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Posts: 8775
| Update:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_great_lakes_asian_carp |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1... |
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Posts: 8775
| The plot thickens...
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/12/state-to-wage-chemical-w...
No carp? |
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Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN |
Read the comments below the article. Amazing how different our perspective is from theirs. Most people are saying "let the fish in." They are so ignorant.
Where can I donate to help out pay for more rotenone? Hit the reset button.
Edited by dtaijo174 12/3/2009 1:23 PM
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Posts: 8775
| Yeah, Chicago liberals, I tell 'ya. They want to save the poor fishies, because who are we to decide what swims where.
They forget about the fact that Asian Carp are an invasive, we brought them here, the Chicago River used to flow into Lake Michigan until the Army Corps of Engineers reversed the flow so the sewage and pollution would flow away from the lake and not into it, and that the sanitary and ship canal that connects the Missisippi and Illinois rivers to Lake Michigan is manmade. There's not one part of the equation that isn't manmade, including the channel these fish are in, and some idiot wants to "let nature take its course..."
Uh-huh. I suppose they'd refuse treatment if they had cancer too, right? Just "let nature take its course", right?
*sigh* I guess I shouldn't expect a clear understanding of nature from people who have only seen it on TV...
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Location: Illinois | NO Asian carp turning up so far........
http://www.prairiestateoutdoors.com/index.php?/pso/article/fish_dyi... |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Is there a barrier down stream preventing the carp from moving outside the hot zone? Or perhaps they're all in Lake Michigan already  |
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Posts: 8775
| Man, I wonder how much mercury is in that dumpster... Channel catfish and carp, out of a place like that? Wow. |
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Posts: 136
Location: Chicago | asian carp found . click the upper right box for video
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/asian.carp.poisoning.2.1347421.html |
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Posts: 8775
| They found ONE. Of course all it takes is one full of eggs. There are now talks about shutting down the canal until they can figure out what to do next. I'd be surprised to see that happen, but it would be an effective way to stop them.
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/12/feds-consider-temporaril... |
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| Ranger, Do you have any clue what you are talking about when it comes to nuke plants? Meltdowns are not possible in a modern plant, even if all humans died today the plant would not melt down. |
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Location: Illinois | Nuke the Asian Carp!
I argued with a fella today who argued Rotenone did not dissipate. Is there a good reason NOT to trust the state biologists?
You had to use it while working on the electric barrier, which they believe will stave them off. The state of Michigan is suing Illinois to dam the river? |
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| Close the canal. There is a still open lawsuit that will facilitate this. It is already in the works. Let Chicago deal with the sewage the right way. The loss of shipping isn't worth the loss of the Great Lakes and connecting waters. FILL IN THE CANAL BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE !!!! |
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Posts: 136
Location: Chicago | http://www.wgntv.com/news/wgntv-asiancarplawsuit-dec09,0,3148150.st...
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/12/minnesota-ag-keep-asian-...
Edited by rob.s 12/29/2009 11:08 AM
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Posts: 3862
| The old Palisades nuke plant is on the shore of Lake Michigan in the county where I live, about 40 miles from my house. A few years ago the last owner/operator was unable to make changes/improvements necessary to meet existing safety and operating standards as the plant approached its 20 year renewal license. So, the plant was sold to Entergy, and Entergy colluded with the seller, the NRC and Michigan’s Public Service Commission to lower standards and/or ignore deficiencies such that 1) the sale could occur and 2) the new owner was granted a renewed license. Here is a list of some “just little events, nothing to be concerned about, really, we have everything under control”. ….
“Running a
search in the “Reports Associated with Events” category with the word “Palisades”
yields many safety-related “events” over the past decade or so. Citing but a few of these “events” relating to Palisades, there are reports of “a defect in Palisades reactor protection system” (August 30, 1995); the delivery of a
package exceeding radiation level limits, transported to Palisades on an open transport
vehicle (October 14, 1999); the premature loading of spent fuel assemblies into
Palisades storage casks before the assemblies had completed the required five years of
cooling (November 17, 2000); the loss of power to the Palisades cooling tower pumps
and primary coolant pumps (December 3, 2002); a declaration of emergency at
Palisades due to reduced water flow to the plant (February 19, 2003); the declaration of
an alert at Palisades due to a fire with the potential to affect safety systems (March 19,
2003); the declaration of an alert at Palisades due to the loss of shutdown cooling2
(March 26, 2003); and the report that portions of the Palisades plant process computer
4 “including the Emergency Response Data System (ERDS) became inoperable due to
failure of a plant inverter. . . The inverter failed for unknown reasons.” (October 14,
2005). Again, these are only some of the Palisades-related reports of “events”
contained on the NRC website.
The unvarnished truth is that both Consumers Energy and the MPSC (Ranger’s Note – MPSC is the Michigan Public Safety Commission) Staff (“Staff”) believe that it is acceptable that the emergency management and decommissioning concerns of Local Units be ignored in this proceeding.”
Source: STATE OF MICHIGAN – Case No. U-14992
Entergy also owns Indian Point near New York City, a big 3 reactor plant. That plant was among the top 5 targets for the 9/11 terrorists attacks, Nukeboy. But of course no one would ever consider crashing a huge airliner into a nuke plant that’s located 1) on water and 2) near a couple million Americans. Except, of course, a $hitload of motivated people who have demonstrated that it would be relatively easy to do. That would be an “event” not a “meltdown”. Thanks for setting me straight, Nuke.
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Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI | Solar is the answer. Oh, and wind. Properly used, a combination of the two could maybe then replace those dangerous and scary nucular plants. Not only could the terrorists bomb them, but they could maybe steel some of the fishionable material that makes the power and build a nucular bomb.
And who needs that. Not me, you, or the Great Lakes. I think we can all agree on that. I like clean, natural power.
IL should get Lovie Smith to close that canal. Maybe he would be good at that.
Kevin |
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Posts: 8775
| Solar and wind show some promise in sunny and windy areas. But neither provides near the energy yield that it takes to power our infrastructure, especially not our transportation networks. Furthermore, the cost of implementation and maintenance would mean that energy would soon become unaffordable for much of the population.
Oil and coal are not without their fair share of problems, of course... but as it stands now they are the only viable options we have. I think you're going to see a big push towards natural gas in the future, because it's next in line as far as cheap and abundant. ANd if it's not cheap and abundant? It's of little use.
Edited by esoxaddict 12/29/2009 11:28 PM
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Location: The desert | Windmills? Think of the birds man! |
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Posts: 8775
| Pointerpride102 - 12/29/2009 11:31 PM
Windmills? Think of the birds man!
Hey... If they're stupid enough to fly into a windmill, let natural selection take its course, know what I'm sayin'?
We could put a big bucket under each windmill, and gather the stuff up and make cat food out of it or something. Aaaand, we could use the feathers to make... uh. pillows? cat toys? bucktails? I don't know. Birds have got to be good for something other than crappin' on my car after I wash it, right?
So uhhh.. Where we gonna put them windmills? I'm all for it, but I don't want one in my yard 'ya know...
Edited by esoxaddict 12/30/2009 1:22 AM
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Not trying to make light of this "problem", but didn't the so called experts tell us all how the Zebra Mussels were also going to destroy the Great Lakes back in the day?
How did that turn out ... ? Lake Erie is one of the best best walleye & smallmouth fisheries in the world.
Let's not all turn into Chicken Little over this. Mother Nature always finds her way. |
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Posts: 3862
| I try to not Chicken Little (over-react with baseless dire predictions) to the power issues and our impact on the environment. I'm an MBA and achieved "Certified Quality Manager (CQM)" by ASQ, not a science professional. A couple years ago I taught a graduate quality management class with about 30 students including internationals from Poland, Egypt, Iran, etc., and the class included a couple Black Belt Six Sigma guys. Very smart folks. We spent some time reviewing America's power needs as compared to the infrastructure to meets those needs and our discussions included social responsibility and public safety. We concluded that
1) America can't currently meet periodic peak energy energy demand, that's why we experience brown and blackouts in heavily populated areas.
2) The rate of increase of energy demand is twice the rate of increase of infrastructure to meet that demand.
Obviously something has to be done to meet demand. Nuke power is an option that is considered viable and safe and we should expect an increase in the number of nuke plants all over the globe, including the USA. That's reality. We also concluded, however, that older plants with long histories of "events" should be either shut down or made safer. The Palisades plant near my house was not shut down nor does it meet existing safety standards. One of the biggest problems with the plant is that original plans on how to manage waste (bury it out west in non-populated regions) fell apart and so waste is now being stored on site, right next to the Lake Michigan. Maybe we should barge the waste to Green Bay and moor the barges in that sheltered harbor, that would be safe, right? No, of course not. Systems thinking, recognition of the ever-present "hidden factory" and application of chaos theory led us to conclude that nuke operations like the one within 40 miles of my house are disasters waiting to happen.
I'll leave this topic with this observation: Today's Wall Street Journal headline is "Obama Slams Security Breach".
Ok, this Chicken Little is done. Thanks for considering my views. |
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Posts: 8775
| Looks like WI is throwing their hat in the ring...
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/12/wis-jumps-into-case-seek...
While closing the canal is the only way to ensure the Asian carp won't get into Lake Michigan (at least through that route anyway) I just don't see that being economically feasible. IL is in so much trouble financially right now there's no money to pay the people who could make this happen. |
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Posts: 8775
| Here's a taste of what the local journalists are shoving down everyone's throat down here...
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/dennis-byrne-barbershop/2009/12/chi... |
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Posts: 676
Location: Wisconsin | I don't think Zebras do this to the water....(pic) http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/science/earth/03states.html?hp
Edited by Muskiemetal 1/3/2010 1:04 AM
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Location: Chicago | The great lakes alliance should sue the states responsible for allowing the carp to be used at their catfish farms. I don't ever hear about their role in what's happening. I'm not the most informed on the subject, but you would think that those businesses and states should feel serious reprucautions for what's happening now |
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Posts: 272
| esoxaddict - 11/22/2009 3:20 AM
It's also not difficult to figure out that there is little any of us can do about this one, if anything at all.
Except for congress and the Canadian government.
When workers opened the seaway and the ships then filled up with ballast water from the Caspian, that's when the problems began. I realize this is a slightly different access point that what some invasives have used, but the "body" responsible is the same.
Between Uncle Sam and the Canadian Crown Parliament or whatever they're proper name is, those two HAD and HAVE the power. One of them should have stepped in. How about banning the import of live fish.
This is going on a year ago now, but there was some dude on NPR or WPR, can't remember, who said the geniuses in congress have had a bill before them, FOR SEVEN YEARS, that would have forced the shipping industry to pump out their ballast water and flush it with ocean water on the voyage over.
Thanks, guys! Make sure to give yerselves another raise next year for doing such a good job.
-Eric
Edited by muskie-addict 1/4/2010 7:56 AM
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Location: Wisconsin | Game over...
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/82058727.html
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Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | ...wonderful |
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Location: The desert | The sky is falling! |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Pointerpride102 - 1/19/2010 1:54 PM
The sky is falling!
Run away, run away!!! |
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