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| Message Subject: Tournaments in '09 | |||
guest |
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| As was stated before, a press release before the Tri Esox show will include more info very soon. | |||
| Top H2O |
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Posts: 4080 Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Ok, Whats the big secrete about ? If yous guy's already know whats happening why the big hush,hush.??? Come on, spill the beans....... Give it up...... Your killing me here, man. Besides, other sites are talking...... I'm doing the PMTT again this yr. but I'm also looking for some more to feed my addiction..... Help me , Fast ! Jerome | ||
| Sunfish |
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| Watch for a press release soon. The circuit will also have a booth at all the Muskie shows. The organizers say it's forming up very well. | |||
| QQHH |
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Posts: 2 | Not sure how many would be interested, but there is also a rumor that 2 or 3 tournaments will be ran in Illinois (Shelbyville, Kinkaid, and one of the other bigger lakes) with about 90% payout in 2010 with the lowest paid spot of $1000. | ||
| Guest |
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| So now it is down from 150% to 100%... Just as I thought ALOT of hype and no real substance or truth... By the time of the press release the payout will be 75% or less... Don't shoot the messenger here, this wet dream of a 150% payout tournament is not happening... | |||
| MuskieFIRST |
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Posts: 507 | I don't think I saw any official statement from a new circuit stating 150% paybacks, obviously it was some anonymous person with wishful thinking or a good sense of humor. On that note, what is the cash payback % of the circuits currently in existence? | ||
| lambeau |
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So now it is down from 150% to 100%... regardless of payout, another well-run non-transport tournament circuit taking place in Minnesota and Wisconsin would be a very welcome addition. i'd especially like to see improved promotion of the personalities of the various trail anglers, since that's what the big bass and walleye tournaments do very well and it helps their anglers get sponsorships. i suppose it's something that MuskieFirst could be helpful with doing in some ways. | |||
| Medford Fisher |
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Posts: 1060 Location: Medford, WI | I completely agree with you Mike in regards to the "i'd especially like to see improved promotion of the personalities of the various trail anglers" comment. I think that would be a really neat thing...getting some info on musky anglers and I really believe it would help them with sponsorship, as you stated. Along the lines of Payout being a motive for getting into tourneys, obviously everybody loves a big payout and the reality (right now anyways) is that there won't be big payouts unless the entry fee is large. I will admit, being a poor college student and all, that entry fees do have an impact on what tournament/s I have or will fish. I would love to fish the WMT on a consistent basis, but with hardly any money and no sponsorships, that's not really going to happen. The Rhinelander Hodag Tournament is a great example of a relatively affordable tournament with a great/guaranteed payout (for first place at least - also important to make a note that this is possible because of a major sponsor and ?probably several smaller sponsors?). One last thing I want to touch on is I really wish that the WMT and other WI tournaments would begin to use non-transport judging/measuring. I know you've discussed this before Mike, and hopefully this will become a reality very soon. Oooh yah, I also forgot to mention that if you're looking for someone to sponsor, I'm more than willing to endorse your product, whatever it is and however I have to endorse it....wait....there might be some limitations on that... -Jake Bucki | ||
| Shep |
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Posts: 5874 | While another circuit may happen or not, I don't expect it will have 100% payout. Not sure if any of the walleye circuits do. The leader would be the FLW, but that is dependant on the boat/motor you own as far as contingencies go. AIM will not have 100%, and the MWC or the MWS doesn't, either. Some Bass circuits may have 100%, but they are soooooo much bigger and established, that wheyther they do or don't doesn't really matter. "even if it were just enough to cover the costs of putting it on, you could get 100% payout. Well, not really. The organizer is going to take his income from that. So even with good sponsors like they already have in the PMTT and the WMT. the organizers take their cut first, and then the payou is determined. The results in a pretty good sponsor to even approach 100% payout. A couple things are going to happen with a new circuit. The new circuit will likely not have full fields. The PMTT and the WMT each will likely see smaller fields. Look, they don't fill all the fields as it is with both of these series. Add another, and there just isn't that many tourney anglers looking for more tourneys to fish. Especially in this economy. As for promoting the anglers? Bass anglers get promoted pretty heavily, but look how long they've been around. Even at that, I bet most here could not rattle off 15 bass anglers off the top. Same with walleye anglers. And I'm not sure the circuits have done a whole lot to promote their anglers. The PWT(gone) the FLW and the MWC don't really do a whole lot to promote the anglers. With the new AIM circuit coming this year, that could change. It's the only circuit out there organized and owned by the anglers, so I expect to see a concerted effort to promote the anglers. With the PMTT, the WMT, and the MMTT, angler promotion is nonexistant. And that makes sense. The circuits doen't exist for the anglers. They exist for the orgnaizers. Money is the thing. It's not about the fish, the competion, or the anglers. It's about the money. Take away the income from the organizers, and you don't have the tournaments. You want to make money on the tournament trail, you've got to promote yourself. Don't look for one big sponsor. Start by looking for a bunch of smaller sponsors, land them, and then work for them. Have nice shirts and rigs. Display the logo's, do seminars, show up at the business with your rig, take them out fishing, keep them updated with results good and bad. And look for sponsors not endemic to the fishing industry. Work hard, and you'd be surprised how much you can end up with in a year. If you win some money on the trail, well then that is a bonus, but don't count on it. I've done the FLW WI League the past two years, and both years, my expenses were paid by sponsor monies. Anything I won was over and above, and I considered it a bonus. But I didn't quit my day job, either. Edited by Shep 12/12/2008 8:47 AM | ||
| HunterMD |
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| I wanted to answer MuskieFirst question about "how much the other circuits pay-out" as it pertains to the WMT before someone answers it that does not take every aspect of a tournament circuit for the whole season, but I am too late. So, I would like to set te record straight about the WMT's pay-outs for the entire season. Last season, 2008, was a very good year for the WMT in regards to paying out for the entire season. Of course by now, folks are aware of Lijewski and Schroeder's accomplishments and the biggest pay-out in muskie fishing history that happened at the WMT's Invitational Championship. For the record, the WMT's 2008 cash-pay back percentage from money collected was 145%. Our pay-back percentage that includes cash and prizes was 183% for the 2008 season. What most people don't take into account when figuring out the pay-back percentage with a tournament circuit, is that money that is paid during the regular season goes to paying out more money at the Championships. That money has to come from somewhere when you pay out more money than you collect at the season ending championship. Also, the WMT raised our entry fees from $260.00 to $300.00 to buy two Ranger Boats that was awareded at the WMT's Championship for a few years, but due to the response that we recieved from our tournament anglers, who wanted more money available instaed of boats, we spend that $40.00 extra dollars on our bonus programs so that extra $40.00 is paid back 100%, up front, but it worth alot more than what we spend for it. If you ask Lijewski and Schroeder right now, they would say that it is money well spent. All eight years of the WMT, since 2001, the WMT has paid back at least 90% for the whole sesaon, but nor that we have included the "MUSKIE GRAND SLAM"(TM), "MUSKIE TRIPLE CROWN"(TM), "MUSKIE DOUBLE HEADER"(TM) and other bonus rewards like the $5,000.00 Lapp Trophy award and the like, the WMT is set up to pay back at a percentage of 135% for the season with full feilds and bonuses captured. But no matter what, the WMT has always paid out at least 90% for the season and we will continue to do so even though when we first started the WMT and said that we would pay-back 90%, the experts said that we couldn't do it. We have been so successful in keeping our promise to pay-back as much as we can, it only took our third season to become the largest muskie tournament circuit every and we have not relinquished our tiltle. As a tournament angler myself, it has always been our philosophy not to make money off the tournament anglers who support us with their time, money, and commitment, but to reward our anglers as much as we can. In fact, we have been so successful in our high pay-outs, we have had other muskie tournaments complain to us, saying that we pay out too much and claim that we are hurting their event. I was hoping that this tournament could pay out 150% and was very interested in fishing the Wisconsin events if they didn't interfere with my favorite events to compete in. I know how difficult it is to pay-back even 90% over a season for a series, and I couldn't figure out how this new series could pay-back 150% but I was hoping. Also, I was hoping that the entry fee was $450 or less, because at a higher amount, I fear it will be very tough for them to come even close to filling. Also, I will bet anything that this new circuit will not be the MAC. I will refer you to the WMT's web site in the HORIZON section. I have tried to find out who this organization is, but this is going to have to be, for now, their official notice of a TradeMark infringement! Thanks Tom McInnis WMT - Co-Founder | |||
| Top H2O |
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Posts: 4080 Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | If this new circut does happen I only hope it's not a "transport" type of venue.or else I may be swayed to fish other events. Jerome | ||
| ranger6 |
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| I am as anxious as the next to see what is in store, but a few observations. * Timing for a new circuit right now is tough. With a terrible economy I see less new tournament anglers getting into tourneys this year. That means tourney teams picking and choosing b/t the WMT, PMTT, and the new circuit. I would hate to see one circuit fold b/c of this. * I beleive the talk of % payout is misguided. What some fail to relize is that muskie circuits do not have corporate sponsorship funding payouts. The sponsorship that supports todays musky circuits helps off-set SOME of the expenses of running the circuit. This is not enough to enable the entries to go straight to the tourney payouts. * Not enough credit is given to the WMT & PMTT for continueing to provide well run muskie circuits. These circuits are run by people who love the sport and put a tremendous amount of time and effort into turning out a good product. For those of us benefitting from from these circuits, lets not take them for granted. * For those who believe the payouts aren't worth the investment....The chance to win $8,000-$20,000 for a weekend of fishing (in a field of 60-150 teams) on the investment of $300-$600 is in my mind pretty lucrative. * To earn sizeable amounts you have to win and that will not change regardless of the % payout. If you don't win you can hardly grumble about the payout. In my mind, anything other than first place is seed money to fund more tourneys and a shot at a win. | |||
| Guest |
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| Lambeau, Just curious. In this day and time as everyone is talking money and economy, why do you think another circuit and as you stated "regardless of the payout" would be good? Why do you think another circuit with low turnouts and low payouts would be good or even survive? You also say ""i'd especially like to see improved promotion of the personalities of the various trail anglers, since that's what the big bass and walleye tournaments do very well and it helps their anglers get sponsorships."" I don't see any circuit, bass, walleye, musky, etc. promoting their anglers. The anglers promote themselves. If they don't promote themselves, they will get nothing. The sponsors of any kind will never come knocking on your door, you have to go to theirs. How are any of the big bass and walleye tournaments promoting the anglers? While hyping and talking about the anglers in this new circuit on Muskiefirst sure wouldn't hurt, it sure isn't going to bring in the sponsors either. I guess I am asking the general public now that do fish tournaments and are on the boards, has anyone received any sponsorships of any kind because everyone knows about them or are very respected on a website or frequent a message board. I still think the anglers that promote themselves will be rewarded, no matter how hard a circuit promotes you or how good you do, if you don't go out there and get it, it ain't coming to you. | |||
| happy hooker |
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Posts: 3156 | well if this new tourney is rumored to have two events in Minnesota,,,they havent tried to have a booth at the muskie expo which you think they would do,,,I talk to the owner of the show at least a couple times a week and he has not been contacted and more then half the booths are sold out | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32919 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Guest, I cover about 20 pro tournaments a year, and can tell you the Pro s Sponsors definitely DO respond to coverage on the Internet, and quite well. The event owners do quite a bit of promoting, albeit not enough...yet. AAIM is addressing that in the Walleye world. In the Bass world, magazine, TV, and Web coverage of the anglers is extensive. Walleye world, you have WalleyeFIRST with our signature coverage, our competition with what they offer, Walleye Insider, FLW's Walleye based tournament magazine,TV and Web, WalleyeFan, and other media. The very concept that 'everyone knows the Pro' is what creates impressions, which is what the Sponsors pay for, so the direct answer to your question is yes. The more press a Pro receives, the more attention given to them in the media, the better the chance at a sponsorship. Here's a little example, from WalleyeFIRST's World Walleye Rankings. This number represents the clicks on the Pros name and pages within the rankings the last seven days from folks visiting that section of the website: World Walleye Rankings™ Most Popular Anglers (based upon clicks over the past 7 days) Pat Byle 1.11% Mike Gofron 0.83% Gary Parsons 0.64% Chris Gilman 0.63% Chad Schilling 0.63% Greg Yarbrough 0.59% Perry Good 0.58% Chase Parsons 0.56% Dan Stier 0.55% Dave VanOss 0.55% (16657 Clicks out of 1334115 Total) 16,657 times folks clicked on an angler in the rankings and looked at his/her standings, etc. That's in seven days during the second week in December. http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/rankings.asp The Walleye circuits make sure we are comfortable, have what we need, and are there covering the events, providing the public and fans with information about the Pros, the events, and more near real time. TV coverage does the same. Magazine comes a bit later. That is how it works. What the Pro does to promote and sell his/her image is just as critical, but is not the only, or even necessarily the primary component depending on the Pro's record. If the Circuit draws or creates little or no press, media, or coverage, then the anglers are on their own. It's up to the event organizers to draw in the media, and by doing so draw in the fans. I don't see any 'hype', I see questions from the public and a few answers that the info on this new venture is forthcoming soon. When the event owners are ready to talk publicly, I suspect THEN you will see the promotional activity begin. | ||
| lambeau |
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Lambeau, Just curious. In this day and time as everyone is talking money and economy, why do you think another circuit and as you stated "regardless of the payout" would be good? Why do you think another circuit with low turnouts and low payouts would be good or even survive? competition is always good. always. why? because it makes everyone better. something about the American way and all that... but you're right, it could mean that the same pie of tournament-anglers is sliced thinner, and eventually that might mean that one or more of the trails would have to shut down. so what? i don't think that's bad. if a trail wants to survive, it better make #*^@ sure that it's doing things right to attract enough anglers, fans, and sponsors. right now, i personally don't like how things are run well enough to plunk my money down with the exception of an occasional MMTT and the judge-boat WMT events early in the season. imho, a "good" trail would involve: - the right locations: upper Midwest where most musky anglers are concentrated; a trail consisting of: Cave Run, Fox Chain, Eagle River, and St Croix River? that's supposed to interesting? hardly. put the locations in range of most muskie anglers and put it on waters people want to fish and about which fans would be interested in hearing the results. - reasonable payouts: i don't want to get rich, but if i catch a fish i'd like a chance to cover expenses and put some extra money in my pocket. - the right format: for me, that's immediate release only, with either judge boats or digital imagery. - responsive and available leadership: i want to be able to talk to the tourney director and get responses in a timely when i ask questions. something that hit those points would make me much more willing to sign up. if that's the case for other people too, it would really mean something and could actually _grow_ interest and participation in tournament muskie fishing. I don't see any circuit, bass, walleye, musky, etc. promoting their anglers. The anglers promote themselves. If they don't promote themselves, they will get nothing. The sponsors of any kind will never come knocking on your door, you have to go to theirs. How are any of the big bass and walleye tournaments promoting the anglers? i'm not suggesting anyone is going to get their door knocked down by sponsors. lol...although Lijewski's door probably SHOULD be getting pounded on! the key item that Steve points out is the ability of the tournament organizers to make their events interesting and available to media outlets. i'm sorry, but publishing after-the-fact results in a newspaper is not exactly compelling "coverage". you're completely right that anglers who want to go through the bother of working to earn and promote sponsors will need to go and seek them out. some won't, some will, but either way it's not going to be manna from heaven. the tournament organizer can't do that for them, but it can help: engaging the media in a way that makes them want to cover your event with publicity ahead of time, live updates during, and results afterwards is an important role that tournament organizers can play...and that helps to create a platform that the angler can point to when approaching potential sponsors. keep in mind that sponsors care much less about whether or not a person wins than about whether or not that person has a lot of visibility to promote their product. | |||
| Slamr |
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Posts: 7069 Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | "I don't see any circuit, bass, walleye, musky, etc. promoting their anglers. The anglers promote themselves. If they don't promote themselves, they will get nothing. The sponsors of any kind will never come knocking on your door, you have to go to theirs. How are any of the big bass and walleye tournaments promoting the anglers?" You must not have heard of BASSMASTERS? It's a quality run organization whose trail can be seen every Saturday morning on ESPN! They focus very LITTLE on the location of the tournament and almost exclusively on the anglers and what they're doing versus the competition during the event. Only in the Texas/Mexico and California tournies do they focus on fish size, and instead make the broadcast presentation built around what each angler is doing and how they're stacking up in the daily standings. They bring out the personalities of the anglers, play on this, and create a situation where you're rooting for one guy versus the other because you like that guy and pull for him. Essentially, the tournament coverage is like a golf or even NASCAR production: cutting to each individual contender, showing where they are on the "course" or track (lake in this case), what they're doing, and where they are in the standings. Watch sometime, you might even find that you're pulling for VanDamm because he's from Michigan, or rooting against Iaconneli because he's such a spaz....you might be shaking your head as to why Aaron Martens blows so many leads going into the final days or why when Timmy Horton wins he seems to DESTROY the field....but most of the time he doesnt make the final day! Yes, bass fishing is world's different from muskies, and muskie tournaments can never be run the same way the Bassmasters is run on ESPN. I'm not going to say that muskie tourneys will ever be as big as bass tournies, and I'm not saying that the money will ever be there for things like live TV broadcasts, and obviously no muskie tourney trail in this day and age is going to do a "live weigh in" at the end of the day with actual fish in a bag. HOWEVER to say that the BASS events are popular because of something outside of the promotion anglers is empirically false. Sad statement on all of this is that I watch maybe 1/2 of the Saturday morning Bassmasters events and productions that I DVR, but being on this website hourly and have (for some strange reason) been a moderator here for 7 YEARS (oy) and I can name more guys on the Bassmasters Elite Series than pro muskie teams. | ||
| Slamr |
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Posts: 7069 Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Troy, You missed my point. I'm not saying that our space in tournaments will ever RESEMBLE that of the BASS world in terms of size and/or membership. What I am saying is that if one is to say that BASS Pros don't get visibility from the tourneys that they compete in, that one person is dead wrong. And btw Troy, you won Top Gun a few years ago. I know this because I've seen you in the jacket....but how many others know this? If we let people know, show them on a consistent basis of what is going on with a tourney circuit, maybe they'll care? Maybe they won't, but I can tell you that if no one knows, or when they do find out it's already old news...then they definitely won't care. | ||
| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8820 | We're a subset of an industry that's relatively small to begin with. Even the most famous muskie anglers are only famous to people who are pretty hardcore into fishing. That does NOT mean that there isn't a substantial amount of money making potential there. The right marketing efforts will attract sponsors. Those sponsors will be people who understand the lengths we as muskie anglers will go to to catch these stupid fish, and the money we will spend doing so. The problem right now with tournaments, sponsorship, and exposure in general right now is that it's all run by muskie fishermen. If you were to get investors, and enough money to put forth a solid and well researched marketing effort, by people who understand marketing, sponsorship, brand awareness, and how to put that all in a pretty package where people would look at it and think "yeah, muskie fishing. I want to try that!" it certainly could be very much bigger than it is today. Will it ever me on par with Bassmaster? Considering that bass are in everyone's backyard across the nation I'd say no. But there's a lot of unrealized potential. | ||
| Muskie Treats |
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Posts: 2384 Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Ranger said: * For those who believe the payouts aren't worth the investment....The chance to win $8,000-$20,000 for a weekend of fishing (in a field of 60-150 teams) on the investment of $300-$600 is in my mind pretty lucrative. Ummmmmmm, sure. The year Troy and I WON the tonka PMTT I figured that I netted around $1000-$1500. We fished 1 event at home so very little in gas used and no lodging. Another event we stayed at Troy's family's place in WI. The 3rd event we got a cabin with 8 other contestants. We didn't fish the first two events. So after all of that we each netted around a grand, AND WE WON!?!?!? I don't know what you think is a lucrative investment, but in the real world tournaments aren't. The only thing that tournaments are really good for IMOP is fun. You bet it can be fun and a great learning experience. There are very few events where you can fish with people from around the country. It teaches you to fish different or to take your tried and true methods on new water. But a lucrative investment they are not. Speaking as one that actually goes out to solicit sponsorships for a tournament, it just got 10x tougher in the last 3 months. Our title sponsor from last year doesn't even know if they'll be in business. The companies that gave cash are tight as a drum. It's this tough and we have arguably the largest and longest running muskie tournament in the country where the money goes back to the resource! I'll be suppressed if this new trail gets off the ground. To my knowledge they don't even have a permit application in with the state of MN. Edited by Muskie Treats 12/12/2008 11:51 AM | ||
| ranger6 |
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| Muskie Treats. I agree with you, once you factor in all expenses your winnings don't add up. As has been stated by many already, there just isn't the sponsorship to make a full time circuit work/payout for the anglers in the muskie world. But, depending on what your strategy is, there is money to be had. The way I look at it is, I have substituted fishing weekends with tournaments. The gas, lodging, food, etc. expenses would be the same regardless. The cost that is 100% incremental is the registration fees. Same goes for a tournament I can reach from home. I would have went fishing anyway, but instead invested in a reg fee, fished for the day and am home at night. I do not know how PMTT traill teams can afford it due to the miles they have to travel. With the family situation for me and my partner, we choose tournamnets that work for us. Living in WI the WMT offers enough tourneys to pick n choose and the PMTT makes at least one stop every year. | |||
| Troyz. |
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Posts: 734 Location: Watertown, MN | Slamr I missed your point, your are correct in the media coverage, I too watch alot of BASS event on saturday morning. The do highlights on the angler some even very in depth. I got some nice jackets, $$$, some baits, and some other small stuff. But right after people we asking man who is calling you looking for you to get on their pro-staff. Not single call was made, to most people suprise, not mine. It is a small market sport. But I did become a lot better fisherman in those few years, and the is priceless, and also gained alot new friends. But cost and travel time is what pushes me away from doing the trail. Troyz | ||
| Don Pfeiffer |
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Posts: 929 Location: Rhinelander. | Media coverage: I don't see any of the muskie tournaments ever generating any media coverage of any magnitude. No press releases sent to the cities of those anglers that place. Little coverage in sporting papers or magizenes.No effort on tournaments part to arrannge press conferences or tv news coverage. They just are worried about bottom line and not much else. I brought it up to someone at musky hunter about the use of musky hunter to promote the trail teams on the P.M.T.T. and he was very negative about it. When they can't get one of the major sponsors to promote the anglers why should anyone else get involved? I feel the opportunity is there to promote it but it takes a hardworking individual to do it. Musky fishing is growing in popularity greatly. There is a chance to make it a bigger event. I just don't see it heading in that direction with the organizers that are running these events now. Hopefully someday I will see it but doubtfull. Troy z is right about the expense. Winning a P.M.T.T event one year that I fshed all 4 events and champioship did not net me much cash. I think you can figure every event you fish out of your home state is going to cost you about a grand. If you say less less its because your wife might read this. Pfeiff Edited by Don Pfeiffer 12/12/2008 9:36 PM | ||
| Sunfish |
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| Anglers Insight Marketing is pushing for change big time in the Walleye world and has created a new model for competitive walleye fishing. Maybe this group will create a new model for competitive muskie fishing, and that's good. If the payout is going to be significantly higher and deeper, that's good. If this circuit is about promoting the sport, the fishermen, and the promotional partners in that order, not the organizers interests, that's good. If the organizers know how to get the fishermen promoted and how to draw fans to the events in person and in other ways, that's good. If the media is there and Don P's list of things needed is attended to, that's good. If members of the fishing industry start out supporting this new deal even in a tough economy, that's good. If one or more of the events can be multi-national, that's good. If non endemics are interested in the circuit, that's good. If a team can fish this and expect that if they win, anyone who is interested in Muskie anywhere will know they won and how they won the day they won, and the Team can then capitalize on that in marketing themselves, that's good. A press release will be out soon, and the schedule will be set, permits applied for, etc. What's the harm in trying to better the sport for everyone investing, especially the competitors and the companies that support them? | |||
| Shep |
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Posts: 5874 | I think the next attempt at a muskie circuit should be a pro/am format. A big change from the team approach. Otherwise, it's just the same ole, same ole. What really would be different about this new circuit? Judge boat/transport, CRR. Who cares? If you are serious about tourney fishing circuit, then you realize it's about the money. Not the fish, or the thrill of the competition. It's about the money. Show me an angler that fishes tourneys for any other reason, and I'll show you an angler that never makes money on any circuit. | ||
| Guest |
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| You guys missed my point when I said no circuit promotes their anglers, bass, walleye, etc. Yes, BASS MASTERS is all over the TV and FLW, but they are giving them the exposure because of the shows and magazine they are connected with and the owners/orginizers are trying to promote along with their tournaments. If these alnglers weren't in the running, lead or winning there ain't going to be much promotion or exposure. This is all done on TV and major magazines, who has this in the musky world? All the talk or hype on the internet and message boards isn't going to get it done, with out TV, magazines, newspapers, advertising, etc. Judging by what Don Pfiefer was saying, he wanted musky hunter to just promote all the team trail competing in the PMTT and they were reluctant. Why would Musky Hunter do that. Don P wants it, as I am sure many others do, to maybe help or benefit him/themselves or even the PMTT. How is this a benifit to the magazine, thus their reluctancy. Why would a seperate company that sponsors the trail take on the extra expences and printing costs to help promote everyone. If you can't get the largest musky magazine in the world to promote the anglers, as Don P has stated, on a circuit they sponsor already because they don't even think it makes sense financially (I am guessing here), what magazine is going to promote the anglers on a new circuit, let alone get TV coverage. Internet talk or message board hype is only seen by the ones veiwing that board and then the link to that discussion. And again as Troyz and Muskie Treats have stated, no one, not one sponsor ever called them about sponsoring them and everyone knew they had won a couple times (I think twice). This makes my point again as you have to go promote yourself. Slammer if you know this because you ONLY seen it on his jacket as you stated, come on. You actually never heard that, of it or seen anything and then you run into Troyz at a show or on the water and say wow, congrats, what happen, I never heard of this. I also don't think holding a trail in just one or two states is going to appeal to any major companies for sponsorship. I don't see any of the existing musky circuits raking in the sponsors. Hold a major musky trail :upper Midwest where most musky anglers are concentrated; - - you might fill the events, but what sponsors/major companies want to just sponsor something locally. I think the other existing tournaments show this by the sponsors they have already after years. I think all of the existing circuits have had some full fields over the years and the MMTT had full fields at every event this past year, but none of them have major company sponsors. I think the musky market in general is too small to bring in the large companies. If you don't spread this new circuit out and hit some other waters/states, it will not appeal to major sponsors even if the events fill. And aren't we talking about major sponsors for the anglers and the circuit for financial backing? - "reasonable payouts: i don't want to get rich, but if i catch a fish i'd like a chance to cover expenses and put some extra money in my pocket". How can this even be possible and why should it be? Shouldn't you earn the win or the payout. You shouldn't be rewarded for just catching a fish, you should have to beat the field to place in the money. Don't some of the tournaments have like 30 fish caught. Why should all entries and expenses be paid for because someone boated a legal. - the right format: for me, that's immediate release only, with either judge boats or digital imagery. -- I agree, but I still believe the majority of anglers would rather do transport instead of digital imagery, they want someone else to witness the fish? Maybe? "the key item that Steve points out is the ability of the tournament organizers to make their events interesting and available to media outlets. i'm sorry, but publishing after-the-fact results in a newspaper is not exactly compelling "coverage". - Then why does the FLW and BASSMASTERS film TV shows? It is after-the fact results/coverage. If you are looking to show sponsors or generate sponsors for the circuit, just having it out there as much as possible is whats important, everyone has already agreed on this. Sure, live or up to date coverage is cool, but how many people are actually on-line looking for this during the summer months when tournament are held. Aren't most out enjoying the outdoors anyway and not in the house checking a website. Don't most (I said most) come back to work on Monday and look for results or how the weekend went fishing wise.. Is there another vehicle to promote tournaments live or up to date then the internet and how many people are on line during the summer looking for up to date results. How does it change the interest if they found out the next day or after the tournament. Yes, it's old news to some but I would think the same people that wanted to know still would. Way too long, it must be winter. | |||
| Guest |
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| Shep, you are right. PRO/AM. Totally different from any other circuit, you already have a witness, so no transport or judges and he helps with picutres and release. They draw for partners the day before like bass and walleye do. Now that would be exciting!!! PRO/AM. | |||
| happy hooker |
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Posts: 3156 | the only problem with a pro/am event is that now the pro spends twice has much,,he wont have a partner to travel with and split expenses gas,hotel,etc | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32919 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | ' Then why does the FLW and BASSMASTERS film TV shows?' Because BASS is owned by ESPN. The In Fisherman Professional Walleye Trail had a stellar TV production, In Fisherman Magazine, and Walleye Insider. Major sponsors pulled out and the PWT is gone. OutdoorsFIRST was chosen as a partner to stream the last few PWT weigh ins live, and In Fish was very happy we did linking the live feeds on the In Fish website. The FLW is, for all intents and purposes, a Ranger Boats promotional vehicle first and foremost. Good folks, Mark and Sonny are top notch tournament execs/personalities and do a great job. The top execs at FLW are some of the best in the business. Great folks and great events, and they welcome us with open arms allowing and even encouraging live steams and color commentary from in front of the stage. They do TV because that's the model in place right now, and BASS does TV. FLW dropped the TV and the Circuits for Redfish and Kingfish this year, and put a ton of money in collegiate bass. 'Internet talk or message board hype is only seen by the ones veiwing that board and then the link to that discussion. ' You seriously underestimate or do not yet understand the shift from print to web based news. Hype? News is not Hype. Well produced live coverage enters more households than you think. What do you think the circulation of Hunter and Esox Angler are, combined? 'what magazine is going to promote the anglers on a new circuit'. Is the new circuit looking for print? And if it's done right, what magazine wouldn't? 'And again as Troyz and Muskie Treats have stated, no one, not one sponsor ever called them about sponsoring them and everyone knew they had won a couple times (I think twice)' Who's everybody? How would potential sponsors 'know' what treats won, unless they read about it on an internet message board a couple days after the event is over in a post placed by the event...not even an official press release? And, since when does it work that way? It never has, unless the Pro is a Superstar and even then he'd better me making the calls or he'll be 'sponsor-less'. Holding new events in the heart of muskie country isn't a bad idea, I don't think. What advantage for sponsors is there to promote an event in Kentucky, or Detroit, over say...Madison, Milwaukee, Cook, Cass Lake or the Hayward areas? it isn't the location, it's the coverage and impressions created that matters to sponsors. ' Don't most (I said most) come back to work on Monday and look for results or how the weekend went fishing wise.. Is there another vehicle to promote tournaments live or up to date then the internet and how many people are on line during the summer looking for up to date results. How does it change the interest if they found out the next day or after the tournament' Most big tournaments are not strictly weekend events. FLW Walleye starts mid week, and end with a final field of 10 on a Saturday, coverage runs Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. What's a 'large' company? How much sponsor money is needed? Guess we'll have to wait and see what this outfit is all about, they might not be looking for 'large' sponsors. | ||
| Don Pfeiffer |
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Posts: 929 Location: Rhinelander. | First off let me say I had sponsors and most of my expenses were coverd. I did not need the publicty that musky hunter could have gotten for the thr trail teams. The year I am talking about is the year Jim Saric stood in fronto all and told us about getting sponsors. He came acros to me as he thought this would be easy and that there is money out there you have to after it and be aggressive. Now look at who owns musky hunter and then explain to me why it would not have benifited them to give trail teams more publicity. He is also part of the P.M.T.T. Now the more publicity the anglers get the more the P.M.t>t> gets and the more money and sponsors they can get. That translate inot money in the pockets of them not the anglers. The point I am working on getting across is pretty simple. The tournaments need to help the anglers with publicity as they benifit as much if not more then the angler. I've only fished fished 2 P.M.T.T events in the last 3 years so its not going to benifit me in anyway> I stated what I feel to help those that are still fishing them. You made it sound as if I was out to promote myself and thats not the case at all. Also be nice if you did not hide behind guest. Say who you are and I'd explain more in a pm to you. Better then airing it all out here. Pfeiff Edited by Don Pfeiffer 12/13/2008 8:23 PM | ||
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