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Posts: 7077
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | KenK - 4/6/2010 3:57 PM
I don't oppose people catching fish, but I do oppose the keep. Making it easier without limiting the harvest isn't good for the resource. I too enjoy the serenity of casting a quiet bay without a guy with the shore to shore spread going on. It may work well on larger lakes in Minnesota, but not the little puddles in Wisconsin. To just pose the question of opening up all lakes to trolling is just irreponsible, especially when the DNR has no idea of how many fish are being kept! They have no hard numbers, they are going by hearsay too!
If I were to propose a 5 year moratorium on muske fishing so that the DNR can more closely examine muskie populations for the purpose of gatherin better information in which to base their recommendatios for fisheries management....would you vote "yes" to this? |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Hypothetical situation: You get up early one morning to fish the famous Flambeau River in Price county. Very little shoreline development, loons and 'rats swimming around, you almost feel like you've stepped back in time. Then some yahoo with the world's quietest bow mount approaches. His bait and his partner's bait flying into the water shoreline to shoreline and everywhere in between. He might pause a cast when he passes but he'll cast again once he gets by.
What is your point? People will be inconsiderate of you if they are inconsiderate in general.
Simply because you can troll, does not make it an easier method. I actually find casting to be much easier.
My guess is the DNR may have just a bit more 'hard' numbers than you do. Feel free to produce the email, I'd be interested in reading it.
I also find the notion that if trolling was allowed that people will flock to every 300 acre puddle and turn it into a Nascar track with planar boards. Are people staying off of these lakes because trolling is illegal? |
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Posts: 406
Location: Stones throw away...finally!! | jonnysled - 4/6/2010 3:15 PM
Ever live on a lake?
No, but what's your point.
I live on a street and cars are driving by, does that have any effect on anything? |
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Posts: 444
| Ever see a cocktail crusier trolling for Muskies? I fish Minnetonka in MN which has thousands of c.c crusiers on any given day and a handfull of small lakes in N. WI were trolling is legal and never have I seen a cocktail cruiser trolling for Muskies.... Never.
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Posts: 1270
| I'll be voting yes on all of the trolling questions. All the arguments about trollers being rude can be carried over to casters as well. Have you ever been trolling a shoreline and hada guy run up 50' in front of you and start casting? It goes both ways. As for protecting the row trolling tradition what a crock! They can still row troll all they want, no one would be stopping them. If you don't want to troll then don't but why limit my way of fishing because you don't like it? I'm not keeping any of the muskys just like you so I'm not hurting the resource anymore than you are.
Or how about we allow trolling only on all lakes over 1000 acres and not allow casting, would that make you guys happy? |
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Posts: 406
Location: Stones throw away...finally!! | jonnysled - 4/6/2010 3:27 PM
Slamr - 4/6/2010 3:21 PM
Here's a question for those of you who oppose trolling in this measure: are you opposing trollng so that people DONT catch fish?
no ... i'm opposed for 1. the (3 ) line trolling with multiple guys on a lake with a single weed-edge or a handful of spots, 2. to protect the tradition of row-trolling, 3. to not be consistent with other means of justification (torch to generator powered spotlights ) of "tradition", 3. recreational "trollers" out for a pontoon party cruise and 4. selfishly because i like things the way they are at least until they can effectively solve some of the other more urgent needs like increasing limits and effectively stocking and protecting what we already have.
not including muskies ... the already low and aweful walleye population will basically be done for.
1. Move to a lake with more weedbeds or more than a handful of spots...why is that anyone elses problem but yours, you picked the lake.
2. You're kidding right...if not, keep doing it.
3. Ya, because that happens pretty often, and with great success. I'm sure they would devastate a fishery. I can see it now..." Hey Bob, move the grill to the front deck so I can get to my 6 rods would ya."
4. No need to even argue this one. Sellfish speaks for itself. As far as the other issues, not against you on that, but everywhere has it's own "political" battles. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | pointer ... ask the dnr about the deer herd? ... and now we expect them to be capable of counting stuff in the water ... lol
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Editor's Note: The Spring netting surveys are underway now in Oneida county. Since nets are used (as many as is necessary) as the fish come in to spawn, and every single fish is hand counted, the differences between the deer herd estimates methodology and that of the fisheries estimates is obvious.
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reelman ... yes, there is a logical way to go about this based on the selection process of the lakes
"living on a lake" ... not until you see what happens every day on a lake will you get a clear picture of what can be done to truly exploit a body of water. you might be surprised ...
we're not talking strictly muskies here either folks. let's not forget how about the abundant (ouch i bit my tongue-in-my-cheek) walleye population in northern wisconsin can benefit by more pressure with tactics like trolling.
in a list of 40 important things ... trolling of muskies shouldn't even make the list.
northern wisconsin isn't worth trolling ... just a bunch a backwards hicks and lakes with inferior strain muskies, indians that spear and locals that bake everything they catch. |
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Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | Reelman makes a good point.
It definitely does and can go both ways. I just personally prefer casting to trolling. But as mentioned, I've definitely witnessed a "caster" cut off and strong arm a guy trolling to keep his edge. But I've just personally witnessed more individuals trolling who are "jerks" (for lack of better terminology) than I have individuals casting. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | So what the wildlife section does goes hand in had with what the aquatics section does? They are not the same employees. Take a look at the sturgeon work the WDNR has done. They are pretty #*^@ good at what they do there, even with the main harvest being (gasp) spearing!
So by living on the lake you've talked to every angler entering and exiting the water, every single day and know exactly how many fish were harvested and by what method they were using? I guess if you were the only one living on the lake I'd buy that.... |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | marshall ... your paradigm may be based on a few weekends or a week a year? consider the possibility there might be others who see it from an altogether different perspective.
there really i suppose is no "right" answer. it's not a riddle, it's not a question with right or wrong answers, it's a question of preference and thankfully the laws about trolling are written to support the way i would like it from the view i'm thankful to have as a resident of the oneida/vilas county proper.
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | you see what happens at night, from pontoons, what washes up on shorelines, what runs off of lawns, what gets raked, spilled etc... ... pointer, you love to argue and it's evident. there are things that aren't seen by vacationers, by weekenders, by one or two week a year and also by those who don't or haven't ever lived on water ... you might be surprised even in your vast wisdom of fisheries. |
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Posts: 457
Location: Minneconia | jonnysled - 4/6/2010 3:27 PM
Slamr - 4/6/2010 3:21 PM
Here's a question for those of you who oppose trolling in this measure: are you opposing trollng so that people DONT catch fish?
no ... i'm opposed for 1. the (3 ) line trolling with multiple guys on a lake with a single weed-edge or a handful of spots, 2. to protect the tradition of row-trolling, 3. to not be consistent with other means of justification (torch to generator powered spotlights ) of "tradition", 3. recreational "trollers" out for a pontoon party cruise and 4. selfishly because i like things the way they are at least until they can effectively solve some of the other more urgent needs like increasing limits and effectively stocking and protecting what we already have.
not including muskies ... the already low and aweful walleye population will basically be done for.
Be a man about it Sled. Didn't you give up muskies for panfish anyway? Rest assured no one will be out there draggin Beetle Spins and Swedish Pimples so I think you're OK. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | the walleyes might be the most affected by such a legislation. show me a reduction in spearing numbers or restriction on certain lakes and then lets talk about trolling for walleyes. |
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Posts: 32924
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | . pointer, you love to argue and it's evident.
Pot...
Yes kettle? |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | There's alot of the same arguments for keeping spearfisherman off Cass, you have thousands of lakes you can spear, go there, don't do it here. People who don't live or fish here don't really have an argument. You don't understand that there are people here that keep EVERY single muskie they catch. I can't stop that but I can make them work to do it rather than troll around with with 6 suckers on single hook rigs. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | now steve ... and, yes you might be correct LOL, the trolling of Wisconsin's Northwoods is a subject with many variables and dynamics that you and i have discussed at length. knowing the waters and the situations is paramount to being in a discussion that would understand the multiple angles that will approach it. we know that, and therefore it's a tough one to have out there as a general argument.
our boy pointer with his trolling skills evident by i think 2 50" class fish to his merits (HAY, put the beer down and grab this kid) is having fun from as far as UTAH stirring this pot of chili that's started to cook.
i'm just here to add my ingredients and watch the pot get stirred like always.
thank God tradition has been upheld to my 46th year in the counties of Vilas and Oneida ... i can only hope it continues and until then there are indeed bass to be caught and crappies to slay and pike to ice ... and dumb muskies to cast to. if you can't physically cast for reason of a handicap, go get a permit so that you can troll. otherwise, if you aren't physically strong enough to cast all day ... the sport might not be for you ya sally :0) |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | Trollers are so loud....really. So how about allowing 4 strokes to troll?
Does somebody have a real argument against trolling??
Trollers and casters exist peacefully side by side on the local fish factory in Madison...330 acres. Tons of people casting and trolling the lake all year. We don't have noise pollution problems and as far as I can tell nobody has killed anybody yet.
I would vote yes. I have always thought the no trolling thing in Wisconsin is absurd. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | And no motor boats in the boundary waters is stupid, too.
I understand trolling is an effective way to catch muskies. I frequently do it on lakes where it's legal. I also work in a bait shop where a 1/3 to 1/4 of the people that come in plan on either keeping every legal fish or use single hooks and sort through little ones till they get a wallhanger. You can't compare other fisheries where C&R is common to N. WI. where kill rigs are common.
If trolling is legalized this October is going to be a bloodbath. |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | It sounds like you should get on board with a musky stamp or higher size limits to help limit the harvest in your neck of the woods.
I fail to see the connection between trolling and keeping fish.
I'd be more worried about guys using single hook sucker rigs. |
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| As I posted on another board.
I would be for it on lakes over say 1000 acres.
Under that, especially under 500 acres no way. Someone said we would police ourselves but I disagree. Common courtesy for some reason has gone out the window the last several years, and I think trolling will add to the already poor decisions some are making on the water. I have been on the Fox River in GB casting, and I can tell you I have had trollers be disrespectful to my casting area to the point I could have landed lures in their boat, and snagged their line that was running by on a planer board.
Not saying all people trolling are jerks. Some are, just like some casters. I just feel tempers will flair more when I am working a deep weedline and a boat comes trolling through running their boards fairly close to me. Their boat doesn't need to be that close with the use of planer boards and thus they may not care where their board runs.
I also don't want to be drifting a basin and have some boat come through with a spread of 6 lines just downwind of me crossing my drifting pass. They may not fish my exact drift line, but have just covered a ton of the water I intend to fish and in essence cut me off similar to cutting someone off on structure.
Biologically I am not too concerned. Socially and morally I am concerned of what I may see on lakes especially the small ones. If it comes down to trolling is going to happen, then I would also like to see a one line type of thing, or even maybe two lines like MI. Just not three per person.
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| No offense Sled, but you should find some other lakes if you think the walleye populations are poor up there. I don't consider catching 30+ walleyes a day poor, and is common on some lakes up there if you find the right ones. Also the spearing deal is more, and in they take a pretty small portion of fish compared to anglers. Look into how many walleye they spear from Kentuck each year. Then find out how many walleyes were removed from there by anglers during the creel survey. The number may stagger you! |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | Still do really well on eyes but most who don't know or aren't willing to search should have more options. Spears just one means and pale in comparisson to what happens through the ice. |
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Posts: 285
Location: NE Wisconsin | jonnysled - 4/6/2010 4:45 PM
"living on a lake" ... not until you see what happens every day on a lake will you get a clear picture of what can be done to truly exploit a body of water. you might be surprised ...
In all the years I have been surfing these sites, the above statement is the best by far, I have ever read. I have lived for 60 years on the same lake. Not only do I live on the lake, I also work at the lake. My second story bar picture window is less the 20 ft from the lake. I am at the lake virtually all day every day, all year. Except if I am fishing, somewhere else. You can see what, when, who and how a lake can be exploited, if you are watching every day. You would surprised if you were there everyday, all day, spring, summer, fall and winter!
Edited by Johnnie 4/6/2010 9:09 PM
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| So the argument against trolling is basically that people are rude and will troll too close to weedlines that others are fishing? That's really valid reason to ban a fishing method???
Sorry, but there really aren't any valid arguments against trolling. Not biologically, nor from any common sense perspective.
Trolling doesn't cause rude behavior....
Trolling doesn't add any more noise to a lake...(if noise is a problem, you'll want to ban pontoon boats, as well as that 200HP outboard on the back of your buddy's Ranger)...
Trolling will not cause any significant increase to the harvest of muskies...
Seeing a boat trolling on "your lake" does not diminish the "outdoor aesthetics" any more than if that same boat was idling to it's next spot to start casting.
Bottom line is that a large, vocal contingency of anglers don't like trolling. And for that reason we have a regulation that restricts an angler's right to fish for fish in perfectly ethical manner, with absolutely zero adverse biological impact to the fisheries. Trolling is a legal and accepted fishing method everywhere else IN THE WORLD.
In this day and age, with declining numbers of anglers, diminishing numbers of fishing licenses sold, and more and more of the younger generations losing touch with the outdoors....do we really want to maintain regulations that RESTRICT our fishing opportunities?? Or, would it be smarter to support any efforts which provide GREATER ACCESS to fishing opportunities??
Think about it.
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Posts: 1270
| "If trolling is legalized this October is going to be a bloodbath."
Ya because on lakes that already allow trolling it's a blood bath already? I don't see any "blood bath" on LVD, The Chip, Grindstone, etc. that allow trolling. Why would it be different on these lakes? |
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Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | Guest - 4/6/2010 8:52 PM Seeing a boat trolling on "your lake" does not diminish the "outdoor aesthetics" any more than if that same boat was idling to it's next spot to start casting. Just like this entire discussion, that is one man's opinion. Nothing more. Destroying or diminishing outdoor aesthetics...? Let's not argue semantics. Someone who enjoys trolling clearly has a different view in which they enjoy their day on the lake than I do mine. There's nothing wrong with that but I think we've proven throughout this discussion that perhaps there is no scientific basis to argue why trolling should not be allowed. Scientific, theoretical or otherwise... it simply isn't my personal preference. That's the cool thing about this vote coming up on Monday. One person can vote how they choose. And I can choose how I vote.  |
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| Reelman...be careful about adding the Chip to your list of trolling lakes. There is NO trolling allowed on the Chippewa Flowage. |
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Posts: 32924
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'm going to vote.
I hope everybody here does too.
Trolling or no trolling, whatever. Show up and vote, and don't forget the other issues we need to address as Muskie anglers. |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | Not sure but have to consider a yes vote also. Have to think about it . I would like a size restriction on lakes that you could troll. let me tell you why now so you don't get all upset. ! line per angler. Many older musky anglers can't put in the hours casting as they once could. They still love to be on the water and catch fish. These are good anglers and release nearly all they catch. If trolling were allowed they could spend more hours doing what they loved,fishing. Now how can you not want that for them? |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | if i troll and have a wife/girlfriend who would otherwise be reading a book or sunning and a couple kids who might not be old enough to throw a bait ... will they be able to legally have "a rod" in a holder feeding line or three to a planer board? |
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