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Posts: 1288
Location: WI | I don't know what I'd do. I used to say I'd thump a 50", and then I released one without a picture. Either way I'd end up getting a lot of attention, and I'm not sure I want that. |
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Posts: 271
Location: davis,IL | This is a hot button issue with some guy's. There are some of you out there who say you would never keep a fish regardless of size. But, I wonder what would you really do if this extemely rare opportunity presented itself. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, or point fingers. Think about it, while saying you would never keep a fish is noble, the spur of the moment decision may differ. I personally would have kept the fish. I feel that keeping one fish as a trophy is not a crime ( the guys I have a problem with are the ones with multiple mounts of one species). My personal goal for muskie is in the 55" range( my pb is a 51.5"), would I keep it? I'm not sure, depends on that spur of the moment thing, and reproductions are pretty impressive. As to a world record potential fish, I suppose if nothing else your name would be house hold name for years to come in the eyes and ears of muskie nuts. I wonder how long Dale's ( 57x33 release) name will be mentioned along with Spray's. If I sound like some kind of glory hound, I'm not, it would be a very personal accomplishment that I would share. I view "us" muskie folks as a kin to big game hunters of years gone by, only without the need to actually kill our prey to "make a kill". For me and my father at least I know a big part of this "big game hunt" is just that the hunt, I feel this is probably a common feeling. |
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| What it comes down to is this : EVERY time you put a hook into a fish. YOU MIGHT KILL IT !! Thats just part of the game. You can do it all right, even have barbless hooks, yet kill a musky. Things happen, all any of us can do is our best to be carefull. Common sense should prevail, but thats not even common these days. To choose to release is ones own perrogative, but I applaude anyone who lets a monster like that go free willingly. Regardless of what Dales motives were, he is not vain, nor insecure, or needing the accolades of his peers. He could really give a crap what any of us think..........He caught it. We didnt. As far as fish breeding into old age..............Who came up w/ this idea that they get too old ? They continue to make viable eggs until death. |
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Posts: 1455
Location: Kronenwetter, WI | I, just for this reason, carry a cryogentic kit in my boat. Put the fish on ice, cert scale, DNR, photo's..reawaken and viola!...realeased record! |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | Thump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I agree with reelman. A replica f a fish that is a worls record would mean nothing to me, just a fake as he said> I'd want the real deal. I also hate to say but with the money to be made off it you'd be much better off the real fish. Its just the plain and simple.
Pfeiff |
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| I will preface this with my personal philosophy on releasing or keeping a musky.....I have no plans on EVER keeping a musky of any size unless something goes bad and the fish dies on me.
With that said, I do not look poorly upon any angler who does decide to keep a fish. I am very proud that most musky anglers live by a strict creed of catch and release....this has taken the sport of musky fishing to a level that I beleive is better than it ever has been in the history of the sport.
Because an angler decides to keep their trophy fish should not be means for ridicule and scathing comments (This opinion is based on keeping A trophy and not ignoring the pratcie of C&R). Far to often, I beleive many of us take a "Holy-er than Thou" approach when we here a a trophy fish being kept. At the point of catching a trophy, every angler has a decision to exercise their own God given free will. As long as this decsion is made responsibly, I beleive the angler should be held in a similar regard as if the fish was released.
I look with admiration upon anglers like Dale who CHOOSE to release a giant that most will never encounter. I also look at anglers like Tom Gelb, who have kept some true giants that again most anglers will never encounter with the same admiration. (noteable: Tom Gelb did catch his fish in very different circumstances and was unsucessful in trying to release his fish). That with standing, I do not beleive the decision to keep or release a trophy should taint the acomplishment of the catch.
With that said, I do hope that most if at all angler will release all fish no matter of size. A world record class fish...hard to fathom that many anglers would release it. With the world record class waters available today and the quality of anglers today, I do think this record will be broken. I would love to see the next world record released, but beleive it will only be offically recognized if kept and ran through every imaginable test possible. |
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Location: Twin Cities | reelman - 12/6/2008 7:37 AM
Jredig, You say that if the fish was killed all the genetics would be lost and that is just untrue. We can presume that this fish has spawned many times already in it's life nad those genes were passed on the first time it and everytime that is spawned.
I know that and am not sure why I posted what I did, strange train of thought. I was thinking along the lines that a bigger fish will produce more spawn and have more potential of carrying on it's genetics. Not sure why that didn't make it to my fingertips! |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
There is something that we need to consider here in regards to being able to ever catch a fish that big (record size) in the first place.
They have to get that big. Very simply if an angler would have kept Dale's fish the year before, than it Dale wouldn't have caught it.
For every 55"er that's killed there is one less chance at a 56+"er to be caught.
To me the answer is simple in regards to intentionlally killing a fish, no matter what the size.
I want to catch more and bigger fish, and that can only happen if they are let go.
What's more fun, catching them, or gawking at them on the wall?
Very simple truth here, the more trophy class fish that are released, the more chances we all have to catch our next PB.
To me that's what muskie fishing is all about, the quest for the big one.
Some dude may be very happy next year when they catch Dale's released fish, that guy could be you!!
JS
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Posts: 12
Location: Saint Charles, IL | At some point in their lives......all fish will die. Dale's fish may be dead already.
Personally, I would rather look at a TRUE World Record skin mount, done well, as it hangs on the wall rather than look at a replica of what it may have looked like by creating it from measurements that may or may not be accurate.
But that's just me. |
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Posts: 12
Location: Saint Charles, IL | The concept that a fish has to die to create a mold for a replica is NOT true. A specimen can be CREATED much like the Frankenstein monster and a mold then made from that creation. There is a replica of Louie Spray's "record" that was done by Artistic Anglers of Duluth. That replica has been shown at many sport shows. There is a copy from that mold at the FWFHF.
There are many ways to accomplish this. The BEST molds, however, are made from the real fish for obvious reasons. Yes, it's best that the fish is dead when doing this.
The fact that this can be accomplished is both a plus and a minus. The plus side is obvious. The negative side is that since virtually any size can be created you never really know what your looking at. The replica on display may never have existed as a living fish. It is only a representation of how a real, or imaginary, fish might appear.
I should mention that not all taxidermists have the capability to do this. Most taxidermists are NOT mold makers. Most taxidermist rely on mold makers to supply the "blanks" of a needed fish to be completed. These "blanks" are limited in size and number. Most, if not all, of these blanks come from molds of the actual fish.
There is still much about this subject that is very misunderstood.
BTW...Thoughts and prayers for all those who suffered and died on this day , December 7, 1941. Pearl Harbor....."lest we forget."
Edited by sknmnt 12/7/2008 9:00 AM
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| There are a few companies out there that make graphite reproductions of just about any fish you want. The take a mold of a fish and then use it to create a replica. They have gotten very good at modifying original molds to create something original and the paint is amazing. They take your photos and paint it to match your fish exactly. The best part about a reproduction is it lasts FOREVER. Your kid's kid's can have it on the wall and it will look the same as when you caught it. Not some shriveled up mess. Think of the stories they can tell about Great Grandpa's big muskie!! Check out the two sites below and I am sure there are many others.
http://www.fittantereplicas.com/
http://www.laxreproduction.com/
Edit: And I believe the cost is the same or less than a skin mount. The most impotant part of a replica is the fish lives to see another day, fight another fight, breed another year, and give someone else an experience of a lifetime.
Let 'em go and let 'em grow!! |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It can be done, and Lax can do it. |
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| uh, they got computers n stuff. They can take a smallermold & ENLARGE it to match the measurements. Anyone thats worked w/ cad or anything like that knows what I am talkin about. Good quality pics, close ups, different angles, all that plays into the accuracy of a REPLICA. |
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Posts: 78
| As has been stated Lax can do it, and if you have a picture of the fish he can put all the markings on thr replica. Unreal what they can do with a picture! From a picture they can duplicate the exact deminsions of the fish- skinny fish, fat fish, humpback, scars on head . No need to kill any muskies anymore! |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | GUEST go to the CHICAGO SHOW and you will see a 57" x 33" MUSKY !!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| for a confirmed world record?
yes, it would realistically need to be harvested. the talk about how to keep it alive for an extended period of time in a net vs livewell, etc. may be entertaining but it's not realistic, imho.
and...since the current world record isn't realistic, it doesn't really matter anyway.
the 60lb minimum for the "modern" records does realistically require harvest for confirmation.
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as to getting a replica?
yes, in fact they can add size to existing molds to make it match the fish. that's already been stated in this thread by an associate of Mr. Lax.
it's a replica, not a skin mount.
that means that the person getting it believed that releasing the fish was more important than having dead rotting skin on the wall.
if the replica is very very close, but not to within an exact 1/8" of girth? so what? the fish was released and that was clearly the most important thing to the angler. we shouldn't be worrying about whether or not the replica will be perfect because the actual fish is still perfect, alive and swimming.
in a catch-and-release sport, we're very fortunate to have a number of options for quality reproductions by skilled artists such as Lax and Fittante and others.
Rick Lax has been extremely generous in his support for MuskieFirst and Muskies Inc, and my personal experience is that his work is first class.
http://www.laxreproduction.com/
congrats to Dale on catching this wonderful fish, and also for selecting Rick Lax as the artist to recreate it for him!
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | I wonder if dale would have released that fish if caught on water where he was allowed to keep it. We really will never know will we. To have that fish on water where you could keep and feeling confident its a new record maybe he would have had a change of heart and kept her. I don't know bit I wonder.. I really think alot of might have 2nd thoghts when its in our net.
Pfeiff |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
I must be missing something. Why couldn't he keep that fish??
I was under the impression Lac Suel was the only C&R only water in Canada.
Regardless, seems a little insulting to infer a man would kill a fish under a different situation when you don't even know him.
JS |
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| I guess it comes down to the individual. How vain,or self absorbed, or narcisistic or selfish , or insecure does one have to be to choose a skin mount over a repro ? " Ah hell, someone else might get her & I lose my spot at the top". If you really think you`ll just get handed $$ hand over fist for your story, or your catch, your sadly mistaken. Fishing is supposed to be fun isnt it ? To me the whole trophy syndrome is old. If your not gonna eat what you kill, then dont kill it. Pretty simple huh ?
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Posts: 86
Location: University of Hartford | ya I know steve but they asked for my opinion and I gave it. |
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Posts: 554
Location: WI | In all honesty, I would take a picture, release it, and keep the photo as far away from the internet as possible and share it w/ only those close to me. I personally could careless about the attention from the general public and would hate getting in the middle of the politics and controversy of is it or isn't it a world record. It reminds of the Rompala buck that was shot not that long ago in Michigan. The buck clearly beats the Milo Hanson buck, but somebody finds something in the photo they don't like and then the internet blows it into a controversy and the actual accomplishment of harvesting that incredible buck is totally lost. If a dead buck whose antlers could easily be measured is fought over, how ridiculous will it get w/ a fish and an already questioned record. |
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Posts: 2024
| Don Pfeiffer - 12/7/2008 9:44 AM
I wonder if dale would have released that fish if caught on water where he was allowed to keep it. We really will never know will we. To have that fish on water where you could keep and feeling confident its a new record maybe he would have had a change of heart and kept her. I don't know bit I wonder.. I really think alot of might have 2nd thoghts when its in our net.
Pfeiff
Dale's fish was caught on the St. Lawrence. There is no C&R only regulation. Fish must be greater than 36" (http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/MNR_E001337.pdf) if I'm interpreting the regs correctly.
I talked with Dale over the phone the other night. First of all, his story (at least I think), is nothing short of amazing. Secondly and most importantly, I can tell you that Dale did not have ANY inclination whatsoever to keep the fish. If you're a member of Muskies Inc., the full story should be published in February's magazine. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If the fish was officially measured and weighed according to the rules of each record keeping group, there would be no reasonable questions, not these days. Another person posting on the internet that they wouldn't post on the internet..
I applaud the angler for releasing the recently caught possible record fish. I think I would have too, actually, but I'm not sure, still debating that one internally.
I think FishFearMe's position is nothing more than polar opposite to the position of others who would harvest a WR. What is the difference between his position and that of those who would harvest the WR if vanity doesn't drive both? If the trophy syndrome is old, then by all means go out and enjoy the sport however it suits you, but to me a trophy is a trophy. Of course, I AM old.
'For other uses, see Vanity (disambiguation).
"Vain" redirects here. For other uses, see Vain (disambiguation).
In conventional parlance, vanity is the excessive belief in one's own abilities or attractiveness to others. In many religions vanity is considered a form of self-idolatry, in which one rejects God for the sake of one's own image, and thereby becomes divorced from the graces of God. The stories of Lucifer and Narcissus (who gave us the term narcissism), and others, attend to a pernicious aspect of vanity. Philosophically-speaking, vanity may refer to a broader sense of egoism and pride. Friedrich Nietzsche wrote that "vanity is the fear of appearing original: it is thus a lack of pride, but not necessarily a lack of originality."[1] One of Mason Cooley's aphorisms is "Vanity well fed is benevolent. Vanity hungry is spiteful."[1]' |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Getting a replica is for the angler to have and enjoy, not for the rest of us.
It doesn't matter if any of us ever "know for sure" how big that fish was, it's really none of our business.
Feel fortunate that somebody shared that catch with you and let you see how big that fish is.
Is Dale not supposed to feel like his fish was a "potential record" because he can't prove it to anybody? His accomplishment isn't diminished one bit by people who won't, can't or don't want to believe in a fish that was released instead of killed.
Crazy, some of you are acting like you shouldn't speculate on the size of anything you don't kill, 'cause you really can't prove it to the rest of us.
JS
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Posts: 802
| hey sworrall, what the heck did you eat for lunch today? a dictionary with a sideorder of thesaurus, chased down by a double shot of theology juice?  |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | Thanks for the info on dale. I thought its caught on lac s. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | esox69,
Naaah, I just think that way, it's a genetic disorder. The definition of 'vanity' was a Wikipedia piece, I ain't that wordy.
Mr. Skarie is spot on, again.
reelman,
It was a possible record. He released it. That's cool. I'll say that again, if you'd like! |
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| Getting a replica is for the angler to have and enjoy, not for the rest of us.
It doesn't matter if any of us ever "know for sure" how big that fish was, it's really none of our business.
right right and right again, John!
reelman, why push an agenda that only skin mounts are "real" and "prove" the size of a fish? it's ridiculously out of touch with the modern catch-and-release ethic, the importance of conserving the trophy resource, and the reality of how good replicas have become.
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Posts: 12
Location: Saint Charles, IL | Having a skin mount done does not guarantee that it will have the accurate finished dimensions of the living fish. We've seen that already with a number of so called record fish that have been mounted and shown to be bogus.
Ideally, a well done skin mount will have the accurate or near accurate dimensions of the living fish.
lambeau, I don't agree that having a skin mount done is "out of touch" with modern C&R ethics. I think we have taken that ethic to a ridiculous extreme in many cases. There is certainly a place for well done skin mounts in a C&R ethic and in the preservation of our resources. That is too often denied by too many people in the fear of spreading the "killing mentality".
Edited by sknmnt 12/7/2008 4:06 PM
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
If the results of today's "golden days" of muskie fishing are because of taking C&R ethics to the extreme then that really makes "extreme" a positvive place to be IMHO.
JS |
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