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Location: Kodiak, AK | muskydeceiver - 2/28/2008 7:03 AM
I know smaller flies will catch pike and musky, but dangit, I like to fish tandem 6/0's with double size five spinner blades and a 6" grub tail!
Jeff
Isn't that a bucktail???? 
Based on, yes. But not exactly. Not as much metal, no treble hooks, no barbs. I'll get some pics, but here's a couple of other flies I use along those lines. I dunno, you can still tell they're "flies."
Jeff
Edited by esoxfly 2/28/2008 12:52 PM
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| What do you guys do for leaders?? |
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Location: Kodiak, AK | I run level 3'-6' of 40# mono for my leader and have been running braided steel bite tippet, but am going to flouro this year. I like to keep the whole thing short enough that my fly line stays outside the rod tip as the fish is boatside in the event of a last ditch run there's nothing to hang up.
Jeff |
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| I run pretty much the same rig for leaders, depends on the flies I'm heaving. Only thing different, is that I use Tyger. I tried fluorocarbon, for tarpon bite tippets, and I just didn't like it. |
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Location: Kodiak, AK | Whoolligan - 2/28/2008 5:27 PM
I run pretty much the same rig for leaders, depends on the flies I'm heaving. Only thing different, is that I use Tyger. I tried fluorocarbon, for tarpon bite tippets, and I just didn't like it.
I tried the Tyger. It's nice stuff, but it's almost too limp for me. I use Cortland Toothy Critter. Still knotable, but has more backbone.
I'm just giving FC a shot this year after seeing so much of it being used. I've been a wire guy since I can remember. Why didn't you like it?
Jeff
Edited by esoxfly 2/28/2008 7:41 PM
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| Too stiff, and too hard to tie with relative ease on a change.
The other thing, is that tying it in as a bite tippet, it's almost impossible to tie in as a Bimini. |
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Location: Kodiak, AK | Whoolligan - 2/29/2008 9:07 AM
Too stiff, and too hard to tie with relative ease on a change.
The other thing, is that tying it in as a bite tippet, it's almost impossible to tie in as a Bimini.
Well that might just about wrap that one up for me. I live off of Biminis, and I was wondering how it'd fare with them. If 80# FC won't take a Bimini, I'll just stick with the steel. |
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| Yeah, it's a bugger for it. Think about tying a bimini with 150# hard mono, and you've got about the same as 80# Fluoro. |
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| Thought I would post this. I thought it turned out well. That is a 9" ernie below the fly. This is the BP design that Bill Sherer ties. Supposed to dive anywhere from 2-10" with the plastic lip. Anyone use these before? The hard water prevents me from testing this out no matter how bad I want to.
Edit: I added a rattle in the body of this one as well!
Edited by muskydeceiver 3/10/2008 3:11 PM
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Location: Kodiak, AK | Did you tie that? I like the perch stripes.
I'm at work right now (workin' hard), but I'll post some fly pics tonight when I get home.
Jeff |
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| Yes, I tied that one. The tail is Puglisi fibre and it takes marker very well. I have tied some other streamers with this material and they turned out well. The middle is all marabou and the head is foam colored with marker.
I found some open water on a local lake and tried out some of my winter experiments. This one didn't wiggle as much as I hoped. I think I might have had too much terminal tackle in front of it. I am going to try tying directly to the leader and see if that helps.
Post some flies when you get a chance. Always like to see other people's work. |
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Location: Kodiak, AK | Sweet. I've always liked EP fibres. I've tied alot with rabbit, but made the switch to marabou this year for my heavy hitters. I still use rabbit on smaller flies, but I can throw alot more bulk for the same or less weight as with rabbit.
I'll have some flies posted for you in a few hours....provided the helos come back tonight in working order.
Jeff |
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Posts: 65
Location: De Pere Wisconsin | I have fished with the BP flies with the lips. They catch a whole lot of wind in my opinion. that little lip is like an airplane wing(but it doesn't help it fly). Huge muddlers and Dahlberg Divers are enough to get you bit. I personally think that if you want to throw what amounts to radically oversized flies you might as well pick up the conventional gear at that point. The appeal to me to throwing flies is that they are a totally different look than what the muskies are seeing especially on heavily pressured spots/lakes and are especially useful when they(fish) are up shallow as that is where the fly rod is deadly.... great fun for sure!
http://www.haywardflyfishingcompany.com/ for Hayward area they guide the rivers up there and I have heard very good things.
http://www.tightlinesflyshop.com/ in DePere. they have some footage on their you tube site you can link too of muskies on the fly.
I see flies and tying gear out and about at Eagle Sports in Eagle River as well and the Complete Guide to Musky Hunting by Heiting and Saric has a chapter on fly fishing with the owner of Eagle Sports. |
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| I have never liked the way marabou looked in the water. I don't know.....it doesn't look like it moves much. I used it on this one to try and keep the bulk down and still give the fly a "tube" look to make it look like a perch. How do you get your length on a marabou fly?
This is the first time I have messed with EP and it is really cool stuff. Really like the way it is hydophobic and I think it looks really good in the water.
DavidD.......what do you use for flies then if you don't go oversized? Just muddlers and Dahlberg's? How big? The whole different look for the fish is why I wanted to try fly-fishing this year. I thought the movement of a large fly might help.
Edited by muskydeceiver 3/11/2008 10:35 PM
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Location: Kodiak, AK | davidd - 3/11/2008 8:30 PM
I personally think that if you want to throw what amounts to radically oversized flies you might as well pick up the conventional gear at that point.
For me, the large flies are a big part of the appeal. I enjoy the creativity that super large flies allow me. Yeah, I can catch pike and muskie on a 2/0 or 3/0, but I enjoy fishing, and just as much, tying my larger flies. I got started with super large flies while I was stationed in Kodiak, and flyfished for halibut. I suppose I could catch a 'but on a 3/0, but it's a big ocean, and they're big fish and I wanted to catch their attention. So I got into spinner blades, rattles and the such. It got more and more fun to tie and experiment with very, very large flies, and I've not stopped since.
Tying flies, large, small or in between is not a requisite for being a committed flyfisherman, but I think that the attention, energy and "love" one puts into their flies, gear and technique says alot about their love of the fishing itself. Again, not a requisite, but for me, my pike and muskie fishing starts months before I ever get in a boat when I take so much enjoyment from dreaming up and tying the flies I use. I think about new fly patterns while driving to work, taking a shower, eating dinner or splitting wood. Like I said, I enjoy the flies themselves almost as much as I enjoy fishing itself.
Halibut on a fly; note large fly in it's mouth.
Edited by esoxfly 3/12/2008 6:21 AM
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | muskydeceiver - 3/11/2008 8:30 PM
I have never liked the way marabou looked in the water. I don't know.....it doesn't look like it moves much. I used it on this one to try and keep the bulk down and still give the fly a "tube" look to make it look like a perch. How do you get your length on a marabou fly?
I know I have to let marabou "breathe" for it to look right to me. It's used extensively in steelhead flies on the swing, not the strip. On a swing or drift, it breathes and pulsates like a champ. I know that fished on a strip, I have to "strip-strip-P A U S E..." If I strip too fast and don't let it settle a bit, it does just all lay down and not do much. If I want a faster retrieve with little or no pause, I'll use flies like what I have posted above with splayed hackle that will react more favorably to water, and is more resilient against a steady, constant strip. Yak hair works well too, and holds it's form well on a sustained strip with little or no pause.
As for length with marabou, or most any of my flies, I use tandem hooks. Sometimes up to three of them.
These are tandem 5/0 34007's and tandem 4/0 Gamakatsu Finnesse wide gaps.
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Location: Kodiak, AK | Here's a big tandem in progress. I use 60 lb steel, one hook up, one down.
Most of my large tandem marabous don't have blades, but I put one on this one to see see how it casts and how it fishes.
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Location: Kodiak, AK | The fly above has a size 3 blade, but I'll go up to a six sometimes. 3, 4 and 5 cast well for me. A six will cast, but I'm not going to win any distance competitions on them; not that you need to muskie fishing.
This is a single 7/0. And someone commented earlier in this thread, "isn't that a bucktail?" Well no. Inspired by yes. No treble hooks, not as much hardware, "tied" like a fly, weight like a fly, meant to cast like a fly (carried by fly line, rather than the line being carried by the fly.)
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Location: Kodiak, AK | And yes, I tie in colors other than black and blue! But black and blue work best for photos, as the colors don't wash out as badly under the close up flash.
Edited by esoxfly 3/12/2008 6:53 AM
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| RE: Hayward Flyfishing company.
Larry and Wendy are SUPER guides, and really good people. There are fewer that are better with a rod, and more knowledgeable of the areas fly fishing. They focus primarily on floating the Namekagon, and do really well there. Super guides, super knowledge, great little shop, with TONS of experience behind it. |
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| Cool stuff esox. How far can you cast those larger flies? This is my second year casting a fly rod and I can get to about 40-50 feet as a limit on the big stuff. I am still working on my double haul. Why do you say you don't need distance when fly fishing muskie?
What do you use for the plastic tail on the fly?
Edited by muskydeceiver 3/12/2008 9:51 AM
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| Holy smokes! Those flies are insane. I have never seen anything like that! You must have arms like Schwarzenegger! Can you post pics of muskies caught on the fly??? |
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Location: Kodiak, AK | muskydeceiver - 3/12/2008 7:50 AM
Cool stuff esox. How far can you cast those larger flies? This is my second year casting a fly rod and I can get to about 40-50 feet as a limit on the big stuff. I am still working on my double haul. Why do you say you don't need distance when fly fishing muskie?
What do you use for the plastic tail on the fly?
By "distance" I mean something like 90' and shooting the whole fly line down to the backing. I'll shoot a Teeny 400 or 550 as far as it'll go while fishing salmon off shore. This allows me a longer retrieve in a big ocean to cover more water. Also allows the fly to sink (courtesy the line) 30'-40' so I can start my retrieve at the right depth. Same as with a spey cast for steelhead. You'll shoot, I dunno, 50' or 60' (I've never counted or measured) of running line, along with a 40' Skagit head for your swing.
I don't know how far I can cast them. Again, I've never measured or really thought about it. I'll shoot enought that I like to use a stripping basket (plastic trash can) to keep my fly line in order in the boat and not have a good shot line get tangled under foot. Get that double haul down. I double haul just as a matter of fact. Line speed is your friend. Also, if you haven't read one of the many casting instruction books or articles by Lefty Kreh or Ed Jaworski, you're holding yourself back.
The tails are just regular rubber grubs with the bodies cut off. It is tough to find unscented grubs, but a store in town has them. The skirt in the one pic is a squid skirt use for trolling for salmon.
Jeff |
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Location: Kodiak, AK | esox50 - 3/12/2008 8:34 AM
Holy smokes! You must have arms like Schwarzenegger! Can you post pics of muskies caught on the fly???
Fly casting is all physics and mechanical advantage. If you're muscling a cast, you're just killing yourself.
I'm going to make an admission....I'm new to muskie. I'm a pike guy through and through though. I fish alone 99% of the time, so my good hero pics are few and far between. This is a decent fish, but it's the only time in the last five years I've fished with anyone, AND had a fish in the boat. This pic is probably five years old, and it's the most recent pic of a fish in the boat that I have; and it's a film picture that I scanned to put on the computer, thus the crappy quality.
Edited by esoxfly 3/12/2008 12:49 PM
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| I'd have to agree with the most of it, though I find casting distance is essential, second only to accuracy. If you can't push 65' of line through the guides, you are going to be having troubles with fish. That's a minimum. For my sinking lines, I run a 30' head, and a 100' running line. Rarely do I have more than about 15'-20' on the reel or in the basket. Heads make it incredibly easy, as opposed to a wf line. They load better, handle better, and once you become used to it, will almost always perform better.
That said, I throw a lot of wf lines when I am not fishing stillwater, (like floating the Namekagon) because accuracy is FAR more important that covering water.
Go out in your yard with some pie tins, and practice putting your flies on them at 30-40-50-60-70 feet. It becomes second nature. Then, do that with billfish flies, and you will be in like Flynn.
Edit:
Another thing that you will find is when fishing for 'ski as opposed to pike, you will want to absolutely RIP that fly sometimes, I take as much as 5' on line as fast as I can. Just ripping it. When you get a hot fish on, and they are waking behind your biat, get to rippin, it's JUST like a bait and switch for billfish. (an absolute riot, too.) I had a 36" fish last year that acted like he was a world record coming in on a billfish pattern. He couldn't get on it fst enough, and I couldn't move it away any faster. The water was churning and boiling till about 10' from me and he ate, then went haywire.
Wait till you nail your first muskie on the fly, you'll NEVER go back to fishing pike on the fly.
Edited by Whoolligan 3/12/2008 1:03 PM
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Location: Kodiak, AK | Why are 100' casts needed? I agree in the use of heads, and I use a couple of billfish lines in my esox fishing, so I'm in total agreement about big lines. I like heavier lines for the sake of moving flies this large, rather than shooting distance. Are you just covering more water on each retrieve? I've never thought to myself pike fishing, "wow, I wish I had an extra twenty feet on that cast." I've never been left wanting to cover more water or get deeper, even in 15' of water.
Not debating with ya, just asking..... |
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| Two reasons. Covering more water, with less casting effort= more time your fly is in the water with less effort expended.
Second, it gives a following fish more opportunity, and you more opportunity to do more with it, provided you aren't running a 700grain sink. It give you that chance to really vary your retrieve to get that fish to commit. It also gives you the chance to reach where you might not otherwise be able to. Your mileage may vary, in what you choose to practice, and in how you fish. |
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Location: Kodiak, AK | Fair 'nuff. I see where you're coming from. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating casting short, but like I said, I've never wished I could shoot the last 10' of line off the reel. I've only had but a handfull of long follows to the boat. The vast majority of my fish have hit at distance in the first half of the retrieve.
And I plan to get more into musky this summer when I transfer back to Michigan. The CG is sending me back to my first unit, which happens to sit on the shores of Lake St. Clair! I won't be able to help but be a musky guy then.
Jeff |
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Location: De Pere Wisconsin | I didn't mean to say that fishing with large flies is silly or anything like that. I generally prefer an 8 weight and water that would be more likely to get classified as "action" as I would be in serious trouble with a larger fish if I was lucky enough to tangle with one on an 8 weight . I was at one time an exclusive fly fisherman but became so enthralled with muskies that the whole culture of them kinda took over and I crossed over to the "dark side" as many fly guys tend of think of "gear" fisherman...let alone live bait (gasp!!  Now I fish however I want and it is cool. I love how guys like Dahlberg and Flip Pallot will toss flies and the moment the conditions warrant conventional gear they grab it and fish - no apologies. That is very appealing to me to not be constrained by any pre-conceived notion of what is acceptable or appropriate .
The big flies you guys are tying are really nice looking in those bigger sizes. Halibut on the fly! That is very cool! |
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| Flip, and Jose, are pretty much two of my heroes.
I do 95% of my musky fishing with an 8, and have popped fish up to 48" on 8wt with absolutely no problem. Whatever works for you, and you feel comfortable with, I guess, is the motto.
USCG, and you have time to fish? Sheesh, what's wrong with THAT picture. :P They need to keep you busier!! I'm sure once you get back to station, you'll be running the muskies ragged. Hope you have fun at it, too.
Lastly, I fish with what I want, when I want. I tend, now, to fish traditional gear, because your odds are so much better. That, and there's just something about working a jerk bait that is rhythmic and soothing. |
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