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Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The question was why trolling is illegal in N Wisconsin. Keep in mind, there's OTHER species of fish in our lakes too, so it's illegal for all. Biological impact? Nil. Harm to the fishery? Nil. Bother folks who A) Don't like trolling B) Like to be in peace and quiet and are worried trolling will disrupt same C ) are otherwise bothered by the concept...tradition. Does it bother me either way? No. I can always row troll, and have the boat to do that from. Can I find anything that isn't a 'social issue' reason to support the law? Not really, no. From my perspective the reason we can't troll up here is because the preponderance of the local vocal population doesn't want us to, and I was there and a Guide when it changed, both for backtrolling and then back the other way, Oneida has it right by my memory.
Tradition.
Same reason Jim Kalkofen, me, and a group of others who wanted the season had one heck of a time getting a black powder season lobbied into existence. Traditionalists didn't like that idea at all.
Now I DO fish Canada and other areas in the US. Some smaller waters at times, too, and larger water with more walleye angling pressure than I see on Pelican or George in a year, most trolling. I don't remember a single instance when I thought to myself, 'Man I wish that guy wasn't trolling, the disturbance to my Zen Angling for the Mystic Beast that is Muskie is horrible!', but that's me.
FSF,
Ben did a great job with Research Forum driven hyperbole on that one. Funny stuff. |
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Posts: 89
| Trolling doesn't kill fish, people kill fish. Raise the size limits, educate anglers, and troll on! |
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| Once again, interesting posts on a well-chewed topic. Lots of diverse perspectives and I appreciate the courtesy with which they are shared.
I live in Michigan where we can troll, and I've done a lot of it. It is not easy to troll well; effective trolling requires careful thought on matching your gear to the environment. Read the trolling chapter in Joe Bucher's "Crankbait Secrets" and you'll see that he's got it down to a science. Its my impression that Kingfisher is also a master troller, as are Shep and certainly Extreeme Mike. All these guys promote catch and release.*
* Note - I dreamed that if Shep happens to snag a Democrat while trolling, he unhooks the poor sap at boatside with big channel locks and then as the dazed and bleeding person is trying to climb into his boat, Shep "releases" the catch by wacking him/her on the head with a small bat. The liberal slides back down into the water and Shep adds 10 points to his tally. He gets 20 points if the person is wearing tiedye teeshirt, and 50 points if that teeshirt says either "Grateful Dead" or "Phish".
(Shep......I thought you would get a chuckle from this nonsense about you. As always, best wishes to you and yours. Signed, your favorite liberal.) |
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| I am kind of in the middle of this one but has far has this method catching more fish. I have fished the Kevin Worrall tournament on Pelican for ~17 years. Only missed a few years. There are usually around 10 legal (above 34") muskie caught each year. The one year that back trolling was legal, in my memory serves me right there were ~28 legal fish caught that year and I remember quite a few were caught back trolling. I would like Norm Wild opinion on this especially for Pelican. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | the one time we trolled for muskies was on legal water ... tired cause we had a long, long week. we put out a couple jakes behind the boat and then drove til the drag clicked off and caught a 50" muskie. we trolled along a known nice breakline ... did a turn and a pause at an inside turn ... caught a big fish.
now ... were we lucky? or were we good?
i just remember being too tired and chuckin a couple baits into the water and then driving down a piece of structure ... so it must have been luck.
people playing the depth and baitfish location games with presentation specifics using leaded lines, certain baits, downriggers etc ... yep, those guys are good ... darn good ... but running big body baits down a weed edge ... somebody tell me that's a skill other than not driving your baits into the thick weeds ... i'm not trying to denegrate trolling but some lakes ... come on you can fool a dummy but sometimes it simply is what it is ... and lots of the small northern wisconsin lakes are simply that ... drive the boat and catch a fish. lived in minnesota on water since i was 8 years old trolling our lives away ... sure you learn some techniques but it's the easier variety of choices to contact fish ...
certain times of year (november) on certain bodys of water (vermillion for example) though without it as an available technique it could make for a rough outing. |
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Posts: 5874
| Not sure if I laughed harder at Ranger's lib bit, or at EA's response to my agreement with BenR. hehehe
I wasn't being the least bit serious with that part of my answer, EA. I just said it to as an example of how much things get overanalyzed sometimes.
And sled, I would say you were mostly lucky. But, you did put the bait in front of a fish that was ready to eat. I bet you couldn't repeat that day in and day out, though, untill you learned what you do right, and what not to do that is wrong.
Like I said, thoug. I really don't care if I never get to troll in those counties. Just so long as I can troll as I currently do on my home waters.
Edited by Shep 9/26/2008 2:34 PM
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Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI | Trolling is a good way for the fairer, gentler sex to fish. Ladies have no business throwing big masculine lures full of sharp nasty hooks. Too dangerous. They could get hurt.
It also is a fine tool for fat, lazy, gray haired guys with poor vision, who like to drink beer and sit on a soft comfortable seat, and who think casting hurts their shoulders and affects their golf swing. Sucker fishing works for those kind of guys, too.
Kevin
Playing with strangers tomorrow.
Edited by MuskyHopeful 9/26/2008 3:40 PM
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Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | Muskystalker - indirectly answered the question: "The anti-trolling WI crowd are just elitists, who want to control their little corner of the world. "
Yes! No matter what we think, it's "their little corner of the world", and they have every right to control it! However, I wouldn't call them elitists. This is the USA, we all have certain rights and freedoms. As nonresidents we have to respect the residents wishes and rights. It's the same going to Canada or Norway or Russia, or China or any where else outside of where you live, i.e., you're not at home. The rules and laws change. Did you know it's illegal to posess chewing gum in Singapore? The penalty is public flogging. If the people of Vilas & Onieda counties, etc. don't want motor trolling, so be it. As fisherman we all have a choice, i.e., either not fish there or fish there by their rules. It's no different than you going to Utah to muskie fish, i.e., no live bait! NO SUCKERS! Oh my, what to do? Why is it illegal? Are all Utah residents a bunch of fly fishing elitist's? I don't think so. They probably have pretty sound reasons for the no live bait rule - the most obvious being to keep out invasive species, and very easy enforcement. Obviously the majority of the Utah residents have to support it. Just like the majority of folks in Vilas county have to support the no motor trolling regulation there.
Have fun!
Al |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "Kingfisher, You can troll in a MI/WI boundry lake with a WI liscence also but you can only troll on the MI sign."
LVD is the only wis/mich boundry water you can troll the Michigan side from. Stated right in the Michigan regs. |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | ""The anti-trolling WI crowd are just elitists, who want to control their little corner of the world. "
That "little corner" encompasses about 2000 lakes and some of the best musky fishing in the state. The WDNR are Elitists? Then why isn't there a 54" size limit on Green Bay? |
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Posts: 2361
| MuskyStalker - 9/25/2008 11:00 PM
We can troll all waters here in IL, and guess what? Our waters aren't "wrecked" and in my opinion, IL produces better quality average fish than WI. .
Stuff those WI lakes with shad, pack the fertility in until they are near winterkill status every year because of 02 depletion under the ice, and then see how they stack up.  |
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| Ya it sure would be a shame to allow a tactic that would allow more fish to be caught. Maybe we shoudl outlaw DC10's right away also since they are so effective that it's not even fair. (sarcasim)
Some will say that you can row troll but that is only for those who have a seperate special boat for it and are physically fit enough to do it. |
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| You all crack me up, Jesus Sled, an old woman catches a 50 plus inch muskie on a worm and bobber.....is she good or lucky? You do like to pat yourself on the back for sure. WI is Elitist, but on debating nonsense. Trolling would not effect those 2000 lakes at all...they are not really fragile. WI is what it is...a bit of the north that has decent fishing...nothing more or less regardless of a 54 inch limit on Green Bay or trolling...just a nice state with nice fishing...that is it... |
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Posts: 2361
| Shep - 9/26/2008 9:48 AM
As for wrecking the lake? Nonsense. I've never hooked fish as deeply trolling, as I have casting. I release every fish I catch, either way. I am no more predisposed to keeping a trolled fish, as a fish caught casting. And I think most, if not all, C&R conscious angler fel the same.
Another post I will respond to in parts.
Unfortunately if WI opened up all waters to trolling not all trollers would be Sheps. Unfortunately also not all anglers that are effective trollers are C&R oriented. Unfortunately some lakes are really laid out to be a trolling bonanza, of course until the population gets thinned out some, and maybe we should argue how many big fish can be harvested in a short time before a lake is in effect wrecked?
As for being easy? Only the ignorant would say that. If you are that opposed to trolling, you've probably never done it. At least correctly, which means you don't have a clue. It's a lot more than just dragging a lure around the lake.
Tollers when challenged, typically want to boost their "art" and "science" with wild claims like this. Ignorant I might be, but it doesn't take brains to figure out some trolling schemes, and be very effective. I am surprised you would even come up with this type statement. I am smart enough to recognize that some situations are tough to troll effectively, and really take some determination to keep at it, but evidently SOME of us don't recognize cherry bowl situations as well as others. Trolling can be spectacularly easy in some lakes and some situations, and can be effective WITHOUT GPS OR A DEPTHFINDER. My biggest KY fish=trolling, my highest size average=trolling, my most fish per hour average, probably trolling. My actual trolling skills as opposed to an expert troller, negligible. I caught my biggest with two rods stuck in boat seats and then strapping the seat in the down position to hold them, and just drove the boat around and caught it. I didn't need to know a whole lot about trolling to catch fish, and neither does anyone else in many situations. It aint rocket science. I certainly have seen enough guys boasting about the dried musky on their deck and asking if anyone wants it, to know, trolling in some waters rewards limited skills as long as you got a boat and a motor.
Get on a lake with a major shoreline break all the way around it, limited cover, limited floating weeds, easy pickins. Get a few guides out with dudes with money and some planer boards and go hit the cisco lakes in late June and July, how long does it take to find the right bait and depth with 8 lines out behind the boat in a 60-90 foot spread? How long do you think it takes guys to figure out how to fish that 60-90 foot spread when allowed?
Edited by firstsixfeet 9/26/2008 8:46 PM
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| Wow Firstsixfeet, you are a great cynic unless you are responding to your own thoughts.... |
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| reelman - 9/26/2008 8:02 PM
Ya it sure would be a shame to allow a tactic that would allow more fish to be caught. Maybe we shoudl outlaw DC10's right away also since they are so effective that it's not even fair. (sarcasim)
Some will say that you can row troll but that is only for those who have a seperate special boat for it and are physically fit enough to do it.
You can choose any boat you want when you spend your money. Row trollers can be pulled with a very cheap, gas conserving auto, motorcyle or bike.
It can't ALL be about making it easier ALL the time.
What would be next, a trolley system so cripples could climb mountains(or claim they did?  |
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| BenR - 9/26/2008 8:53 PM
Wow Firstsixfeet, you are a great cynic unless you are responding to your own thoughts....
I'll bet Sworrall is laughin! |
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| You are a thinker, which I really appreciate...perhaps you should subject your own thoughts to the same scrutiny you apply to others...not sure where the joke is? |
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Posts: 47
| So people can't talk on the phone and fish! duh. |
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Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | FSF, you gotta quit making all that sense. It disturbs people. Eventually, some not-so-well-meaning-fella will compare you to a dude in a TV show about a neighborhood bar, just to try to let you know he thinks you don't. Hopeful, you too, that golf swing just plain seems too important. I speak from experience here...
It's tradition, seriously. Tradition is hard to break, and not always a bad thing. Just sometimes. And then, things just scream for action! That's why a long time ago that goof ran around on a horse and jabbed sticks at windmills, right? |
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| sworrall - 9/26/2008 10:12 PM
FSF, you gotta quit making all that sense. It disturbs people. Eventually, some not-so-well-meaning-fella will compare you to a dude in a TV show about a neighborhood bar, just to try to let you know he thinks you don't. Hopeful, you too, that golf swing just plain seems too important. I speak from experience here...
It's tradition, seriously. Tradition is hard to break, and not always a bad thing. Just sometimes. And then, things just scream for action! That's why a long time ago that goof ran around on a horse and jabbed sticks at windmills, right?
He is and has always been a troller of his own hot air...but that is for better or worse legal in all states.:) |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "Ya it sure would be a shame to allow a tactic that would allow more fish to be caught. "
Nobody is stopping you from trolling in Vilas and Onieda.......get a row troller. You trolling guys have options...stay at home and whine that Vilas/Onieda is no troll or go rent a row boat and work.
I love the fact that its no troll up there. Quiet, no worries about lines and people getting to close...traditional old school fishing, You cast, you row, you work.
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Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The trick is to find someone else to row the rig... |
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | oar locks for an Esox? Hmmmmm. now I'm wondering. |
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | esoxaddict - 9/26/2008 10:40 AM
And Sloan... Come on. Why do you think they have that 11:00 - 5:00 only (or whatever the times are), 200 feet from shore only, etc. rule? Yes, the jet skis and pleasure boaters are a fact of life, and the lakes DO belong to everyone. But are you really trying to tell me that jet ski's whizzing around the lake aren't wrecking the quiet northwoods experience for a lot of people? Wait, that's right -- you fish in Minocqua, nevermind ;-)
Have honestly only seen an restricted hour rule on lakes with an association that impliments it (very few). And even then, have never seen it enforced. Don't really know what that has to do with the discussion since the only time Ive witnessed motor trollers trolling on plane was on the ocean.
My point was 'yes', jet skis do kind of wreck the NW feel, which is why I stated that a 4 stroke run at 2mph isn't going to disrupt anything.
The pontoon trollers piss people off over in MN because they're mishandling and killing fish, not because they're catching them.
If trolling were legalized up here I always thought that a line limit, like 1 per angler - maximum of 4 lines per boat would be in order.
Still can't figure out how a sportfishing technique kills fish, not the person implimenting it.
Pencils also mispell words, and guns have been known to pull their own trigger.
JS
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Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "If trolling were legalized up here I always thought that a line limit, like 1 per angler - maximum of 4 lines per boat would be in order. "
They'd have to do that statewide......Lake Mich trollers would go ballisitc. |
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Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | ""If trolling were legalized up here I always thought that a line limit, like 1 per angler - maximum of 4 lines per boat would be in order. "
They'd have to do that statewide......Lake Mich trollers would go ballisitc."
Why would this have to effect the Lake Mich(or Superior) trollers when they operate under specific regs and licenses for the Great Lakes?? It wouldnt!!! |
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| Trolling isn't fishing----I have trolled in Canada a couple times --and we caught some fish---If I had to troll to catch a Musky I would fish for something else. I refuse to troll now that I have done it and see what it is all about. Not even close to being the same as catching a fish casting--or a figure 8 strike, or topwater strike, or Night fishing. Come on--Trollers are not fishemen. No respect given to trollers from me or my fellow Musky fishermen. maybe we are old fashioned but in our Club--If you have to go and troll to catch a Musky--JUST QUIT. I WANT TO SAY THAT AS ROW TROLLING GOES----That is what we still consider fishing---Takes a special angler to Row Troll up a Musky----I SAY ROW TROLL AWAY !!! TRADITION is what it's all about. |
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Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | esox1,
So does you and your club feel the same about sucker fishing?
Edited by castmaster 9/27/2008 12:46 PM
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "Why would this have to effect the Lake Mich(or Superior) trollers when they operate under specific regs and licenses for the Great Lakes??"
Because the rest of the state is 3 lines per angler. If you go to 1 line per person up north only you'll end up with an enforcement nightmare bigger than the no troll currently is. If you have a lines per angler througout the state it realy should be consistant throughout the state. |
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