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Posts: 3147
| BenR
French lake is NOT ancient history this is recent history this just happened couple years back,,Working with the darkhouse spearers the DNR gave their recommendation and after it was all said and done the DHS went behind everybodys back recruited a politician who didnt really understand it and push through their proposal hidden inside another one, that isnt exactly an off the cuff task,, they sat down and put some real time and involved some people in planning this,,Talk about disrespecting the dnr I think this is about has "narrow minded" has you can get.
Edited by happy hooker 1/2/2009 10:12 AM
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Posts: 3147
| actually I know of a guide who 'pike fishes' on little wolf in may only thing is he isnt pike fishing and admits it.,,,, |
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Location: Watertown, MN | Mike
Take the ball and run with this one, just spent 3 hours in meeting yesterday about the future of MN, yet we cry foul when a spearer "Illegally" harvest a fish. Do what needs to be done, and sounds like that is already happening, inform DNR and give info to them, and let them do their job.
But now we should put forth the effort to fight a huge well organised group because "one person" did something illegal. Yet we can't get or "Musky People" to turn out to meetings about stocking new lakes, meeting, or fundraising events to help stock fish. We could fight all winter to save a couple of Violated fish or spend time in developing the fisheries.
I am not saying don't fish them at all, but this lake recieves heavy pressure and when guides are making a living on a brood stock lake, that is pretty sad in my mind, and many others. Why exploit a handful of lakes, if you want to fish them every now and then thats fine. Why do think these lakes are not on the International Tournament list, little self discipline goes along ways. We have already come to the agreement to work with the Dark House to move our fisheries forward, and not putting more lakes on the Banned Spearing list. We need to pick battle that will improve the fisheries and the working relationship between MI and Dark House and put up walls the prevents us from moving forward.
Troyz
Remember a founding member ended up with some bullet holes in his boat over this battle years ago, |
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Posts: 374
Location: Bemidji | Brad,
The fish was speared out of Platan. I talked to the one of the guys that found the fish two days ago.
Troyz,
There are guides that camped on that lake ALL summer almost exclusively. I fished Plantan not more than 20 times last year, guiding there 5 days. There was more pressure out there this year than I have ever seen. I think that this also is a problem. I enjoy fishing the lake but there are so many other lakes in the area worth fishing that is doesn't make sense to only fish one. |
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Posts: 18
Location: White Bear lake, MN | I agree with BenR.
Ironically, you could have legally killed this fish last summer (over 48" on Plantag). If spearing is banned on these lake, then we should also eliminate the legal harvest of muskies on these lakes.
FYI Elk is catch + release only. |
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Posts: 374
Location: Bemidji | That would be ideal but not likely to happen. Harvesting is not a problem with the musky fishermen up here and the DNR would come back with, "musky fishermen release 99.5% of the fish they catch anyway." They could also bring up the old school train of thought "what if someone wants one to mount." I think total catch and release would be more difficult to get than a spearing ban. I am in favor of it just not sure if it would fly.
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Location: Hugo, MN | Troyz. - 1/2/2009 7:06 PM
Remember a founding member ended up with some bullet holes in his boat over this battle years ago,
Frank was a Great Man. |
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Posts: 720
| I'm sorry guys and I don't mean to be disrespectful and I hope some of you don't take it this way. But the I know a lot of people who are in an uproar over this fish. They spout off about the facted that spearing is bad, guiding is bad and that our brood stock lakes should not be fished at all. These are the same folks that are the biggest complainers when it comes to fishing pressure. These are not OUR brood stock lakes. We piss and moan about the walleye, bass and pan fisherman. Yet we don't have enough smarts to look in the mirror. Musky fishing is a blip on the radar screen in the grand scheme of things. We only make up only 3 percent of the angling public. I think that our problem is this. First we aren't a very well organized group. When you compare us to other groups like The Rocky mountain Elk Foundation, Ducks unlimited, The Bass and several others. Organization as a group like MI is the only way to truly get our agenda's to get a serious look. Secondly, is this mentalilty that these stocked lakes belong to us the musky fisherman. I've seen this time and time again. A couple of guys are running a weedline and mom, dad and the kids pull in front of these two geniuses. They are completely oblivious to what they just did. Setting out snoopy pulls and uglystyx with bobbers. Instead of taking 30 seconds and saying hello and asking the kids how's the fishing. The guys in the musky boat start unleashing some of the most harshly worded training on fishing ethics that you can imagine. Then proceed to cast with in feet of their bobbers. Before anyone says this is an isolated incident I've wittness this twice this year and once by two anglers in my own chapter of MI. Its embarrassing as a human being and its completely inexcuseable as a musky angler. We don't have anymore rights to fish a lake than anyone else.
I think this is totally wrong. We are a small group and if we are going to get anywhere we need to take the approach that we are willing to work with everybody. WMRA showed us how well being a loud mouth, swinging at everything that moves bully worked. A great idea shot to hell because we couldn't work with the Wisconsin DNR.
In an idea world all of the above posts would be terrific. But its not idea and we don't have the numbers or money to be bullying people around. Again I mean absolutely no disrespect. I include myself in the musky fishing community and hope that things keep moving forward for your kids and mine. |
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Location: New Hope MN | Hunter4, Bravo. |
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| Anyone ever hear of a word that was used a long time ago and now seems to have been forgotten because it was old fashioned. Its called ETHICS. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Some have and display them, and some don't. Unfortunate, but a fact of the human condition. |
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| You're right. Thats where the other word comes in. Its called JAIL. |
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Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | BenR - 1/5/2009 12:38 PM
I agree, point being you cannot legislate ethics.....
You are so right! |
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| I wonder if they teach "know the difference" in this class.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/janfeb09/fish_decoys.html |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | How about you volunteer to be a guest instructor for that segment?
Walleye pro Tommy Skarlis at the NPAA conference this last weekend:
" If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem'
Some truth to that some days, I guess. |
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Location: New Hope MN | sworrall - 1/5/2009 5:52 PM
How about you volunteer to be a guest instructor for that segment?
Walleye pro Tommy Skarlis at the NPAA conference this last weekend:
" If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem'
Some truth to that some days, I guess.
Remember there was a time when every musky caught was clubbed in the head and brought home for dinner. Now nearly everyone releases them. People got together and educated other anglers of the importance of CPR. It was all done voluntarily, not through the use of government (aka Bans).
It might not be a bad idea, for those concerned, to post pictures showing the difference between pike & musky on the doors of those dark houses. |
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| I would say Tommy is right on the money,
Maybe their should be a lure making 101 course and teach the importance of catch & release.
Know any instructors? |
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Posts: 32884
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | As asked of you once, why do you not volunteer for that segment? |
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Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | I'm a long way from Bemidji  |
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| Being this was a 50" class muskie speared and as far as I know there is not 50" pike swimming in MN, know the difference signs would of ment squat. Its called we hate muskies period! DC |
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Posts: 32884
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Or it was a person who saw the fish, speared it, and the rest is history. Maybe that person was impulsive, maybe that person didn't think, and just reacted and really feels bad about it now. Occasionally, well seasoned hunters shoot other hunters thinking that hunter was a deer...happens. Maybe it was intentional, and maybe not, but trying to lump everyone into one narrow minded classification that fits a popular reactionary position is not an answer. |
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| No other hunters shoot other hunters becouse they break the cardnal rule of gun safty, always know your target. Just as a spearer should know if on a lake containing muskies. I'm sticking with IRRESONSIBLE.DC |
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Posts: 32884
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Stick with whatever you wish, but you will get no where with that sort of rhetoric as far as any possible solution to darkhouses and what is speared on pike/muskie waters in Minnesota.
Those folks are well organized, working form a long tradition, very well funded, and a few folks who have posted here know already that past negative 'bullying' was counter productive. Working together is a much better idea, understanding each others position and working towards a solution acceptable to both sides of the issue.
But that's my take on it. |
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Posts: 374
Location: Bemidji | I spoke with one of the guys that found the musky on the ice. Nate said that he asked two spearers on the lake if they knew who speared the fish and they said they didn't. They tried to convice him of not turning the fish in to the DNR because they didn't want the conservation officers "harassing" them while they were spearing. They tried to get him to throw it back in the hole that he pulled it up from.
There are quite a few spearers and fishermen in the area that are not pro-musky. Many locals do NOT want muskies in our waters. I believe that this is a case of wanting to purposely kill a big musky. That is just my assumption from living in the area for the last 6 years. |
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| Some people, maybe alot, hate Musky. I have found musky floating with their guts cut open with a knife. Dont think you can push the fish you (we) love on those that think they are trash. You just might be surprised to find out how many would just as soon see them all dead. I am convinced that Mille Lacs is suffering this mentality. I have no evidence but it is my feeling. When walleye fisherman cant catch walleye do you think they blame themselves or something else like the musky. I'll bet ya there are more walleye lovers than musky. |
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Posts: 32884
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | What possible end goal does this deteriorating line of rhetoric have; will this encourage those who already oppose muskies in 'their' water to feel better about the muskies being there? Isn't it possible to anger enough of the darkhouse folks to encourage more of the same from the less scrupulous? That is a possible consequence, I've personally seen it in other 'spearing' debates in the past.
In many arguments, the reality of things usually isn't as bad, nor as good as either side says. Middle ground is a great place to meet, but it's hard to approach if someone is shooting at anyone trying to get there.
If you think some of the folks who spear pike and do so with care and within the law, respecting others in the process haven't read this thread, you are mistaken, and a possible backlash if the conversation in that crowd spreads enough is possible. I'd be a bit careful in my rhetoric if I was looking for a resolution, and not paint everyone with so broad a brush. |
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| Well said and I agree.....:) |
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| "Many locals do NOT want muskies in our waters."
Why not? The best walleye and northern lakes in the entire state of MN also happen to be the best muskie fisheries the state has to offer. I'm always amazed that so many people feel that stocking muskies is detrimental to "their" fisheries. They're missing out on probably catching more or larger walleye and northern. A local lake near where I live has produced quite a few trophy muskies, including a few 55 inch fish. I sent an e-mail to a guy who is part of a walleye organization and asked him about the catch rates he's seen on that lake over the past 10 years. He said they're catching MORE fish now than in the past, and according to the size numbers I received from him, there has been NO ILL EFFECTS from the muskie population. Educating the general public seems to be a big problem we have. If they only knew the facts, they may be more open to muskies being STOCKED, instead of being speared or harvested. |
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| Thats true but most people are not aware of that and wouldnt believe you if you told them. Its hard to convince someone that a musky that eats their walleye actually makes bigger and more walleye. Most musky anglers probably know this but I dont think this is true of the general walleye fishing population. We should probably be putting this info in walleye magazines and such and trying to educate or I'm afraid we may have run into a brick wall. |
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| Actually, muskies DON'T eat their walleye, was the point I was trying to make, and studies have proven this. Here is a little bit of info from one such study I just pulled off the net. It was clearly proven that walleye NEVER made up the prefered forage for muskies, even on lakes in which walleye were abundant. I agree though, it is hard to tell people this and have them believe you, even though it has been proven to be factual.
"In a report published in the North America Journal of Fishing Management, 1999," Skala said, "the College of Natural Resources, University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point, tell us what muskies really eat. Michael A. Bozek, Thomas M. Burri and Richard V. Frie were the research biologists. They came up with the following data as to muskellunge diets. I will try to list the common names of the muskellunge prey. These figures were complied from 34 different bodies of water and samples from 375 stomachs of muskies. These figures represent percentage of total volume of the muskies examined stomachs." Percent OF Total Volume Prey Category (by common name):
46.6 Suckers; 16.9 Yellow Perch; 7.0 Crappie; 4.7 Pike & Muskie; 4.6 Shiners & Chubs; 4.0 Pumpkinseed & Bluegill; 3.4 Walleye; 3.1 Bass; 3.0 Unidentified; 2.4 Bullhead; 0.9 Frog; 0.9 Cisco; 0.6 Mudpuppy; 0.4 Crayfish; 0.2 Rock Bass; 0.2 Mouse; 0.1 Common Carp; 0.1 Tadpole.
I don't know about you, but I was surprised that walleyes were so low on the list. The lakes we fish, ciscos have to be higher on the list and if you announced that muskies consume more frogs than they do ciscos in a pizza and beer bar at most northwoods resorts, you'd start a brawl.
Yet, facts do not lie."
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