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Posts: 189
Location: Barrington, Il | Right on, Jason! |
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Posts: 4342
Location: Smith Creek | Try to get trolling legalized in Vilas or Oneida.
We have 6 and a half million acres of trollable water in Wisconsin. Like the CLIFS guys, "I know but I want to spear THERE"
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Posts: 1270
| Please vote YES on all the trolling questions! There is no biological reason for there not to be trolling. Minnesota has trolling on all their lakes and pretty much everybody agrees that they have a better fishery then we do. And yes I know MN only allows 1 rod but I don't see that making much of a difference especially with C&R as popular is now.
If you are so greedy as to not want trolling on your little lake then would you also be in favor of not allowing casting on the bigger lakes? |
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Posts: 1270
| The more I thought about it I wonder if it really matters how we vote on these issues. How many years have we voted yes to a higher size limit on Green Bay? The DNR will do what they want to regardless of how we vote. The feral cat issue is another one that we voted in and the DNR shot down. |
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Posts: 4342
Location: Smith Creek | MN lets their muskies get to spawning age before their eligible for harvest, too. There's no biological reason to allow harvest of an apex predator before spawning age.
I don't think people grasp how many muskies and walleyes in their prime get thumped or gut hooked in this area. |
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Posts: 576
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | As long as you can legally harvest 1 musky per day, 34 inches long, with a posession limit of 2.
As long as you can walk in to any bait shop and legally buy and use single hook sucker rigs.
As long as the natives are spearing spawning muskies.
As long as the DNR has substantially curtailed stocking due to budgets.
As long as the DNR cannot fully enforce the present rules due to budgets.
As long as there are new invasive species being found.
As long as there is insufficient population and harvest data.
Why would you open up an area to trolling?
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | KenK - 4/9/2010 8:30 PM
As long as you can legally harvest 1 musky per day, 34 inches long, with a posession limit of 2.
As long as you can walk in to any bait shop and legally buy and use single hook sucker rigs.
As long as the natives are spearing spawning muskies.
As long as the DNR has substantially curtailed stocking due to budgets.
As long as the DNR cannot fully enforce the present rules due to budgets.
As long as there are new invasive species being found.
As long as there is insufficient population and harvest data.
Why would you open up an area to trolling?
Why wouldn't you open that area to trolling? The above mentioned have NOTHING to do with trolling. The biggest harvest of muskies comes from non-muskie anglers and the tribes. Keep pushing the fear tactics, it works in politics so why not fisheries? I even read an article in the Lakeland Times today by John Detloff (who has a TON of credibility) saying trolling will expand the milfoil problem. Yeah, that makes sense, nice propaganda attempt from a guy who thinks higher size limits in NWI will kill tourism...
Ask the pioneers of C&R muskie fishing - Lindners, Bucher, Saric, Maina, what they think of trolling in NWI. Ask Jordan Weekes (highly respected biologist) what he thinks of trolling in NWI.
Where is the data showing that trolling has ever negatively effected a fish population? That's right, it doesn't exist. Oh yeah, 'We don't need data, we just know it will happen'. More selfish attitudes from people who 'don't like trolling'. Show some facts why trolling is bad. That's right, there are none.
Why will the largest concentration of lakes in the world be decimated by this sportfishing technique?
Doesn't make sense. The world used to be flat, too. Get out and vote 'yes' on Monday.
As always, keep'n it real....
JS |
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Posts: 1270
| Flamaue, trolling will result in LESS gut hooked fish. |
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Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | I don't understand...? It's a matter of personal preference, isn't it? Troll. Don't troll. Convincing someone they need to vote YES to trolling doesn't sound like it's any different than convincing me I should've voted for Obummer. ...oh, it's not? Funny. Because that's what it sounds like to me. Post some facts that trolling will benefit a fishery. Oh. Yeah. You can't. I'll post up some legitimate documentation that trolling will harm a fishery. Oh. Right. I can't. That's because it smells like a matter of personal opinion to me. That's the cool thing about voting. I don't need to justify why I'm voting the way that I am anymore than you need to justify your reasoning. The main thing is - we're voting. That's all that matters. |
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | 'It's a matter of personal preference, isn't it? Troll. Don't troll'
-Yes, same as MN or Canada. At least allow us that option
'Post some facts that trolling will benefit a fishery.'
-OK, Post some facts that casting will 'benefit a fishery'. Or that rowtrolling or sucker fishing actually 'benefit' a fishery. My exact point, you've proven it. Casting hasn't hurt a fish population anywhere, neither has trolling. But we ban one.
That's because it smells like a matter of personal opinion to me.
-So let's legislate against personal choice.
I realize I'm not going to change anyone's mind, but the old-school traditional bs across the board which keeps WI the most non-progressive state in the MW (in regards to MANY things) is very frustrating. I have nothing personal against those who disagree with me, and hope if you're ever up in the Minocqua area you drop me a line and we can go grab a brew and argue our points over a game of big buck hunter 
JS
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| The funny part of the debate is the largest fish are found in areas where trolling is the main way of fishing...I am not sure there is a trophy muskie lake or river that does not allow it...however you can find plenty of non trophy lakes that do not allow trolling....in WI...BR |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | BenR - 4/9/2010 10:20 PM
The funny part of the debate is the largest fish are found in areas where trolling is the main way of fishing...I am not sure there is a trophy muskie lake or river that does not allow it...however you can find plenty of non trophy lakes that do not allow trolling....in WI...BR
Ben,... Wrong..... Most of the trophy lakes in Wi. DON'T allow motor trolling..... I'm with J.Solan and J,Weeks on this one.
Didn't Mr. Gelb boat a few Trophys on non MOTOR trolling lakes?
There IS no data that proves that trolling will hurt a fishery !! Maybe limit rods to two per person........What ever......... Wi. muskie mgt. is messed up for sure.....What a shame.
Jerome
Jerome |
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| Top H2O - 4/9/2010 11:10 PM
BenR - 4/9/2010 10:20 PM
The funny part of the debate is the largest fish are found in areas where trolling is the main way of fishing...I am not sure there is a trophy muskie lake or river that does not allow it...however you can find plenty of non trophy lakes that do not allow trolling....in WI...BR
Ben,... Wrong..... Most of the trophy lakes in Wi. DON'T allow motor trolling..... I'm with J.Solan and J,Weeks on this one.
Didn't Mr. Gelb boat a few Trophys on non MOTOR trolling lakes?
There IS no data that proves that trolling will hurt a fishery !! Maybe limit rods to two per person........What ever......... Wi. muskie mgt. is messed up for sure.....What a shame.
Jerome
Jerome
Jerome, I was making the point that the world class fisheries for muskies around the world allow trolling. I don't think there are really any serious trophy fisheries in WI outside of GB. Point being that if you look at the places people go to catch mid to upper 50's, they troll. If those fisheries can survive I have no doubt the lakes in WI would be fine...Sorry you did not get the point, seems to a theme with you...BR |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Ben,
Your right, I didn't get your point,,,, maybe make your point a bit more clear the next time . Common sense is what I understand the most.
I missed your point ,again, sorry. I thought we were talking about Wisconson.
Jerome
Edited by Top H2O 4/9/2010 11:32 PM
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| Yes, I was pointing out how pretty much every other area of the muskie realm allow trolling and have far better trophy potential...hopefully that is clear for you...BR |
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| Sorry Jason, I will be voting NO on the trolling questions. A few reasons why.
I drool at the prospect of being able to attack basins, being able to keep my baits in the strikezone the ENTIRE time. Only limited to the amount of gas in my tank. Try to do that while casting. In basin fishing, trolling is a HUGE advantage.
6 line trolling? Ha, those who have trolled with me know if there is 4 guys in the boat we will be doing 12 lines. Try to do that casting.
I know Im not the only one that thinks this way, and will do it if legal. Most fisherman pound shoreline and docks. Trolling really isnt an option. How many 40lbers hauled out of the basins will get people thinking the other way. Look at the excitement Gelbs fish created. Now if everyone can do what hes doing with their motors and not their shoulders I would guess a lot more would be doing it. I know I would.
I also happen to be a guide. I would defiantly take advantage of this. Every person that goes through my boat would learn this. Would defiantly increase the catch rates for the neophytes. 9 lines for an accomplished troller, is much better than 3 lines casting between a guide and his two clients who have never worked a baitcaster before. With clients why would we even bother to cast anymore?
Trolling is already legal on every body of water in Wisconsin, its called row trolling.
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Posts: 4342
Location: Smith Creek | Anyone who wants trolling legalized should visit Butternut Lake in october and count the boats drifting aimlessly with 3 or 4 sucker floats. Some are quick sets, some are single hooks. If those single hook guys are allowed to troll they could easily waste half a dozen fish before they get their trophy.
BTW, I've spent plenty of time trolling Big V, LCO, and Grindstone, to name a few. To compare those lakes (big and deep, with 50" size limits) to the puddles in Price, Ashland and Sawyer is absurd. |
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| Flambeauski - 4/10/2010 9:06 AM
Anyone who wants trolling legalized should visit Butternut Lake in october and count the boats drifting aimlessly with 3 or 4 sucker floats. Some are quick sets, some are single hooks. If those single hook guys are allowed to troll they could easily waste half a dozen fish before they get their trophy.
BTW, I've spent plenty of time trolling Big V, LCO, and Grindstone, to name a few. To compare those lakes (big and deep, with 50" size limits) to the puddles in Price, Ashland and Sawyer is absurd.
I have been there and seen that.
Butternut is a ''pro harvest'' lake. And if you mean harvest by saying ''waste'' I can see your point. I was there last october and personally witnessed three sub forty inch caught and kept in one day. And witnessed some boats power trolling regardless of laws.
Power trolling will put more fish in the boat I think everone knows that.
The muskies in Butternut look good due to lower dencities. But over harvest in many lakes can happen quickly.
cpr ''ethics'' is stronger today than it has ever been in time. and that is great!
Personally I think there is room for harvest and that it can be benifical to some fisheries. This is a great topic that I dont have an answer for.
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Posts: 584
| "I drool at the prospect of being able to attack basins, being able to keep my baits in the strikezone the ENTIRE time. Only limited to the amount of gas in my tank. Try to do that while casting. In basin fishing, trolling is a HUGE advantage.
I know Im not the only one that thinks this way, and will do it if legal. Most fisherman pound shoreline and docks. Trolling really isnt an option. How many 40lbers hauled out of the basins will get people thinking the other way. Look at the excitement Gelbs fish created. Now if everyone can do what hes doing with their motors and not their shoulders I would guess a lot more would be doing it. I know I would."
Why is it that we don't want anglers to be able to effectively catch big fish in N. WI.?
With all the big fish destinations in MN and ONT and elsewhere, do we really want to legislate our resources to prevent anglers from catching big fish?
Edited by Matt DeVos 4/10/2010 12:00 PM
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Posts: 4342
Location: Smith Creek | Guest, when I said waste I was referring to fish caught on single hook rigs and released so the fisherman can continue fishing.
Mr. Sloan, you've spent enough time in a boat with Lijewski and I've finished behind him in enough tournaments to know he fishes for fish weekend warriors don't have the skill and determination to catch casting. Trolling will make a lot of those fish accessible to anglers that don't have the same C&R ethic that we share. If we can get size limits restructured I'd be more than willing to consider trolling on a lake by lake basis. |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Flambeauski,
'Trolling will make a lot of those fish accessible to anglers that don't have the same C&R ethic that we share.'
Those fish are accessible to all using currently legal tactics. Single hook rigs should be removed from all the stores, and if we collectively tell the stores that, they eventually will listen.
Let's do a better job of educating those folks. Minnesota allows trolling...right? Fishing's pretty good over there, even on the metro Lakes, I hear.
For trolling or against, at least keep the arguments real.
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Posts: 69
Location: Pittsburgh | Gentleman living in a state that allows trolling may I offer this perspective. Those that are the better than average casters are going to be the better trollers, location is always first. Courtesy has no technique. trolling successfully is by no means a easy way to catch fish consistently just as casting is not. I am absolutely convinced smaller bodys of water should be restricted, here it is a no motor rule. Only because a small lake is exactly that a small lake.I would take a look at the licence sales for the last 15yrs in your state ,if I were guiding, and see which way they were trending to see what should change to reverse negative trends. if someone could answer a ? I see these spearers using decoys is this legal for open water and ice fishing in wiscon, minn.
Edited by Simple fisherman 4/10/2010 5:10 PM
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Posts: 576
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | "Let's do a better job of educating those folks. Minnesota allows trolling...right? Fishing's pretty good over there, even on the metro Lakes, I hear. "
Steve, with all due respect, they also have higher size limits too. I think therein lies the better fishing part.
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Posts: 576
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | Steve,
One more time and then I'm done. What if the 34 inch limit is reinstated on Pelican and what if next year the DNR proposes opening up all waters in Oneida to motor trolling, don't you think those that feel "trophy fish are in the eye of the beholder and a person should be able to keep a musky if they wish" will now have yet another highly effective tool in their arsenal to do so? That's all I'm trying to say! I can't believe what I see every year.
I'm done, win or lose, please vote your conscience Monday! |
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| quit speculating (guessing) and look around for relevant examples to predict what will happen with trolling in place.
Pewaukee, Okauchee, Monona, Waubesa: all highly pressured urban waters with poor water quality and trolling is allowed.
in the case on Madison Chain lakes, the average size of fish caught has been steadily increasing ever since the minimum size limit was raised to 45".
heck, even Wingra which is more size-comparable to some of those northern ponds people are talking about, has seen an improving size structure with reduced stocking and a higher size limit. lots of trollers out there who manage to co-exist with casters and sailboats and kayaks.
how could those lakes maintain populations of good-sized fish if trolling is an "easy" way for people to rape the resource? because harvest isn't a result of technique, and trolling isn't an "easy" path to fish. a quasi-biological opposition to trolling is crap, imho.
for those who oppose it for reasons of "tradition", i'm okay with that. i disagree, but at least it's a real reason and i can understand it.
i'll vote "yes" for trolling, and i'll vote "yes" for any size limit increases that come up. for trolling because it increases opportunities, and for size limits because that's the real way to protect fish from harvest.
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Can't say it better than that. |
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | This is actually a really good example of a debate.
I'm pretty much done with it, said my piece, but to answer a question:
Yes, I've spent more time in the boat with Lijewski than I care to admit. Mark rarely fishes suspended muskies, so trolling wouldn't really effect the areas he targets.
Best of luck to everyone this season.
JS |
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Posts: 576
Location: Elk Grove Village, IL & Phillips, WI | OK, I said I was done, but again you are citing an example of a fishery where the mininum size is 45 inches, but the lakes in question have a 34 inch limit with a 50% at best C&R rate, the thumps can be heard far and wide.
Best of luck in 2010, nail a fatty!!
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Posts: 999
| Not to mention Lambeau what is the acreage on the Mad Chain lakes? Im all for trolling on select bodies of water but I feel size limits in northern Wi are a MUCH MORE IMPORTANIT ISSUE THEN TROLLING.
Mr Musky |
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Posts: 4342
Location: Smith Creek | lambeau - 4/10/2010 6:21 PM
how could those lakes maintain populations of good-sized fish if trolling is an "easy" way for people to rape the resource?
Easy, higher size limits, and excellent catch and release ethic, neither of which this area has.
I'm through with this as well, my final thought is I disagreed with the no trolling rule until I lived on a lake in Price for several years, and observed how the locals and tourists fished. I truly feel more muskies will be harvested if trolling is legalized.
If you weren't there then you don't know. |
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