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Location: The desert | Look no further than the sturgeon spearing season in Wisconsin for a model of successful spearing. The sturgeon management is by far the best management the WDNR does. Pretty amazing actually. |
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Location: Bemidji/Cass Lake | It's such a bad precedent of sorts. The government sticks their nose in many issues they have no business attempting to regulate. Why have a DNR if you're not going to listen to them or feel its ok to override them at any time? I'm totally with Steve on this, I don't like this mostly because of how this ban has been lifted. It couldn't have been more devious. Guest you must actually realize that, it'd be mind-boggling if people dont see that. It's disturbing to me to see how easily laws can be manipulated. To have public opinion be against something(twice) and still see it happen ONLY because "public opinion" was then taken away is heinous. That's what happened here. The special session to end the government shutdown was to put people back to work, not push personal agendas through. Or so I thought. I realize I'm not saying anything new about the political world here, just hope others might analyze their views a bit more before the next time they find themselves on the other side of the coin. Getting your way any way possible just seems wrong on an issue like this.
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| In what way do I have to put my money where my mouth is??
I've never been a champion of banning spearing. I'm also not going to work to get current bans lifted. I just don't care if they are lifted.
I'm for management that works in places where it makes sense.
Cass Lake is a trophy lake that should have a slot. That's my opinion, plain and simple. I don't care if you allow spearing there or not.
There are plenty of places to spear, and I know spearers that spear on lakes that currently have slots.
For the record I grew up spearing and have no problems with it.
Regs are to protect fish and ensure healthy populations for the future.
Some people just need to get over themselves and realize that our resources are more important than thier determination not to be regulated like everyone else is.
I think my points have been made and I don't really feel like posting on this subject anymore.
JS
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Sackett - 10/18/2011 11:59 PM
It's such a bad precedent of sorts. The government sticks their nose in many issues they have no business attempting to regulate. Why have a DNR if you're not going to listen to them or feel its ok to override them at any time? I'm totally with Steve on this, I don't like this mostly because of how this ban has been lifted. It couldn't have been more devious. Guest you must actually realize that, it'd be mind-boggling if people dont see that. It's disturbing to me to see how easily laws can be manipulated. To have public opinion be against something(twice) and still see it happen ONLY because "public opinion" was then taken away is heinous. That's what happened here. The special session to end the government shutdown was to put people back to work, not push personal agendas through. Or so I thought. I realize I'm not saying anything new about the political world here, just hope others might analyze their views a bit more before the next time they find themselves on the other side of the coin. Getting your way any way possible just seems wrong on an issue like this.
Personally, I would have to say that the credibility of those working for you at the capitol was one of the biggest reasons that this was handled the way it was.
There is only one thing that I have seen that the MnDNR, muskies Inc, and the Minnesota Darkhouse and Angling Association can agree on. No Darkhouse Spearing bans on new muskie waters (which are the same size and type as the “old waters”) in Minnesota.
muskies Inc’s and the minnnesota muskie alliance’s official position is no bans on new waters, yet what they won’t tell you is that they support the bans on the old waters. It is pretty hard to have any credibility with a position like that.
So you can blame the darkhouse spearers for pushing though bad legislation, you can blame the darkhouse spearers for killing all the big pike in Minnesota (even though the number of darkhouse spearers in Minnesota is well under the combined catch and release mortality rate of the 1.5 million anglers in Minnesota) but at some time you are going to have to face reality and see that it is not all the darkhouse spearers fault.
The way I see it is, muskie fishermen in Minnesota have some choices to make. Continue with the “blame game” or man up realize when you should do the right thing.
The right thing is to remove all darkhouse spearing bans from Minnesota waters.
And just to let you know…. I don’t speak for the Minnesota Darkhouse and Angling Association.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'muskies Inc’s and the minnnesota muskie alliance’s official position is no bans on new waters, yet what they won’t tell you is that they support the bans on the old waters. It is pretty hard to have any credibility with a position like that.'
Perhaps during negotiation with the Darkhouse folks, they took that position. Politics from No More Muskies, the spearing crowd, etc. created the need to compromise on new waters. The behavior of the Minnesota Darkhouse and Angling Association political activists since is well documented here, so again...don't question credibility from a well established position of deceit, OR while hiding behind a monitor, because yours is lost in that practice. Just sayin'.
I fail to see a problem supporting the bans in place that protect trophy fisheries, while agreeing on spearfishing on new waters if that's the clearest and perhaps only path to any chance of acquiring them. The history of the entire debate is here, so everyone here who has followed this knows all the details.
'(even though the number of darkhouse spearers in Minnesota is well under the combined catch and release mortality rate of the 1.5 million anglers in Minnesota'
What kind of logic is that? So many holes in that one it sank immediately.
'So you can blame the darkhouse spearers for pushing though bad legislation'
No, I'm blaming the politicians for running this through when and how it was done. It wasn't clean politics OR what the majority public deserves and indicated at least two times, preferred. It was special interest dirty politics at it's finest. It left a couple politicians in charge of managing Cass Lake. That's a bad precedent. The spear crowd wants Cass. The Muskie and trophy Pike crowd wants it to remain protected. Te spear crowd tried and lost a couple times to ram through special interest legislation and was blocked using proper, open channels. What happened in this case was pure political deception.
You haven't answered a single direct question I've asked you, indicating you prefer not to engage because you HAVE NO answers. Is that correct?
'The way I see it is, muskie fishermen in Minnesota have some choices to make. Continue with the “blame game” or man up realize when you should do the right thing. '
I believe you have pretty strong disagreement on what is, or is not, the 'right thing' to do from a number of folks here. Give me ONE example of how a protected fishery will benefit from lifting the ban. One. Indicate to me how the ban on the waters now protected limits or stops those who like to spear from enjoying their sport. LOTS of water to spear, isn't there?
A slot limit was suggested by JS. Not a bad compromise, if one assumes no one will spear any muskies accidentally or on purpose. NW Ontario has a working slot, allowing harvest under about 27 or over 36, and only one of four allowed over 36. No spearing of course, but the slot works for all other angling methods. Would the Darkhouse folks support that on Cass? It's a reasonable move to protect the trophy pike and equitable for all angling, protecting a trophy resource for us all, right? Isn't that 'the right thing' to do if one puts managing a trophy fishery for all anglers first and special interests on BOTH sides of the issue second? |
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Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | I guess I will need to check how my reps voted on this, so I am able to decide whether to vote for them again. If I find they supported this I will not vote to re-elect them, and will be telling them exactly why.
It seems very odd to me that at the same time MN is switching to a deer management policy based on getting more "trophy" deer for hunters to harvest, they are at the same time going against existing policies to help propagate and promote a trophy pike and muskie fishery. And the REALLY odd thing is, I know a couple local spearers who were vocal proponents of the new antler restrictions imposed for deer hunters in SE MN. Weird that folks who support dirty backroom politics reducing opportunity at a trophy fishery in order to increase their part of the harvest, then being in support of a policy that restricts another persons opportunity to harvest a deer simply in order to increase their chance at a trophy. Just seems a little inconsistent, but then again most folks positions on a variety of issues these days can most often be described as inconsistent. usually I guess people these days side with whichever position gives them what they want, instead of using a set standard to determine whether they think something is right or wrong.
There are a myriad of lakes open to spearing of pike, just in the Cass Lake area alone. No matter what is said, its obvious to anyone with even a modicum of common sense what it is Cass offers that those other lakes do not, and it certainly isnt "eater" size pike! |
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Location: The desert | castmaster - 10/19/2011 10:16 AM
Weird that folks who support dirty backroom politics reducing opportunity at a trophy fishery in order to increase their part of the harvest, then being in support of a policy that restricts another persons opportunity to harvest a deer simply in order to increase their chance at a trophy. Just seems a little inconsistent, but then again most folks positions on a variety of issues these days can most often be described as inconsistent. usually I guess people these days side with whichever position gives them what they want, instead of using a set standard to determine whether they think something is right or wrong.
There are a myriad of lakes open to spearing of pike, just in the Cass Lake area alone. No matter what is said, its obvious to anyone with even a modicum of common sense what it is Cass offers that those other lakes do not, and it certainly isnt "eater" size pike!
So spear fisherman should have their opportunity to take a trophy fish reduced because it might reduce the potential of the angling community to catch a trophy specimen?
Seems a little inconsistent. Might want to think through what you post...... |
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | I've been trying to stay out of this one but I just can't anymore.
"You might want to re-think your position. The truth is the MN legislature had a spearing ban on that water, not the MnDNR."
The "truth" is the DNR supported this legislation all 4 times it's been presented in the legislature. They saw a need and at the time and had the data to back up the regulation. This legislation was passed against the testomony of the MnDNR.
The "truth" also is that it's a heck of a lot harder to have a large pike eat a tip-up bait vs. spearing them in the dark house. Speaking as one who has spent hours and hours fishing for them from a spear hole I think that I have a little credibility on this subject. I also chuckle when I hear guys that say they "look and released" 4 different trophy pike in a day only to take one. Newsflash: IT WAS PROBABLY THE SAME DARN FISH!!!! Sigh, the problem with many is that they don't realize how few large pike and muskies are in a system and until they do then habits will never be changed.
Since I'm one of a couple people who attended every Esocide work group that involved the spearing interest I can tell you that progress was being made, until the double talk started coming from the MDAA. Discussion about how the MDAA would support new waters as well as lifting the spearing bans were being held. A member of the MDAA even said "you guys need muskies in Tetonka!" We were floored to say the least. We were on our way to some real progress between our two groups when Kirk and Tim took over. They provided a hardline anti-muskie campaign and decided to start things up in the legislature. Just look at the "Sportsmen for Responsible Muskie Management" site as well as their "public awareness" add in the Outdoor News. All the while when they were telling us what we wanted to hear, they were working against us to kill the Esocide LRP as well as spreading lies to the lake shore associations to kill the stocking proposals. They even tried to kill one of the new approved lakes this past spring after it had been approved.
Even with all of this happening to us, I opened a back line of communication to the Tim Spreck, President of the MDAA to see if we can figure out a way out from all of this as to not escalate things to a worse place then we currently are. The response was a resounding NO. I personally believe that the fighting will get worse and we will continue to spend hours and dollars on these issues instead of bettering the fishery. It makes me sick when I look at the effort we put forth to try to maintain and improve the fishery only to have legislators recklessly destroy regs with a stroke of a pen.
So Guest, how is MI and the MMPA leading the muskie and pike anglers down the wrong path again? How can any muskie fisherman trust the MDAA or anyone who would let these people represent them after all of this? I know that I've tried and until things change in their leadership and/or subculture I can't. |
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| Pointer,
They are trying to take everyones trophy opps. away by eliminating slots for pike on all lakes. Being a Fisheries biologist you should know that protecting the large pike is good for the overall fishery.
You should see some of the hammer handle factories (whitefish chain) we have in MN, its pretty ridiculous. You can't troll a bait over 15 min without getting ripped by an 18" pike, ooh what fun. |
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Location: Minnesota: where it's tough to be a sportsfan! | Wow, allot of information and allot of it not coming from science or "on the water knowledge"
I can only speak from my personal observations of 10 years straight of 236+ days on the water anually as an average. Every body of water I knew, I mean figured outr most of the secrets on without exception suffered when an increased amount of spearing took place. This involved the bio-mass fishery as a whole. Some lakes never recovered, some did only to subcum to another onslaught of darkhouse spearing. Without exception the 20lb. pike dwindled from 2-3 /yr catch rates to zero within as little as ONE season! Spearing is HARVESTING, nothing more in my personal opinion. The goal should be to create opportunities for QUALITY resources NOT supply a select few with means to HARVEST. Sad day for Cass Lake and those resorts that know better. "MN. will be plaqued as long as the DNR is controlled by the legislators which cannot help but give in to special interests. The future of the Muskie fisheries is not the only thing in jeporady. Just watch" Jake |
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Location: The desert | B420 - 10/19/2011 11:57 AM
Pointer,
They are trying to take everyones trophy opps. away by eliminating slots for pike on all lakes. Being a Fisheries biologist you should know that protecting the large pike is good for the overall fishery.
You should see some of the hammer handle factories (whitefish chain) we have in MN, its pretty ridiculous. You can't troll a bait over 15 min without getting ripped by an 18" pike, ooh what fun.
But you are making the broad assumption that EVERY spearer is only going to harvest trophy pike. You also make the assumption that anglers release all trophy pike. Slot limits are great, but I don't see them being practical for spearing for obvious reasons. Seems a quota of some sort might work better to protect a number of big pike, yet still allowing the chance at a few trophy pike for the spearing groups. As a fisheries biologist, I do understand the importance of protecting some of the larger fish but it doesn't seem as the fisheries biologists had an actual say in this matter what so ever. But what is done is done, now it is up to the biologists to figure out how to play the hand they were dealt.
Spearing and sustainability can coincide. Again, I point to the sturgeon management done by the WDNR.
Seems there is trouble in paradise (Minnysoda). Wisconsin isn't looking half bad at this point. 
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| Going off what jakej said about spearing being harvesting...has there ever been any discussion about having a short "spearing season." Something similar to slug season for deer. This would give the spearers their chance at a "trophy." I am completely opposed to spearing, but it seems there is going to need to be some sort of deal made that everyone can agree on because it's obvious they have no intentions of settling with their latest victory. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Pointerpride102 - 10/19/2011 12:55 PM
Seems there is trouble in paradise (Minnysoda ). Wisconsin isn't looking half bad at this point.
Badgers - Gophers (W)
Packers - Vikings (W)
Brewers - Twins (W)
Leinies - Mich. Golden Light (to use a MN. term ... ish) (W)
Shells - Spotted Cow (W)
Mille Lacs - Green Bay (W)
Walker - Dayton (W)
Lambeau - Metrodome (W)
Tarrget Field - Miller Park (Tie)
Sun Drop - ?? (W)
Rifle - Shotgun (W)
edit
Tipup - Spear or Tipup (M)
yah, Sconnie looks pretty good ... except for that last one!
Edited by jonnysled 10/19/2011 1:31 PM
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Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | jonnysled - 10/19/2011 11:30 AM
Badgers - Gophers (W)
Packers - Vikings (W)
Brewers - Twins (W)
Leinies - Mich. Golden Light (to use a MN. term ... ish) (W)
Shells - Spotted Cow (W)
Mille Lacs - Green Bay (W)
Walker - Dayton (W)
Lambeau - Metrodome (W)
Tarrget Field - Miller Park (Tie)
Sun Drop - ?? (W)
Rifle - Shotgun (W)
edit
Tipup - Spear or Tipup (M)
yah, Sconnie looks pretty good ... except for that last one!
Summit - Leinies (M)
Surly - New Glaris (M)
Although I do like "Totally Naked" from NG, we've totally got better beer on this side of the river. |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | i'm in my NP office this week and it looks like i may have to go buy a couple a beers ... |
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Location: The desert | jakejusa - 10/19/2011 12:38 PM
Wow, allot of information and allot of it not coming from science or "on the water knowledge"
I can only speak from my personal observations of 10 years straight of 236+ days on the water anually as an average. Every body of water I knew, I mean figured outr most of the secrets on without exception suffered when an increased amount of spearing took place. This involved the bio-mass fishery as a whole. Some lakes never recovered, some did only to subcum to another onslaught of darkhouse spearing. Without exception the 20lb. pike dwindled from 2-3 /yr catch rates to zero within as little as ONE season! Spearing is HARVESTING, nothing more in my personal opinion. The goal should be to create opportunities for QUALITY resources NOT supply a select few with means to HARVEST. Sad day for Cass Lake and those resorts that know better. "MN. will be plaqued as long as the DNR is controlled by the legislators which cannot help but give in to special interests. The future of the Muskie fisheries is not the only thing in jeporady. Just watch" Jake
After sifting through this highly anecdotal and horribly confusing/misspelled post, I think I've got it down to: My enjoyment of my sport is more important than someone else, therefore my opinion is more valuable and I should be entitled to more than others.
Problem is, both sides of the coin are full of these types of people. Rather than even attempting to work together to find some sort of compromise or balance, it turns into an entitlement urinating match. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Pointer, in this case there were folks trying very hard to meet in the middle and find a way to keep everyone happy. The opposing side took a very sudden hard left turn and in the process told those working towards compromise to pound sand while placing a shiv firmly into the spine of all the work done up to that point. Makes it tough to work together much again.
And it explains why there are so many folks disappointed in what then happened during and following the Gov't shutdown.
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Location: The desert | sworrall - 10/19/2011 2:34 PM
Pointer, in this case there were folks trying very hard to meet in the middle and find a way to keep everyone happy. The opposing side took a very sudden hard left turn and in the process told those working towards compromise to pound sand while placing a shiv firmly into the spine of all the work done up to that point. Makes it tough to work together much again.
And it explains why there are so many folks disappointed in what then happened during and following the Gov't shutdown.
Got it....I skimmed Treats' post and missed the part of new powers that be in the Spearers.
I assume that they were dissatisfied or unaware of the progress being made?
Edited by Pointerpride102 10/19/2011 2:59 PM
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Location: Hudson, WI | Heileman's Old Style. That has to put WI ahead in the beer department. |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | Moltisanti - 10/19/2011 3:36 PM
Heileman's Old Style. That has to put WI ahead in the beer department.
You've got to be kidding, the only thing Old Style is good for is keeping a guy regular. |
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| Sled
lets not stop at green bay
leech vs????
Vermilion vs ?
Cass vs?
Miltona vs?
Minnetonka vs ? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Guest - 10/19/2011 4:32 PM
Sled
lets not stop at green bay
leech vs????
Vermilion vs ?
Cass vs?
Miltona vs?
Minnetonka vs ?
trump ...
but, not unlike the minnesota drivers on the road, i'd prefer fishin' smallies in n. wisco to big muskies on crowded lakes full a bite-chasers.
that said ... anybody been on mille lacs fishin' smallies? holy crap! worth the trip!! and hardly anyone there anymore after the place got left for dead. maybe the list you have will have a similar result??
hey ... why not try saving the muskies in mille lacs instead of the pike in other lakes? or have we moved on from that lake already? i have seen the enemy and the enemy is ourselves.
Edited by jonnysled 10/19/2011 5:54 PM
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Location: deephaven mn | (Quote);
There is only one thing that I have seen that the MnDNR, muskies Inc, and the Minnesota Darkhouse and Angling Association can agree on. No Darkhouse Spearing bans on new muskie waters (which are the same size and type as the “old waters”) in Minnesota.
muskies Inc’s and the minnnesota muskie alliance’s official position is no bans on new waters, yet what they won’t tell you is that they support the bans on the old waters. It is pretty hard to have any credibility with a possition like this.
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Guest,
This statement is what I call "twist and shout"
I think Muskies Inc's possition on supporting spearing bans on old waters is very clear and very open, isn't this how this thread started?
Muskies Inc is also willing to allow spearing on new waters as part of a negotiation
with the Darkhouse Angling Association.
Edited by kap 10/19/2011 5:26 PM
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Location: Bemidji | I spoke on behalf of the MN Muskie and Pike Alliance to Senator John Carlson to compromise on this issue earlier this year. He took it back to the handful of people he was representing in Cass Lake and basically told me there would be no compromise. The compromise was C and R on Cass for muskies, slot limit on pike, and winter spearing would have been open. So we developed something that would have been beneficial to both groups and it was thrown back in our face.
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Location: Hudson, WI | Bytor - 10/19/2011 4:02 PM
Moltisanti - 10/19/2011 3:36 PM
Heileman's Old Style. That has to put WI ahead in the beer department.
You've got to be kidding, the only thing Old Style is good for is keeping a guy regular.
That's what I would have said 6 months ago. Then a friend of mine bought a 12 pack and left it in my fridge. Something about it hooked me. I've started to notice that people treat you with an aire of authority when you order an Old Style, like you are really wise and attractive. Kind of like when you grow a mustache. |
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Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | Pointerpride102 - 10/19/2011 11:24 AM
castmaster - 10/19/2011 10:16 AM
Weird that folks who support dirty backroom politics reducing opportunity at a trophy fishery in order to increase their part of the harvest, then being in support of a policy that restricts another persons opportunity to harvest a deer simply in order to increase their chance at a trophy. Just seems a little inconsistent, but then again most folks positions on a variety of issues these days can most often be described as inconsistent. usually I guess people these days side with whichever position gives them what they want, instead of using a set standard to determine whether they think something is right or wrong.
There are a myriad of lakes open to spearing of pike, just in the Cass Lake area alone. No matter what is said, its obvious to anyone with even a modicum of common sense what it is Cass offers that those other lakes do not, and it certainly isnt "eater" size pike!
So spear fisherman should have their opportunity to take a trophy fish reduced because it might reduce the potential of the angling community to catch a trophy specimen?
Seems a little inconsistent. Might want to think through what you post......
Nothing inconsistent about it Pointer. The MN DNR put those regs in place for a reason. Its their position, based on science not politics, that spearing isnt conducive to a trophy pike fishery. That fishery exists in Cass Lake due in part to that restriction.
Gee I guess next we best make sure those fellas who like to shoot trophy deer with the aid of a spotlight get the same opportunity as those who hunt during the day to harvest a trophy. I mean to be in support of the daylight hunter harvesting deer but not the nighttime hunter doing so would be inconsistent!
Perhaps "LEGALIZE SHINING" can be the next backroom deal that gets done?
how about those folks who would prefer to harvest their fish using nets instead of hook/line or spear...best make sure they have an opportunity to harvest equal to that of the previous two groups. How bout those whose prefferred method is trotlining? Jug fishing? Dynamite?
Why have regs at all then? I mean its going to be inconsistent for someone at some point right? I think most people will get what I was saying, just as I'm sure you will try to play grammar police and nit pick the ideas/opinions of others while offering little of substance.
Inconsistent would be for me to take a position on this issue saying the spearers shouldnt be able to spear anywhere based on their harvesting of pike, then supporting a proposal to giver liberalized harvest of pike to hook and line anglers.
Edited by castmaster 10/20/2011 10:16 AM
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| firstsixfeet - 10/18/2011 4:22 PM
Spreck obviously is a knobhead when it comes to both thinking and speaking.
"Spreck said he beleives most spear fishermen are mindful of conservation and only take what they need, as opposed to sport angling, which can actually have a much higher mortality rate."
So spearers "need" northern pike to put "food on their plate"?
And spearing has a lower mortality rate than sport angling?
Uhm........wouldn't that be 100% for spearing Mr. Spreck?
They "need" northerns huh? and 10#'s at that?
All I have to say is that mercury poisoning is a horrible, painful way to die, and karma is a good guy! no shortage of mercury in 10#'s |
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| This has been a tough one for me to sit back on as well....we are fighting the battle in Michigan to try and stop the expansion of spearing and it's coming down to the wire. I don't think comparing spearing to hook and line angling for muskies is apples to apples at all. I grew up spearing pike and it was a blast---I'm not against spearing. What I am against is spearing for muskies, particularly in very small bodies of water like the ones being targeted in the Michigan expansion---almost all of which are under 1,000 acres and most of those under 500. The leader of our state's Darkhouse group said at a recent meeting something to the effect that muskies are no nobler than a pike. Lots of reasons to disagree with that, most of them too obvious to waste typing out.
Many good points in this thread---and some that admittedly are hard to read without wanting to blow up on someone's position. Some posts are purposely argumentative on this subject and others because the authors enjoy being controversial---not a newsflash, they do it almost everyday and make for entertaining reading at times. But we have seen the impacts of opening up lakes to spearing in Michigan and they were and continue to be disastrous as far as maintaining an adult population of fish after the winter "harvests." The impact over a period of time, even on huge lakes like those in Minnesota, has to be extremely significant.
I hope Minnesota and Michigan can keep the impact of spearing harvest to a minimum. Once the damage has been done, it's a long wait to get back to where things were---if they ever do. Sometimes anecdotal evidence ends up being factual, even if someone's use of the English language isn't up to your standards. |
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Location: The desert | IM Musky Time - 10/20/2011 7:08 PM
This has been a tough one for me to sit back on as well....we are fighting the battle in Michigan to try and stop the expansion of spearing and it's coming down to the wire. I don't think comparing spearing to hook and line angling for muskies is apples to apples at all. I grew up spearing pike and it was a blast---I'm not against spearing. What I am against is spearing for muskies, particularly in very small bodies of water like the ones being targeted in the Michigan expansion---almost all of which are under 1,000 acres and most of those under 500. The leader of our state's Darkhouse group said at a recent meeting something to the effect that muskies are no nobler than a pike. Lots of reasons to disagree with that, most of them too obvious to waste typing out.
Many good points in this thread---and some that admittedly are hard to read without wanting to blow up on someone's position. Some posts are purposely argumentative on this subject and others because the authors enjoy being controversial---not a newsflash, they do it almost everyday and make for entertaining reading at times. But we have seen the impacts of opening up lakes to spearing in Michigan and they were and continue to be disastrous as far as maintaining an adult population of fish after the winter "harvests." The impact over a period of time, even on huge lakes like those in Minnesota, has to be extremely significant.
I hope Minnesota and Michigan can keep the impact of spearing harvest to a minimum. Once the damage has been done, it's a long wait to get back to where things were---if they ever do. Sometimes anecdotal evidence ends up being factual, even if someone's use of the English language isn't up to your standards.
Sometimes it does, but most of the time it doesn't. That is why they pay the biologists and not the fisherman.
Edit to add: How are muskies "nobler" than pike? I must have missed the class on fish nobleness? Or are you saying you value muskies more than pike, therefore your opinion is worth more than that of the Darkhouse leader? Seems snobby to me. Maybe the fly fisherman are recruiting? Acceptance in the club comes with a lovely salmon surf shirt!
I'm not advocating the spearing of muskies, but simply because someone's opinion differs from yours, doesn't make yours "nobler".
Edited by Pointerpride102 10/20/2011 7:23 PM
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Posts: 243
| Pointerpride102 - 10/20/2011 7:17 PM
IM Musky Time - 10/20/2011 7:08 PM
This has been a tough one for me to sit back on as well....we are fighting the battle in Michigan to try and stop the expansion of spearing and it's coming down to the wire. I don't think comparing spearing to hook and line angling for muskies is apples to apples at all. I grew up spearing pike and it was a blast---I'm not against spearing. What I am against is spearing for muskies, particularly in very small bodies of water like the ones being targeted in the Michigan expansion---almost all of which are under 1,000 acres and most of those under 500. The leader of our state's Darkhouse group said at a recent meeting something to the effect that muskies are no nobler than a pike. Lots of reasons to disagree with that, most of them too obvious to waste typing out.
Many good points in this thread---and some that admittedly are hard to read without wanting to blow up on someone's position. Some posts are purposely argumentative on this subject and others because the authors enjoy being controversial---not a newsflash, they do it almost everyday and make for entertaining reading at times. But we have seen the impacts of opening up lakes to spearing in Michigan and they were and continue to be disastrous as far as maintaining an adult population of fish after the winter "harvests." The impact over a period of time, even on huge lakes like those in Minnesota, has to be extremely significant.
I hope Minnesota and Michigan can keep the impact of spearing harvest to a minimum. Once the damage has been done, it's a long wait to get back to where things were---if they ever do. Sometimes anecdotal evidence ends up being factual, even if someone's use of the English language isn't up to your standards.
Sometimes it does, but most of the time it doesn't. That is why they pay the biologists and not the fisherman.
Edit to add: How are muskies "nobler" than pike? I must have missed the class on fish nobleness? Or are you saying you value muskies more than pike, therefore your opinion is worth more than that of the Darkhouse leader? Seems snobby to me. Maybe the fly fisherman are recruiting? Acceptance in the club comes with a lovely salmon surf shirt!
I'm not advocating the spearing of muskies, but simply because someone's opinion differs from yours, doesn't make yours "nobler".
Who says live bait isn't effective? That was quick. Hey, I'm not going to hijack this thread and made my opinion known about the spearing issue, so I'll let you have the last word if you choose. I have no idea who you are, but know you enjoy playing the role of bully on this forum. You can play semantics all you want, but I find your comment about me being snobby pretty ironic since you seem to think you're the authority on everything and appear to get a lot of satisfaction from taking shots at people expressing their opinions. Maybe you should try out for Jeopardy. |
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