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Posts: 203
| leave it alone. Rowtrolling is legal!! And fun!! |
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| I have trolled alone many, many times, with three rods. Fish getting tangled in lines hasn't really been an issue for me. Depending which line gets hit, I will clear one or both of the other lines. Hasn't really been a problem for me. If I get bit on a board rod, I'll clear the boat or down rod on that side, and leave the other board rod alone. It only takes a few seconds to clear that rod. If I have a boat or down rod on the other side, I would probably clear that, too, in a few more seconds. Then I would grab the rod from the holder, and fight the fish. We're talking a few seconds here. I'm not dragging a fish around behind the boat.
What kind of stress does the fish receive if the boat is left in gear and basically drug in? The same whether I have one rod or two, or three. What does the number of rods have to do with the stress of being retrieved? I don't take the boat out of gear even when I clear the other lines.
I've had doubles. I ususally get the closest fish in first, un hook it, and then go for the next, if it's still on. I know I can handle that amount of equipment.
Do you actually think 1 line per angler is the reason for all the big fish in MN? You don't think way less pressure, better genetics of the stocked fish, and higher size limits, is the real reason?
I understand you are playing devil's advocate a bit. But I like trolling, with three lines. I've yet to see a scientific study showing that 3 lines is harmful to the resource.
As far a multiple boards out on small lakes? It doesn't natter how many boards are out. What matters is how far the farthest board is out. For some, they could have 3 out per side, or one out per side. But the spread would be the same. Personally, I don't run my boards out too far when muskie fishing. It's not like muskies shy out from the boat like walleyes. |
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| I think smaller lakes in northern wi should never have trolling...maybe it's personal preference but it's nice to be on a 200 acre lake in nov and not hear a sound..
are there some bigger lakes up there i'd take a stab at trolling if i could..you bet...but i guess if i had to pick i'd say leave the law alone...except figure out the wording to allow suckers on quick strikes to be legal and no "gray area" and i'd be happy...
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Posts: 5874
| bn - 10/31/2007 10:56 AM
I think smaller lakes in northern wi should never have trolling...maybe it's personal preference but it's nice to be on a 200 acre lake in nov and not hear a sound..
are there some bigger lakes up there i'd take a stab at trolling if i could..you bet...but i guess if i had to pick i'd say leave the law alone...except figure out the wording to allow suckers on quick strikes to be legal and no "gray area" and i'd be happy...
Works for me. I wouldn't care if they keprt the nontrolling lakes that way. Outlaw single hook killrigs, and clean up the wording of the trolling reg, and I'd be satisfied. I am happy trolling the lakes/rivers that I can now. I wouldn't go up north anymore than I do now if trolling was opened up. Probably less if they limit me to one line! |
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Posts: 189
Location: Barrington, Il | JSloan, right on. Tradition-you have to work for your fish. Its real hard work to sit on shore by a fire drinking beer with single hook rigs out. These are the same guys who put out bait to deer hunt.
All these complaints about "my 200 acre lake in fall being disturbed by trollers". Do you really think the world is going to rush up there and start trolling? There will still be hardly anyone fishing in late Oct. or Nov. If someone is trolling a lake you want to fish, go to another if it bothers you.
"My Lakes" "My peace and quiet" "Stay in the suburbs and blow your leaves" Addict-when did you buy the whole northwoods and want to dictate what others can do. Aren't you from Chicago, too. Next time you want to go up north let me know and I'll tell everyone to put away their leafblowers for the weekend.
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Posts: 8788
| Millsie,
Yes, I AM from Chicago. I live in the suburbs, white bread suburban McMansion strip mall Wal Mart Parking lot 2 kids and a dog Wisteria lane hell. I work downtown in the loop. It's friggin' disgusting. The people and the additudes, complete disregard for everything and everyone. There is a reason they hate us up North, Millise, there's a reason why they look at those IL plates on your truck and call you names I can't repeat here. There's a reason why they celebrate in secret when we run our boat up on a reef at WOT. Not saying you do this, but it's the noise, the lack of respect, the desire to bring our $^%& up there with us instead of respecting that things are just fine, and always have been just fine without us and our Illinois BS. I didn't buy the whole northwoods, just a part of it, on a nice musky lake, in an area that hasn't changed much in the last 100 years. And if I was rich, I'd buy as much of it as I could, and leave it alone.
What the locals (many of whom are good friends of mine) hate more than anything is "those rich %^*&'s from IL who come up here and try to change the Northwoods." I have more respect for those people who have lived their whole lives up there to not come up there and be the guy they wish would go home, trying to change things because I want to troll, or I want to run my jet ski all over the lake at 8:00 in the morning. It's not about "MY" peace and quiet or "MY" lake, as it is "THE" peace and quiet, which is what makes the Northwoods special, and I suspect that the people who live there would all agree that things are fine the way they are, and some rich FIB coming up there wanting to change things because of what HE wants to be able to do is a sure sign that he's not going to last very long up there. Again, not an accusation, just an observation from making friends with several of the locals in my area. They call Minocqua "Monoxsious" for a reason, and I'm not about to be that reason. I have more respect for the Northwoods than to turn it into that.
Edited by esoxaddict 10/31/2007 2:22 PM
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Posts: 580
| I guess I just don't "get it." I don't understand why a slowly moving boat (trolling) disrupts the peace and serenity of the northwoods any moreso than any other fishing boat motoring at 20-40mph from spot to spot. Is it the slow speed? Is it colors of the planer boards? Maybe if they were camoflauged?
Lost Land and Teal lakes in Sawyer County have a 10mph speed limit. Known as the "quiet lakes". Can't help but slowly motor from spot to spot. Apparently, however, all those muskie boats slow motoring around the lake ruining the peace and serenity?! Or, is it just when someone puts a bait in the water behind the boat that the serenity is destroyed?
Sorry, I don't get why trolling gets such a bad rap. Some folks believe it is a lazy man's method of fishing, and I think that is because those same people don't appreciate really what it is that goes into successful trolling. But now the aesthetics are offered as the reasons to ban it?
I've got relatives from MN who occasionally have come over to WI to fish. Walleye guys mainly. Good guys. I had to politely explain to them that trolling was illegal in WI, and they asked me why.....I honestly couldn't articulate a decent reason....But I can assure you that I'd have gotten some goofy looks if I tried to tell them that its because it disturbs the peace, or that it ruins the northwoods experience. Again, why does motoring slowly with trailing baits disturb peace/serenity more/less than motoring quickly spot to spot and then having 2-3 guys casting with 2-8oz baits crashing into the water?
Beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder.....apparently some cringe at the idea of a troller moving at 3.5mph with a couple planer boards out, due to the ugliness of it all. But I just don't understand how a law prohibiting others (who may think that trolling is a more peaceful manner of fishing) from trolling can be justified in that fashion, and I have yet to hear any other reason that would justify it.
Edited by Matt DeVos 10/31/2007 9:06 PM
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Posts: 50
Location: Central Wi. | If you want to troll, head out to the middle of Lake Michigan and knock yourself out. |
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Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I would like to troll right here in Northern Wisconsin, thanks. But that's just me. |
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | .
Edited by C_Nelson 6/7/2008 9:01 AM
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Posts: 32890
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Just my opinion, 5 and 6 will be very hard to get past the CC. |
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Location: Lake Tomahawk, WI | Chuck, I don't understand the reason behind #1, please explain.
Thanks.
JS |
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Posts: 578
Location: Sheboygan Falls, WI | .
Edited by C_Nelson 6/7/2008 9:02 AM
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Posts: 663
| Let's get behind Chuck's plan, find a friendly legislator and have him attach it as a line item in some budget bill. That way we avoid all those nasty rules, regulations, and scrutiny of the DNR and the public.  Seriously though, Chucks idea has merit. I'd love to see further discussion on it. |
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Posts: 350
Location: WESTERN WI | I it ain't broke, don't fix it!!! |
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| Got esox, that is the problem; it IS "broken". The use of sucker rules on non-trolling lakes are so grey they look like Bret Favre's beard. |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | Just my thoughts, if you are going to try to promote trolling in a reg, why limit it. Make it year round, make it three lines, but do not try to add size limits with it. That is much akin to adding fishing regulations into a budget bill.
Stick with a proposal to legalize trolling, maybe limit the number of lines, but I surely wouldn't limit time of year. If you want the tool, why limit it to a time of year. |
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Posts: 189
Location: Barrington, Il | Addict,
I've had a cabin up there for 20 years now. I lived the backtrolling days, i was part of the problem when single hook sucker rigs were prevelant. I killed many fish with suckers and none with trolling. I understand the peace and quiet of the northwoods. i don't even like being there in the summer. I just don't understand how allowing trolling is going to disrubt it. Every fisherman is not going to run up north to troll just because they can. Your lake will still be quiet. How many of the locals you have made freinds with still use sinle hook sucker rigs? I'd be more worried about them killing fish than someone trolling.
This will also clear up the position fishing problem. Those that want to fish suckers and cast won't have to worry about getting a ticket. THIS is a big problem. The pressure in the fall will still be about the same. Some will troll, probably more will still fish suckers. Warderns can worry about something else.
Trolling has nothing to do with the FIBs trying to make the northwoods into the suburbs. I understand what you are saying. But this is trolling-slowly pulling lures around lake. My dad has arthritis so bad he can't cast anymore and can barely get in the boat, so I guess he has to stop fishing for muskies now. He is the one that taught me to fish and to love the outdoors. Maybe you or I will be there one, too. Do you have kids? Too young to cast large lures? How about trolling with them and handing them the rod when a fish is hooked. Think you'll have a partner for life?
There are so many more benefits to allow trolling than negatives. JSloan, I want to buy you a beer sometime. You are the voice of reason.
Jeff |
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| Rules that limit the number of ways you can catch fish DOES have a conservation impact in places where people keep everything they catch. You really want to give the knucklehead that keeps every muskie he catches more ways to get them in the boat? To help the fishery, we should make it as hard as possible for that guy to catch a fish! Right?!?
Sloan has it right. But that might not fly in Wisconsin because there is just enough democracy involved in the DNR's decision-making process to make it difficult for them to make unpopular changes (even if the reason for the unpopularity is a illogical one).
I'm all for a 45" statewide minimum, with 50" (or more) on "trophy waters" and lower limits on the lakes that would benefit from it.
Also, if a quiet lake wants to ban trolling, why wouldn't the lake association just do that same as they did with jetskis?????? No-wake rules, motor limits, etc. are all local rules. Just make another one than bans trolling if it's that big of a deal! Seems stupid to me that people would be that concerned about trolling (it's quiet, slow-moving ... peaceful) but if a lake association wants to ban it on "their" lake more power to them.
I do think that it could make sense to go from the current 3 rod/angler rule down to 2 to avoid the 6 rod spreads. But people should realize that 6 rod spreads don't make sense on the small lakes where it would most irritating and it would probably never be a big deal.
-Guest |
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Posts: 1
| Trolling is not nearly the threat to quality muskie fishing that the 34" min size is. I say allow trolling and move the size limit up to 45 or 50".
As for trolling having a negative impact on the lake's peaceful environment, nonsense. If that is even a consideration, we must first ban jet skis and recreational boaters. I can't count the number of times I've been buzzed around at 35 MPH or more while casting.
More on the size issue below:
Muskie Size Limits FAQ
Mike Roberts
Published March 23, 2006
A)An estimated 92 % of all muskies are released, but the mean length of harvested muskies is only 37 inches (Simonson and Hewett 1999). As a fish grows larger than 40 inches, the odds of its being kept instead of released keep increasing. Based on data in Casselman (1999), it takes a female musky an average of 9 years to reach 40 inches and another 7 years to reach 50 inches. It may be caught many times during this time, but each fish can only be harvested once. Casselman et al (1996) suggest that with a 2% increase in mortality, recruitment would need to be doubled to maintain the number of trophy muskellunge in a population. Relying solely on voluntary release is not an effective way to grow big muskies.
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/article.asp?aid=1029
Edited by Warrior 11/1/2007 11:02 AM
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Posts: 8788
| Truth be told there is a lot less pressure now than there was 20 or 30 years ago, a LOT less. Towns that used to have 20 or 30 resorts now have one or two, because all the resorts were sold off to people like me, wanting to build their dream homes in an unspoiled place. What was once the source of 20 - 30 fishing boats on a weekend is now the source of 2-3 boats, most likely (hopefully) piloted by people with a personal stake in keeping things from becoming a zoo. It's the best its ever been. If we could on board with increased size limits, it would be even better, a LOT better.
I don't see trolling being a huge disruption, and I don't think hundreds of trollers will suddenly go way up North. Not at FIRST anyway. But it's an untapped fishery -- motor trolling will put baits in places where baits don't now go, where lots of big fish have never seen them. The end result would be an INCREDIBLE trolling bite. When word of that gets out? That's when there's going to be trouble. That's when the masses will make their pilgramage to the Northwoods in search of Musky Mecca. If you don't think it will happen, look at what's happened in MN over the last 5-10 years.
That sort of pressure, even 5 additional boats on a 200 acre lake, will be a detriment. I guess I'm not opposed to it on the bigger lakes, but smaller lakes just can't handle that kind of pressure -- they are good because few people fish them, and they are limited in how they are able to fish them. Since its difficult if not impossible to get increased size limits passed, the only way we can ensure those tiny little lakes will still be great fisheries is to leave them just the way they are.
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| Addict, would you support or be OK with trolling on smaller lakes in conjunction with a higher size limit? |
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Posts: 7049
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | I always love the debate on trolling as a legal means of muskie fishing. Sort of like how people see sucker fishing.....EASY! As in if you throw some lures in the water, drive around and around, you're going to catch a fish. I started getting "into" muskie trolilng a few years back on small lakes, and I can tell you this: it is MUCH EASIER to catch a muskie throwing a bucktail at a weedline all day than it is to troll on a small lake for muskies. Add in the thought of running a 6 line spread, and your level of difficulty way up, then try to do it with any kind of speed, force multiplier goes through the roof!
There's a reason that people refer to me as "Ahab" when my boat is trolling.....setting, pulling, re-setting, pulling lines is NOT an easy task and its a team effort where everyone has to be working together. Add in trying to keep the boat in waters where the breaks arent so uniform....or there are jagged rocks.....or high weeds......or logs and trees.
Hooks kill fish. You can cast those hooks, troll those hooks, whatever.....but if you're fishing for them, you're going to kill some over time. Yes, if you drag a fish around for 10 minutes, flop them on the deck to unhook them, then torpedo them back into the drink, your relese survival numbers are going to go waaaaay down. But, the same applies for casting, fighting fish to exhaustion, letting the fish flop on the deck while releasing them, and the torpedo release.
I think the rules are.....it really doesnt matter what I think of the rules. If someone has a vote for me to cast, I'll troll it in. BUT, regardless of what happens, any of you who think that trolling is easy can come out and set my lines on Webster or the Chain when we're running 5.5mph. I bet you're as tired from this as you would be from casting....
People arent going to flock to lakes because you can troll there. Let's get real for a second. If big muskies exist in lakes, people will find ways to catch them, casting or trolling. In my loud and obnoxious opinion we ALL as muskie fisherman need to get away from this "keep the pressure from MY LAKE" bs. Why are you hoping no one will fish YOUR lake? Get off it, you dont own the lake, and you dont own the fish. If you dont like other boats on YOUR lake, go somewhere else. If there arent enough muskie waters, get involved in promoting the expansion of muskie populations into other lakes. |
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Posts: 8788
| If we could get higher size limits passed in Vilas, I wouldn't care as much. I still think trolling should be limited to lakes over a certain size however, maybe 300 acres and above. Considering the amount of water you can cover compared to casting or even row trolling, I do think there needs to be a limit no matter what the size limits are.
And Slamr, nobody said it was easy. But even you have to admit that running 6 lines trolling ups your odds of contacting fish by a pretty big margin. It's no less work, and it's not something any idiot can go and do, but chances are if you troll you're going to catch a lot more fish. You can't say that there won't be a lot more fish caught if we allow trolling.
Edited by esoxaddict 11/1/2007 11:25 AM
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Posts: 7049
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | I don't see trolling being a huge disruption, and I don't think hundreds of trollers will suddenly go way up North. Not at FIRST anyway.
*because though the fishing in N.WI has been improving since the late 1980s....this has caused MORE people to go there?
But it's an untapped fishery
*anyone who has driven in N.WI can look around, see a ton of lakes with these "untapped fisheries" and yet they dont flock there now.
-- motor trolling will put baits in places where baits don't now go, where lots of big fish have never seen them.
*you mean like Howie and Adam do on their deep clear lakes....as Adam how full his lodge is in really late fall? People flocking there?
The end result would be an INCREDIBLE trolling bite.
*Jeff, I've seen you drive a boat trolling....your experience level is probably where that of these "pilgrims" would be. See my above post about the ease of trolling.
When word of that gets out? That's when there's going to be trouble. That's when the masses will make their pilgramage to the Northwoods in search of Musky Mecca.
*and that is a bad thing? or now is it that you own land up there, you dont want to share the waters with others. you dont feel as though that water that others have taken YOU on in the past, is ok for others to fish? if there is great fishing, people should go to it. good for them! i hope they catch fish! i hope the local commerce booms because of it! i hope we all see a boom in new fangled gear that we can all use because of the increase in muskie interest! you dont want any of that?
If you don't think it will happen, look at what's happened in MN over the last 5-10 years.
*have you been there? and if you have, isnt it a great thing that MN has the fishery it does? isnt it great that having a great fishery in MN gives muskie fisherman another destination to experience great fishing? or is that a bad thing?
If all these muskie fisherman have great trolling fishing in WI....and they go there.....you're assuming then that they wouldnt have been fishing elsewhere? Because unless you are assuming that, then there will be less fishing in other places....or should people just NOT FISH cause they might be on a lake you like, or that you bought property on? |
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Posts: 7049
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | If we could get higher size limits passed in Vilas, I wouldn't care as much.
*so what you're really saying then is that you think that its easy to catch fish trolling, so more fish being caught means more people killing fish...so really what you're saying is that you dont want people catching fish.....
Kinda selfish dont ya think?
and you talk about lake size...if the lake is 300 acres....how much do you think is really "trollable"? ever tried shallow water trolling? See my post about trolling hardness, and multiply by another factor of 5. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Shallow water trolling? Last I heard about your trolling skills was you had to head halfway to Michigan over 200 fow....hehehe!
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Pointerpride102 - 11/1/2007 11:26 AM
Shallow water trolling? Last I heard about your trolling skills was you had to head halfway to Michigan over 200 fow....hehehe!
SOOO much easier when you dont have to worry about hitting the bottom. |
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Posts: 8788
| If I wanted to fish with 10000 other people I'd have bought something on the Fox Chain, or in Madison. Is it selfish? Probably.
"or now is it that you own land up there, you dont want to share the waters with others."
The fact that there is hardly anybody up there is why I bought land up there, Slamr. I don't mind sharing it with a few others, as long as they treat it with respect, and don't make it less enjoyable for everyone. As for fishing those places others have showed me? It all depends. Howie's little black lagoons, for example? If you ever see me on one, you canr est assured that I called him first and made sure it was ok. You may call it selfish, I call it knowing a good thing when I see it and wanting to keep it quiet and unspoiled so it remains a good thing. You've fished the Fox Chain, right? Do I REALLY need to tell you why having nobody on a lake is a good thing? |
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Posts: 7049
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | I get the whole thing about peace and quiet....I really do. There's a reason that we pick the location we do for our fall outing. What I'm saying is that a. its selfish to want to keep others off your water and b. its a little off base to think that trolling is going to make people drive to small lakes that they've never gone to before, now that they can troll.
St.Clair has amazing fish catching opportunities, it's basically the same distance from Chicago as N.WI is, and not that many people go there just to troll.... |
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