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Posts: 291
Location: Madison, WI | Hey, listen, all I do is pull some baits through the water....its not my fault the fishes mouth get in the way sometimes.
Your fight is with the muskies, I'm merely exercising.
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| John, you forgot to capatalize The Name of God in your first post.
Please show some respect to The One who put the fish in the waters for our enjoyment, be it sport or consumption.
Genesis..."and God created all the creatures of the seas and every moving thing that with the water teems. God saw it was good. God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the waters and the seas." I guess that they were supposed to do that so we could eat them or........"Then God said, Let us make man in our image, and let them rule over the fish of the water and the birds of the air and the creatures of the ground.".... Then after God created man, he established a food chain....."Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. RULE OVER IT AND SUBDUE IT. RULE OVER THE FISH OF THE WATER...." and finally, "I GIVE YOU EVERYTHING ON EARTH AND EVERYTHING IN IT. THEY WILL BE YOURS FOR FOOD. I GIVE YOU ALL THE FISH OF THE WATERS AND ALL THE BIRDS OF THE AIR AND ALL THE CREATURES OF THE LAND AND I GIVE YOU EVERY GREEN PLANT FOR FOOD."
So, John, I will do what God has told me to do.
I will make lures from the trees and I will see that they are good. And I will cast them in the waters and I will use the fish for food, but some I will set free because God didn't tell me to eat every one. And I will catch a fifty incher, and I will give thanks to God, and then I will take a picture of it and let it go, and then I will give more thanks that God created the fish of the waters and told me to rule over them.
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| While I greatly respect you and enjoy your posts, I have to disagree. While we ignore the "threat" of people publishing youth-based literature that quotes "you're daddy is a murderer", these people are out spending millions of dollars to recruit new hate towards our way of life.
and i say let them! the true power of America lies in the free exchange of ideas. i for one am not afraid to let my child someday be exposed to the ideas being presented by PETA. why not? because i'm confident that she'll be much more strongly influenced by her parents, one of whom is me...i think. 
actually, Justin, we agree in the main. i believe that rather than wasting our time (and money) trying to "compete" with the anti's for public voice and recognition, it's a better strategy to share outdoor experiences with new people and especially children.
anyone who's actually caught a muskie (or a bass or whatever) and then released it is immediately innoculated against any "it hurts the fish" nonsense. anyone who goes hunting and harvests a duck or a deer for the first time, can immediately know that it's possible to do so with respect for the resource.
experience is more effective than any television ad or flyer could ever be.
you say the exact same thing about getting involved.
Hunters are on the decline, fishing will follow. We aren't working hard enough.
hunting and fishing aren't declining due to any action on the part of the anti's. it's declining due to the erosion of the nuclear family and competition from participation in other things. imho, it's a real problem if we're losing kids to XBox, but not a big problem if we're losing them to soccer. of course, i think there's room in a person's life for all those things, and do share the responsibility in taking new people fishing so they can add it to their list of pastimes.
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | I killed a walleye today.....does that make me a bad person? |
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Posts: 72
| I think scuba diving in muskie waters is a good idea, I just don't agree with the ultimate rationale. I actually do take the time to scuba dive in a few of my favorite smaller lake(s) in order to determine and pinpoint structure/bottom content and contours that I think may hold muskie. I do this SIMPLY in order to then return to my boat and catch them the old-fashioned way. For me, catching them/fighting with them is WAY more fun than simply looking at them. And isn't having fun the whole point?
I must say, however, that the advent of high-quality GPS and sonar has reduced the necessity of this practice, but it is still a great way a verifying the presence of a particularly small structure or even the presence of (a) fish/baitfish. |
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Posts: 355
Location: Wausau, Wisconsin | Lambeau,
I think there is a ton of logic in both of our responses. Regardless of wording, I think the bottom line is that we want what is best for our youth and we hope that the outdoors will be part of it. Fishing is a great, great sport. Buying tackle, going out, working hard and sticking hooks into the face of a fish, battling it and doing what we choose with it is an amazing experience. I find nothing wrong in harvesting fish for the right reason. I find nothing wrong with safely catching and releasing fish regardless of species, location or time of year. I also agree with Steve, deer are tasty. |
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Location: Sun Prairie, WI | Pointerpride102 - 1/3/2008 3:13 PM
I killed a walleye today.....does that make me a bad person?
YES!!! But only cuz I'm jealous & wish I was there too! 
Edited by gtp888 1/3/2008 3:50 PM
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Posts: 1460
Location: Kronenwetter, WI | Most of us are NOT evolved beyond our ancestral past to have completely outgrown the urge to physically conquer something or someone.
Brain-stem issue really.
Neanderthal? Admittedly.
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Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | lambeau,
The Dad who has to take the kid to soccer, hockey, basketball, and baseball can't go fishing. No wonder soccer Moms and dads are so emotionally wrapped up in their kid's successes and failures.
Cowboyhannah,
That sir, is a fact. I know how I feel when I pull the trigger on a Buck out at 195, and drop him in his tracks...primal. Even more so when the arrow hits dead center kill zone and the deer keels over in 15 yards. And, I immediately think about the ground venison.....guess the grocery store just never seemed like a place to harvest my meals for the most part. Oh well, I'm a lost cause and a throwback.
Beav, yup. |
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Posts: 444
| John, in the old testament is states all life other than human life has no soul and are there as the soul purpose for human enjoyment.
I can hear the carrots cry as i cook them... |
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Posts: 82
Location: Owatonna,MN | Steve,
I agree with the deer harvest scenario. But... know whats even better? When you have a 14 year old son that feels the same way!!! I then know I have raised him right and he gets it. He arrowed his second whitetail this fall and is pumped up for next year.
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Posts: 676
Location: Wisconsin | It has been proven that fish do not feel pain. They simply do not have that part of their brain to process pain. So, to the PETA people, STOP KILLING CATS!!! PETA kills more animals than most humane societies. PETA also sponsors terrorists organizations such as ALF. However, they do get the word out and it hurts us because sometimes it doesn't look pretty to kill animals. (But it sure was freakin' pretty seeing my arrow go through that deer's heart a couple of weeks ago...)
Anyway, Hunters and fishermen(women) care more about wildlife than any PETA person could ever. They are actually out there supporting stocking, C&R, Ducks Unlimited, Muskies Inc, Trout Unlimited, and many more that make sure the habitat is there. PETA has never once gone out and bought a pond to make sure ducks have a place to rest on the way south. Us hunters and fishermen are caretakers of the resource (although some of us could do better....).
So, as the poster said, yes it is beautiful to go out and watch fish in their environment, and as someone who pays to have those fish there, I will sample that resource and enjoy it.
Ask yourself, what have you done for the animals except blow hot air?????
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Posts: 999
| I cannot believe I read this post from John on here at first I thought it was some kind of joke but now I see that it is serious...... What's up with these tree huggers these days!!! Wow I cant believe something like this is showing up on our muskie boards........... Okay now who's going where for the southern opener? What's the best reel for DCG's? Nightmare just how was your tenderlion and lobster?
Mr Musky |
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Posts: 1291
Location: Stevens Point, Wi. | I think Mr Thomas should rethink what would hurt more.
The sight of a bunch of overweight 'fishermen' dressed in skin tight rubber clothes, with over sized feet, and one large eye peering at them, would likely cause irreparable damage to the muskie psyche. I doubt if there's enough shrinks in the weedbed to ease the mental anguish that we would inflict upon them.
Given the choice, I think they would take the occasional hook in the jaw!
And it's only January
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Posts: 3918
| I think his point is worth consideration. I suspect that if humans ever break out of the dark ages, more and more folks will migrate toward not harming other critters unless necessary. |
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| i think that by this point people should realize that "John Thomas" is actually someone using irony to make a point about the dangers of taking "fish first" attitudes to an unhealthy extreme...
perhaps he's trying to warn us against muskie "releaselitism"???
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Posts: 20269
Location: oswego, il | I don't know, the idea of scube diving to view them sounds like a cool way to look at the recource. I personally would like to setup a scuba outing on the petenwell flowage. I bet there are some big bruisers on them deep river edges. Anyone want to go? |
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Posts: 355
Location: Wausau, Wisconsin | I'm poor, so I snorkel. It's a ton of fun and an annual birthday trip for Sarah and I up north. Take an ice fishing combo, it does wonders.
Heaven is just like earth, without the 'winter'net.
Chickens are just like people, except they're chickens. |
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| John
start a scuba first website , I will keep Musky fishing and releasing and taking pics , thanks
Tony |
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Posts: 1316
Location: Madison, WI | I had to hit a walleye in the head with the butt of my fillet knife the other day. It was still quivery as I filleted it, it's going to taste delicious! I love fresh walleye! |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | I killed two more walleyes today....is there any hope for forgiveness for me? |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | I snorkle in Waconia but that is to find where the buggers are hidding. I have my scuba cert and will go in 2008 to see some other areas of the lake. Again, so I can see what they are up to and where the big girls are laying.
JAmes
PS-Eat dolfins, they taste better than tuna... |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | John Thomas, Ill attempt to really address your question. #1 Muskies in some areas are rare and there is real need to bring them back as far as numbers. They eat trash fish and many exotics as well. The funny thing is that the only group of people who want to see them back are Musky fishermen. We are the ones who are getting these fish returned to natural habitat and restocking fished out lakes where spearing and over harvest decimated populations.
You say we are becoming a protection oriented group. Yes to some extent you are right on the money. Raising size limits keeps adult spawners in the water to keep populations stable . Anything wrong with that? Encouraging C.P.R. has been one of the best tools to bring this fish back of all. We are protecting our investment get it? No one else in entire world gives #*^@ about the musky except for the Musky fisherman. We know how to keep our sport strong and are doing a great job of it. Numbers of big fish all across the Muskies range are way up because of the things you mentioned. But I dont buy into it all. It is just a fish after all and if one gets whacked I dont get to concerned because there have been 100 stocked to replace it. What I dont ever want to see is this pansy B.S. hooks hurt crap that is spewed by groups like PETA instilled in my grandson. God gave us dominion over fish and animals to use them as we see fit. They are food and recreation end of story.
I recently watched the H.B.O movie about the woman who founded P.E.T.A. I was shocked at what she believes. I have never seen a more double standard take on life in anyone. I cant believe people actually follow her lead. #1 She states we are all just animals but then denies the predator. Its ok for a wolf to hunt down a baby deer and rip its throat out and start eating it before its dead. But its not ok for a man to harvest a deer humanely with a rifle. If we are all animals who is the hurtfull killer? She claims to not believe in God but used his name twice in the movie and mentioned heaven once as well in a speech. You cant have it both ways lady. She stated that when she dies she wants people to barbecue her body and eat her. UUUGGGG!!!! That is as sick as Manson in my book. She calls these statements shock tactics . I call them rantings of a lunatic. This woman is a genuine nut house case and should be confined and treated . To care about animals is one thing but to go to the extremes that these insane nit wits go to is way over the top. P.E.T.A. would be a great organization if they just concentrated on reaching out to abused pets. Providing shelters and finding homes for unwanted puppies and such. They dont even do that. In fact during the film she kills a dog with lethal injection because it has heartworm rather than spend the money(and she has millions) to treat the dog and nurse it back to health.
The plain fact about Peta is that they are a front for the anti gun movement. Bill Mar ( talk show host) Liberal gun hater is one of P.E.T.A.S board members. Much of thier monies come from anti gun lobbies that hang around Washington.
So in closing this post Ill say this to you all. Dont take these nuts for granted. They are a well funded bunch of liars that are really after our guns and dont care squat about your neighbors dog or your deer steaks. I think the founder did at one time but has gone over the edge and others like Bill Mar are now pushing them to help go for our guns. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 62
Location: chicago | John, I am a rescue diver with the CFD. RESCUE TWO. I would much rather throw a lure to a fish than recover a dead bloated body that will explode the minute I try to bag it. Get alife and go to a PETA site. |
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Posts: 3918
| "What's up with these tree huggers these days!!! Wow I cant believe something like this is showing up on our muskie boards..........."
About 8 years ago, in a thread focused on proper CPR tactics to minimize fish injury, I posted something along the lines of "Say, do you think that eventually we'll respect the fish so much we'll stop hooking them at all?". I received a much friendlier set of responses than Mr. Thomas, but of course I wasn't challenging folks to change their values, beliefs and behavior. I was just rolling the idea around in my noggin, thinking out loud of one possible future. Many responses asked if I was indirectly introducing the whole PETA thing at that time, too.
I've boated mabey 120 muskies since then and have never once felt I was doing harm. I shot a few deer since then, too. I also learned about PETA, enough to recognize these folks are working against my right/priveldge to hunt and fish.
I respectfully disagree that some God gave us dominion over all other life forms. But I totally agree that I should be able to DECIDE FOR MYSELF the manner in which I'll demonstrate my respect for our natural world and the bounty it offers. And outfits like PETA, hypocits who shake their finger under my nose with one hand while they take another bite of steak with the other, can kiss my....
(to music) ASSSSSSSk me no more questions and I'll tell you no more lies,
Forcing your values on me is turd-like, drawing only flies.
Your self-righteous, hypocritic jabbering is filling both my ears,
please shut your mouth and do something useful, like hand me two cold beers.
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| What exactly is "releaselitism"?
Sounds a lot like something "No More Muskies" or one of those other wacko anti-fishing groups would come up with. |
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| Yeah. Not sure what releaselitism is or who you are pointing at but we smell the sarcasm. not sure that will do any good either. Making fun of the people who release ALL of the muskies they catch makes you sound like an idiot. I agree with most of your stuff but you are obviously poking fun at a specigfic group of which I belong. I will NEVER kill a fish on purpose for my EGO. If that makes me an advocate of releaselitism then i am proud to be one. If you have a problem with it, not sure i would lose any sleep over that.
Let them ALL swim
Brian Maxey |
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| Yeah. Not sure what releaselitism is or who you are pointing at but we smell the sarcasm. not sure that will do any good either. Making fun of the people who release ALL of the muskies they catch makes you sound like an idiot. I agree with most of your stuff but you are obviously poking fun at a specific group of which I belong. I will NEVER kill a fish on purpose for my EGO. If that makes me an advocate of releaselitism then i am proud to be one. If you have a problem with it, not sure i would lose any sleep over that.
it's not directed at anyone or any group in particular, Maxey. what group do you belong to that you think i'm talking about?
i've released every muskie i've ever caught, so i'm sure not making of people who choose to do that. i also advocate 100% catch-and-release and i take the time to educate anyone who shares my boat about doing the same. talk to some of my friends and family who have changed their views on it as a result. i'm out there just like you and many many others who are building on the legacy of release laid down by those who came before us.
since i made the word up, i guess i get to define it, right? basically, i take issue with anyone who uses tactics of shaming or defaming someone who legally chooses to harvest a fish. it happens on the internet (usually from anonymous guest posters), and it happens in person at boat landings. instead of sharing the release message with someone a la "next time please consider..." they swear and curse at the person. "releaselitism" is being so closed-minded about release issues that you start attacking other people instead of trying to change their mind. it's counterproductive, creates more enemies to the cause than friends, and has been known to ruin a good experience for someone who didn't know better and was simply obeying the law.
the release effort is noble and right, but it's a good caution to keep in mind that adopting such extreme/elitist views that it becomes ok to publicly denigrate others does more harm than good. when that happens, who is it really that looks like the idiots?
rather than attacking someone who does a legal thing, imho it's much more productive to win people over through education and by working to increase the legal limits where biologically appropriate.
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| Many of us have issues.
I (and I'm sure others) have issues with Muskie fishermen who intentionally flock to newly discovered or newly developed or newly redeveloped Muskie fisherys expressly to get one to mount or in some cases to get many to mount.
I also have issues with the apologists for this "get mine while the getting is good" mentality and justify and defend this behavior by playing the "legal right" card.
I also have issues with individuals that demand absolute irrefutable biological evidence for any proactive change knowing full well that the lack of money and time to develope this irrefutable evidence will in reality stop this positive change dead in it's tracks.
I have issues with being labeled as an elitist or a PETA member for promoting and practicing total release when I view the ultimate elitism as intentionally killing a healthy Muskie so the skin can be painted and put on a wall and no one will ever have the chance to catch that fish again.
Steve Voigt
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Posts: 32951
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Many, in fact a large number of people here, feel much the same as you, but are able to express those ideas and beliefs without all the vitriol.
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