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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There are many fishing Outfitters. |
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| ok thank's never new |
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Posts: 89
| Guides, aren't just there to show you the meat! I personally enjoy teaching anglers how to handle, release, and catch muskies in an effective and ethical manner. The areas I fish gps is not necessary for the most part. I don't discourage anglers from bringing a gps in anyway, with todays mapping gps units there are few secret spots left. Of course if I have a secret spot, I ask anglers to respect that. But I would never be upset if I saw another fisherman on one of those spots. They paid me for a day of learning and knowledge on the bodies of water I fish, and that is what I strive to provide. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | This is an interesting subject, and has been covered a couple times here, I think. |
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| i look at it the same way as bjolly i just have gotten in a few fight's with other guide's in the area that say why do that now were going to have to deal with them and there buddie's every year.
Edited by Anonymous 11/17/2008 7:47 PM
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| i look at it the same way as bjolly i just have gotten in a few fight's with other guide's in the area that say why do that now were going to have to deal with them and there buddie's every year.
i'm confused about your purpose here...
you're "anonymously" (even though it's obvious who this is) posting a "question" for guides to answer and then arguing with the responses you get?
if you're looking for support for your point of view on this, why not just be open about who you are and what is your perspective?
if you show something to a client or even certain friends (a technique, spot, etc.), you should probably expect it'll get used in the future. you haven't kept it secret, so it's no longer a secret.
most guide clients are paying to be put on fish or to get some lessons to improve their own techniques. a good guide can probably do those things without having to resort to secret/unknown/unpressured waters.
taking clients to known spots on well-publicized waters is VERY different than showing them unknown lakes or rivers, especially if those are small waters that are easily susceptible to pressure. VERY VERY different.
it's probably a good idea to think about that before taking a client to certain places, especially if it'll mean upsetting other guides or local fishermen who could be helpful to you with information in the future if you respected their wishes about being quiet about those waters.
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Posts: 2089
| I ask questions of clients when they book the trip. Lots of questions. If they are hiring me to LEARN the water and plan on returning on their own at some point, I tell them to bring a GPS. I can point out spots on a map, but also having the "correct" path or route can make all the difference. In my mind, these folks are making an investment in their future. Now, if someone "smuggled" one on board, being sneaky like, then it's pike all day.Hahhahahahahaha. Oh, and if your guide gives you lots of info and goes above and beyond.......show your appreciation. Steve
Edited by Steve Jonesi 11/17/2008 9:47 PM
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | I think thats going a little too far. Guides rely on repeat business to make a living. If they are going to mark the spots on a gps they are less likely to hire him again. I doubt I'd allow it in my boat.
Pfeiff |
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Posts: 2089
| They'll hire me again, because in my boat it's not just about the fishing. That can be good too though. Hahahahahahahaha. I'm the "shortcut". I take out many very experienced/accomplished anglers who , in all honesty, don't "need" a guide. I'm a source of information, another resource if you will. The best anglers are on a constant quest for information. That's where I come in.It's all about the learning man. Funny though, not a lot of secrets on a 132,000 acre puddle. They go blindfolded to the "backwoods" lakes though.Hahahahaha.Screw me once , shame on me, screw me twice, I'll drill holes in the bottom of your boat at 2am. Hahhahhahahahahaha. PIRATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Steve
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Posts: 74
Location: thunder bay | well everyone know's that i'm the one that put it up and thank's for all of you for saying something. i now know i was doing the right thing and that's my job as they hired me to do.
Edited by muskynate 11/17/2008 11:07 PM
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Posts: 74
Location: thunder bay | i have just got alot of hassel for doing it the way i do it. so i wanted to know how everyone else handled it.i just wanted to put up everything that was said to me about it. i was all way's like hey there here for a week at the most and paid that much money to put fish in the boat i'm going to do what they pay me to do put them on fish.
Edited by muskynate 11/17/2008 11:19 PM
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Posts: 74
Location: thunder bay | good way to put it jonesi
Edited by muskynate 11/17/2008 11:22 PM
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Posts: 366
| As a private entrepreneur you or they have every right to refuse service to clients who would like to bring a GPS with them in the boat. But you have to ask them, if all they have to offer an angler are fishing spots, then how truly valuable are they?
It can also seem as hypocritical when you think of hiring guides to learn lakes and spots and then later start a guiding business of your own based on some of that information. What could be a more direct example of taking money from guides or “stealing it”, if that is the case?
Maybe that’s part of the reason for animosity among fellow guides?
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Posts: 74
Location: thunder bay | hey i worked my ass off and spent alot of money to find out everything i got on my own by reading and whatching lot's of book's, mag's and video's.i have put some of those guide's on the hotest spot's on the lake
Edited by muskynate 11/17/2008 11:36 PM
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Posts: 366
| So none of those other guides you show spots use them with their clients or ever fish them on their own? If so, then how is it that some one else using your spots for profit is ok, but someone who paid you using them for pleasure is not ok? Maybe I'm not understanding what your complaint really is, but from what I've heard it sounds pretty hypocritical to me, but I've been wrong before.
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Posts: 74
Location: thunder bay | no i give people that hire me allmost everything i have and other guide's to. i was just wondering if other guide's do so or if not.because where i guide everyone is all about keeping it to them selves. |
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Posts: 74
Location: thunder bay | turst me i'm all about putting people on fish. i don't even fish most the time unless they tell me to so they even have more of a chance at boating one
Edited by muskynate 11/17/2008 11:51 PM
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Posts: 1289
Location: WI | I think a gps could be handy while night fishing. I know a few months ago I was fishing with a guide and had no clue where we were. That's fine though, he marked up my map and showed me a bunch of spots.
Another guide I fished with didn't mind me sitting there marking my map up while we were buzzing around. He was pointing out where to go in the springtime, late fall, etc.
I don't think taking a gps with would fly out east. I guess I'd rather just get a small feel for the spot while with the guide, and then try and figure it out a little more on my own. |
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| I think when you hang a guide shingle out you need to quickly realize there are NO MORE secrets. If the goal truly is giving all clients 100%. I have no problem with that, but what this does is take away the right to complain if a prior client is fishing “your” spots. You decided to guide, you decided to take money to show people techniques and spots.
Most people on this site are likely to hire a guide to shortcut the pattern on a week long trip, much like Steve said above. Or to be guided to a trophy on a LARGE body of water.
Two Nate’s fellow guides, I would say they are old school, and just don’t understand how it works now. If you have secrete spots that you don’t want others to fish, you shouldn’t be guiding. I think it as simple as that.
Nail A Pig!
Mike
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Posts: 376
Location: Lake Vermilion Tower, MN | I have never told a client that they couldn't bring a GPS along on our trip.
Before the advent of GPS, I always marked a map with the spots we had fished, so they could find the spots on their own.
I always appreciate it when they ask if it's OK. Many spots are seasonal anyway and they may only be around a few days. I can adjust my plan of action if I see a boat on a spot I was going to fish. 
If your're guiding for a living like I do, you better have more than a couple of spots to fish. If I see a client on a spot I showed them I just wave and move on to the next spot.
I also enjoy getting e-mails from clients with photos of fish that they caught on spots that I showed them. I don't agree that you never see those clients again. I have a good number of regulars that GPS the spots we fish and have for years.
Like Steve W. said, there is much more to a guide than just showing you some spots to fish. I'd have to say a spot is a spot, is a spot, if you don't know how to fish it correctly.
"Ace"
Edited by guideman 11/18/2008 9:16 AM
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| Maybe instead of whining about your clients you should just not take them to your best spots. You don't sound like you know what you're doing and you don't sound very professional. I don't think you are whoever you are pretending to be, either way just stop whining. |
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| Not sure you're "entitled" to anything when you hire a guide, only what you agreed to beforehand. So ask the guide, or outfitter, or whatever you want to call him, if you can bring/use your GPS. Then decide how to proceed according to his answer. Is it really more complicated than that? |
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Posts: 691
Location: nationwide | I will agree to what "guest" said in concept in the whining reply. But you will notice I have a signature at the bottom of my reply. Man up to your opinions people.
Corey Meyer
Edited by muskymeyer 11/18/2008 10:19 AM
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| any guide should expect his/her spots they take customer to get crushed after that.....the spots and patterns will get beat into a pulp until they no longer will work and the guide should expect lots of pressure on the spots they take customers too...and a overall increase of pressure on the lake.. its a tough deal, but we all pay taxes...even somebody that didnt hire a guide can look over and see what they are throwing and areas they are fishing and go over a crush the spots, its not hard to figure guides out!! IMO opiniion guides are worthless for the lakes, most dont give any back to the community and crush it into a pulp so when weekenders want to try to catch fish it makes it pretty tough (good luck).. |
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| The same could be said of the WMT. |
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Posts: 313
Location: On your favorite spot | Steve, you're way off base. The only thing that matters on the lake is whatever has happened in the last 3 or 4 days before you fish it. That's what a guide is for, to be out there everyday. The good spot/bad spot thing is just a theory and buying into it will hurt you on the water. You can't fish the same spot everyday and catch fish everyday, they move. If you go out and piss pound the same 3 spots each weekend you're not going to do so hot.
Most of the guides do their part for our state and for the resource, sorry the fishing has been crappy for you this year. |
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Posts: 566
Location: Elgin, IL | I believe that Hunter 4 is right on with his comment also. I have only used a guide once, but the one lake that he took me to is one of my all-time favorites.
I have never caught a fish in "his" spots, I have found my own. And I REALLY like that............ 
Edited by Northwind Mark 11/18/2008 1:08 PM
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| "IMO opiniion guides are worthless for the lakes, most dont give any back to the community and crush it into a pulp so when weekenders want to try to catch fish it makes it pretty tough"
totally agree. after this past summer how many well known guides in MN were lake hopping to the lake with the hot bite I have lost respect for quite a few.
I'm curious for the guides making a living off of the fish, how many give back? what do guides that make $400+ per day do for the stocking of the lakes they take their clients to? They are there for the hot bite, get their clients on a bunch of fish then turn around and jump to the next hot lake. With seemingly no care in the world for the pressure and spotlight they are bringing to the body of water. Exploiting might be a bit harsh but aren't they to some extent? One guide put V on the map, only to jump ship this past summer to less pressured waters because he was sick of the pressure. But wasn't he part of the cause?
just a little venting on a boring tuesday. some might not be on target, but some of it is.
Personally I would love to see the day the DNR makes a guide get a guides license for one lake and one lake only for a full season,and charge a pretty penny to the guides with 100% of the fee going to stock the lake. |
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Posts: 313
Location: On your favorite spot | If you're an MI member in Minnesota than you've been the benificiary of seminars put on by various guides, along with the time and product that most of them DONATE.
If you're not, than you're probably not much better than the people you describe in your own post.
You guys think guiding is some kind of glamorous, get rich and catch 5 fish a day profession and with lots of chicks in camo bikinis (nice pic steve) and it's not.
Amazing that this whole dumb thread was started by someone who didn't know how to handle his own clients.
Edited by Marc J 11/18/2008 2:13 PM
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Posts: 8782
| As a professional client, I say you're paying for a day on the water, not free waypoints. Just like every guide is different, every client is different. It pays to know exactly what you expect before you even pick up the phone. I've fished with guides who just take you around, hand you a lure and say "throw this at that"... I've fished with guides who just run the boat and let you decide where/how/with what to fish. I've fished with guides who take you out and explain intricate details of a spot, how the fish set up on it, when to fish it, how to fish it, and when not to bother. I've had guides take me to lakes and show me spots that they would only fish if there were no other boats around. Those are the guides I hire again. And when they tell me something in confidence, I keep it to myself out of respect for the lake, the spot, and the person who showed it to me. Some of those places I wouldn't even think of fishing on my own. Bringing a portable GPS? I would ask first. Some guides I wouldn't even dare ask.
As for hiring a guide being a shortcut? I don't know about that. That's kind of like saying going to school is a shortcut to a good job. |
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