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Posts: 688
Location: Northern IL | The way I see it is most fisherman/ trollers arn't getting the answers they should be getting or they don't know the purposes behind making a trolling pass.
Let me just say if your trolling Green Bay, St Clair, or similar type waters, Milwaukee harbor ect, with very few depth changes and you have located hard clean areas, rock humps, slight depth change edges ect. and you're running the boards/ flat lines ect your probably doing it right. However, these are some of the last places I would ever take anyone new to trolling, but unfortunately this is how most of the fishing world views trolling.
The greatest troller who ever lived Buck Perry, said "it normally took him about 4 days to put a "new" lake in his back pocket. This was with no map, no gps or any of the so called high tech equipment or gadgets we have
today. What he used was a small tiller boat, a few lures designed to run at exact depths, (spoonplugs) and later on built himself the 1st green box, (flasher).
Another thing he said was "Trolling is the teacher". Trolling correctly teaches us the bottom make up, it shows us the true contours and the shape of the structure being fished, Anyone who trolls knows those gps maps at times are not even close! Trolling teaches us migration routes, and most importantly for all loyal casters,, it teaches us "where" to cast. If you call yourself a troller and aren't aware of some of these things, you are not a troller, your dragging baits around hoping to get lucky!
A good troller after a day on the water can draw a map of what he has learned, he knows at what depth the drop off (deepest breakline) takes place, he knows if there are multiple breaklines or just one, he know the depth of the base breakline, he knows if it's sand, rock or covered with shells, he also knows where the fish 1st make contact and the route they take to the shallows on the structure, still calling yourself a troller? Sounds boring doesn't it?
Once the fisherman learns how to troll and the purposes behind "A" trolling pass, a knowledgeable troller at the end of a day or week can point his finger in the water and say "if a fish is going to be caught the chances are extremely good that it will come right here, casting or trolling." Satisfaction? Absolutely!
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Posts: 8835
| fair chase - 11/26/2009 12:31 PM
Trolling is a lazy mans sport. clearly. A lot easier way to fish than casting.
Yeah, that casting can be difficult... You have to train for that #*#* for YEARS, man. And the ice packs, the pain killers, the injuries, surgeries, cortizone shots, the stress fractures, torn ligaments, broken bones... Oh wait, we're talking about fishing, not rugby or hockey or football...
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| Holy smokes...I must say I'm impressed on people's passion for trolling. There have been some good points made about techniques and what not. Believe me, I wouldn't kick a 50 plus out of my rig if I caught it trolling. I would probably have 90% more satisfaction if I caught it casting, but that's just me. I couldn't just sit in a boat for hours on end unless the packers were on the radio and I had an endless supply of delicious coffee.... |
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Posts: 299
Location: Nowheresville, MN | Is there any satisfaction in trolling? No. |
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| How ironic that he is trolling around the boards and caught you all on a trolling topic.....well played sir! Well played.....
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Posts: 20255
Location: oswego, il | Suckers are taboo, so is trolling now we can't even take any pictures of fish under 40", oh well, I have to delete my 13 year olds photo of his 37"er, shoot, I have to go visit some bass message boards I caught some of those this year, crap, I even cought a few drum, catfish and carp this year on crankbaits, I have no idea if I am fishing correcty for anything!   |
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Posts: 556
| ToddM--I'm with you on that--I guess the only fish that count anymore are over 40" and only if I catch them casting---But casting what kinds of baits--Do I have to use bucktails or can I use a jerkbait?? what about Topwater--only in the summer???? This relaxing hobby of mine--fishing for Musky is getting complicated. I find this whole thing CRAZY--guys can't even post pics of fish they have caught anymore because someone will rip them about the size, girth, the way it's being held, if it was netted, what body of water it was caught on, the method used to catch it--- It really is Nuts!!! |
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| Here is my take...I 100 % agree that it is an art and a skill to troll properly. There are guys that are outstanding at it. That is great. BUT, for me a big part of muskie fishing, is feeling the initial hit. I need that. I just don't have a desire to troll. So I am happy for people who troll and have great success. But that is not for me. As much as I respect trollers, I hope they can do the same for me. I just don't find it appealing. If it means you catch more fish than I do..I can live with that. |
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Posts: 618
Location: Michigan | jerryb said it!!! I would much rather cast, but trolling definitely teaches you tons about the lake and tells you where to cast. Everyone on here should read Buck Perry's book as it teaches you TONS. I don't troll, but I know a handful of spoonpluggers and trolling isn't just sitting back listening to radio and drinking coffee. It was amazing to see how well these spoonpluggers can read a map and know where the fish are going to be. I gave a casting presentation to a spoonpluggers group and marked a map of 'hot spots' that I had learned about over the course of 3-5 years. After my presentation they put up a map that a spoonplugging instructor marked without ever fishing the lake and the maps were almost identical. |
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | There is alot of skill associated with trolling. I never really thought so until being outfished on my favorite river every single time by a particuarly skilled angler. There can be 75 boats on the water and this guy will be in the top two every time. He focuses on speed, depth, location, lure color, and experience. His speed changes by time of year, the lure color may change daily. Sometimes he trolls in 80' of water and sometimes only 5' of water. To be really good at trolling is not nearly as easy as it sems and like any other kind of fishing to become very good at it would certainly generate a certain amount of satisfaction. I would rather catch a huge fish casting but I will take two fish trolling over one casting.
RM
Edited by RiverMan 11/27/2009 8:12 PM
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Posts: 1462
Location: Davenport, IA | I think trolling is more work than casting personally. Boat control is just as difficult, if not worse trolling. You have to constantly check your baits for weeds...whereas casting you can feel them and shake them off. It is a lot easier to control one line than multiple. Also, a lot of casting is done with structure. If you are trolling for suspended fish there is more things that are out of your control. You have to learn more about using electronics. I do prefer to cast over troll. I have caught more fish casting, but I do love the excitement of that clicker going off. If you want to be the best angler out there, then you need to be good at both. I think you will see a bigger difference in the number of fish caught amateur vs. pro trolling than you'll see amateur vs. pro casting. |
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Posts: 203
Location: Alexandria, Minnesota | All I can say is that if trolling is not part of you arsenal then you are missing out on alot of fish. I boated a fish for a guy that was 87 years old this year. If I did not have a good trolling pattern for him. He would not have been able to cast more then maybe one or two spots. Also with all of the fishing pressure that our lakes are seeing here in Minnesota, I think trolling gives you some advantages over casting. 1. You are able to present your lure in front of more active fish. 2. It allows keep the lure further away from your boat which allows you to catch those fish that might be boat shy. |
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Posts: 91
| To the detractors. I, like most good muskie anglers I know pay their dues on more than one body of water and with more than one technique. Each of which has it's own upsides and downsides. I have spent time on water from the Great Plains to the Canadian Shields. While I hope to be good at this I would prefer to be lucky, and if you are are the type of person to begrudge the lucky that is your own misfortune. |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | I have great satisfaction in trolling because I'm catching fish you can't catch casting. I have even great satisfaction in knowing I've invested thousands of hours getting to know my lures, the lakes I fish, the fish I'm after, the boats I owned and how to use them.
If you can't cast, and troll, and fish live bait, you are no fisherman in my book. Each has its place and time. If you can't do them all and do them well, too bad for you!
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Posts: 1184
Location: Iowa Great Lakes | My preferd walleye tactic is trolling, flat out catches fish but for some reason I just don't get the same excitement out of trolling muskies.While we do troll so we are far from good at it and can't seem to stick with it long enough to get good. Can't buy suckers here and don't take the time to get our own so we cast cast cast and troll between spots or back to start a new drift. I know several good trollers in the area and at seasons end we normaly have 2x's the numbers they do but also possibly spend way more time on the water than they do. We don't have the suspending baitfish you northern guys do our baitfish are gamefish and they stay in or near the weeds. Different waters different tactics. |
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Posts: 2361
| LOL, come back to find this predictable thread going.
ie somebody baits the trollers, and then they get on here glorifying the knowledge and tactics of trolling. funny stuff.
I wouldn't say trolling is very satisfying(responding to the original question), though it can be somewhat interesting when you pop fish up off the bottom in shallow water situations. But, c'mon guys, muskies hit free swimming baits, they suspend, they are held captive by temperature, and oxygen availability in many lakes, and strict adherence to structure is not nearly the requirement it is for bass or walleye. So many cases where you just have to drive the boat around that it actually gets kind of silly discussing the whole thing. Sure you can get an 87 year old, or a 7 year old, a muskie trolling, I mean heck, it IS that easy! |
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Jay,
You need to spend a day in the boat with Mark Courts or Doc Samson. Especially Doc, he'd amaze you and change your perspective in a hurry. |
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Posts: 2361
| Sworrall, if I was to begin WALLEYE fishing, and my main satisfaction was just derived from catching walleyes("like pulling in wet laundry"), I'm sure it would make a dent........but, LOL, you know me pretty well, you think my perspective is going to change in a hurry?? I mean.............really?
Here is a continuom to help rank musky trolling(it can be quite simple after all)...
ROCKET SCIENCE>putting your kids toys together for Christmas>balancing your checkbook>starting a small gas engine with a choke>assembling 100 piece kitten puzzle(Slamr hits right in here)>reading the captions in Playboy(ToddM)>fixing a 3 course meal with all 3 microwaved(firstsixfeet's highest level of attainment)>buttering bread>washing golf balls>musky trolling>bass fishing
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Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Jay,
Doc and Mark fish muskies too, and they are both very good at it. I originally met Doc on the Goon in about 1979.
Doc created a 3D map of the Anderson Island complex and the narrows opening to Contac for me while we fished the Goon a couple years ago. It was nothing short of amazing what I learned from that day on the water with one of the very best trollers and best in the world at fully utilizing electronics.
Some of the comments in his thread sort of remind me of a line from 'Men In Black'...you know, the one about the world being flat, etc.
And I bet KVD would argue your placement of Bass fishing. |
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Posts: 2361
| If Mr. VanDam starts posting on this thread I will probably bail, but...not until after I mention that I have caught smallmouth bass on corn when fishing for carp, and largemouth bass on rank cut bait lying on the bottom fishing for cats.
BTW, "size of a pea", that is your frequent argument, but now it is a technological challenge to beat the odds???
If one overstates the challenge, then one will likely overstate the skill involved in overcoming it. It all breaks down into very simple components I think, and it is not a complicated thing.
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Posts: 568
| Go Jay Go Jay Go Jay LOVED THE CHART ! and argee 100% but you left off crappies at the end LOL |
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Posts: 723
| there is no doubt in my mind that all trollers would love to catch fish casting. period!
theres nothing like the feel of the strike, hammering home the hooks, and bouts of headshakes and aerial acrobatics.
but.... whoever says trolling is easy, lazy, and mind numbing, you are just in the unknown there.
try running 9 lines and keeping from getting tangled, or keeping your baits clean and running where they should. All the while pounding 3-4 ft waves while you are half peeed up. thats living on the edge! hehe
Anyway, we fish GB a lot, and what it really comes down to is combing areas to find fish. the river has structure, which is able to be casted, and we cast whenever we get the chance, but if you want to put multiple fish in the boat, and im not talkn 2-3, im talkn double digits,
we will out produce any caster up there. hands down!
why? because its more effective, like said, I would much rather cast all day,
but if it means the difference between catching more skis, or not having any action at all. whats your choice?
isnt the point to catch fish? isnt the point to have a good time? isnt it about commradrery on the water? well I do believe us trolling does meet the same
outcomes of those benefits, only minus feeling the strike,
There is nothing boring about the rod screaming, nothing boring about a fish hitting a propwash bait with 4 ft of line out, and immediately going airborne.
nxt thing I know im staring eye to eye with a ticked off fish, yeah, if that doesnt get you going, you might as well switch to crack.
Yes weve had boring days on the water, like said GB this year has been pretty disappointing, I have tried casting it quite a bit, really tried to do something different than everyone else. It hasnt landed us a single fish or follow. Been very tough, but, the guys I know who pound it hard, put their time in, are ending up with some rather large fish, There hasnt been the extreme numbers this year, heck, not at all, but, Im sure anyone who's spent enough time on GB trolling knows what can happen on any given day.
It all boils down to catching fish, more fish, and making people happy.
I take a lot of friends out in my boat who arent the best casters, nor can they handle a 14 hour day of doing it, but, they are happy as hell when they get to take the rod, crank in something that theyve never caught before, and the whole while, really enjoy a great experience that they probably wouldnt have done sitting on the couch.
Oh, and heres one more for you! anybody that has a young kiddo, its a great way to get them their first musky, my daughter just turned 4 in august, she has 3 skis under her belt for the year. all 26-32, which was all made possible by trolling.
Attached is my buddies first ski, and my daughters 3rd. any questions?
Attachments
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 orys hog1.JPG (78KB - 172 downloads)
noras.JPG (79KB - 180 downloads)
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Posts: 581
| Trolling is just as easy and just as hard as casting can be. Once you've got a pattern down, and fish are "on", fish can come in bunches. True statement whether you are casting or trolling. It can also be equally difficult...whether you are going hours on end without a "rip" or without a follow or strike. Muskies are muskies, and they hit baits just as easily whether cast or trolled....just like they can be super-finicky.
Trolling can be just as boring or just as exciting as casting can be. Maybe this statement is true only in the "eye of the beholder", but thinking out a pattern and then applying it successfully is equally rewarding, to me, whether casting or trolling. It's true that it isn't exactly the same, the big difference being the amount of physical exertion. Casting for 10hrs straight will wear me down moreso than trolling for 10hrs. This is the issue that the non-trollers seem to hang their hat on in begrudging the trollers. However, I don't think the non-trollers understand that there IS an amount of physical exertion to trolling...it's not equal to casting, but it shouldn't be dismissed or discounted so easily. Also, there IS an amount of physical skill and mental skill involved in trolling that I'd argue is basically equal to casting. Bait selection, depth, speed, boat control, etc., are just as important in trolling vs. casting, if not moreso for the troller in some instances. The caveat to that is that boatside maneuvering via the figure 8 technique is the one area of our sport that requires THE MOST physical skill, in my opinion. And that is something that can't be practiced by trolling.
It's true that I'd prefer to catch fish casting, whenever I can. But I've had a lot of success trolling, and there are times when it is flat out the best way to catch fish. And since catching fish is the most fun way for me to spend time on the water, I'll often opt to troll when the situation calls for it.
To be honest, I don't understand why there's a need to compare the merits between the two techniques. Both methods have their time and place and both require a level of skill to do it correctly and successfully. Sure, any idiot can drag some lures behind a boat and catch a fish. Just like any idiot can cast and retrieve a black bucktail to/from a weedline and catch a fish....what's the point? And why the need to compare "skill levels"?
It would be "more challenging" and take "more skill" to catch muskies blindfolded and with a cane pole....but so what? |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Imo the guys that don't think trolling takes much skilll are the same guys that have never tried it and probably never caught a fish doing it...I might have said the same thing when I was new to the sport....but after trying to catch fish trolling and with not much luck I realize it does take a lot of thinking/work/skill to get fish in the net...try trolling the Madison lakes in the summer and you will quickly realize how "hard" it can be simply by constanty having to clear your lines/baits of floating weeds... there is a lot more that goes into trolling succesfully than one probably thinks about unless you try it....I'd rather catch fish casting to the point I rarely troll....but I know it is fun to hear the clicker go off...It's all about personal preference and what YOU enjoy...how much skill does it really take to set your boat up off a weed edge on the north end of Mille lacs and casting a double ten til your arm falls off....???? c'mon.
trolling, casting and live bait fishing all take as little skill or as much skill as you want to put into it...the guys that do it well are obviously putting more skill into it and getting more satisfaction from their success than the guys that suck ....
Matt says it pretty well above...
Edited by BNelson 11/30/2009 1:04 PM
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Posts: 2361
| I get it now, it is so difficult 2 year olds can't catch a fish trolling, only 3 or above?
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Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | I can honestly say, I am a lousy troller. I give huge props to anyone who is captain of the boat and catches a fish. It's freakin tough stay on the breakline consistantly. You need to know your structure, how your lure is running, ect. Tons of variables... |
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Posts: 59
Location: Aurora IL | Wow dogboy,what a fish! |
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Posts: 723
| boy thats a stab if ive ever read one!
my point was that i was able to get my daughter a few muskies this year by trolling, ever imagine a half pint getting yanked outta the boat by a muskie?
She took great pride in those fish, and didnt mind having to grab the rod when handed to her, crank it in, and smile for picks.
didnt bother her one bit cause now she's a musky fisher, only thing she was mad about was droppin her ring-pop in the water when it was go time....
I wouldve never been able to enjoy such a moment with her this soon in her fishing career had it not been for trolling.
and Shes 4 btw, the #3 is how many skis she has in 2 outings!  |
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Posts: 568
| my kid also caught her 1st at age 7 or 8 , a fine 48 incher . running a spread sounds more like great lake salmon than muskies but thats just my opinion , and that doesn't mean you are wrong and I'm right . it's just my opinion. MD |
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| "The greatest troller who ever lived Buck Perry"...funniest line i have read on m1.com all year! |
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