option troll if I want. I would not have an issue making it one line if that got it passed.
Edited by ToddM 2/27/2013 9:58 AM
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | J.Sloan - 2/27/2013 9:56 AM
Yes, get this asinine law off the books off the books once and for all. One of the highest concentrations of lakes in the country and you can't move your boat with a lure/bait in the water. Time to step out of the stone age, but not to worry, it won't happen. The bar-stool crowd will show up and vote it down, mark my words.
JS
i'll buy you a beer j ... :0) |
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