|
|
Posts: 8865
| According to Tony, it was caught by a non muskie angler, and kept for food. Most of us here have the luxury of being able to view fishing as a sport. Easy to forget that in other places fishing is for real -- its how people put food on the table. |
|
| |
|
| Here we go, lets try to justify people eating muskies.. Directly or indirectly every single time you go fishing you spend at least $10 in either gas, boat, boat insurance, rods, bait, etc, etc, etc.. $10 will buy you one big hunk of salmon if your that hungry, other fish is far less expensive. In my freezer I have a 2.17 lb piece of salmon fo $12.
If some old guy wanted to keep a musky and eat it, I guess the law says you can do it, fine.. Lets not try to justify that someone who has enough money to go out fishing can not afford to put food on the table, last time I checked gas it at least $3.00 per gallon for both the boat and tow vehicle.. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 374
Location: Bemidji | It is my understanding that alot of the "meathunters" fish from shore on the Cave. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 126
| hey guest,
I'm not defending the guy or condoning him either one. I'm simply saying that it was a completely legal fish. This conversation seems to take place on here several times a year. You have the hard core guys who say "you can't keep that fish, it's mine, I paid for it". Hey guess what he bought his license and such just as everyone else did. Do I like the fact that I see a few big fish taken every year??? NO, but it happens and there isn't a thing we can do about it. For some of these old guys it is a way of life, it is how they were raised, deal with it, it is not going to change. It's not going to help to bitch about it, they don't care.
I've never kept a fish and don't plan to so don't try to throw me into the meathunter category. I'm just simply stating facts. It's not just a cave run thing either it happens everywhere from ky to wi, mn, and canada.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 135
| I personally fish the cave about 30 days a year and I almost never see folks fishing from shore. I'm sure that they do, more in the summer, but how many musky are they going to catch and then eat, assuming they can even land them with the zebco and bobber with 8lb test? Never have seen someone targeting musky from shore specifically. And if they do, it's legal, so anyone hating that needs to contact the KY DNR I guess.
Also, Guest, no one here is trying to justify someone eating musky, they don't have to. The law is the law and just because they don't subscribe to our belief system doesn't mean that they're wrong. The economics of it make no difference. No need to justify it, it's legal. And beating a dead horse.
Also, you might try logging in or joining if you want to contribute to the conversation and be taken seriously. Might also try spell check. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8865
| Guest - 3/20/2008 5:30 PM
Here we go, lets try to justify people eating muskies.. Directly or indirectly every single time you go fishing you spend at least $10 in either gas, boat, boat insurance, rods, bait, etc, etc, etc.. $10 will buy you one big hunk of salmon if your that hungry, other fish is far less expensive. In my freezer I have a 2.17 lb piece of salmon fo $12.
If some old guy wanted to keep a musky and eat it, I guess the law says you can do it, fine.. Lets not try to justify that someone who has enough money to go out fishing can not afford to put food on the table, last time I checked gas it at least $3.00 per gallon for both the boat and tow vehicle..
How do you know what this guy can afford? My post wasn't about what WE spend on our HOBBY buying expensive trucks, $50,000 Rangers, thousands of dollars in gear, etc. so we can fish for FUN. Do you have any idea how lucky you are to be able to fish for fun? That guy might very well have needed to harvest that fish, LEGALLY no less, so his family could eat this week. (which happens to be an accepted practice everywhere but muskie fishing circles and PETA) Are you seriously going to come on here and tell us all that that isn't ok? There are a lot of people out there whose next meal depends on whether they catch fish or shoot an animal today. Luckily I'm not one of them, and I hope to never be. But if that day comes when I have a choice between eating a muskie and not eating at all? I'm eating it. And God help the person who tries to tell me I shouldn't! |
|
| |
|
| "Also, you might try logging in or joining if you want to contribute to the conversation and be taken seriously. Might also try spell check?"
Not allowed too, I am a catch and release advocate and because of my "extreme" opinions, I am not longer allowed on this website under my real name, which is Josh Clymer, [email protected], feel free to email me.
Spell check? Well I do have a Master degree in Engineering, so yes spelling is not my strong point, want to try some calculus problems??
"There are a lot of people out there whose next meal depends on whether they catch fish or shoot an animal today"
My job has taken me to Mexico where this is the case, I rarely see this type of poverty in the US. However if you are this poverty stricken, maybe try a new fish that one can easily catch. I have a little experience with muskies, and guess what; you do not catch them day after day. If you are fishing with a bobber, you had to buy bait, gas money to go fishing, fishing license, etc. Salmon cost $5.00 per pound, almost the cost of gas per gallon.
If this guy wanted to keep the fish, he did nothing illegal, however if anyone tries to justify it that he needed to kill it to survive, well than you fall into the same category as the people that claim they "had" to kill a fish because it was hooked so bad, only heard that excuse over 10 times this year. How about we quit trying to make excuses for everyone and be honest. It was a big fish and this guy is going to enjoy having it hang on his wall. I don't agree with it, but it was his "legal right."
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | I have to agree with Josh, if the guy has money to fish for muskies, he's got enough money to feed himself, even if it means cutting out some luxuries. No need to keep one for 'food'. I also consider myself a strict C&R advocate and really dont condone keeping a fish, period. I dont care if it is a state record, world record or any sort of record. It didnt get to become record size by people keeping it, so be happy you caught it and respect the fish enough to put it back. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 135
| I'd never keep a fish unless it was dead, and I work very hard to see that they don't die because of my actions, but you know what, we can berate the people who keep the occasional musky for food, but unless the DNR in each state changes the law, it's legal, period. Wish no one would ever keep them, and I personally wouldn't care to eat one, but I really wouldn't tell someone that they shouldn't just as I don't stand for people pushing their politics or religion on me. It's frankly none of your or my GD business what they do with a legal fish that they catch legally. If you've got a bone to pick, it's with the state. Lobby for larger minimum sizes, or total C&R, or death and humiliation for the poor slob that believes that he'd rather eat what he catches than eat something that came from 1800 miles away and was caught 3 weeks ago. Whatever you want, go for it and sit on their doorstep until they give in, go to meetings, carry signs and sing songs, but that's what is needed, not bitching on message boards to folks who agree with you but mix in a dose of reality and common sense. But I'll tell you what, Josh, next time I see the old feller at Cave Run trolling, I'll stop him for you and point out to him that he's better of using his gas to drive to the grocery and buy a salmon filet, then he'll have the rest of the afternoon to sit at home and watch gameshows. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'Not allowed too, I am a catch and release advocate and because of my "extreme" opinions, I am not longer allowed on this website under my real name, which is Josh Clymer, [email protected], feel free to email me.'
That's not true, Mr. Clymer. If you want to re-register and post you are more than welcome to do so if you can stick to the posting permissions here. If you don't wish to do that, then you can and always have been able to post as a guest, and you can always post using your name that way, too. Your advocacy towards C&R has never been a problem, the difficulty has always been in the 'delivery' of the message.
Pointer, what would you do as the Fisheries Biologist for the Cave to Manage that fishery? They raise the fry in hatchery and all are from a local source, and there's no NR. The forage there can be cyclical, and that population can and sometimes does crash. The average lifespan of the Muskies on the Cave, according to the biologists there, is a little over 10 years. The system is currently managed as a 'put and take' and the biologist told me if a proposed 40" limit was put into place, yearly stocking would cease or be severely curtailed, which would cause year class vacancies and interruptions of availability of the excellent year class distribution present at this time. He also said distribution of adult fish throughout all year classes was excellent and to expectations, all the way to the upper confidence. One more thing, the system is managed with the expectation of a level of harvest; in other words a level of expected harvest is part and parcel to the management program.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | I'm not disagreing with the way it's set up from a management standpoint. Its a put and take and harvest is expected. Nothing management can really do about it if they want to sustain their fishery. I'm just saying from my personal view point that there is reason to keep one. People are always going to keep fish, that is their choice as liscence holders. It is my choice to be strictly C&R. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Tony,
Thanks for the report, and great response. I, for one, would love to see a pic of that pig if one turns up. Please continue to keep us in the loop as to what is happening down there, as some of us are still chasing pike/panfish under 3' of ice and now more snow, are a bit fed up with it, and live for any report that communicates spring has sprung somewhere....
Jason Schillinger
Edited by Reef Hawg 3/21/2008 11:50 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There's a difference between 'nothing management can do about it' and actually managing FOR harvest, isn't there? I'm not being argumentative, I'm asking a question...
The reason I visited the Fisheries folks at the Cave was two fold; one to get that biologist's opinion on the 'it's the fish' battle that was raging here, and two to see what their take on a 40" size limit proposal on the Cave was.
So here we have it, a very healthy fishery managed for an expected and even encouraged level of harvest, clashing with a set of principles from some folks who would publicly condemn anyone who harvests a fish there. I get raked over the coals pretty often by folks who claim to know my personal CPR ethics based upon a post like this one...which is horse hockey. I'm just trying to point out that some personal angling ethics simply don't mesh well with reality when one tries to apply them universally. This is part of what most fisheries scientists tell me is one of the most difficult things to deal with in the real world of managing fisheries for all users, because there are so #*^@ed many 'realities based solely on perspective' out there.
I second Jason's post above... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | sworrall - 3/21/2008 11:46 PM
I'm just trying to point out that some personal angling ethics simply don't mesh well with reality when one tries to apply them universally. This is part of what most fisheries scientists tell me is one of the most difficult things to deal with in the real world of managing fisheries for all users, because there are so #*^@ed many 'realities based solely on perspective' out there.
I second Jason's post above...
Right....its something I have to deal with as well. And yes you can manage for harvest 'Put-Take' fishery. DNR puts them in, anglers take them out. I dont know a whole lot about the Cave, about all I know is its in Kentucky. Would I have liked to see that big fish released, you bet. But it is clear that something must be working down there if a 42 lber was caught. I also would love to see pictures. Heck I'd even be up for seeing the fillets off that thing if they were taken off, got to be like big salmon fillets! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Guy's chill out !!!
Here's whats happining Now on Cave Run.... I've been here for the last few days hunting thiis magnificent fish.. and from the reports that I have been hearing there are a few of the SAME GYYS Keeping every fish that they catch (over 30") for food !!
This just isn't right ! From what I've heard over 200 lbs. of muskie have been taken out of the beautiful lake in the last week........
Can anyone justify eating 200 lbs of ANY kind of fish ???
Do these guys need to be educated on the benifites of C & R or should I just shrug my shoulders and say ..............OH WELL..........
I have a bad feeling about this.
Jerome |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Stop by the local DNR and talk this over with them. It'll only take a few minutes, and they were very willing to talk when I was there.
A pretty significant harvest level has been the way of things there for a very long time.
In order to get a better perspective of how that water in managed, I'd suggest you talk to Tony and Crash and Justin and other guides down that way as well, and ask them what they have seen. There's been quite a few threads about this over the last few years, actually. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Steve, Your right about taking fish as being a way of life down here, but the main guides are also sick about what a "FEW" guys are doing here......
Some Really nice Bigg fish are being harvested here and I think its also due to the lack of C&R education.... Perhaps the LOCAL Muskies Inc. Chapter needs to be more aggressive ???????
I've talked to the "Guides" and they are pissssed also
Still this is a very nice managed fishery, except for size limit......
The guys taking fish out of the lake are doing it on a DAILY basis, this is not just a fluke catch....... they are after any muskie that is legal.
Jerome |
|
| |
|
Posts: 518
Location: Cave Run Lake KY. | The local Bass fishing clubs do their best to discourage muskie fishing , they take down the regulations at all the boat launches, and the info that Daniel Boone muskies Inc. puts up. They hold bass fishing contest all summer long. Cave Run has some of the best bass fishing around any where. It is not uncommom to catch a 5lb. bass on a musky bait. Bass fisher's say that muskies eat their bass. crappie fishers blame the muskies for bad crappie fishing. I ask a local fisherman why the lights are allways out at the boat launches when we come in at night and he said that the bass fishermen shoot them out because the light chases the fish away ?? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Top H20,
Really, go talk with the fisheries mangers there. It's worth the time to gain an understanding what the big picture is for them, the Cave, and the future of Muskie stocking there in a 100% 'put and take' fishery.
Chinwhiskers,
Hope the Spring has been treating you well! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 518
Location: Cave Run Lake KY. | Thanks Steve, Hope all can be with friends and family, this Easter week end. This has been another cold winter and spring this year. I had the highest heating bill this last Feb. since we moved down here from Brookfield 8 years ago. retired after working 32 year's with Evinrude Motors . They went bankrupt and closed their doors in Milwaukee, after my last day of work April 1.2000 (April fools day) when I left the building there were less then 20 workers left. I helped move the big machines that we worked on all those years. We bought a home 3 miles from Longbow Marina and 15 miles from Scott Creek Marina. I kept a slip at Longbow for 5 years the year's that I guided for Tony Grants Guide service. I then retierd from a life time of guiding full and part time and now just chase muskies year round. Back in the 60's we used to fish the Wi. River below the dell 's and caught so many Walleys that some fishermen from Ill. ask if I might take them fishing for a small fee and that got me started in the guideing service. Had a Summer home on Spider Lake for 10 years and than a trailer at Indian Trail for about 20 years . Wisconsin has been very good to me. Take Care Marv. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 518
Location: Cave Run Lake KY. | ( Indian Trail ) on the Chippewa Flowage Wisc. for those not in the know |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Thanks Marv, good to hear things are well. Keep those muskies duckin'! I'm off t Arkansas this coming weekend. |
|
| |
|
| Thanks for the info tony Cave is a diffrent world not many years back there limit was 5 musky a day and I think it had to be somewhere in the mid 20s to keep . There were guides getting limits every day and there were still fish . Times change but not so much down there . If someone if fishing for meat how many muskies can they possible get in a year ? If you are a meat fisherman you will starve fishing only for musky. You have to take the good with the bad I would guess if this guy is a meat fisher he will be off the water and full for a few weeks with a fish of that size. I am getting very tired of the treads that go down this road. If you all keep talking this dead fish stuff you are going to push people away from posting Then what will you have . Anyway I will be down next week Cant wait Nick C |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1237
Location: South Portsmouth, KY | Heres an article on a illegal harvesting incident on the cave back in 2004.
SOME WANT VIOLATORS TO PAY RESTITUTION FOR SPORT FISH'S VALUE
By Art Lander Jr.
HERALD-LEADER OUTDOORS WRITER
A recent case in which three men were fined for illegally snagging muskies in Cave Run Lake has wildlife officials considering some regulation changes.
"We need to rethink the way the regulation is written, and make the penalities more severe," said Benjy Kinman, director of fisheries for the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources.
Kinman said at issue is how to make people convicted of illegal snagging pay restitution based on the sport value of the fish.
Jeremy Cornett, 21, of Jeffersonville in Montgomery County; Stephen Brewer, 20, of Denniston in Menifee County; and Joshua Lucas, 19, of Frenchburg in Menifee County paid a small fine plus court costs for illegally snagging the muskies in the headwaters of Beaver Creek on Cave Run Lake in April, 2004.
"We've had restitution fees on deer and wild turkey for years," said Col. David Casey, of the department's law-enforcement division. "But we've never had any on fish."
Kentucky Wildlife and Boating Officer Randy Joseph observed the three men as they illegally snagged the fish in a shallow tributary, Kinman said.
Joseph and officer Shane Ratliff seized more than 20 illegally snagged muskies that ranged in length from 32 to 49 inches.
Kinman said he's not aware of another snagging case of this magnitude in Kentucky.
A 40-inch muskie, which weighs about 20 pounds, is considered a trophy fish in the department's Trophy Fish/Master Angler program.
"Muskie fishing represents a significant economic impact to the local economy," said Kinman.
Cave Run Lake, one of the top 10 muskie lakes in the country, is an annual stop on the Professional Muskie Tournament Trail (PMTT).
"Anglers travel a long way to come and fish for these trophy fish," said Kinman.
A department spokesman said the economic value of muskie fishing trips on Cave Run Lake reached nearly a half-million dollars in 2003, and that the typical muskie angler on Cave Run Lake spends about $54.38 per trip.
Like salmon, river-run muskies travel into very shallow streams to spawn, making them vulnerable to snagging and gigging.
"(Tips from the public) are the best defense against this kind of behavior," Casey said. "Resource violations are often difficult to detect because people go to great effort to conceal their activities. Assistance from the public is critical to catch these violators."
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 143
Location: Kentucky | I would say that the Cave is the same as all the other lake's in the U.S. We have our fair share of bass guy's that accidentally or on purpose kill some Muskie ever year, just as you all have the walleye guy's that kill some. Do the majority of angler's? NO. We have the people who love the taste of the slimy creators if they can catch one. Just as you all have the spearing in alot of places. Then we have Bub the inbreed guy who doesn't know any better, just as you all have the guy who has fell off the snowmobile one to many times. LOL!  It's going to happen, where ever your at. Just look at this pic of my buddy J.W. on Friday. This dam dog came out of nowhere and ate his fish!!!! cpr Chris
(Jerry 30 incher 03-21-082.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 Jerry 30 incher 03-21-082.jpg (35KB - 147 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
| I grew up on Cave Run, up on the hill in Leatherwood. My family owned farms in middle of the lake before it was there. I was raised up to keep all the fish you catch never was tault anything about C&R. Got pics from the past where me and my brother, and another boy cault 2 48" and a 46" in one day. Regret to say we kept all three and eat them and embarassed about it. In last few years after reading lots of info on musky fishing I realize how important C&R is to me. Now if I cault a 80lb musky would not keep it, get replica and take pics. Wouldnt even think about keeping any musky. Do I still keep fish yes love to keep bluegills and redears. Ihave no controls over others, some people just dont know any better and im one of them that didnt know any better, ashamed that I use to keep and eat musky, that sadens me. Thanks
|
|
| |
|
| Heard a rumor the guy caught it on a bluegill he was reeling in. I've not seen pics or heard first hand info on the subject. Needless to say, until I hear the details from the guy who caught it , everything else is just conjecture. You guys are missing the point. Instead of arguing over hearsay and playing on the computer, get off your butt and get down here. We've caught and lost a few, watched the guides pop at least a dozen nice fish in front of us this week. It's a hot bite right now regardless of how many harvested fish. I think you guys have let cabin fever set in a bit, lol. |
|
| |
|
| Down in the Ky. fisheries.. it is common to catch and eat down there... I was introduced to the killing fields on Green River impoundment by friend and guide Bill Jorboe.. want to see the hair on his neck stand up about that!! Oh well... It IS a put and take fishery down there... Don't Condem..... try EDUCATE!!! That ends with ATE!!??.. We now still have the best fishery for skiballs, so lets all enjoy it....Don't Break the TOY!! Old Goat Thorne's Pro Staff |
|
| |
|
| I wont criticize anyone that acts within the law harvesting any fish. Who cares about why or why not it was kept. The fishery down there is stocked and is getting better and better every year it seems regardless of the fish that are harvested. If a fisherman buys a license and wants to keep every legal fish that they catch it is their right to do so. I personally practice cpr and will continue to. However I do not believe that every fish that i catch lives on to be caught another day. It has been proven that a percentage of fish that are caught die from the experience. We as musky fisherman do everything that is in our power to try and keep every fish that we catch alive but the truth is that is simply doesnt happen and i think that most of us know this. As for those that criticize people for keeping a fish because they are strictly of the catch and release opinion you had better stop fishing because i guarantee that some of the fish that you have caught are as dead as the fish in question simply because of the stress that you put them through even though you put them back. There is no question that catch and release helps a fishery because many of the fish live...but not all of them no matter how hard we try. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 170
Location: Chicagoland | Well if your gonna keep such a beautiful fish that may hold record breaking capabilities, you might as well get it officially weighed just in case. JMHO |
|
| |
