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Posts: 512
Location: Appleton | Not sure how a lack of schedule shows poor organization. The PMTT which has been around for some time just released theirs. Seems to me like some just want this to fail before it even gets going. I for one am interested in a schedule but don't think any less of the tournament for not having one. The Chicago show is when many make tourney plans and if they have it out by then everything will be fine. As for any new venture there is sure to be growing pains but let the full plan comeout before jumping the gun. |
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Posts: 1636
| Its too bad this trail will be sticking to Minnesota and Wisconsin. Very interested to see how well it does. 4 different types of water would be sweet. A lake, chain of lakes, river, and a reservoir would be great. I know things have been well thought out and are pretty much set in stone, but paying more places rather than having one giant amount for first place might draw more people, in my opinion. I doubt anyone would complain about winning $20,000 for first place rather than $30,000. Of course the more the better, but that would leave you $10,000 more to pay down and more people would end up at least breaking even.
Edited by Reelwise 12/27/2008 7:24 PM
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| Wisconsin and Minnesota are the states for 2009. Why is that 'too bad'?
You have some sort of inside track on the payouts? I haven't seen a schedule yet.
I heard the second place payout is over 7 thousand, and third over 5. I hope that's right. We're looking forward to seeing the payouts next week. |
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Posts: 1636
| Its "too bad" because some would like to see events like this in other states such as Illinois, Ohio, Kentucky, and so on. The PMTT is great because they fish different bodies of water throughout the muskies range, which tests many skills throughout the year. Fishing a southern reservoir is completely different than fishing a northern Minnesota lake and far more technical. The Detroit River is a lot different than lakes in northern Wisconsin. Etc, etc, etc...
Not complaining Mr. Sunfish... just stating that I would love to see a tournament trail organized similar to this that covers the muskies range, thats all. |
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Posts: 28
Location: crivitz, wi | Merckid - 12/27/2008 4:29 PM
I first want to direct you to what Sunfish said in the middle of this thread. The possibility of a larger payout would depend on contingency offers that would be present to those fishing MAC. Take a look at the FLW tours, last year a guy was guaranteed $60,000 for first place, however, if a guy ran the right boat and motor, he automatically qualified for another $40,000, putting the first place prize at $100,000. The contingency offers would be run similar to how the FLW's are run.
Here is the link to the contingencies that are possible for the 2009 FLW walleye tour.
http://walleyetour.flwoutdoors.com/contingencyAward.cfm?cid=5&did=0
For a MAC event, a full field of a 120 has the possibility of a $30,000 cash prize for first place, that's without any contingency. If I recall right, the closest first place prize in any musky trail for a single event is only $20,000, not too shabby if you ask me. Then another $24,000 cash for the top placing team of the year.
The WMT has payouts of $20,000 and the entry fee is less then half of the MAC
plus they have end of the year contingencies that can total in the six figures as
most of you know.
I am sure the MAC is going to be a good musky trail and we will have to wait and see the rules, payouts and locations.
If I see no real benifit for the $750 entry fee I will fish more of the WMT and get
2 tournaments for $600. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | The WMT has a championship payout above $20,000 and three events that could pay out $20,000 if they have a full field of I think 150. The championship for the WMT is for qualifiers only, so there aren't many tournaments that will pay out $20,000+.
The contingencies you talk about on the WMT and the ones MAC will have are two very different things. The contingencies in the WMT are not always paid out, people have to accomplish such feats in order for the contingencies to be paid. For example, in the FLW, if a guy places first and is running a Ranger or G3, combined with a Yamaha or Evinrude motor, he will qualify for the extra $40,000. However, if the first place guy doesn't drive a Ranger or G3 combined with a Yammie and or an Evinrude, he will not get the first place contingency money of $40,000. Each person that places has a different amount available. So, at the end of September, Pro Tommy Skarlis was running a Ranger powered Evinrude in the championship, he won the championship so he qualified for the extra $50,000(there was more money in the contingency for the championship), the second place guy also was running the right equipment and took home an extra $35,000. The contingencies the WMT have are different than what MAC will have.
Also, contingencies will be available for each tournament, not just for one event during the year. For example, each FLW event, that extra $40,000 for first place could be paid out for all five of the tournaments held in the FLW tour. Another example, the Toyota Walleye Rewards program WalleyeFIRST runs pays out to every FLW Tour and League event, and use to pay out to all the PWT events too. Toyota paid $2,000 to the highest placing angler in every FLW and PWT tour event and $1,000 to the highest placing FLW League angler driving a 2007 or newer Toyota Tundra in every single event.
Edited by Merckid 12/27/2008 11:31 PM
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| Reelwise - 12/27/2008 7:57 PM
Its "too bad" because some would like to see events like this in other states such as Illinois, Ohio, Kentucky, and so on. The PMTT is great because they fish different bodies of water throughout the muskies range, which tests many skills throughout the year. Fishing a southern reservoir is completely different than fishing a northern Minnesota lake and far more technical. The Detroit River is a lot different than lakes in northern Wisconsin. Etc, etc, etc...
Not complaining Mr. Sunfish... just stating that I would love to see a tournament trail organized similar to this that covers the muskies range, thats all.
'Four events are planned for 2009. Two are planned to be centered in Wisconsin, and two are planned in Minnesota, offering a trail in the heart of Muskie country fishing some of the best waters available.'
How does this mean the Muskie anglers Circuit won't go to other locations? Where does it say that? They have a Canadian-US Challenge planned for 2009. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | A contingency is an amount paid out by a sponsor for running a sponsor's product and placing in a predetermined place, sometimes a win, sometimes several places are paid, sometimes, as in the case of Toyota Trucks Walleye Anglers Rewards, the highest placing finisher running the brand.
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Posts: 1636
| Guest: "How does this mean the Muskie anglers Circuit won't go to other locations? Where does it say that? They have a Canadian-US Challenge planned for 2009."
2 in Wisconsin and 2 in Minnesota. Thats two states. I highly doubt there will be a Canadian-US Challenge anywhere other than a lake that divides the two or a lake located in Minnesota or Canada. To my knowledge there are over 20 states with Muskies in them and muskie fishermen from all over the united states. Sure, these tournament are in what some of you call the "heart" of muskie country, but there are 4 tournaments in 2 states that people from all over the country may be interested in fishing. I would like to see a tournament trail ran in the same fashion in other states, thats all. I did not say that the Muskie Anglers Circuit would not spread them out in the future. It would be nice if it were this upcoming year... So, "TOO BAD" its not.
Edited by Reelwise 12/27/2008 9:25 PM
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Posts: 28
Location: crivitz, wi | The WMT has 3 major open tournaments that pay $20,000 each
open for anyone that pays the 300.00 entry. Plus anyone that wins
back to back 1 day tournaments on the same weekend gets an
extra $20,000 bonus! |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Thinking about this a little, from a buddy who has fished the PMTT the last couple of seasons, there wasn't one PMTT that held a full field this year(Eagle River was the closest). So, by offering a trail in what most people would call the "heart" of muskie country, wouldn't you think this would be a positive thing? By offering a trail where majority of the musky world resides, wouldn't you think it would be more beneficial in the way of getting more guys fishing the whole trail versus maybe one or two tournaments a year? I've seen one thing first hand on the walleye trail side of things, the participation in the tournaments declined heavily in the past two years if tournaments were exceedingly out of the area. For example, the PWT went to Bull Shoals, Arkansas for a tournament in June, they had the worst participation in one of there tournaments ever. By offering a trail that is semi-local but offered on good waters, I would think that would be more appealing versus driving all over the country.
If I had the opportunity to play the game, I'd rather spend more time fishing than driving if you ask me. It only makes sense. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | The only way to get that $20,000+ payout is with a full field of a 150 boats if I'm reading things correctly. How many of those tournaments had a full field of 150?
Winning back to back one day events aren't a guarantee, so the contingency money won't be paid every weekend. I'm talking about contingency money that gets paid no matter what. |
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Posts: 1636
| I'm not saying what your doing is bad... I think a tournament trail like the PMTT with the same incentives the MAC is putting on the table would do awesome. The PMTT is not having a tough time filling up because of location. I'm not saying running 4 tournaments in 2 states that already have tournament trails is bad, but if all of the other trails are having a hard time filling up with decent payouts and lower entry fees, I think the MAC will be faced with the same problem, especially with a higher entry fee. A lot of people are not willing to gamble away money like that. Like musky54114 said, most would probably rather fish two tournaments for the price of one (and still cost less) and have two chances to win $20,000 (WMT). |
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Posts: 28
Location: crivitz, wi | Merckid - 12/27/2008 9:39 PM
musky54114 - 12/27/2008 9:27 PM
The WMT has 3 major open tournaments that pay $20,000 each
open for anyone that pays the 300.00 entry. Plus anyone that wins
back to back 1 day tournaments on the same weekend gets an
extra $20,000 bonus!
The only way to get that $20,000+ payout is with a full field of a 150 boats if I'm reading things correctly. How many of those tournaments had a full field of 150?
Winning back to back one day events aren't a guarantee, so the contingency money won't be paid every weekend. I'm talking about contingency money that gets paid no matter what.
The payout for MAC is based on a full field also! I for one am not going to spend
$30,000-$50,000 dollars on a boat or truck just to have a shot at any contingency money! It will be interesting to see who will be paying these and what we will need ot have to spend to have a shot at them. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Reelwise,
Think of it this way. An extra $75 a man for a chance at an extra 10 thousand plus first place and equally higher payouts for the rest of the top ten and a chance at up to 24 thousand for team of the year, and contingency money is not a huge gamble. If you ask me, an extra $75 for that much more for first place would be worth it.
Doesn't sound like MAC will be anything like the PMTT.
There is plenty of room for both and it's about time we have two circuits.
If MAC had a 'possible' field of 150 boats, the top listed payout would be even higher. |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | I think you have to give them time to tweak everything and get in place. It would have been nice to have more info but I think this came about rather fast for them. I think that being in Minn and Wisc will be a plus for them. I think there is room for this and I believe it will work if the economy picks up some. I think the news of it just mentioned on mf has generated alot of interest and it appears many of you are ready for this.
Pfeiff |
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Posts: 355
Location: Wausau, Wisconsin | Wow! |
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| Although I am skeptical I will give this some time to materialize. That being said, at $750 a boat, it is going to be very hard to fill a 120 boat field. With all the tournament competition, I realistically see fields of 60-100 boats. One thing that will have a huge impact on the number of entrants will be where these tournaments are held... I know one of the biggest complaints with the PMTT is their selection of waters.
John |
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| When getting permits, I would imagine that lake size is one of the big things to take into consideration, and there are only so many lakes that can hold a 120 boat tourney.
There are only so many, so in MN I would assume that it is going to be on either Mille Lacs, Leech, Vermillion, or Cass. In Wisconsin, there is The Chip, Winnebago Chain, Green Bay, Pentenwell, any other lakes? |
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | There's also obviously the Madison chain and Eagle River chain, however, hopefully they will have some new, fresh ideas in terms of what bodies of water the events will be held on instead of what seems like the same lakes year in and year out.
I am VERY excited about a Can/Am tournament, it is something we have dreamed abut for years. I'll keep my fingers crossed they select the lakes I think they will.... |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | MuskyDew - 12/28/2008 1:33 PM
Does anyone have contact info for MAC LLC?
Dew
There will be an 800 number released very soon. Further details of the trail will be released at the Tri Esox show in Chicago on January 9-11.
Here is the press release that was posted on the first page of this thread.
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/articles/12.28.2008/1908/Muskie.Ang... |
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| Any specifics available as to how the trail plans to give back to the local fishery where the event was held? I know that I had to make a formal request of the PMTT to help fund a stocking effort/habitat improvement here on the 100% club maintained fishery on Petenwell flowage, and they came through with flying colors as they should have. With that said, I feel it should be done without being prodded. I could care less about what the payouts are, or who is sponsoring the deal, as in my opinion any trail should be giving back to the fishery(especially those completely reestablished and maintained by club funding/or maintained entirely by stocking in general) as much as giving to themselves and their entrants. Sounds like a well thought out trail with some seasoned professionals at the helm, so am sure this type of local support has already been added into the equation. It is amazing what a small(in the grand scheme of things) donation to a local club for supporting the fishery the event is held on can do for image. |
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| Seems like an high goal the people behind the MAC has set here ... hope it comes together. Contact info, rules, schedule, etc. would be great to see ASAP. I really like the idea of the autmatic give-back to the fishery and hope that happens as well. |
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Posts: 75
Location: Aurora, IL. | Reelwise,
Your statement: The PMTT is not having a tough time filling up because of location. Is false.
Here's an example of the attitudes from the guys I hang with that have fished the PMTT for years.
2006
Cave Run-We all like
Petenwell- No like
Eagle River- Take it or leave it
Vermilion- Love it
Championship/Fox Chain- No like
2007
Fox Chain- Please!
Eagle River- enough already!
Cass- Love it (late to let us know)
Madison Chain- ehh/ok
Championship/Cave Run- We like
2008
Cave Run- Ok starting to get old
Shelbyville- No like
Eagle River- enough
Detroit River- Forget it
Championship/Bemidji- awesom
2009
Cave Run-Ok now it is old
Fox Chain- Really
Eagle River- Really
St Croix River- ? maybe
Madison Chain- OK
Point is we are getting tired of fishing the same water year after year. And its not exciting water with the exception of the Minnesota systems and Cave Run.
I agree that fishing different lake, reservoirs and rivers is an excellent test, however your arguement that the lakes or their locations have not been a problem for the PMTT in filling fields is incorrect.
Bottom line here's how it's going to break out for 2009, not for everyone but for most;
1) We fish the PMTT at Cave Run (becuase its April and we want to fish) For the guys coming from northern Wisconsin and Minnesota maybe not even then.
2) Probably will fish the Fox Chain (bitching the whole time) because it's close. But I doubt guys from Minnesota and Northerm Wisconsin are coming down.
3) The rest of the schedule is up in the air until we see the MAC tournament schedule.
Mixed in between we fish various the WMT events (which we like alot), IMTT events and Ironman events. These events are scheduled mainly because we like the bodies of water the tournaments are held on, and because the folks that run them are good guys.
We totally understand that certain bodies of water are off limits because of boat restrictions and numbers, but what about the championship at Kinkaid?
And why not fish more Minnesota or Wisconsin waters, it's were we all grew up fishing for muskies.
No one ever sent us a survey to see what lakes we would like to fish. I received one questionairre as far back as I can remember and it came from the WMT.
Some may say that the MAC has to get it right right now or their doomed. I disagree, they will have a couple year honeymoon to fine tune their format, schedule, payouts, etc. Frankly I think the PMTT (whom I think so far publicly have been classy in not bashing the MAC) has the white hot spot light shining directly on them right now. I think it's safe to say all tournament anglers want all tournaments tours to succeed, hopefully some added competition for tournament anglers will help sort this situation out.
Joe
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Posts: 1636
| Joe, how can you speak for everyone? I know plenty of people that love the PMTT and their lake selection. You just named 10 different bodies of water over a 4 year period. Is that so bad? So what if Shelbyville is a Challenge... Its a very large lake and puts out a good number of fish and some quality fish too. I personally really like it and would fish it more if it were closer since its the biggest muskie lake we have in the state. I love the challenge. I can understand why people don't like the Fox Chain, but you don't have to deal with the pleasure boaters in the spring. Its a complex chain of lakes with a lot of fish in it. The locations of the event may be part of the problem and I should have stated what I wrote differently, but the economy may be an even bigger problem. Gas prices, lodging, bills, etc etc are all part of the "problem," which does factor into "location" due to how much money people have to fork out. So, you would fork out the extra money to fish the MAC because of where the tournaments will be located... okay, so why did you not just quit fishing the PMTT and fish only the MMTT and WMT events? They fish a lot of different lakes and some real, "trophy" lakes too. Or did you just fish the PMTT because of the "spotlight?" I know I probably don't talk to as many people who fish the PMTT as you do, but I talk to a few. The only 2 bodies of water that are on the schedule every single year are Eagle River and the Cave. Like I said, you named 10 different bodies of water over a 4 year period... I don't think lake selection has much to do with it at all. Sure they arent the best choices, but they def. are not the worst. You cant please everybody.
Edited by Reelwise 12/29/2008 2:32 PM
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| Joe, I completely agree. You might get the "regulars" not complaining about the selection of lakes, but I can assure you that new people are not joining because of the selection. I for one am one of these people.
Would I pay extra to fish a new set of lakes I like to fish? Heck yeah I would. The question I ask myself is " Would I want to be fishing this lake if not for the tournament?"
Eagle River? absolutely not
Fox Chain? absolutely not
Madison? maybe, I can live with this one
Cave Run? again, maybe
point is, I don't find any of these to be very exciting. Where are the MN lakes? Vermillion, Cass, Leech, Bemidji Area,..Mille Lacs even....Can't there be a better/fresher option then Eagle River for Northern Wisconsin?
So yes, there are people who are looking for something new and exciting and I hope this new trail might provide that |
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Posts: 75
Location: Aurora, IL. | Reelwise,
If you dont agree with my opinion thats ok, thats what this forum is for. Im just trying to explain how many of us are feeling. As far as Shelbyville is concerned "just give me a weed any weed" , it takes me an hour to clean all the clay off my crankbaits after a day of trolling. Actually there are some darn big fish in the system.
I fished the PMTT as a trail team, now I only fish the lakes that I like. We all have our own reasons for why we fish some tournaments and not others. You mentioned that I might have fished the PMTT for the "spotlight". I'll tell you this, many of us either have some sponsorships or would like to get more. The kind that can pay you money in order to help pay for all the expenses that go into fishing these tours. As far as spotlight goes, that my friend does not exist on the PMTT. Except for a very select few. Having said that the PMTT is what it is, many of us are hoping the MAC tour will become much more.
Joe
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Posts: 1636
| I agree with your opinion just as much as I agree with my own. They should be listening to everyone. Hopefully all trails look at some of these threads and take everything into consideration. I myself will only fish a tournament if I like the lake selection. Sure I believe I could compete on any body of water, but I want to have the best experience possible forking that kind of money out. Hmm... tournament on the Fox Chain or a weeks trip to Northern Minnesota for the same cost... I'd ditch the tournament in a heart beat. |
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| Imo having a tournament trail with the tourneys being held in WI and MN makes a lot more sense than all over the country...you will get more participation than a circuit like the PMTT...imo.
While the $750 entry is fairly high by the competitors standards, it will be very interesting to see if they come close to filling up the 120 boat field with todays economy getting worse by the minute...imo they won't fill up but i've been wrong before .. 
Good luck to those who enter...4 tourneys for the 1st yr is a good start with i bet more planned for yr 2...
i like the idea of giving back to the waters they hold the tourneys on as Reef Hawg states above..that is a good gesture on any tourneys part... |
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| One thing that has to be considered with PMTT lake selections is the draw. Cave Run and Eagle River are "regulars" because they consistently draw a high number of entrants. That is one reason why I fish Eagle River, b/c you know the payout will be 100% or very close.
I would love to fish some other waters, but wonder about the draw. If Bemidji was not the Championship last year, I wonder what the draw would have been? It's an awesome body of water, but it is a long way for many people. |
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