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| Thanks for the discussion, I am new to Muskie fishing and did not realize the danger to big fish in hot weather. It would be nice if Muskie lakes had some info at boat launches explaining the merits of catch and release along with the danger to fish when water is hot. I did fish in warm water this past week and had I known of the risk for Muskies I would have fished for bass. Some of us are just learning and looking for advice and best practice to preserve the Muskie resource. I just found this forum and wil be reading it regularly. |
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| Excerpt from published scientific paper (the muskie catch-and-release study aka Project Noble Beast).
"The present study revealed that increases in water temperature caused significant increases in blood glucose and plasma potassium concentrations for muskellunge relative to angling at cooler temperatures....The observed glucose concentration increases may be attributed to increased standard metabolic rates that rise as water temperatures warm (Dickson and Kramer, 1971; Cooke et al., 2001)....This particular response [elevated potassium concentrations] is of interest because potassium cations influence nerve function (Hidaka and Toida, 1969; Abe and Oka, 1999) and elevated potassium levels (i.e., hyperkalemia) can contribute to cardiac failure in mammals (Guyton, 1981; Lindinger, 1995)....Because most muskellunge angling occurs in the warm summer months (Kerr, 2007a), the potentially lethal effects of increased potassium concentrations and their relation to cardiac failure is of concern. Evidence from this study clearly indicates the propensity for physiological disturbance to increase with increasing water temperatures. Therefore, it is advisable to be cautious of the magnitude of stress imposed on muskellunge (e.g., severely limit air exposure and angling durations) when angling during periods of high water temperatures. |
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| There are mn lakes that don't always have the right stuff for natural reproduction so I would listen to your own advice. |
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Location: Illinois | Guest - 7/9/2012 7:40 PM Would someone please explain why the biologists think that 79.5 degrees is ok for Muskie fishing but 80.0 degrees is not? there is an inverse relationship between dissolved Oxygen content and water temperature. No biologist is defining 80 degrees, or any specific number as the breaking point for successful release. They instead are offering 80 degrees as a general rule of thumb to guide the catch and release community at large. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | i see lots of guys aren't taking any of the advice on here and still fishing in the MN Metro lakes....what gives? those lakes HAVE to be over 80...? |
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Location: Apple Valley | BNelson - 7/10/2012 7:28 AM
i see lots of guys aren't taking any of the advice on here and still fishing in the MN Metro lakes....what gives? those lakes HAVE to be over 80...?
Way over 80! I was fishing a metro lake yesterday for crappies and water temp was 86 and climbing. A co-worker texted me last night and saw 3 floaters on Tonka yesterday while he was tubing.
Brian |
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Dead ones showing up on Big Detroit too.
2 over 50" have washed up on shore since the 4th of July that I know of.
I'm sure it's just coincidence. Hot water doesn't hurt fish anymore than ciggs cause cancer I've been told.
JS |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I don't get musky guys...why do some feel the 'need' to fish with sustained water temps well into the 80s..? We cancelled our league in madison well over a week ago until most likely end of august as we know high water temps are not smart to fish in... I know another league in MN that cancelled their weekly outing this week from high water temps but there are still guys posting fish on here and in the muskies inc lunge log from lakes that have been and are over 80... yah John those floaters we all are seeing must just be heat stroke! there were a number of floaters in Madison 10 days ago and one was 49"... pretty sad some feel the need to fish.... ignorance is bliss..... i guess.
Edited by BNelson 7/10/2012 8:25 AM
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| muskellunged - 7/10/2012 12:30 AM
Guest - 7/9/2012 7:40 PM Would someone please explain why the biologists think that 79.5 degrees is ok for Muskie fishing but 80.0 degrees is not? there is an inverse relationship between dissolved Oxygen content and water temperature. No biologist is defining 80 degrees, or any specific number as the breaking point for successful release. They instead are offering 80 degrees as a general rule of thumb to guide the catch and release community at large.
Which biologist(s)? Is there any link or reference you could provide? |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i spend half my life in MN and the other half in N. Wisco ... night and day difference to the heat and effect of the latest weather. MN got hammered by the heat and for a much longer period of time, N. Wisco got 5-6 days of it from about the 1st - 6th where overnight temps. were high 60's - low 70's.
up here now it really depends on what lake and what time of day/night you fish. dark water i'd steer clear of, but there are lakes with reasonable temps.. 80 deg. at noon is cooling to 75-76 at night.
sounds like Mad-town is still a cooker ...
i'll be out again tonight doing some prop testing and expect temps. to be even more stable ... it was cold again last night. sweatshirt weather after 9pm.. so, if you are fishing this coming weekend, i do suggest you head to N. Wisco. only problem is we don't have any big fish /: |
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| I think it is mostly newbies to the sport who don't yet realize the dangers of fishing in high water temps. After they catch enough fish they will learn eventually...unfortunately it will come with a price. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | I don't suppose anyone besides muskie fisherman are hooking these fish that end up as floaters. It wouldn't make any sense that someone fishing with light gear is accidentally hooking these fish and playing them out, right? Maybe we can get bass and walleye guys to just snip the line when they feel a big tug.
Heck if the planet gets any hotter we'll just reverse the seasons. November 30th through May 1st. Shut er down before the spawn. |
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Unfortunatley it is not mostly newbies.
Our league is cancelled until further notice. Water temps here have been 82-86 degrees 24/7 since the 4th.
Good thing is from what I hear the bite has sucked. The water got to hot to fast in our area. That usually is a big turnoff for muskies.
JS |
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Posts: 619
| BNelson - 7/10/2012 7:28 AM
i see lots of guys aren't taking any of the advice on here and still fishing in the MN Metro lakes....what gives? those lakes HAVE to be over 80...?
Yep, you see pics being posted on this site and guys are out fishing metro lakes still. The fishing has already certainly declined over the past few yrs, but watch it really decline now. Soon there wont be much left to fish for. You wouldnt believe the pressure on some metro lakes. I would say there are now more muskie boats than bass boats on these metro lakes now. |
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Posts: 1039
| I live pretty close to Smokeys Musky Shop on Pewaukee Lake.
I have to hand it to the musky fishermen as there are very few rigs down there that are fishing boats. There are usually 6-10 rigs at that landing when I leave for work. There were none on Monday and one this morning. Looks like a lot of guys around here have hung up the sticks for a while.
I haven't been out in about two weeks, but the gills left the pier about a week ago. I won't go out until they are back. I am, however, going to drown some worms with my best friend's 7 year old on Thursday.
Milwaukee Chapter of Muskies Inc has cancelled the outing for Friday until the water cools down.
Big "thank you" to everyone around Milwaukee who has hung up the musky rods for a while. |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Is this just a metro area lakes issue, or is the water temps the same all over MN right now? |
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Location: Illinois | Guest - 7/10/2012 8:34 AM muskellunged - 7/10/2012 12:30 AM Guest - 7/9/2012 7:40 PM Would someone please explain why the biologists think that 79.5 degrees is ok for Muskie fishing but 80.0 degrees is not? there is an inverse relationship between dissolved Oxygen content and water temperature. No biologist is defining 80 degrees, or any specific number as the breaking point for successful release. They instead are offering 80 degrees as a general rule of thumb to guide the catch and release community at large. Which biologist (s )? Is there any link or reference you could provide? I'm not a search engine. The articles and information I found are readily available on the internet, some even on this website's search engine.
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| Another point is just because the fsih swims away at the time of release does not mean it is going to be fine. Delayed mortality is real and many of these "floaters" swam away just fine. it is our responsibility as conservation minded anglers to do the right thing...20+ years ago this discussion was about releasing a muskie and how foriegn was that argument...we have come a long ways but let's continue to do the right thing to protect this resource that we have all come to enjoy so much.
Brett W |
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Posts: 619
| CiscoKid - 7/10/2012 10:44 AM
Is this just a metro area lakes issue, or is the water temps the same all over MN right now?
Pretty much just metro for the most part. The good thing is the fishing really was slow before the heat wave and guessing the guys still fishing are not catching much, at least I hope so or trying to pull them from deep water. |
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| muskellunged - 7/10/2012 12:30 AM
Guest - 7/9/2012 7:40 PM Would someone please explain why the biologists think that 79.5 degrees is ok for Muskie fishing but 80.0 degrees is not? there is an inverse relationship between dissolved Oxygen content and water temperature. No biologist is defining 80 degrees, or any specific number as the breaking point for successful release. They instead are offering 80 degrees as a general rule of thumb to guide the catch and release community at large.
Really got to stop talking about dissolved oxygen, it rarely has anything to do with it as DO levels are no lower at 80 degrees than they are in the fall. Simple heat stress is what kills the fish, rarely do dissolved oxygen levels get low enough in the summer to kill fish.
Nice article about pike kills: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/161848055.html#!page=1&pageSiz... |
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Location: Illinois | I understand that DO levels can dip dangerously low during cooler temperatures, yet I don't own a tool that can give me dissolved oxygen readings. I can however, read surface temps on the locator. Every lake is different in terms of DO fluctuation, and several variables can affect their levels. I don't discount the heat stress, nor have I. To me, it is the combining of the heat stress, the lactic acid buildup, AND the low DO levels that chases me away from chasing the muskies in hot water. From my understanding, the fish need the oxygen to fight away the lactic acid, which if the fish is not allowed to regulate can become fatal to the fish. I may not have a phd in fisheries biology, and I don't pretend to, I am merely using the tools and information at my disposal to make the decisions that leave less of a footprint on the musky fisheries I fish, period http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03334.htm
Edited by muskellunged 7/10/2012 1:13 PM
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| muskellunged - 7/10/2012 1:09 PM
I understand that DO levels can dip dangerously low during cooler temperatures, yet I don't own a tool that can give me dissolved oxygen readings. I can however, read surface temps on the locator. Every lake is different in terms of DO fluctuation, and several variables can affect their levels. I don't discount the heat stress, nor have I. To me, it is the combining of the heat stress, the lactic acid buildup, AND the low DO levels that chases me away from chasing the muskies in hot water. From my understanding, the fish need the oxygen to fight away the lactic acid, which if the fish is not allowed to regulate can become fatal to the fish. I may not have a phd in fisheries biology, and I don't pretend to, I am merely using the tools and information at my disposal to make the decisions that leave less of a footprint on the musky fisheries I fish, period http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03334.htm
According to the buoy, surface temps on Lake Mendota have been around 85 F and DO levels are around 9ppm (highest I've seen is 12). Typically in the fall, DO levels dip to 3-4 ppm. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | so what did the floaters on Waubesa in Madison die from??....oh yah, being caught in HOT water.... dead floating muskies on Metro Lakes in MN,, Madison lakes...etc, must just be a coincedence then that the temps are 80+ and dead muskies show up? that's all the proof a true sportsman should need....but whatever....bluegils are biting boys.
Edited by BNelson 7/10/2012 2:33 PM
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | I think musky fishing should be shut down from May through August, especially with global warming. Water temps in May are going to increase like the globe. Musky fishing season should run from September through November. That's it. |
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| Did you read the jsonline article bn? DNR says pike are dying from the heat, not DO. Stress + heat is enough to kill the fish, nothing to do with dissolved oxygen. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | i'm not saying it has anything to do with DO "guest"...just saying it's obvious guys should stop fishing for them with the high water temps but some out there need to justify why they can ..... sad.
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Posts: 317
| There have been fish kills here in N. IL on some of the shallower lakes. Seen some some very large Pike floating. Water was in the mid to upper 80's last week, but now have fallen to around 80. |
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Posts: 576
Location: WI | porterhouse - 7/10/2012 7:43 AM
BNelson - 7/10/2012 7:28 AM
i see lots of guys aren't taking any of the advice on here and still fishing in the MN Metro lakes....what gives? those lakes HAVE to be over 80...?
Way over 80! I was fishing a metro lake yesterday for crappies and water temp was 86 and climbing. A co-worker texted me last night and saw 3 floaters on Tonka yesterday while he was tubing.
Brian
Was out on Tonka Sunday evening and the distinct sound of double-10s klanking could be heard all around. I wondered out loud to my wife how many floaters would be out the next couple days. The air cooled some but it's going to take a heck of a lot more to cool these lakes down. |
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| I have never killed a musky or a northern in over 80 degree temps. You all talk a big game, but has any of you done it? Probably not... I'm going to fish untill something happens. Quick pic and back in the water they go. If it was such an issue why wouldnt they just shut down musky fishing during these times if its such a harmful thing? |
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| wow, more ignorance....ever hear of delayed mortality STEVEN? |
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