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Posts: 178
| Folks, take a look at the two new rules written by Representative Dan Meyer (R) of Eagle River, and note those words that I have highlighted for emphasis with ALL CAPS.
29.426 Catch and release bass fishing. No person may use any hook, bait,
or lure, other than an artificial lure that has A BARBLESS HOOK, while fishing a catch and release bass fishing season established by the department.
29.428 Catch and release muskellunge fishing. (1) The department shall
establish a fishing season that authorizes catch and release muskellunge fishing on inland waters north of USH 10 other than the boundary waters between this state and the state of Michigan. The catch and release muskellunge fishing season
established under this section shall begin on the first day of the general fishing
season established by the department and shall end on the day before the first day of the regular muskellunge fishing season established by the department.
(2) No person may use any hook, bait, or lure, other than an artificial lure that
has A BARBLESS HOOK, while fishing the catch and release muskellunge fishing season established by the department under sub. (1).
Would it not be relatively easy to modify a large artificial musky lure with three treble hooks by filing off ONE barb on ONE of those three trebles, thereby making it a lure with A BARBLESS HOOK? I point this out only because it demonstrates why state legislators should not be unilaterally writing and passing laws that govern fishing and hunting. The final language leaves a giant loophole because anyone who understands the English language, especially judges, will likely consider A BARBLESS HOOK to be synonymous with ONE BARBLESS HOOK.
Even if providing the opportunity to catch and release muskellunge in the spring is a good idea, lawmakers might have extended a courtesy to those of us who manage this resource by asking if such a rule reflected sound science, and then asking how it might be written, unambiguously, to ensure practical enforcement.
Dave Neuswanger
Fisheries Team Leader, Upper Chippewa Basin
Wisconsin DNR, Hayward
Edited by Dave N 11/21/2007 2:53 PM
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Posts: 1270
| I think the "barbless hooks do more damage" theory comes from a study on smallmouth with live bait where the hooks penetrated the throat and gullet deeper without the barb. with artificials and particularilly with muskys I don't see that as an issue because they are generally hooked in the mouth, not the throat, gullet, or other vital organs.
That said I think the barbless thing is a stupid law.
Does anybody know what would be classified as barbless? Would a hook with the barbs pinched down classify or would the barbs have to be filed off?
This is just another reason why individual laws should be voted on on there own merit. There is no reason under the sun why a C&R fishing season, whether you are for it or against it, should be in a "budget bill". |
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Posts: 32935
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Dave, reelman, exactly. |
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| HMM sounds like there are great legislators in WI that stick their collective nose where it doesn't belong just like in minnesota, sorry to here about this guys. Same way that a spearing ban was lifted in my favorite state. It sucks |
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Posts: 2112
Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water | @$#!! %^&*(( &^*()$
That is how I feel about it. |
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Posts: 133
Location: Lake Tomahawk, Musky Central, USA | I'll feel confident in saying that the DNR needs more money....especially to try and fix their lil VHS problem which to my beliefs they are at fault for.
What was the basis on their decision? I didn't see one.
And, yes, I'm sort of lucky I wasn't around when the spearing conversations were here.
However, throwin Xraps before dark on the walleye opener here, we did see quite a few big muskies on my lake that I will be lucky to ever see again. I think that's just how it goes. Not one fish was interested in our baits that early in the year...they were like bucks in the rut. It only leads me to the conclusion of ??. That's all I can say until I read up on this a bit more in depth. |
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Posts: 32935
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | VHS and the spread across the US of the virus has absolutely nothing to do with anything our State can do or could have done to stop it from finding it's way to our inland waters from the Great Lakes. My opinion; the Feds don't do enough to stop introduction of exotics and disease agents into our Great Lakes from ballast and bilge water in the commercial ships from overseas. |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | First off I'm not sure yet how I feel about this ok> Again I am not sure how I feel about this. To play devils advocate here let me ask whats so bad about it? If catch and release works as well as we think. You know we will face that question by those that decide to fish for them early. I know many muskie anglers that fished for them allready. If stopped they just said they were fishing northern pike. I believe I have even seen that posted here. We will also be asked here that the population was fine years ago when the season opend that early so whats the big deal? I know I'm not going to debate it at the bar or boat landings. Good luck with this one. Barbless hooks, you really want to start with it. Once they get barbless hooks written into a law it could spread to the entire season,do we want that? Maybe we need to just ask to have it unchanged and let it be as it was |
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| First off, the way I understand it the reason the season changed to the later date in the early 80's was not for biological reasons but it was pushed by one warden in Hayward that was encountering anglers on LCO sighting and snagging and keeping big fish that were up shallow.
After the season was changed many resorts actually saw a decline in May business.
Over the years the proposal has come up many times from different places to have a C&R season only to get put down by the CC or others. On several occasions different biologists, fish managers, and DNR personnel have stated to me and others that there is no biological reason or evidence of it that an early C&R season would harm the fishery. Yet it always failed being enacted. So while I too do not agree that the politicians should be involved with this, just maybe it was the ONLY way it would have gotten done?
Personally I do not feel it is an issue that will have a negative effect on our musky fishery but could help the northern WI economy out and give us another fishing opportunity.  |
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| I applaud Mr. Meyer for finding a way to get things done.
Mr. Meyer found a way to provide Fishing related businesses with added revenue and provide Muskie Fisherman with more opportunities to fish in this state. At the same time he included protection for the Muskie fishery via a C&R only season (that could/should be extended) and through barbless hooks. While I'm not convinced going barbless is necessary, it would certainly help when anglers are not equipped with the proper release tools. This also furthers the education process that releasing all Muskies is a viable regulation , and that barbless hooks aid in the release process (as do bolt cutters etc.)
Should the DNR feel that these regulations are threatening to the Muskie fishery they have the ability to work through the NRB to change these regs immediately - as they did for the sturgeon fishery earlier this year. While I support the early C&R season (an oppty to fish with kids on action lakes near hayward), if the WDNR were to demonstrate reasons why this may be harmful to the Muskie fishery, I would change my view on the subject. I'd encourage the WDNR to identify specific waters where there is danger to the fishery and get those waters in front of the NRB immediately. (One lake at a a time - if necessary. See Pelican Lake size limit)
The debate on whether the barbless regulation is enforceable shouldn't be an issue. If someone is fishing without barbs - write them a ticket and let the courts decide. Also - this can be better defined in the DNR Reg booklet before the season opens.
Mr. Meyers work should be applauded, he used all the tools available to him to provide businesses and fisherman in his area added oppportunities to practice their livelihood while protecting the resource. The changes aren't perfect, and the WDNR has more than enough time to provide any added necessary controls before this takes effect.
I just wish Mr. Meyer had included a Musky stamp and raised the statewide minimum size limit at the same time.
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Posts: 32935
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'I just wish Mr. Meyer had included a Musky stamp and raised the statewide minimum size limit at the same time. '
I'm really glad he didn't try that one. That's the job of a fisheries manager to decide, not a lawmaker, IMO.
"Politicians should be changed as often as diapers, and for the very same reason." |
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Posts: 8844
| "Politicians should be changed as often as diapers, and for the very same reason."
brilliant |
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Posts: 999
| Why does the pike and walleye season shut down at the end of February each year? O ya to protect them during their spawn. Why not have it a catch and release season, barbless hooks only between Feb 30th and the May opener??? That way we could really enjoy the late season ice fishing and it would bring in more revenue. Makes sense to me. If they want to harass the hell out of the musky's when they are up shallow then we might as well harass the pike and walleye too when they are spawning.
Mr Musky |
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| Mr. Musky,
Nice to see you recommending the harassment of any fish while they are spawning. (that should endear Musky anglers to other fisherman)
In most lakes (not all) the Muskies have completed the spawn by the opener. If not the WDNR has the tools to change this across the board - or on an individual lake basis. On a large percentage of lakes there is no natural reproduction - so why close the season at all?
Nothing has been taken out of the WDNR hands, they just have to act if they feel protection is needed. They looked at the sturgeon fishery and acted based on scientific reasons this summer - bypassing the conservation congress. They changed the season and size limits. The WDNR should be applauded for this. I hope they look at Muskies with the same seriousness.
If it's something that the biologists feel is a problem, I expect to see action on their part. IMHO there are a few lakes that should be exempt from the early season (LCO & Trout are two that come to mind from discussions with the WDNR).
It will be interesting to see how this plays out, but I'm hoping the WDNR uses it in their favor to protect spawners in some lakes where necessary while channeling early season fishing pressure to lakes that can support it. (ie: hi density lakes)
I know several kids that will get exposed to some fantastic action lakes during this early season. I hope that there isn't an overreaction that closes the early season back down.
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Posts: 999
| Guest,
That statement that most musky's are done spawning are done by the opener (I assume your talking walleye opener) is not true. Things have been ahead of schedule these past few years because of the abnormally warm early springs. Other years there's still ice on some lakes for the opener in northern WI. My point I was trying to make is that other species are shut down at that time to protect them while they spawn or finish up spawning. Other guys who fish the northwoods would agree with me on this.
Mr Musky |
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Posts: 5874
| Uhm, there are lots of waters in WI that are open to walleye fishing during the spawn. That would be catch and KEEP fishing, too. So your point really is? |
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Posts: 999
| Shep im referring to the Northern WI waters that are closed from Feb 30th to the first weekend in May. My point really is that it is closed for walleyes and northerns for a reason, the same reason Muskys dont open till Memorial day weekend in the northern zone. I am against this early catch and release season because I think way to many muskys are going to be snagged, there's just too many of them up shallow that early in the year and too many idiots out there dying for a big fish at any expense!!!!! If anything why aren't we keeping the musky season open till Feb 30th like Northerns and Walleyes both northern and southern zone? What sense does the Nov 30th closer make? It surely isn't going to affect a darn thing keeping it open longer rather then opening it sooner.
Mr Musky |
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| I am a Wisconsin native currently living in Minnesota, and I spend close to 100 days a year fishing northern WI, mainly targeting muskies on the Turtle Flambeau Flowage. I just became aware of Rep. Meyer's actions today thanks to a link to a Lakeland Times article that was posted on another fishing site, and I am outraged. I'm glad to see Dave Neuswanger expressing his disgust for the manner in which this seson was created, and I share it.
You folks are missing the bigger picture. At a time when the DNR is working so hard to restore the quality and reputation of the state's musky fishery and restore natural reproduction in lakes like mine, even a slight possibility that this might have an adverse effect makes it a terrible idea. This also sets a very dangerous precedent for future legislative interference with the DNR's statutory authority to regulate hunting and fishing. How ironic that at the same time the state senate passed a measure that would reduce political influence over the DNR by shifting the authority to appoint the DNR secretary from the governor back to the Natural Resources Board, this idiot from Eagle River has created a new fishing season by circumventing the established CC process and sticking it in the back door through the budget bill. We'd better hope the folks who think it won't harm the fish are right, or we'll all end up taking it in the back door.
I have notified Rep. Meyer (and every chamber of commerce in his district) that I have no intention of taking part in the early season and intend to boycott every business in his district until and unless this nonsense is repealed. I urge others to do likewise.
[email protected] |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | "Politicians should be changed as often as diapers, and for the very same reason."
Steve wants Robin Williams as President?
This is an enforcement nightmare in the making. They should have thrown trolling in there right away too.
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Posts: 32935
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Sure, he'd be about as effective as anyone else we have had in the job in the last 30 years, and would be just another actor in the White House...plus he would be actually interesting to listen to. George Carlin for VP. Dennis Miller for Defense Secretary.
End of the freaking world, but we'd go out laughing. |
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Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | I'm about as relaxed about Wisconsin fishing as anybody, I've come to the realization that fishing here is all about the tourism dollar. What I don't understand is why they allow rules that make an already understaffed Enforcement agency work harder. Is there plans to increase warden enforcement up there? Probably not and we'll be right back to using the "honor system" that's already happening.
Wisconsin's new motto: "Fish All You Want, We'll Make More" |
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Posts: 444
| I dont understand any of Steve's W's concerns, How often do you even see DNR?, much less have them harrass you were you have to agrue about fishing for pike vs muskies...has for barbless, big deal you change out hooks, takes 10secs, and is obvious barbless is smaller in diameter and would create a smaller hole and much easier to remove.i think this is a great opurtinity to fish early season muskies that wont have any adverse effect on the population, I also cant beleive you toss small spinners and have never caught a muskie, I catch them all time on small bass spinners, 3 inch crankbaits and even crappie minnows and night crawlers...
opener in may, Cant wait for a five fish day!! I'm going to call the DNR and thank them... |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | How often do we see the DNR? All the time! I've been checked every single time I've been out up north. I get checked in the Point area all the time. I even got checked on a lake that I didnt think the DNR came to at all. It is going to be an enforcement nightmare. Plain and simple. One guy up in the front tossing for walleyes and the other guy in back tossing for muskies. One guy in the front tossing a jig and a minnow the guy in back tossing a Creature Jig. Who is fishing for what? Which hooks have to be barbless? If I hook into a musky while walleye fishing and the warden sees me land it, am I now fishing for muskies because I landed one on my walleye gear? Maybe these are extreme situations, but I see this being a nightmare to enforce. |
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Posts: 444
| you get checked everytime, BS!, I fished wisconsin for 20 years and have seen the DNR once...which was the only time my grandpa has ever been checked and he but in almost 60 years in northern WI, you guys are getting carried away.... |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Why would I make that up? I've been checked every time I've gone out up north. I even know the warden by name. Heck I've been checked twice in one day. They are out there. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | You've only been checked once in 20 years. Well, if you fish lakes that get a lot of attention, and or boating traffic, you will get checked. Pointerpride and I got checked two consecutive trips to the same lake this past year. That lake has a lot of resorts, but is also a very good fishing lake. If your on the right water and at the right time, you will get checked. Their is only two wardens per county if I am right, how can a warden be on every lake in the north woods? That is impossible. Even with super human powers. The wardens are out there, watching when you have no clue there even there.
Edited by Merckid 11/24/2007 6:16 PM
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Posts: 444
| Well pointer arent you studying up to be involved in the DNR community? Lets see how much time you can waste sitting around, watching fishermen with your binocs, DNR resources are stretched really thin, maybe it's the one lake you fish...Mercid, two DNR a county? How many Muskie lakes in Ashland, iron or sawyer county? Then there going to Desinate there resources to spy on fisherman, i dont beleive it.... |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Actually, I'm not studying to be a warden, sorry to disappoint. Yes I agree, the DNR is stretched very thin in the warden area. Not much we can do about that, but the fact of the matter is they are out there checking people. They cant check everyone, you must be one of the lucky ones. Regardless, this thing is going to be a nightmare to enforce, but on the other side, if its open, I'll fish it. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | You just made my point more solid. You haven't been checked all but once in 20 years? Wouldn't you think that if there were more than two wardens per county you would be checked a bit more than that? I know in Langlade, Oneida and Vilas, there are only two wardens in each of those counties. Reason I know that, I talked to one of both of the wardens in all three of those counties this year. Usually, they split a county up, one warden gets the northern half of a county and the other gets the southern half. Or, east side or west side of the county. |
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Posts: 444
| that was my point, why even worry about getting checked and dealing with the DNR, two wardens a county were there good easly be twenty plus muskie lakes?my pint is there not going to harrass you....The DNR gets a bad rap like cops, so cool to hate them.. There just doesnt seem to be a solid, logic based reason were this is going to be hurtfull to the Muskie population,
Sorry pointer i must have miss read an earlier post, thought you were studying to work with the DNR... |
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