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Posts: 32945
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | A bad knot or bad spot in the line or line too light for the application isn't the sucker's responsibility.
At $10 a pop what end of the line is the sucker on?  |
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| What would happen if live bait fishing for muskies was entirely banned? Impact on fishery?
What about doing so on selected lakes?
What if all live bait fishing was banned on certain lakes? |
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Posts: 32945
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If everyone was using J 'kill/swallow' hooks, a ban would help immensely. Very few still do. Since quick strike rigs are designed for CPR, the effect would be minimal because anglers would still fish muskies with other presentations. |
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Posts: 541
| could be one angler in particular that is on the fish out there and is responsible even |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | leech lake strain - 10/23/2011 12:39 PM
could be one angler in particular that is on the fish out there and is responsible even
Yeah, maybe we should start a witch hunt. I'll get my pitch fork, you get the torches! |
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Posts: 97
Location: Milwaukee, WI | Properly used, live bait fishing is no more dangerous than any other form of fishing.
Fishing is a predatory activity. If you fish muskies long enough, you will injure and/or kill a fish, whether you cast, troll, fish live bait, or vertical jig over open water. If that bothers you, you should stop fishing all together.
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Posts: 432
Location: Eagan, MN | I don't think anyone who has caught a significant number of fish (on any method) can claim they've never killed one... if you've caught a bunch, you've killed a few. Delayed mortality is real. I don't care how good the fished looked when it swam away.
As for live bait... well I think it's pretty obvious that there is a greater potential for throat/gut hooking. Whether that potential is realized depends on the angler.
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Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin | sworrall - 10/22/2011 12:06 PM
If everyone was using J 'kill/swallow' hooks, a ban would help immensely. Very few still do. Since quick strike rigs are designed for CPR, the effect ( of a live bait ban) would be minimal because anglers would still fish muskies with other presentations.
I have to disagree. I know anglers here in Wisconsin, who catch most of their annual catch of muskies on suckers. I know of many more anglers her in Wisconsin, who catch most of their Oct. and Nov. muskies, on suckers. If suckers were banned in Northern WI, where trolling is illegal, the muskie catch rate and thus the mortality rate would drop dramatically. I am saying ~75 per cent of muskies caught in northern WI, after Oct 1st are caught on suckers. That is 3 out of 4.
Quick set rigs "IF USED PROPERLY", work great as a C & R bait. The trouble is many do not use them properly. If an angler misses a strike on a sucker, the next time he waits longer. They wait too long before they set the hook. A 45+ inch muskie can inhale a 12 " sucker in seconds. IMO, any time, a bait is used where there is any delay between the strike and setting the hook, there is more of a possibility, of deep hooking the muskie.
Plain and simple, if a muskie needs to live 15+ years to reach trophy size, and it only encounters one sucker rig per fall, in northern Wisconsin's rather smallish lakes, you had better hope and pray all 15 anglers using those quick set rigs, USED THEM PROPERLY. I personally feel, many muskies are caught numerous times per year, here in WI.
John Aschenbrenner
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Posts: 32945
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Disagree all you want. Most Muskie anglers fish live bait Quick Strike rigs responsibly, and you should celebrate that Quick strike rigs have replaced J hooks. If someone is NOT fishing a quick strike rig correctly, then correction and education is in order. |
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Posts: 167
| thats because people need to use atleast 130 pound for live bait riggin because of the shear shock of the hook sets. Its just like the people that i see throwing cowgirls with spinning rods and too light of tackle in the metro! People just need to be a little better educated................but u are always gunna have newbies trying things out so i dont personally think you will ever get away from dying fish. Teach to the best of your abilities and sights like this one when people ask questions about techniques or riggings answer them dont just think ohhh thats dumb. Pass on knowledge and gain knowledge thats what this sport is all about. Now im not saying giving away spots or lakes.............just smart information. Just my opinion. |
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| You MN fisherman really do have a bug up ur butt about this dont you. Would you also like guns, alcohol, and vehicles banned because they cause deaths as well? I am guessing probably not. None of these things cause deaths, irresponsible use of these things can cause deaths however the answer to this problem is simply education. With the right rig sucker fishing is literally one of the safest ways to catch a musky. |
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| We trick them into eating stuff that's not food. That stuff has anywhere from 1-3 treble hooks on it, that we sharpen to the point where you can barely handle it yourself. And as soon as they eat it, we slam those hooks into their faces with all of our might, senting them through bone, flesh, gills, tongues and cartilage alike.
Then we reel them in while they fight with all of their strength, net them, and pull those same hooks out with pliers while holding their heads out of water. Then, we hoist them of their environment, where they are unable to breathe, after what is likely the most traumatic and life threatining experience they have ever had. And we take pictures of them. Then we put them back in the water, while holding them by their tail, which they need and would use if not for sheer exhaustion.
Does the method by which we catch them in this particular case REALLY matter??
Inexperienced anglers are doing all SORTS of things, from improper release tools, to small nets, to no nets at all, to spending 5 miutes trying to get the hooks out, laying them in the boat, DROPPING them in the boat, taking 15 pictures on a hot day, throwing them back in the water, not keeping them upright, fishing in hot weather, cutting the line, leaving jogs and samll crankbaits in their mouths...
Why should we outlaw a method that thousands of dedicated anglers use with great success? Because a few folks who don't know any better might kill a fish? If they're doing that kind of damage with QS rigs, they're doing it anywhere they fish, with everything they fish with, any time they catch one.
Maybe we ought to just outlaw musky fishing all together for anyone who has been at it less than 5 years. Or better yet? NO NEW ANGLERS. If you're not fishing for them now? You can't. It's illegal. Or how about a muskie license? $50 for the year, just to fish for muskies. And you have to pass a 2 hour 100 question essay test on proper fishing methods and release techniques. Oh and you must prove that you have all the latest and greatest release tools, and sign an addadavit stating that you will not, under any circumstances, take any fish under 45" out of the water for any reason, and will never, under any circumstances take a fish out of the water and hold it for a picture unless you are able to do so in 10 seconds. No live bait, noo hooks with barbs, no taking fish out of the water, no fishing when the water is warm, or within 1 month of the spawm, whether they reproduce in your area or not. And while we're at it, how about a 2 fish limit per season? You catch two, you're done. Maybe a mandatory tithe of 5% of your income for life, to be allocated to stocking of new fisheries??? One line per person, one rod in the boat, and only one hook per lure? Maybe we should mandate that after you see a follow you must quit fishing for 48 hours. Why, you might have scared that fish to death! I wonder if we can enroll them in muskie therapy, so after you catch them we can sure they aren't afriad to eat, and that the trauma doesn't prevent them from living normal muskie lives??
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Posts: 366
| While this discussion began about Minnesota and Wisconsin lakes where the average muskie angler knowledge is among the highest in the country, this simply isn’t the case for the rest of the country. I only mention this because many of the posts and points are addressing other anglers questioning the methods directly, single hook rigs are not illegal everywhere and I would venture a guess that +90% of anglers still use them here in TN. Most people here targeting muskies have never even heard of a quick strike rig. Preaching education and correction over outlawing methods is great when the majority of the muskie anglers are knowledgeable and use quick strike rigs properly, but discussions like that only result in more dead muskies in TN every year as the minority few experienced muskie anglers try to work toward regulation changes as the education process creeps along. I’m talking about significant percentages of the muskie population, not just a couple gut hooked floaters a year. There are plenty of photos of monofilament hanging out of their throats.
There are tons of regulations and enforcement on guns, alcohol, and vehicles because of the dangers of improperly using them. None of that really matters as it’s an apples-oranges analogy, and has little bearing on how fishing regulations should be considered.
From what I’ve experienced the majority of the TWRA, especially the upper level decision makers have less understanding and knowledge about muskie fishery management at this point than the average muskie fisherman in MN or WS, and they look what your states have done and are doing to address the issues we have. Unfortunately, as I’ve explained the issues the fisheries here face are apples-oranges to what happens in the north, but that doesn’t keep the same arguments you guys are bringing forth from being used against the efforts to protect and create the fisheries in TN. I’m sure most other states are somewhere between these two ends of the spectrum, so just be glad that honestly feel like the method abusers and fish killers are in the minority and not the majority whom destroy the fishing opportunities of all anglers, new and old.
Ryan
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Location: Hartford Wi | Don't fish its that easy!!!!! I have caught tons of fish on suckers and on baits most of the hooksets have been worse on lures than live bait. So DONT presume its sucker rigs that are killing the fish!!!! |
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Posts: 11
| EA - 10/25/2011 11:27 PM
Maybe we should mandate that after you see a follow you must quit fishing for 48 hours. Why, you might have scared that fish to death!
That's what I do now.... I still don't get the push to catch these slimy things. Follows > Catch |
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Posts: 3160
| actually I think we should carry small hypo needles with a couple ounces of serum so we can vaccinate muskies against tetanus from rusty hooks after caught |
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Posts: 3915
| I hate the Muskie Police. |
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Posts: 86
| Louis - 10/24/2011 12:42 PM
Properly used, live bait fishing is no more dangerous than any other form of fishing.
Fishing is a predatory activity. If you fish muskies long enough, you will injure and/or kill a fish, whether you cast, troll, fish live bait, or vertical jig over open water. If that bothers you, you should stop fishing all together.
Amen...great post! |
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| I'm so tired of such foolish talk. Way more muskies die every year from anglers that use art. baits then there is those killed by those that use suckers. My god we are going to good guy about every little thing till they us to stop putting hooks on baits. Just be glad we can still fish and enjoy it. |
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Posts: 91
Location: Knoxville, TN | Down here in TN the new method guys use is rainbow trout with single hooks with monofilament on muskies that pile up into a really small areas. They cut off lots of fish and you see lots of dead muskies floating in certain areas but our DNR (TWRA) does nothing about it. Ryan is right, down here we are trying to protect what we have as nearly every fish on Melton Hill piles up into a 5 acre cove and are really preyed upon by everybody. It's really sad that TWRA allows these live bait guys to gut hook muskies. If you fellas could offer any advice or suggestions, feel free to email me [email protected]. |
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI |
If suckers were banned in Northern WI, where trolling is illegal, the muskie catch rate and thus the mortality rate would drop dramatically.
John Aschenbrenner
While you're at it may as well ban night fishing in the summer, catch rate will drop and so will mortality. Soft plastics have a tendency to be inhaled, ban that too. Drop the catch rate any way possible.
Always blame the technique, not the uneducated user. Typical.
JS |
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Posts: 3915
| Ban the muskie police and all the problems will drift away. Turtles gotta eat, too. |
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Posts: 152
| use the right rigs and you will cut down the number of dead muskies. Things do happen like cheap leaders breaking or say a bobber gets a plug made from something laying around the boat and the line gets cut but i have caught a large amount of sucker muskies and every single one that found the bottom of the bag swam off with no problems . 5 dead seems crazy high and it almost seem intentional . I would almost bet these fish met the same uneducated person and this person needs a talking to |
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| sworrall - 10/25/2011 6:18 PM
Disagree all you want. Most Muskie anglers fish live bait Quick Strike rigs responsibly, and you should celebrate that Quick strike rigs have replaced J hooks. If someone is NOT fishing a quick strike rig correctly, then correction and education is in order.
This is BS
Musky Hunter episodes and articles, fishing with suckers...are teaching to not to set the hook immediately. First, slowly and calmly walk back to the rod so you don't spoke the fish. Second pick up the rod a "feel for the fish". Next ask partner to slowly move the boat over the fish. 4th...reel up the slack...make sure the fish is still there. 5 Set the hook.
Thats plenty of time for a 50 to engulf a 12-18 inch sucker and end up as turtle food.
They are called quick stike rigs for a reason. Their intended use is in their name. The same with fishing an artificial...get a bite set the hook instantaneously. I have used them, I weight them, set the bait to depth, hold the rod a slowly move along the area I want to fish with the TM. When one hits I set the hook...don't ever recall missing more than a couple. |
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Posts: 80
| Guest - 11/2/2011 4:41 PM
sworrall - 10/25/2011 6:18 PM
Disagree all you want. Most Muskie anglers fish live bait Quick Strike rigs responsibly, and you should celebrate that Quick strike rigs have replaced J hooks. If someone is NOT fishing a quick strike rig correctly, then correction and education is in order.
This is BS
Musky Hunter episodes and articles, fishing with suckers...are teaching to not to set the hook immediately. First, slowly and calmly walk back to the rod so you don't spoke the fish. Second pick up the rod a "feel for the fish". Next ask partner to slowly move the boat over the fish. 4th...reel up the slack...make sure the fish is still there. 5 Set the hook.
Thats plenty of time for a 50 to engulf a 12-18 inch sucker and end up as turtle food.
They are called quick stike rigs for a reason. Their intended use is in their name. The same with fishing an artificial...get a bite set the hook instantaneously. I have used them, I weight them, set the bait to depth, hold the rod a slowly move along the area I want to fish with the TM. When one hits I set the hook...don't ever recall missing more than a couple.
I can do all of those steps in 35 seconds. Never had a sucker inhaled even after a minute. Whats the point of fishing if your not even going to fish? |
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Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI | I love sucker fishing. I set the hook when I'm told.
Kevin |
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Posts: 32945
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Guest - 11/2/2011 4:41 PM
sworrall - 10/25/2011 6:18 PM
Disagree all you want. Most Muskie anglers fish live bait Quick Strike rigs responsibly, and you should celebrate that Quick strike rigs have replaced J hooks. If someone is NOT fishing a quick strike rig correctly, then correction and education is in order.
This is BS
Musky Hunter episodes and articles, fishing with suckers...are teaching to not to set the hook immediately. First, slowly and calmly walk back to the rod so you don't spoke the fish. Second pick up the rod a "feel for the fish". Next ask partner to slowly move the boat over the fish. 4th...reel up the slack...make sure the fish is still there. 5 Set the hook.
Thats plenty of time for a 50 to engulf a 12-18 inch sucker and end up as turtle food.
They are called quick stike rigs for a reason. Their intended use is in their name. The same with fishing an artificial...get a bite set the hook instantaneously. I have used them, I weight them, set the bait to depth, hold the rod a slowly move along the area I want to fish with the TM. When one hits I set the hook...don't ever recall missing more than a couple.
Take that up with MH if you think the wrong educational message is being offered there. Most Muskie anglers fish quick strike rigs responsibly. |
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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | MuskyHopeful - 11/2/2011 6:13 PM
I love sucker fishing. I set the hook when I'm told.
Kevin
And you set it well my friend! |
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Posts: 32945
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It's the pizza. Improves hand to eye coordination, and overall strength. |
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | My buddy just got a 50.5 on sucker, the line got wrapped up in the prop of the trolling motor and hand lined it. Good things since he was not using a sucker.
Troyz |
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