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| I'm gonna disagee with EA, his slow down zones are wrong, speed up thru the upward motions and let the fish catch the bait on the turns after the speed up. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | if the bait disappears and you can't feel anything ... she ate the bait ... if you don't pin it to her ears you have a chance of seeing the bait again while the fish swims away ... lol
and on a 45 - 50 pounder if you miss a fish on a figure eight it could really make you say words you know are not appropriate here ... at least from what i saw ... lol |
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Posts: 8773
| Yo go ahead and do 'em backwards, then dawger. Let me know how you feel at the end of the day trying to speed up going away from the boat 
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| speed up on the turns going up and out away from the boat, then let the fish catch and eat. trust me it works.
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Posts: 1636
| If you think there is some special formula you should follow every single time....well, good luck dawger  Like so many people have said before, try and read the fish. If they all wanted the same presentation, it would be too easy. |
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| EA, when is that show airing? The show with my dad and I aired last weekend, it's so cool to watch and how those memories are brought back along with it. Can't wait till I get back up there again this August! |
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Posts: 59
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | forgot to login, last post was me.... |
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | EA....I have to agree with dawger...
in your pic where you have the "zone" that is where I am going out away from the boat....bait is at its deepest near the boat...I am going out towards the outside turn....I am adding major speed and raising it in the water column at this point. 90% of the fish will eat on that outside turn...because of speed and depth change.
If I was going to slow down...it will be as I come to the apex of that outside turn....speed will get them jazzed heading out away from the boat...a quick slow down at the apex away from the boat just under the surface will get you most of your strikes....
Cory |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | I also agree with Dawger and disagree with EA....but what do I know.....I probably only catch about 100 fish per year on the 8!!! LOL
DO NOT SLOW DOWN on the turns....that is the HOT spot, the SWEET spot...MAKE THAT FISH EAT.....
Also, I wouldn't recommend slowing down.....you want your bait to be going at least as fast as it was during the retrieve, not slower |
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| that wacky bulldawger knows his stuff!
keep that bait moving on the turns like others have said...
each fish IS different and it isn't easy but when you do it enough they almost do become predictable where you WILL get them to eat...
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Very true B-Rad...
Each fish is different, but after enough experience doing it, you should be able to tell if....the fish is simply going to follow and not eat...follow around 1 time then smoke it...smoke it on the first turn....follow around 5+ times then eat, etc.....
They are definately very predictable. |
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| at the Chicago show, in one of the seminars (i forget by who) he showed video where he got a fish to eat boatside by quickly moving the bucktail back and forth in a straight line. no big, wide turns. no depth changes. just ripping the bait quickly back and forth just below the surface side-to-side in a straight line maybe 3 feet long.
he suggested that the speed and commotion it was causing kept the fish hot, and you could see it circling around trying to set up on the bait before it finally ate.
i can't see myself trying that every time vs a standard figure-8, but it does show that sometimes a really hot fish just wants to grab the lure regardless of what you do as long as you don't stop it.
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| oh yah, there are those "suicidal" fish that no matter what you do wrong will eat, like say hooking them THREE times on the 8 and have them come back and eat it again... but in most cases they aren't suicidal and can become predictable how and where they eat....
reading the fishes mood and having 100's of fig 8 experiences will hone your skills more than reading a "how to" on the net...even by the best.... |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | bn - 2/8/2008 7:44 AM
reading the fishes mood and having 100's of fig 8 experiences will hone your skills more than reading a "how to" on the net...even by the best....
But Brad, if we all had to wait til we had 100s of figure 8 experiences before our skills were honed enough to be qualified to answer a post on a message board, there would only be about 4 people posting here.
Personally, I find them to be a waste of time (I realize that I am in a minority in that regard and have learned to live with it just fine).
S. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Moving your bait back and fourth....is a HUGE NO NO....I would never suggest it. And yes, there are fish that no matter what you do, you are going to catch it...but that is about 1 in 50.
And if you are finding that a figure 8 is a waste of time....you are doing it wrong.
Edited by MikeHulbert 2/8/2008 9:00 AM
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| And if you are finding that a figure 8 is a waste of time....you are doing it wrong.
he's fishing exclusively for tigers out West, Mike...they don't follow very much, and they tend to dart away near the boat more like pike.
i've seen him figure 8 for trues, and he does just fine.
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | MikeHulbert - 2/8/2008 7:58 AM
And if you are finding that a figure 8 is a waste of time....you are doing it wrong.
That may very well be, but I've been fishing these cursed tigers for about 10 years now. I have exactly 6 on the first turn of the L, and one on the 8. If I have to get 100 of them to eat on the 8 before I can consider myself proficient, I'll be pushing daisies before I get my 4th one...I'll spend the rest of my time casting I think.
S. |
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Cory has it nailed if anyplace to slow down entering the outside turn just as you add that burst of speed to make the escape down the straight away. Some other things to take into consideration is the bait being worked, I do some different things with dawgs, the bucktails.
Anyone remember Pearson strike while the Jackpot just sat there motionless.
I agree with you sorno tigers just don't follow and commit to much in the metro either. They will usually flash off, no succes on them in the 8's. It is either they eat of play a little mind game.
Troyz
PS It is all about the setup on your baits as you entering the corner. |
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Posts: 8773
| Zo, I'm not sure. Last time I talked to Travis, he was still going through all the footage from last year. He said Mickey got some really cool stuff, though. I can't wait to see it, espeically since my camera died and I only got a couple pictures the whole week!
Man its too bad they didn't stick around another day to get your big one on film, that would have been cool to see!
Oh well, maybe next year... |
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| having 100's of fig 8 experiences will hone your skills more than reading a "how to" on the net...even by the best...
true enough.
at the same time, reading about how to do something is a good place to start. discussions such as this one, or articles such as Cory's are helpful to get all of us thinking about how to do something right, so that we can then go out and practice it on the water.
if you never talk/write/think about it first, or if you think you've got it mastered, you might not try do something different/better once you're on the water.
I do some different things with dawgs, the bucktails.
such as...???
PS It is all about the setup on your baits as you entering the corner.
such as...???
come on now, Troy!
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | for what it's worth i focus on the angle i'm coming in at and wand a first move to keep the fish straight coming into the first turn (which would be at an angle to the boat so she doesn't have to make a short turn before the first big wide one) ... then come down and deeper and as bn and hulbert mention the first turn coming back up and around i'm trying to go at top speed expecting the fish's best time to take a shot is at that accelleration point coming out of the first turn while she's also moving back up ... the entry and speed with a long wide turn gives her body a chance to be in the position they love to eat .... where i've screwed up has been the visual of a big fish sucking the bait in and not noticing it disappearing soon enough ... also learned (yes, from b-rad, cochran and cal ritchie) that big ovals work best and are easiest with long rods ... but for sure to accellerate through those turns big-time. i figured in-boat lessons from those guys were worth taking to heart and they all know i've screwed some up but learned to pin a fish.
by the way ... got to see Cal Ritchie catch a fish boatside last year and it was awesome ... what a great lesson. he moved so quick like a cat and that turn was over before i knew it happened ... time for the net like right now!!!! ... learned quickly too that if you can't get a fish to eat at the boat on eagle you might as well stay home ... lol
the dawger, corey, mike are providing some good advice here for lots to benefit from yet it becomes an argument (you're allowed to delete that if you want) ... to me it's good of them to provide the counter from experience and it doesn't bother me at all.
who is this dawger guy anyway?! ... i wanna fish with him someday. bet i could steal an 8-fish from him too eh b-rad?
Edited by jonnysled 2/8/2008 10:47 AM
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| fish stealer Sled!
guess that one didn't like my 8 and liked yours better...stealer!
so many ways to work a fish on the 8 and it's just plain fun to get them to eat at your feet as HTrain would say...
Is it May yet? |
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Posts: 8773
| Maybe I'm not understanding something, but if you speed up on the turns how does that leave you anything to do on the straightaway? As I come around the outside, setting up to pull the bait back towards me, that's where I'm getting ready to really rip that bait as fast as I can, on the long straight part of the 8. Are you guys actually going slower pulling the bait towards you?
Cory and Troy, I think we're actually doing the same thing and I'm not explaining it right...
That diagram shows what I do with the rod, not what the lure is doing a foot and a half behind that.
Make sense? |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | some talk about working different baits ... i think it was a badfish video but there's a segment with greg thomas and a prop top working a fish on the top when it comes to the boat ... that one made me think twice about what to do in that situation ... staying on top is something to think about ... if she doesn't eat then give it a few minutes and throw the weagle at her.
we should start another thread for guys to share how the send out their second and third offerings after a fish comes in on x, y or z ... that is also a process that some do really well. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | from your diagram ... i'd start coming in from your first line drawn to be from the left and straight into the first turn and not with another short turn going in ... she's following ... right ... get her down and juiced going into your first turn and when it "changes direction" going faster coming up and out... she's got to make a decision (or a natural response) ... which is usually to eat ... slow turns will generate more nips than eats ... IMO
corey ... publish your article ... lol
Edited by jonnysled 2/8/2008 10:45 AM
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Location: Watertown, MN | Mike, Its all Jedi mind games
Something I learned from Herbie several years with spinner bait is on very slow presentation, is keeping dawg deep till last 10 feet and speeding the bait to get it coming up at a pretty steep angle and the picking up speed into the first turn. Another thing with dawgs or other baits is on slow follow that gets behind on 8' is speed up and bring bait back crossing the fishes face for head on colllition. To me following fish is just watching and waiting for something to happen change in depth, speed and directions are just trigging tools to get a fish to commit, and some will just follow.
As the setup, that is a nascar reference(cars that don't handle in the corners won't win any one can run fast down the straight away), I pay close attention to baits and the one that don't 8 good keep getting tuned or to the penalty box, for example a dawgs that rolls in the corner keeps getting tweaked till I am happy, or wall shame.
Troyz |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Also always turn AWAY from the boat NOT towards the boat. I see this way to many times. Always go AWAY from the boat. |
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Posts: 156
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Don't do jumping jacks in the boat if a fish is behind your bait! There is a science to the eight, oval, circle, around the entire boat. In canada I had a fish behind my bait surpassing 5 minutes!! Never took it!! Has to do with the mood of the fish.
Edited by needa70lber 2/8/2008 6:11 PM
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Posts: 3864
| A couple tips from humble me..........
I also have had seasons when about 1/3 of boated fish came on the 8. I'm a believer.
I ALWAYS place a small Bucher Super Splitring between my leader swivel and my line; I tie to the splitring. Why? Because the ring will not enter the top eye of the rod, but a smaller swivel will. If you hook a big fish with your swivel already inside the top ring the swivel will likely hang up on the top eye and prevent your drag system from feeding the green fish the line it needs to move away from the boat. Break your rod, break the line, lose the fish.
The splitring strategy means less work on your part. Day or night, you know when the bait is approaching the boat and so you know when to begin to drop the rod tip in the water. I finish reeling the last 1-2 feet of line with my rod descending into the water and I'm already beginning my 8 as that split ring hits the top eye. I don't have to strain my eyes during the day; and I don't have to even see the bait day or night.
I tried the "glow bead" tip, placing a glowie bead on your line so you can see it coming at you in the dark. I've also heard of folks painting a glow spot on the lure to see it coming in so they know when to go into the 8. But with the splitring trick, I don't have to see ANYTHING, day or night, I always go into the 8 just right.
I want to emphasize that any technique that reduces eye strain and muscle fatigue means I am both 1) more alert and 2) quicker to respond to a fish. This means a lot on those days/nights when I do a 12-16 hour marathon.
ps - To eliminate the risk of hitting the boat with my rod as I'm doing an 8, I've placed a strip of that foam water pipe insulation on the gunnels on both sides of the boat. Bumping the boat metal with my rod absolutly spooks fish away, but bumping that foam is pretty much silent and the fish stays with the bait.
Edited by Ranger 2/9/2008 6:03 PM
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | One of the biggest things is to learn how to see fish in the water. The futher away from the boat you can see the fish the better chance you will have of catching it. Watch your lure and and couple of feet behind it like a hawk, never take your eye's off that area during the retrieve.
Like good deer hunters, with experience you can see fish that others can't. It pays to learn what to look for!
Seeing the fish before it's at boatside is a very big part of a successful figure-8!
Doug Johnson |
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