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Posts: 3913
| What a hoot to read this #*#*.
Some observations...
* The articulate Guest is recognized by his writing style. Trust me, I know ranters and how we write.
* The ideas presented riled up SteveW so much he wrote a considered response. Hmmm. Prob because when you hear a sniper's bullets go into you and yer buddies they sound like "zip" and feel like "smack".
* Treats' opinion is always informed and solid. Except for that time when he drenched our boat with water and sand heading out from the docks at a Cass Lake Outing. I bareley had time to cover my reels, ya jerk.
* Folks who be discouraged with the state of muskie fishing affairs can always switch to targeting other fish. Head for the rivers to catch a 40# flathead or a 8# steelhead or a 30# carp.
* Don't fish at all. Sell all your stuff and buy diving gear and go swimming with the muskies. And turtles and muskrats and all sorts of critters. (If you choose this one I want all yer Suicks.)
* Wait for a nice calm night. With a big moon, too. Put your boat in the water then do a hit of acid. Crash a bonfire till yer too silly to communicate with mortals. Head back out to the water and play with Topraiders and a Q-Beam. Blaze around the lake all nite then sit back and watch a sunrise.
Selfish? No yer not being selfish. Change is the only sure bet. |
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| Mantra: no need to apologize when the dogs of consumerisms eulogize.
Go forth and seek new solitary waters they speak.
And when the dogs of consumerisms find you again, go forth and seek new solitary waters – they will always speak.
And when there are no more waters, go fish something other than this matter.
They appeal for your participation - without it the world comes to an end, yet they do onto you their expense of your enjoyment. Their means to your end favors solely onto them, there is no concern for each and everybody, but please keep paying the subscription.
Your participation lead you to where you are, keep on participating they say to keep you where you are.
The mirror's reflection starts with you, ends with you.
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Posts: 1120
Location: West Chester, OH | Guest - 10/10/2011 6:40 AM
Mantra: no need to apologize when the dogs of consumerisms eulogize.
Go forth and seek new solitary waters they speak.
And when the dogs of consumerisms find you again, go forth and seek new solitary waters – they will always speak.
And when there are no more waters, go fish something other than this matter.
They appeal for your participation - without it the world comes to an end, yet they do onto you their expense of your enjoyment. Their means to your end favors solely onto them, there is no concern for each and everybody, but please keep paying the subscription.
Your participation lead you to where you are, keep on participating they say to keep you where you are.
The mirror's reflection starts with you, ends with you.
Looks like someone wants to Occupy Lake X.... |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Ranger - 10/9/2011 11:41 PM
Except for that time when he drenched our boat with water and sand heading out from the docks at a Cass Lake Outing. I bareley had time to cover my reels, ya jerk.
LMAO!!!! I totally forgot about that one. For the record, a certain non-slim Shady was behind the wheel if I remember right. |
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'They appeal for your participation - without it the world comes to an end, yet they do onto you their expense of your enjoyment. Their means to your end favors solely onto them, there is no concern for each and everybody, but please keep paying the subscription. '
What subscription?
When there are no more waters...foo. Without broad participation and wide interest, there would not be the waters that didn't have muskies 1000 years ago, and thee sure as sure wouldn't be new.
Remember the post by Todd Forcier a few weeks back about his tournament stocking muskies? He bought those from the Woodruff hatchery. It's a good chance my son probably stripped spawn from the muskie that those fish came from, and probably the suckers from which the food for that muskie was raised. Expensive stuff, raising muskies. The hatchery could have directed those resources toward walleyes, after all, far more folks fish those than muskies, right? I'm glad demand dictated muskies, personally. Stupid tournament anglers, and darn the internet promotion of a consumer event, it all reeks of consumerism.
This guy IS a 'dog' of consumerism, whatever that is...he's using a computer on the internet to complain about people using computers on the internet. He muskie fishes, so he buys lures, a fishing license, and maybe pays a launch fee or two, he bought a net, and I'd bet he has a fishing hat with a corporate logo on it. My suggestion to this guy is a cabin n Alaska, wayyyyyy back in the absolute nowhere of it. Be careful around the bears, and don't forget to put up a winter's heat and food.
Gotta buy gas and lures and a boat and rods and leaders and reels and all the other things that the activity necessitates. I WOULD recommend joining a MI club if one hasn't, though, and there's a membership fee, I guess, but that one I leave to the reader.
Muskie fishing is what you make of it, and that's about it. Deal with the realities of the sport as you wish, I choose to participate wide spectrum.
I don't even have a dog, you can call home and ask my wife. |
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| When the dogs of consumerism's eulogy is trumped, their banter, for what little it matters, resembles effigy and contemptuous.
For they not live by one of our lands golden rules - do onto others as they would prefer, opting to commercialize and justify their preferences over another.
When rebuttals are riddles containing a true sportsman's value of gold, the dogs of consumerism's seem unable to behold. Their reflection from the glass values themselves and no more, for they strive to over flight sell, leaving behind passengers whose reality is just to abhor.
Pay the piper for their flute will sound, with more over-runs and crowding than waters do abound.
Activism for more waters to handle the overflow when the dogs of consumerism's created this show.
Makes little sense to me as understanding my reflection has set me free, to finally bypass their glitter and ask not what they can do for me, but to me. |
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Posts: 3157
| hey selfish works!!!! look at what the darkhouse spearing is getting away with!!! |
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | hooker, point exactly. Guest, take a valium. Please. If, however, you followed Ranger's advice, please wait for 48 hours, THEN take a Valium. |
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Posts: 697
Location: Minnetonka | Kellet, I'm still a #1... just want to catch ONE. My point from the "sucking less" post above is that muskie fishing is growing to be what it is... not changing from what it should be.
Muskie Treats - 10/8/2011 9:17 AM
At the end of the day muskie fishing HAS CHANGED in MN and will continue to do so. This is why we need EVERYONE's help getting new lakes, improving regulations, fighting the anti-muskie crowd, etc so we have a fishery that is worthy to hand down to the next generation of fishermen.
I enjoy the point made here. Agreed, and thank you. |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | Not selfish at all. I loved it when the fishing sucked in the "bad old days". I could go out and fish where ever I wanted pretty much and had practically no competition. I caught a lot bigger fish on average then to. Once the numbers of fishermen increased the level of enjoyment decreased. Sure, it may be the "good old days" now because there are more bigger fish than ever caught, but when you divide them by the number fishing for them you come up on the short end of the math. As you progress with your fishing abilities, it seems more and more people want a quality experience, not a quantity experience. Numbers of boats do not count as quality. |
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Posts: 121
Location: Forest Lake, MN & Bemidji, MN | Sounds like a lot of people should never leave the house...do you need to be the only one in a good restaurant?
If you owned your own private lake you would b**ch about the taxes. Muskie fishing is fun, people are going to do it. Deal with it. |
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Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | I don't know. I just go fishing. If we can fish, its a good day. It we catch fish, its a great day.
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Posts: 797
Location: North Central IL USA | Herb_b - 10/10/2011 4:37 PM
I don't know. I just go fishing. If we can fish, its a good day. It we catch fish, its a great day.
Amen! |
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Posts: 512
| jfreborg - 10/10/2011 3:04 PM
Sounds like a lot of people should never leave the house...do you need to be the only one in a good restaurant?
If you owned your own private lake you would b**ch about the taxes. Muskie fishing is fun, people are going to do it. Deal with it.
Yes, if theres only 3 or 4 steaks in the lake!!
Dave |
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| Or it could be that "Guest" is just another consumer of which he rants about and you should wash all of his opinion down the toilet while he talks about himself. You say No? Is he not one who follows the writers blog, or is he just a newborn couch potato who has retired from sportsman to reader and write of Muskie Philosophy?  |
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| Part of the problem in MN is the fishing is too good. Let me explain; 90% of the anglers dont know or have forgotten what Muskie fishing was as recently as 15 years ago. Fortunately then we had fewer anglers to impact the fishery, a few men saw what was going on and got ahead of things and the MN DNR added a big slug of new lakes that have made what we have today.
Build it and they will come; no better quote has ever been written, now anglers are complacent, fishing is good but there are too many of us and too few lakes.
I feel those of us who have been working to get new lakes have failed miserably, considering there are 100,000 + Muskie fisherman in MN only about 10-15% will take time to call or write a letter (we found out 15000 aint enough, they crapped on us).
I'm not sure how to get through to you that you could have it all, you could have 25 new lakes in MN possibly more, now we suffer with too few lakes and a system that will not build for the future.
I suppose when we start harpooning them the fishing will get better.
Its your fishery, call the commissioner, call your local representatives and &^$^ing do something about it.
DNR ask for the Commissioner's office 888-646-6367
MN Representatives http://www.gis.leg.mn/OpenLayers/districts/
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| A shot of JD, with a chaser of Adam’s brew, forgoes the need of your suggestion to re-establish my life anew.
The dogs of consumerism’s eulogies have gone flat, with latest remarks resembling those of a young brat.
For those of us, our reflections now shining through are as clear as the wonderful sky’s blue.
For that rank and filer, having planned their only week long stay, they now stand in line at reef’s edge while the dog’s of consumerism practice their foray.
For the beginner, their involvements are wide eyed, but eventually that cut-off will dampen their spirits to the point of being fried.
More lakes, more involvement, the ice spearing generation alarms, the dog’s of consumerism now proclaim this harm.
Be it a song of old or a new lyric never heard, the musky sportsman of nature’s tranquility will still be left holding one big turd.
For their bait and switch will always remain, you change not me will always be their disdain.
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There is a big difference between what is good for the fishery and what is good for the business of fishing.
The fishery in MN was built before the masses were convinced they needed to go out and buy DBL 10's, 9' rods and saltwater reels. Before everybody became a bait maker and rod seller. It didn't need the help of the internet or anything else to get it started.
The numbers of fishermen have increased 10 fold but the money put into stocking fish or other programs is still the same as it always has been. The same few guys and clubs are raising the cash and doing the work to try to catch up to what the "business" of fishing has handed us.
The "good old days" were 10 years ago. Now we are on the downhill slide. Fish numbers are decreasing, lakes are so crowded (with people who can't fish with any common courtesy) that the experience of fishing has soured many.
Personally I don't pick to go to crowded places to eat either. Why would I?
Funny how defensive some people get when others proclaim that they don't like the pressure of today. Why should we? It isn't positive in any way for most of us.
JS
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Posts: 1530
| my dad started me in 1956. . from the days of eating all we caught till now. society and its quirks has made many seasoned folks to fish and stay silent. the internet explores and tells all. theres many that choose to be silent on catches.
as for being selfish, explore new areas, fish off times. muskies do eat year round daily. |
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Posts: 1224
Location: Okoboji | Guest - 10/11/2011 5:59 AM
A shot of JD, with a chaser of Adam’s brew, forgoes the need of your suggestion to re-establish my life anew.
The dogs of consumerism’s eulogies have gone flat, with latest remarks resembling those of a young brat.
For those of us, our reflections now shining through are as clear as the wonderful sky’s blue.
For that rank and filer, having planned their only week long stay, they now stand in line at reef’s edge while the dog’s of consumerism practice their foray.
For the beginner, their involvements are wide eyed, but eventually that cut-off will dampen their spirits to the point of being fried.
More lakes, more involvement, the ice spearing generation alarms, the dog’s of consumerism now proclaim this harm.
Be it a song of old or a new lyric never heard, the musky sportsman of nature’s tranquility will still be left holding one big turd.
For their bait and switch will always remain, you change not me will always be their disdain.
what?!?! |
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Posts: 60
Location: Colgate, WI | As someone that is new to Musky fishing, I'll tell you guys that the "Good Old Days/Glory Days" syndrome exists everywhere. Just because someone has been doing something longer than a newcomer, doesn't give special privilege to continue to enjoy that pastime as if the world is standing still and nothing has changed. Sure, you can skip the latest trend in electronics, boats, tackle, etc... but the sport will evolve.
Ask any longtime golfer, car guy, shooting enthusiast or anyone else with a special interest. Maybe it's a fad, maybe not. Nevertheless, the world is simply more crowded these days.
Growth of interest and the business of fishing is a good thing, because without growth the sport would eventually be lost.
Things aren't worse, they're just different...
Blair
Edited by Lucky Loon 10/11/2011 8:45 AM
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | What is Muskies Inc? Do they charge to become a member? Do they hit every business they can to acquire prizes for their meetings, and work hard to grow membership, put out an expensive magazine and operate an expensive website? Do they promote muskie fishing and place education of the new anglers brought into the sport as paramount? Do they sponsor competition within the club and from prospective members to raise funds? Does each club hire expert speakers to entertain and educate the membership and draw in new members, and are not a large percentage of those speakers guides and industry folk? Who provides the funds for the stocking and other projects MI does get done? It ain't you personally or a few others, it's the membership.... and the public from fund raisers. Come on, MI is intimately involved in the business of fishing and always has been. It is not mutually exclusive.
There are literally hundreds of folks folks involved in organized muskie angling who have worked hard to see the sport of muskie angling grow through expanded opportunity since the early 80's. Never once have I heard an official exclusionary message from any MI club, and I'm pretty sure no MI member or club has ever laid exclusive claim to any one fishery. Examine the total costs of each State's fisheries muskie management program, and the actual participation from the public at large including MI, and tell me we collectively could even come close to getting it done without the State DNR budget.
My entire point is this:
If you fish for muskies, you are part of the 'problem'. You represent part of the crowd. Who the hell are you to decide who should or should not be welcome to fish? You bought your boat, and the rest of your gear, so seriously...shut up about consumerism being the problem...without it the fisheries would not exist as they do. On one hand you beg us to participate, and on the other curse our participation.
Managing the resource should be the responsibility of the biologists the State pays to get that done. As MI or other club members, we can and do influence the decisions made, but don't (Thank God) run the program. Riding along on a few boom shocking or netting projects doesn't make anyone a fisheries employee, those folks are working every day, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year for pay that a mid level big box store employee wouldn't take. Sure, the assistance and involvement of clubs and the public are appreciated, and activists can sway the direction of the machine at times and pay for the wheels to be greased once or twice a year, but we are not 'the program' and it's plain delusional to either pretend or actually believe we are. Perhaps it goes to personal motive with some folks.
Now it's politics attacking our sport and taking the management of the program out of the hands of the experts we pay through the State budgets to take care of our sport in both MN and WI, and I'm saying that's a far larger looming problem than new muskie anglers will ever be...coupled with the current depression in the State budgets, it could do more damage in a couple years than all other possible problems combined. Fool is right on, dead center, bullseye on that count.
If you look around on some old threads here, I believe it was pointed out several years ago this would happen. It did. Whining about it or trying to point fingers isn't going to do squat. Dealing with reality and doing all we can to expand and improve opportunity might. At least a little.
To every single new muskie angler now and into the future; WELCOME. It's your ranks that will fill the voids when us crabby, self centered old farts fade off into the past.
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If 1/2 of the new anglers that are brought into the fold by the internet, TV shows and guides would step up and make an effort to improve muskie fishing then we'd be well on our way to a bright future.
Until that happens we're in the same place we were before the new lakes got started.
To many people wanting to use the same fishery. That inevitably results in the fishery declining both in numbers and in quality of fishing experience.
Maybe some of us wouldn't be so crabby if the rest of the muskie world (other than about 10%) gave a rats butt about anything other than doing whatever it takes to catch a 50"er.
JS |
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | JS,
That's the reality of the human condition. I'm #*^@ed glad 10% do care, and if we approach the 90% for what the 10% need to get the job done, there it is.
The way it is, and always has been. |
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Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | For personal enlightenment, please let me hear your opinion, JS. I go to the MN Expo and sign the petitions for new lakes, even though I'll never fish them. I pay $45 for an out of state license, even though I've fished Waconia once and Miltona twice this year. I didn't cut anyone off either time, that I know of. I also bought a bunch of cowgirls and a few other baits made in Minnesota.
Is that okay, or am I just another part of the decay of the Minnesota fishery? |
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| You can take personally what you want to out of what I say or write.
It's not up to me to decide if an individual agrees with me, feels guilty or gets poed.
I'm not here to pat anyone on the back or call anyone out individually.
I'm just telling it like it is from my point of view.
JS
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Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | I'm not emotionally invested at all. I'm just asking for your opinion. Tell it like it is from your viewpoint. Have I done enough for the musky fishery in Minnesota to be able to fish there, or do I need to bring more to the table? |
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If you don't agree with the opinions I have that's fine with me. Trying to make me out to look like a bad guy doesn't change the message one way or the other.
I'm not going to play your little game.
JS
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Posts: 81
Location: Van Buren, Indiana | I kinda like the competition! It makes me dig deep and see how good I "think" I am. It's also kind of nice when you have had good action on a given day and boats roll by and have not had any luck! I have also learned the value of picking apart a spot. Previous statements are true even if there is lots of traffic Muskie's will still eat! I'm in school full time pursuing a B.S in Nursing, and the kids are in all of their stuff, (you guys know what I mean!), so any time on the water with the kids chasing Muskie, Bass or Gills is like Gold these days, and catching anything just sweetens the pot! We also have many lakes to choose from here in Indiana. Dave plan a trip to Brookeville, I can guarantee you won't be crowded, and there is some Big Girls in there!  |
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Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | JS, I apologize for making you look like the bad guy. In fact, I think you're right. So, here goes:
I, in the name of Allah, would like to make myself a martyr to all other muskie fisherman and give it up for good. No longer will I crowd up the lake for everyone else. I am selling all of my gear for various food items such as apples and bakery goods, as monetary profit is not in the best interest of others. To the muskie world, I leave Catfish Bar on the St. Croix River. It is a neckdown area with weeds and lots of baitfish. You should be able to catch 3 a day there now, since I won't be there once every two weeks anymore.
I will now be trout fishing full-time. You will find me fly casting on dry land, so as not to interfere with other fishermen or possible damage a trout's mouth. |
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