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| Try a penn 975 or a tekota or a saltist side by side to a revo winch and you will see exactly what I mean by spool capacity. You get your line retriveal rates and the ease of realing in bigger baits with a bigger spool and low gear ratios, not low gear ratios and a small diameter spool. |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | guest - 5/7/2010 6:18 PM
purchased the revo toro 60 with the 5:4 gear ratio, If you guys are going to use the reel for pulling big blades I would suggest getting the Penn 975 or something with more spool capacity. Gear ratio really doesn't mean anything unless you have the spool capacity. Even with the winch style, your spool diameter is the same as the revo reel with 5:4 gears, you are not gaining anything more.
The Penn 975 has a line pickup of 20" the Toro 60 5.4:1 has a line pickup of 25" so on a cast of 30yds the Toro will start at 22-23" of line pickup and within 20ft will be almost 23-25" The Penn 975 on the same cast of 30yds will start at about 17-18" of line pickup, both have the same spool width, I don't get what you talking about ??? |
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| I am talking about the revo toro winch with the 21" pure handle turn. If you are using 80lb tuf line xp which is .o18 diameter with a full spool on the penn you are going to get more than 21" per handle turn than the revo with the smaller diameter spool. That is why guys are filling the Penn's over the rated amount of line to get more line retrivel which means bigger diameter spool. |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | I guess if you can overfill the Penn 975 spool by a inch or two,I would think that reel will backlash alot with a overfilled spool ??? and the Penn is a big reel which makes this reel hard to palm the reel, I think the Penn is 16oz and the TORO is only 11oz , The Toro has a main gear that is 40mm tall so the 5.4:1 ratio will pull DCG10-13 with ease all day long.
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Posts: 512
| What about the older model revo winch? the last model has only a 5.4:1 ratio.
Are you guys talking only about the new models??
thanks
Dave |
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Posts: 1270
| Dave, I think you are talking about the standard Revo Winch, not the Toro Winch model. The standard Winch is a great reel but it's a bass reel and it's just to small for all but the smallest musky presentations. |
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Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | PIKEMASTER - 5/7/2010 9:32 PM
I guess if you can overfill the Penn 975 spool by a inch or two,I would think that reel will backlash alot with a overfilled spool ??? and the Penn is a big reel which makes this reel hard to palm the reel, I think the Penn is 16oz and the TORO is only 11oz , The Toro has a main gear that is 40mm tall so the 5.4:1 ratio will pull DCG10-13 with ease all day long.
+1
Comparing a Penn 975 to a Revo Toro is apples and oranges. I love the profile of my Revo Toro and the lightweight set-up I've currently got. No fatigue whatsoever. I can yank in DCG's and Super Models all day long. Not sure I understand how overspooling a Penn 975 makes it a better reel for big blades. But to each their own... |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | The Penn Reels are old school work horse reels, very solid reels with S.STEEL GEARS but the TORO reels are a low profile reel that is 11oz, and U have a choice of size and ratio, very new school way of thinking, they both work you make the choice. |
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| Anyone know for sure if you can get the sunglasses via buying on ebay yet? Those are some good prices... |
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Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | longNtoothy - 5/8/2010 9:35 AM
Anyone know for sure if you can get the sunglasses via buying on ebay yet? Those are some good prices...
Yep.
I bought my Revo Toro (5.4:1) and Revo Toro HS (6.4:1) both on eBay. Sent in my Paypal receipts along with the submission form. Both of my personal checks for the rebates were processed and cashed by Abu-Garcia... so I'm assuming they wouldn't have processed and cashed my checks if the rebate forms were null and void.
I looked at the status online of both my rebates and they both say: "PROCESSED".
I should have my sunglasses any day now. |
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Posts: 774
Location: South East Wisconsin | I have a Toro Winch there is no problems throwing DCG’s. Matter of fact can’t you just spool the reel half way and that will bring your ratio down? I think a lot of it has to do with torque on the reels. |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | Esox-Hunter - 5/8/2010 11:17 AM
I have a Toro Winch there is no problems throwing DCG’s. Matter of fact can’t you just spool the reel half way and that will bring your ratio down? I think a lot of it has to do with torque on the reels.
NO The power comes from the gears, the spool size helps with line pickup, so if you only fill your Toro Winch half way you still have a 4.6:1 gear ratio/ gears but your line pickup is now only maybe 12-15" per turn of the handle. |
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Posts: 774
Location: South East Wisconsin | Interesting, in a recent conversation that I had about these reels I was told that. Maybe they were wrong I don’t know. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | Guest, etal, I'm still thinking that the gear ratio of the reel COMBINED with the spool diameter is what makes the difference in how much torque you FEEL at the handle. The line you are bringing in is the "work," no matter how you slice it. You could have a low gear ratio with a huge spool that would bring in a lot of line per crank, or a high gear ratio with a very small diameter spool that would bring in very little line per crank. If both bring in the same amount of line per crank, you are doing the same amount of "work." The only difference then in how the reel feels is how much leverage you have (how long the handle is).
If you underfill any reel, it will be easier to turn the handle, but the bait won't be coming in as fast. Overfilling a reel? I don't think you can really do that without some major problems.
curleytail
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Posts: 8782
| No matte what you do with the line you can't change how many times the spool goes around per each full turn of the handle -- that is determined by the dear ratio of the reel, and remains constant. Line pickup is NOT constant, because you will be reeling less line per turn at the far end of a cast. |
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Location: Hayward, WI | esoxaddict - 5/8/2010 3:34 PM
No matte what you do with the line you can't change how many times the spool goes around per each full turn of the handle -- that is determined by the dear ratio of the reel, and remains constant. Line pickup is NOT constant, because you will be reeling less line per turn at the far end of a cast.
EA, I agree with you there. However, would you say that a 6.1 ratio reel with say a 1 inch spool diameter (measurement with spool filled) will reel in line the same speed and with the same level of work that a 6.1 ratio reel with a 2 inch diameter spool (also the measurement of the filled spool)? Even though the amount of line pickup changes changes constantly during the cast, the reel with the bigger diameter spool will bring in more line, and also be harder to crank, even though both reels have the same gear ratio.
Think of it this way. Your truck's rear end has a 3.73 gear ratio. If you put stock sized tires on it, it has a certain amount of get up and go, and the speedometer and odometer are right on. If you put great big tall tires on there, the TRUCK still has the same gear ratio, but it will be going farther and faster than the odometer and speedometer say because the tall tires cover more distance per revolution. You might also notice a "loss" of power. Every time the rear end takes one revolution, it works a little harder because it has to move the truck farther than it did before with smaller tires.
SOOOO.... in a way, underspooling your reel would have the same effect of a lower gear ratio. It would bring baits in slower and easier. But, there would be other negatives to that also, like shorter casting distance. All I am trying to say is that what REALLY matters is the gear ratio COMBINED with spool diameter (and I guess width, because the wider to spool, the less the diameter will change on a cast, so the line retrieval rate will stay a little more constant throughout the cast).
Or, we could just go buy a reel, fish with it, and see what we think... 
curleytail
Edited by curleytail 5/8/2010 4:23 PM
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | So why does a Trinidad that has a 6.3:1 gears and a spool twice the size of a Toro bring in DCG10-13 so easy ????? |
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| This is exactly what I am talking about, it so easy not because of gear ratio but spool diameter, width unlike the revo toro winch!!!! I just think that the revo is not going to hold up to the big blades and pounders like these other reels have proven to hold up. |
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Posts: 393
Location: Hopefully on the water | I will agree on the diameter thing. As Curlytail mentioned with the tire thing. The bigger the diameter (of ANY reel) wether it it line diameter or spool diameter it will be the fastest at the end of a retrive. Gears will will help determine how hard the reel has to work to get this done. The Penn and Saltists (depending on what series) do have some big differenfesin line pick up. But I am not going to throw a Penn 975 or Saltist 40 all day long. The Revo Toro's are a ton lighter in weight and comfort and will prove themselves over time IMO. To me the biggest thing is comfort, and having your spool filled to the max to get the most out of the reel. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | PIKEMASTER - 5/8/2010 4:54 PM
So why does a Trinidad that has a 6.3:1 gears and a spool twice the size of a Toro bring in DCG10-13 so easy ?????
Because it has a LONG power handle - much longer than any standard reel. Unless I am missing something, this has to all be physics. The more line that comes in per crank, the "harder" you would have to work. You can offset how much torque you feel by putting a longer handle on it.
Case in point - I had a hard time bringing in a standard #8 bucktail with a stock Okuma paddle handle. Put a power handle on it, and I could crank double 10's all day with ease. The line pickup and gear ratio didn't change, but the handle length and design did. The same, or more, speed (and thus power) was being generated at the reel, but the handle made it feel easier.
curleytail
Edited by curleytail 5/9/2010 7:42 AM
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | I not sure but I think the main reason is the Main Gear size/Dia, take a ABU 6500 has a main gear that is only 30mm tall/dia , A Luna 300 31mm tall/dia, a Okuma 31mm tall/ dia, Calcutta B 31mm tall/dia so the pinion has to be very small in Dia. Now a Calcutta TE has a 38mm dia/ tall main gear, Toro 40mm dia/tall main gear Trinidad 41mm tall/dia main gear, so the pinion gears are alot bigger and there is where I think the power comes from in a reel. Take a 10 speed bike the Taller/Dia the rear gears and the smaller the front gears are the harder it is to peddal, increase the size of the front gear the easy it is to peddal. The bigger the main gears the bigger the pinion gears and that makes a reel easy to reel in.
The length of the handle will give you more power not torque and the spool dia will determined the line pickup and has nothing to do with torque or power I think not sure about that. |
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Posts: 1716
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | PIKEMASTER - 5/9/2010 9:10 AM
The length of the handle will give you more power not torque and the spool dia will determined the line pickup and has nothing to do with torque or power I think not sure about that.
The rest of your physics is correct. However Torque is defined as force multiplied by distance. Distance here being the length of the handle. A longer handle will in fact yield higher torque on the main gear because the lever arm (crank) is longer.
The same is also true with the spool diameter. A higher amount of torque is needed to pull (when rotating about the center) when the spool diameter is increased. Torque is force times radius, when rotated about the center or pinion gear. |
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Posts: 1270
| I think you would be surprised if you actually measured the distance from the pivot to the paddle on a power handle versus a double handle. On Abu's it's virtually the same distance. The ease has to do with the actual paddle being bigger and allowing more fingers on it. |
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Posts: 906
Location: Canada | reelman - 5/9/2010 1:13 PM
I think you would be surprised if you actually measured the distance from the pivot to the paddle on a power handle versus a double handle. On Abu's it's virtually the same distance. The ease has to do with the actual paddle being bigger and allowing more fingers on it.
The power handle for my C4was noticeably longer. The single paddle that comes with the Toro is the same length as the double paddle handle. |
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Posts: 25
| Center of spindle to center of paddle lug is 2 inches on the power handle and 1 1/2 inches on the double handle. This was measured on a 6500 series. I too think that most of the extra power comes from the larger paddle. |
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Posts: 512
| So 4.6 or 5.4??
Dave |
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Posts: 512
| So 4.6 or 5.4??
Dave |
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Posts: 512
| So 4.6 or 5.4??
Dave |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | PIKEMASTER - 5/9/2010 9:10 AM
Take a 10 speed bike the Taller/Dia the rear gears and the smaller the front gears are the harder it is to peddal, increase the size of the front gear the easy it is to peddal.
You are right there, but now we are just talking gear ratios again. If you doubled the height of both the front and rear gears, the gear ratio would be the same, and the ease of peddling would be the same, as would the speed.
I've asked this question before of WHY having large, tall, gears is a benefit. From a pure physics point of view, the size of the gears shouldn't really matter. It's the size of the two gears relative to each other that matters. I'm wondering if the taller gears can just have the teeth cut deeper and be more durable? Maybe there's some other variable I am missing, like friction or something, but I can't see what it would be.
I still think that to crank in say 25" of line per crank, a certain amount of "work" has to be done, whether that means a low gear ratio with a big spool or a high gear ratio with a small spool. It takes a certain amount of "work" to move a bait 25" per crank at a certain speed, no matter what. The biggest difference the angler will feel depends a lot on the handle length and type of knob on that handle (I agree, the bigger knob helps a lot on power handles too, not just the length).
Interesting topic to debate I guess.
curleytail
Edited by curleytail 5/9/2010 2:36 PM
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Posts: 512
| So 4.6 or 5.4??
Dave |
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