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| Definitely a case of The Old Bull and The Young Bull.
Young Bull wants to buldge D10's all day. Why? Because he can, that's why. The Old Bull cannot throw D10s all day or even hours of the day because The Old Bull has seen many battles and his will is strong but his flesh is tired. So The Old Bull simply reaches into his war chest and finds a weapon that he can throw as long as he can stand. That weapon doesn't require strength and stamina, it is best used with skill and the patience of The Old Bull. From skimming it with nose up to diving it with nose down The Oldest of The Old Bulls probes the water while the other Old Bull uses knowledge of the lake and finesse to tempt the water tetonka by making his weapon look like an easy meal too tempting to resist. It struggles to move, then seems to almost die as it flutters toward the bottom, and that is when the beast attacks. He watches others go by, but the ones who are dying and come to him, he eats. The Old Bulls never break a sweat, but stand in a relaxed postion with their sprear tips splashing the water's surface as they work their magic weapons. It is not the weapon that is magic, but the hands and the minds of The Old Bulls. |
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| Good story.
In the end, the Old Bull catches one fish and the Young Bull catches 5 and they are all bigger than the Old Bulls one...and the Young Bull uses the right equipment so he doesn't break a sweat either.... ; )
take your pick which Bull you want to be at the end of the day |
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| UGH Young Bull who parents forgot to give name to, only 2 letters. Is that your name, "Two Letters"?
Fish what you want, I don't care. I fish what I can, and I have gliders on my rods every season of the year, and catch fish on them troughout the year. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean that they don't produce numbers or size. My 3 biggest fish have all come on gliders. One 49+" fish on Cass Lake not an hour after 160 tourney boats beat it to death for 3 days. But I was in over 30" of water and she came straight up and ate it.
Guys talk about how to work them. I bet most of the nay-sayers haven't spent a lot of time throwing them while in 30-40 feet of water away from the weeds being pounded by The Blade Runners.
Again, I don't care what you fish and where you fish and how you fish. All lures are tools, and you should know how, when and where to use them all.
Now, go get me some venison, I'm hungry. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Old Bull,
those 2 letters are called Initials...your parents named you Beaver then? interesting.
I never said I don't like them, well I don't love them, but let's stick to my point, point is, as far as time in the water, there are plenty of lures that will produce better (again, most of the time) it's all about where and when like you say, if you would have read an earlier post of mine in this thread, I pointed out that in my boat in just the month of May, 30 fish were put in the net on ...GLIDERS.
so I think I know a thing or 2 about how to work them to trigger strikes...and I know a thing or 2 about putting big muskies and lots of them in the boat...I know I'm not whatever age you are, and I've "only" been musky fishing for 15 yrs..but my point is, gliders just don't produce for the amount of hours they are in the water by the majority of guys who throw them...I know plenty of full time guides who put hundreds of fish in the boat that would probably agree to my point...
one Young Bull. I did like your story though... ; )
bn
Edited by MSKY HNR 1/26/2009 5:03 PM
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| Jim Saric (i guess he'd be a "middle-aged bull"?) detailed his 143 muskies over 50" in this month's Musky Hunter.
73 bucktails
30 topwater
24 crankbait
8 plastic
4 minnowbait
4 jerkbait
gliders are fun, and fun matters.
they even produce fish when worked right under the right conditions.
their big limitation is that the conditions usually favor other presentations.
in years past i spent a lot of hours having fun with gliders instead of catching fish; now i reach for them when fish aren't moving on other presentations.
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Posts: 231
| Beaver, I don't know what it is about Cass, but those toothy critters flat out love those dang nang gliders. whether it's buckbar, little wishbone, allens bay, ect. I'm one of those "Young bulls" you're referring to, but I do love the gliders when I'm on Cass. That was a funny read, & Brad's response made me laugh too. It's all good!
Chas
Edited by Chas 1/26/2009 5:38 PM
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| Chillax Brad. That's what I love about the internet. People can't tell what the tone of your comment is. If you knew me, you'd know that I am seldom serious about something that is fun like muskie fishing. Sworrall and I constantly joke about being The Old Bulls, in fact The Wabull was named for The Walking Bulls, our fishing team name.
I fish gliders a lot because they are easy for me to fish. My back is majorly screwed up and I am not physically able to chunk and wind all day long. Hell, I can only fish gliders for an hour or so before I have to take an hour long break.
I love gliders. I have Steve beat by a long shot. I have one Lakewood just full of HR's and one full of lures that I make and more than that. I also throw rubber, bucktails, spinnerbaits and love throwing Grandmas and crankbaits. I throw lots of stuff, and think that it's important to know how to fish all of the various types of lures. Do gliders outfish other lures on a constant basis. No. Is there one lure that is the best lure every day? No. So don't think that I was serious about my story. It was meant for chuckles, not to call you out. But it also contained some fact. Many guys will badmouth gliders without working them correctly or in areas where they should give them a try. You're obviously not a 'one trick pony', but I'm sure that you know people as I do who will throw one lure from dawn til dusk with the mentality that the fish WILL eat this if I throw it enough.
It's interesting how gliders get singled out. Why? I throw the hell out of topwaters and I think that they suck. They are exciting to use, but the hooking percentage sucks. Are they worth throwing? I've caught many muskies on bucktails with one blade. Now that every bucktail-type lure has two huge blades on it, does that mean that the Mepps is outdated. I think all lures suck sometime. But I'm not going to stop throwing them, buying them, or telling people that they are not worth buying or using.
I guess Sworrall will read my post and laugh.
I wonder what percentage of the time Saric threw all of those lures? It only stands to reson that if someone trolls, they are going to catch the majority of their fish on crankbaits. Saric has the luxury that most of us don't......fishing all season long. I've never read anything that he has written on glider fishing, so I can only assume that he doesn't fish them much.
Edited by Beaver 1/26/2009 6:21 PM
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| more catch on topwater vs crankbait,sound very strange considering where he fish |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | bn - 1/26/2009 3:02 PM
i don't work them like "most people" either Steve, but numbers and results don't lie... they just aren't a lure that produces very big fish or lots of numbers...most of the time...
They do for me. I catch big muskies on gliders all year long, and put some decent numbers in the boat with them, too. One of my favorite applications is a Wabull or Undertaker in what most folks would call 'slop'. Pop that glider along just sub surface sometimes breaking the top, walking across some stuff and then hit a pocket....nose it down, let it pause.......
Some days, especially on flowages up in the stuff, that presentation rules.
Beav, you are a hoot, that soliloquy was great! I think I'm going to catch a fish on a White Pine cone this year. |
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Location: N.FIB | I think most people don`t use gliders long enough to give them a chance at a fish,it all goes down to what you like to throw.Gliders can be a pain to work all day,not as easy as throwing a bucktail or a topwater,they can really be a pain in your back after an hour so you need to take an hour break.If I could only throw one lure all day it would be a glider,I think they ROCK.
GLIDERS ROCK PRO STAFF/FLATLANDERS ROCK TOO
lol |
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Location: Mt. Zion, IL | I am sort of new to fishing gliders. It seems that most of you fish them very erratically. Is this what is desired? It is not desired to fish them like a WTD topwater bait with a steady cadence? Is the idea to really make them dance in all directions? I have only a few gliders and I am still sort of learning how to use them. Currently I own Reef Hawgs, Hellhounds, Magic Makers, and one Hang 10 Manta. I cannot get the Reef Hawgs to go sideways at all and mine fish more like Suicks it seems. Am I on the right track or way off here? |
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Posts: 432
Location: mpls | I catch lots and BIG fish on gliders. I think that most people look for and want a glider that just glides back and forth. when people on forums talk about gliders that they like, it usually goes something like this," I love the _____ glider. It's so easy to work!". What they don't say is they haven't ever caught anything on it! When looking for a glider you should be looking for that "something special". The little wobble. The belly roll. The shimmy on the pause. Yeah, it should glide easy to, but that should be just the price of admission. Not the only thing . I also agree with Sworral, same action = same results. If all you get are lazy follows from that "hypnotic side to side". Don't do the hypnotic side to side. Mix it up, work it fast, slow, ect.
Anyway- take em or leave em. There are a 100's of other ways to catch fish. Find the way you like. I'll take gliders .
Joe
Trueglide.com
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| I love gliders! I have had a bit of luck on Bitten Warlocks and Phantoms. I was lucky enough to get a trueglide at the Chicago show. I hope to wreck the beautiful paint job this summer with some teeth marks! |
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| To RyanJoz
The Reefhawg is a great bait but I don't see it a true glider though.
It can be fished many ways but think of it as a 'tap' bait. Give it a couple of pulls to get it down then tap it at an erratic pace on a tight to almost tight line. Vary the length/strength of the tap and the time between taps and throw in a rip when you feel like. It goes all over the place-side to side plus up and down.
As I understand it, the bait is meant to have erratic motion not the rhythmic side-to side of a true glider. There are some which will do the side to side thing naturally however. For my money, I'd buy a glide bait with a reputation for good side to side swing if that's what you want but reefhawgs can me true magic.
Maybe some real reefhawg experts will chime in here. |
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| 12 guage. Sounds like you are doing pretty well without them ehh? Nice to have one rigged on stretch x, though, especially in spring and fall. Not a tool for covering water while floating downstream, but great to have one rigged for when you get to the sweet zones. Brad, I'd agree with you for the places/lakes you fish. However, spend some time in cooler water periods on a river with alot of current(which I expect you probably won't), and you'll grasp the glider as a handy tool in certain situations, and big fish eat them every year. Not any glider will do in the heavy current, with the flat sided stuff usually staying home(other than phantoms and the old Castor in my case, Nitro in light current). |
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Location: Oregon | lambeau - 1/26/2009 5:12 PM
Jim Saric (i guess he'd be a "middle-aged bull"?) detailed his 143 muskies over 50" in this month's Musky Hunter.
73 bucktails
30 topwater
24 crankbait
8 plastic
4 minnowbait
4 jerkbait
These are amazing statistics.........wow!
What would be interesting is to know how much of his total time was spent fishing each of the lures in the above list. He caught roughly 50% of the 143 fish on bucktails but is he fishing bucktails 50% or 90% of the time? If he's throwing bucktails 90% of the time then a 50% statistic isn't as impressive. If he is throwing each of the baits in the above list an equal amount of time, which I sincerely doubt he is, then the 50% caught on bucktails would be very impressive.
No doubt bucktails and spinnerbaits are effective but it is important to remember that you will catch fish on lures you choose to spend time fishing. And finally, bucktails are a pretty straight forward bait that most anglers can fish correctly while not everyone can fish a glider properly.
RM
Edited by RiverMan 1/29/2009 1:06 AM
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| In my experience gliders are a last resort. Rythmic or erratic retrieve, still seems to show a lot more fish than trigger them. Once the I got over how cool HR's were I realized most of the time other baits are a better option for getting them to eat in most situations. I still catch fish on gliders but it's usually early spring and on shad based water. Now instead of having an entire flambeau box full of gliders I have a Hellhound, Warlock, Slammer drop belly, and two HR's for when times are tough, I've gone from throwing them 40% of the time to about 5% and my numbers and average size have gone up dramatically. Again, just my experience with them in MN/IA/NW Ont. |
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| Gliders are not the best choice, nor are they the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th pick in my board for a big fish.
Do they work, yes. Are the great at catching Big fish, not really.
Sure there are big fish caught on them, but not in huge amounts.
Also there are two types of gliders in my opinion. Erratic and not just plain jane left to right. I really hate the plain jane left to right, same ol' same ol gliders. Lots of lazy lookers but very few fish in the boat. People like them because they can MOVE fish on them, but catch rates are pretty low. The erratic gliders do a decent job of catching fish, but they have to have several components. Belly roll, up, down, left, right, left, down, up, right, left, right, down, etc....these style of gliders are more effective at catching.
If you spend half your time throwing a glider and half you time throwing other baits, your stats would not show 50% caught on gliders and 50% on other baits. They just aren't the most effective baits out there. Sure they do work, they do catc fish, but not consistantly. |
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Location: MPLS, MN | I only really use Gliders on hot sunny blue bird days on Shield Lakes over shallow rocks and major cold fronts. They shine over everything else in those situations in my experiance. |
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| I mainly throw gliders if I need to move fish because they often do that when nothing else will. Once I've moved the fish I switch baits (usually to a crankbait or bucktail). I have missed a lot of nice fish on these baits which has caused them to move down in the line-up.
Ryan,
Grab yourself a Squirko or Hellhound and pop away in the timber! |
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Posts: 432
Location: mpls | I will refrain from posting anything that may seem negative.
I would love to know how many "big Fish" ( over 50"). some of you have experience catching? I say this, because there is at least one post on this thread from a person claiming that gliders do not catch big fish - in his opinion. I know this person, and he has never caught a fish over 42". I am not calling that out to take anything away from his fishing skills or his dedication. Just pointing out that you have to be vary of the source when getting your information from people that may seem knowledgable. Personally I lose very few fish on gliders and the biggest fish that I know of on my baits is 56". AND many more over 50". Of course I fish gliders more than most, so no point in saying the % . The point is- everyone has an opinion, and Muskie fishermen usually have more than one 
Fish every style of bait you can. Have fun . Don't disregard something,because an "expert" has a differing opinion. My Dad once caught a smallmouth on a piece of corn and 40pound test.Just to prove to me that I was spending to much$ on baits and that fish were dumb.
Joe
Trueglide.com
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Location: Contrarian Island | Joe,
In the last 5 seasons there have been over 500 fish in my boat...I think that is a pretty good sample size to go from...
I use to be a glider freak, I think we all go thru that phase starting out musky fishing, at one time I had more gliders than I could put in my boat but found, as many others do, they don't put that many fish in the net for the countless hours we were fishing them...look at Sarics stats, or anyone that catches lots of fish..sure there is some self fullfilling prophecy there as JLong would say as you are going to catch fish on what you throw...but in reality, if you want to catch lots of fish, and big ones, gliders are not the best choice ....I still use them and catch plenty of fish on them, but imo I don't throw "gliders" and work mine so erratic and fast that to me, they almost become twitch baits....to me, the return on investment is low...they don't produce that well under the majority of conditions so they become a specific bait for a specific set of conditions, whether thats water temp, weather, fish activity level etc...under those conditions they do work, very well in fact...but that set of conditions isn't all the time..if angler A threw a glider all year and angler B threw a bucktail all year...I'd bet my visor angler B would have more fish in the boat ...
i'm not out there to get skunked...catching fish is fun, catching lots of fish is even better.
I do see your point though...the terms "big fish" and "a lot of fish" are all relative and could mean quite a few things to different people...to me, getting a few fish or even 10 in a season on one type of bait is not "a lot"
Edited by MSKY HNR 1/29/2009 10:24 AM
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Location: SE Wisconsin | When I started fishing tournaments, bucktails spent the majority of the time on my rod, rarely changing the pace. My thought was that bucktails produce, they cover a lot of water fast and the odds should be in my favor. Fishing a tournament, of course you want to increase your odds, so why not cover as much water as possible with a bait that is capable of the task?
I love bucktails, in fact, their probably one of my favorite arsenols! I love the smoothness on the retrieve and the feeling right before a fish sucks it in. Ever notice how when a fish has its nose to the bucktail, just before he sucks it in the light pulse of the blades skips a beat? I love that, it's cool.
GLIDERS, however, are a phenominal bait IMO. It is the one solid bait that I can retrieve and replicate an injured fish or a mindless fish that feels like taking an evening swim, yet has no real direction as to where it goes.
I don't think gliders catch smaller fish. . . Look at the 50% of you who don't throw them often. . . Do you really wonder why the bait doesn't have as many BIG fish to its name as the baits you throw regularly? I, personally, caught my biggest fish on a glider on a local Lake Country Lake here in SE Wisconsin. . . I also throw them quite a bit, but I believe in them. I think that's everything. If you have confidence in a lure, stemming from your know-how of working the lure, you should be able to produce. Throwing them when nothing else is moving? Why?
Bucktails catch fish that are active and on the hunt . . . for the most part. Gliders, twitch baits like Slammers, Jakes and Grandmas, Suicks and Super Shads are great for the BIG girls who are sitting patiently for the unfortunate prey that crosses its path and hangs in its face for a moment, enticing. Think about it.
Musky Magic makes one of the best, HANDS DOWN, gliders on the market. If you haven't thrown one, you're missing out. . . That's why I talk about them all the time. Their awesome if you know how to use them. They make the drop belly Slidin' Shad, which, IMO, have many more capalities then a straight glider, like a Hellhound. Drop bellies give you a slight belly role for flash and erratic behavior, and on the glide they tilt to a slight angle rather then a straight left to right. That's what seperates the from the rest. . . A realistic appeal.
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Location: SE Wisconsin | uptown - 1/29/2009 9:54 AM
there is at least one post on this thread from a person claiming that gliders do not catch big fish - in his opinion. I know this person, and he has never caught a fish over 42".
All to true in so many instances. This is the internet, however, infrances can be made more often than not, suggesting the ones who catch BIG fish and achieve a high success rate are the modest ones. They don't accuse certain baits or techniques as being bad or wrong, rather, they wait till the time is right to share knowledge on a topic they see all the angles of. |
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Posts: 90
| I have to be honest guys, these all encompassing statements of gliders don't catch numbers or large fish are just irritating. Perhaps they don't for you, but I have seen some pretty nice fish taken by Norm Wild on a Wabull the past couple seasons and I have to say I don't buy into the big fish don't eat gliders aspect of the argument. Me personally, on the other hand, I tried a Wabull for the first time last season, and immediately sold it. Not because I didn't think it would catch fish or big fish, but I clearly didn't know how to use it properly to make the presentation look appealing from my end of things. Could I learn, sure, but my time on the water was restricted to about 10 days last season and that didn't leave opportunities to experiment in my opinion. So I stuck with what I know best and that is an "outdated" overused solid black suick that I am comfortable knowing it will put fish in the boat. In fact my last time out last season with my brother, he used a Topraider almost exclusively and I used that black suick almost exclusively, and much to my surprise the majority of the fish he caught were on a Topraider and mine were on a suick. Doesn't mean that Suicks don't work in the front of the boat and Topraiders in the back...does it? The point is that everyone is entitled to an opinion, and everyone is entitled to a preference and typically your results will speak to those two factors, but that doesn't make anyone elses opinions or preferences wrong.
Edited by JeffPaasch 1/29/2009 12:06 PM
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| Alas, I must comment again. I see the debate rages on, and that's good. Whether you are pro or con, I bet you have gliders in your box.
One thing caught my attention in some of the first posts, and it has been said before, guys love Hellhounds. They're easy to fish. I used to love many different gliders (I love my own the most of course) that I no longer own. Hellhounds and Undertakers for example. Why? Well, IMO gliders of that size just don't raise the interest of big fish. I'm not saying small gliders don't catch fish, I'm saying if you stick with 6", small profile baits, you'll catch more small fish than big. My glider fishing really improved when I started throwing lures in the 8-10" range. Big lures=Big fish? With gliders I'd have to say so. An 8" baitfish is a snack to a big fish, so is a 10" I guess, but I like bigger profiles, and so do the biggest fish that I've caught. I'm outlining patterns on some exotic woods right now, and none of them are smaller than 8".
There still is a time and place for smaller gliders, but when I'm on big fish waters the little guys stay home.
Beav
Edited by Beaver 1/29/2009 12:18 PM
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Location: Stevens Point, WI | Good point, Beaver. I can't get the picture out of my head of a 49 incher that was found here washed up on shore with a 12 pound carp sticking out of its throat. That would be a big glider.
BUT, one of my original questions has yet to be answered to my liking. You guys who fish gliders, are there bodies of water where they work and others where they don't? Are some lakes "glider" lakes and others not at all, or are the fish really not that picky?
Edited by 12gauge 1/29/2009 1:01 PM
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| 12gauge - 1/29/2009 12:59 PM
Good point, Beaver. I can't get the picture out of my head of a 49 incher that was found here washed up on shore with a 12 pound carp sticking out of its throat. That would be a big glider.
BUT, one of my original questions has yet to be answered to my liking. You guys who fish gliders, are there bodies of water where they work and others where they don't? Are some lakes "glider" lakes and others not at all, or are the fish really not that picky?
I've fished a LOT of lakes where they don't work!! 
Seriously though, that's a good question. I may be wrong here, but I think it's more situational than lake specific. That is, gliders work well under certain CONDITIONS. I've heard there isn't a glider bite at all on Eagle for example, but then I'm up there in August, when everybody is throwing the same 4 lures -- double 10's, Dawgs, Grandmas and depthraiders. If they're going on tails, you'd be silly to even TRY a glider.
I'd say a safer statement would be something like "gliders don't typically produce on _______ until the water temp gets below 40 late in the fall" and not that they just don't work at all. All muskies are muskies after all. There might be slight differences in how different strains behave, or between hybrids and purestrain muskies, but I believe they will ALL eat a glider at one time or another no matter where you are. |
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| Old Guy,
Nuts on about the Reef Hawg. I consider them more of a twitch bait myself. I never go to LOTW without an handful of 6" ers. My personal best came on a 20 year old version. My buddy asked why I was throwing the old ,cracked, minimal paint version and my reply was"'cause this thing runs like a B^%$#". Steve |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | A glider looks like a wounded or unaware forage fish that is appealing to a predator, like the musky. IMO, different lakes, etc. make no difference in what lures work better than others. I think that's merely a myth stemmed from rumors of what was working well one day or week for one or a couple different sources. Any lake that has musky, has forage. . . A musky must eat to survive, such that when a temptation like a glide bait is hanging in the predators face, your odds are as good in one lake as they are in the next of that fish taking the bait.
It is safe to say, however, that some lakes are easier fished with certain presentations, such as deep crater lakes vs shallow lakes with weed flats. As your own guide, you must surmise what presentation would work best depending on your circumstances. Structure and cover along with depth and time of day all play an inaugeral role.
So, no, there aren't reasonably any lakes where a musky prefers gliders over the next lake, just lakes where given the layout of your playing field, a glider may be more suitable to use then in a different area/lake.
Edited by Sam Ubl 1/29/2009 1:24 PM
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