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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i read yours ...
then i read tj's ...
... pretty sure had it been tj as it seemed that my response was appropot
the rest was fair and good inside humor ...
plan on it! i'll be home thursday and puttin' walleyes on the ice by midnight ... |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Was me. He was driving all day, I was on the Ipad. See you up there...soon! |
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Posts: 1141
Location: NorthCentral WI | There may be some small glitches to work out with future models but how can you talk bad about a company that's making moves.
I do not ice fish but I think it's great that Jiffy continues to develop new and innovative ideas. They should be very proud of that.
Sorry, I thought the companies were owned by the same group... |
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Posts: 258
Location: Mayville, WI | Jiffy makes the auger being talked about.
sc |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Picked up another drill yesterday, a Jiffy Electric 10" model. No fuel at all on board, just a self contained battery that should go 25 holes, plenty for me most days. Should be cool. |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | Steve,
You should also be able to use cables to hook that electric auger up to an external battery source if you need more power or the onboard battery is dead. I could be worng depending on model but I know thats how our electric Jiffy works. I've found with thick ice and real cold temps the self contained battery starts loosing oomph before the battery hits half charge. Hook it up to the truck battery, or a deep cycle battery you might have in teh shack and your good to go.
The Ice Gator looks to teb the real ticket when it comes to electric augers. Have been considering buying one the past couple years to replace out Jiffy Lectric but with this new Pro 4 I am thinking about going that route instead.
I am also thinking that for more than a couple folks this animosity towards this new propane powered auger has to do with a dislike of anything they view as being "green". I even heard a couple guys at the show last Saturday going back and forth about how this was obviously just some sort of liberal agenda to get rid of 2 stroke gas engines. Pretty tough to argue with that kind of "logic" I guess. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | explain to me how 1lb. propane tanks are "green" other than their color?? one of the single biggest pains in the butt to dispose of.
i understand the product and understand the market and opening for it, but "green"?? LOL gimme a break.
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | Sled's post sums it up for me. I can't find the little green buggers for under $3 and when they're spent what the heck do I do with em? Electric would be "green" but I'm going to wait till they've been around a while. Too many burnt up motors and dead batteries on the ones I've seen, though I haven't seen a Jiffy electric yet. |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | I'm not saying that is my opinion. It is what I have overheard others saying. Like I said, tough to argue that sort of "logic". My guess is those folks view it as "green" based on the low emissions and the way its marketed on those low emissions. In fact when I overheard the 2 guys talking about it being part of a liberal agenda, it was while they were running the auger inside the show, talking about how they could do so because of the low exhaust emissions. It also seemed as if those 2 already had some opinions on "liberals" trying to take away 2 cycle engines. Then given what appears to be a level of "animosity" towards this new auger got me wondering how many share those thoughts/views. Just seems odd that guys would get worked up and try to talk others out of buying something by saying it wont work, even though they have never used the product.
Also, you guys do know you can buy an attachment for your 20lb tanks to refill the 1lb'ers? I dont like refilling them more than a couple times since I get concerned over the valve starting to leak. But definitely better than tossing them after a single use.
I also dont see any reason why this auger couldnt be ran with a hose off a larger tank, the same as you would with a heater or lantern. I know I plan on giving it a try once I pick mine up.
Flameauski,
The Jiffy Lectric auger has been out for years, as has the Strikemaster model. I know our Jiffy Lectric is at least 10 years old and I am sure they were making them well before we bought ours. My only issue with them is the rpm and torque are lacking vs a gas powered drill. when your used to watching that auger spin through the ice and then go to a speed that seems only a little faster than a hand drill it gets annoying. But it serves the purpose it was bought for, and thats drilling inside the permie and the wheelhouse. The IceGator augers seem to have quite a bit more power and torque than the others. And maybe the newer Jiffys or Strikemasters have more power than our older one, I really dont know. |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | jonnysled - 12/8/2010 8:12 PM
explain to me how 1lb. propane tanks are "green" other than their color?? one of the single biggest pains in the butt to dispose of.
i understand the product and understand the market and opening for it, but "green"?? LOL gimme a break.
Think hard about our society sled...perception IS their reality. You understand the market..but think about the marketing!
S.
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | Independent thought and fundamental logic fading fast. |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | Sled,
That sort of thing went by the wayside years ago for most. Might just be why our effed up political system works the way it does. People vote for the propaganda instead of the reality, because they are either unwilling or unable to subject what they are being told to the slightest level of critical thought.
Can you use that fundamental logic to explain to me why this auger will be junk in cold weather, while all my other propane fired equipment for ice fishing wont be? How is it my propane fueled heater will keep me warm enough to fish in those conditions, except my propane fired auger wont work so I will have no holes to fish through? Seems like sort of flawed logic to me anyway. |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | Sled,
My apologies for the last part of my previous post. reading back through the thread I realize you arent one of the guys saying this auger wouldnt work.
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Posts: 1270
| castmaster, you have never had problems with propane heaters not working in the cold? I have it happen every year, I need to take the bottle inside my vehicle to warm them up a lot of times before they will work. And yes I know that you could do the same with the propane bottles for the auger. I don't see anomosity towards this new auger, just a little concern about it. In a couple months we will know if there are any problems or not.
Yes there is an attachment to fill the 1lb. cans off of the larger thanks but check legality of them before driving down a highway with a re-filled 1lb. tank in your vehicle!
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Posts: 582
| all this discussion and yet no one has given a very good reason for this product other than its "just different". But again, i really wish we could determine the big need over a 2S gas operated auger that works and has worked for years for about $125. |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | reelman - 12/9/2010 9:55 AM
castmaster, you have never had problems with propane heaters not working in the cold? I have it happen every year, I need to take the bottle inside my vehicle to warm them up a lot of times before they will work. And yes I know that you could do the same with the propane bottles for the auger. I don't see anomosity towards this new auger, just a little concern about it. In a couple months we will know if there are any problems or not.
Yes there is an attachment to fill the 1lb. cans off of the larger thanks but check legality of them before driving down a highway with a re-filled 1lb. tank in your vehicle!
Not sure why I even typed this as it will probably be deleted by the powers that be like my other posts on this thread!
Be very careful about storing Propane Bottles inside a car or truck, if one would roll under a seat and come summer when a car/truck inside can get over 150 degrees that Propane bottle will blow off the relief valve and fill the inside of your car/truck with Propane. So I would never store Propane inside of any truck or car. Glad to see Jiffy has options about fuel source. |
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Posts: 8772
| jonnysled - 12/8/2010 9:12 PM
explain to me how 1lb. propane tanks are "green" other than their color?? one of the single biggest pains in the butt to dispose of.
i understand the product and understand the market and opening for it, but "green"?? LOL gimme a break.
Sled, let's not forget that these are often the same people who promote electric cars as being "green" as if the electricity to charge them just magically comes out the wall instead of from a coal fired power plant. These are the people who will boast to everyone about how they drive a hybrid, but neglect to mention that it's an SUV, or that they drive it 60 miles each way to work every day...
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | Reelman,
Never had those problems when using a full tank. Have had a time or tow in sub -25 with a near empty tank freezing up. I jsut switched tanks and was good to go.
I'll take my chances driving down the road with one, just as I do when removing the tag from a mattress.
Also, I memory serves me those regs only apply to transport in commercial vehicles? I'll have to check a bottle to see.
Jackson,
There have been many reasons given why some feel this is a nice new alternative. Use of a fuel source that is already present and used for other equipment. Clean burning with VERY low exhaust, nice feature when drilling inside a permanent or wheel house, especially a nice one. No need to "summerize" motor for long term offseason storage (other than maybe wanting to try and fog cylinders somehow). No worrying about a gummed up carb or fouled plugs. No dealing with mixing gas, carrying a gas tank with (yes some guys actually use their augers enough that they use more than 1 tank a season. Some of us even have to refill the tank over the course of a weekend trip!)
Its also a nice alternative to those of us who currently own both a gas auger and a electric auger(for drilling in the permie and wheelhouse). I will hopefully be able to get by with just one auger instead of bringing the electric to drill our holes in the wheelhouse and hte gas one for venturing out in the portable. |
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Posts: 8772
| reelman - 12/9/2010 9:55 AM
[...]
Yes there is an attachment to fill the 1lb. cans off of the larger thanks but check legality of them before driving down a highway with a re-filled 1lb. tank in your vehicle! [...]
What is the penalty for having a refilled propane canister in your vehicle? How would they know? |
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Posts: 582
| okay castmaster.. i am not blaming anyone for wanting one of these. YOu have your reasons and they are legit. I am merely stating that i can't see the big advantage. I also can't see this as this being such a "must have" because it's "so much better" than what has worked for years.
Just seems like that new musky lure that some pro caught a fish on and everyone then has to have for no other reason than it's the in thing. Put it this way,, make it the same price as a traditional gas powered one and see what people prefer. But if it costs more and i am sure it does.. .probably double... that's what i have a hard time with. |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | I believe propane is considered green due to less pollution given off during burn. So the bottle itself per say is not green. Not unless there becomes a recycling center for them, and they are in turn refilled appropriately and resold. Like Recycled paper. That would make sense to do since so many people use the 1lb canisters now days.
I for one like the idea of the propane drill. No more black exhaust on my jackets! I drill a pile of holes a day, and while caring the running auger from hole to hole it eventually “carbons” up my jacket. Why go away from gas? Apparently no one has noticed how dependant we are on oil. The less we can rely on it in my opinion the better. That is until we run into the same situation with natural gas….Oh boy.
Anyway the argument with cold weather doesn’t hold much with me either. Gas starts a lot harder in the very cold so what is the difference? My Mr heater starts just fine in 0° weather. Not sure where people are having troubles with propane in the winter. Maybe I have been lucky.
Why not to use gas…#1 is pollution (carbon foot print) . #2 is maintenance of gummed up carbs/injectors. No need for a tune up after 5-10 years. #3 No issues with gas containing ethanol (see #2). It is advised to not use gas containing ethanol in small engines. #4 no worry about spills and gas on hands. #5 (disclaimer as I think) I think propane actually produces more horsepower than gas. I have heard of guys injecting diesel trucks with propane (like Nitrous) for increased power, and know some have tractors for tractor pulling that use propane. #6 is less dependency on oil which means less dependency on foreign countries supplying it. Which in turn means some countries don’t have as much bargaining power, or in other words they don’t have us by the balls.
Why not to use propane per what I am hearing. #1 perceived poor operation in sub-zero weather (which is how often in reality?) #2 cost of propane cylinder. However I would not doubt gas will continue to rise in cost. #3 cost of drill.
Sounds like weight is awash. My assumption is due to the fact that they may need to beef up the motor a bit to handle the combustion of propane, but I could be wrong.
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Just to add. Engines running on propane tend to last longer since they run cleaner. Meaning no carbon buildup like you would get with gas. Carbon buildup reduces engine life.
Also found that the octane rating for propane is 110.
And oh yeh unlike 2-stroke run augers you don't need to buy oil to mix with it. One less hassel.
Propane also has a much longer shelf life than gas. No need to worry about it going "stale".
There are innovators, and then there are followers!
I am sure there were skeptics about the Vexilar when they first came out, and if the 3 colors were really needed. Was it really worth the extra cost? |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | I can't quite seem to prove the more HP point of propane.
But I found this interesting. If there is no reason to go to propane why would the following have been done:
http://www.lowonfuel.com/auto-news/roush-propane/
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/31/sema-2007-1-000-hp-propane-cheve... |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | and let's not forget they're "engineered in the U.S." ... we are talking green here right? we could always open up another can a worms ...
time for the environmentalists among us to punt ...
edit: ... so, i'm sure there is a market for propane ice-augers, just don't embellish it to the point that it becomes unbelievable.
over-selling can a deterent. |
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | Jackson,
Not sure what brand or what retailer you can get a gas powered auger for $125, but if I was you I'd buy all they have and resell them. The cheapest gas Strikemaster I can find is $329 and the cheapest jiffy is $309. Strikemasters comparable gas powered 4 stroke is $549 compared to $499 for Jiffy's propane powered 4 stroke. So if your someone in the market for a new 4 stroke auger, you'd actually be paying less for the propane model than you would for a gas model.
Sled,
you are completely missing the point I was making. I wasnt saying it was "green" so thats a great thing about it. I was saying there is an automatic animosity amongst part of our population that they show towards anything THEY view as "green" or feel is marketed in such a manner.
Notice the way you felt a need to bring "engineered in China" and EA decided to throw in his feelings about electric cars and those who drive hybrids etc. Now tell me how some dont have an "animosity" or whatever you would want to call it, towards such things. SOME seem to view anything seen as "green" as akin to tree hugging wolf petting granola eaters, so it just HAS to be bad.
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i saw the auger, i've understood the selling points and truly see where this product fits some fishing, transport and use.
then, in defense to challenges i've seen it "oversold" for lack of a better word. weight, conditions of use and other variables support the very fact jiffy has a complete product line and not solely propane-powered 4-strokes. if you want to learn about which model fits you best, just talk to a qualified jiffy representative who is not "mis-representing" their product. the discussion on this thread has hovered on the boundary of the absurd ... i'm simply calling it that.
my personal choice is different than yours and that's why there are red ones, yellow ones, aqua blue ones, light ones, heavy ones, electric ones, gas and propane ones. but please don't tell me that one auger is going to change the planet please ... an admitted embellishment, but not far off-base.
God i hope the humans don't get in line behind the lemings in my lifetime.
and castmaster, you are one poster ... no harm done toward me so no need to apologize. i'm debating the subject and not any particular person. always the best policy not to throw b.s. to a group of b.s.'ers though. |
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Posts: 232
Location: Sun Prairie, WI | One hundred of those little tanks, equals over $ 200, and alot of little metal tanks laying around in a land-fill or someother place. Yes, they are ez to use and sometimes the best thing available, but I use a 20lb. tank that I exchange when mt. and costs between $ 12.95 to $ 19.95. Lasts all season in the deer blind with my Buddie heater.
Another issue is the fact that some people will end up leaving the mt tanks on the ice like they do their garbage now. (I know no one on this forum would ever do this, but we have all seen it)
This product does have its place, but is not for everyone, just another tool to be used. |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | In a way this is almost like the debate between 2-stroke and 4-stroke outboards!
I agree with the last post. |
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| Sled, we get your a Strikemaster user, that's fine, so why all the drama on this one? The Pro 4 is another option, like it or not, more options the better in my opinion.
The arguing and debating on this topic has to be one of the silliest I've ever seen on this website. I don't get why everyone has lost their mind over a new auger. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | This is one of those products that you can slap yourself in the face asking "why didn't I think of this". The biggest reason why my family never got a gas auger is because the gas was always such a pain in the butt. Great idea! |
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