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Posts: 1247
Location: On the Niagara River in Buffalo, NY | SVT, You may want to look at past threads in archive at my web site message board at www.mostlymuskies.com/reports.htm
You can ask any Trolling question here or on my message board, I will answer it if I can and as soon as I can,I'm gone to Shows a lot this time of the year and can't get to the boards every day. I troll 75% of the time,both at night and day. |
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| There's a guy who catches some enormous fish trolling! In-line boards are way, way easier to set up, pack around and run than mast boards. But you give up speed, spread and can't use as large/hard-pulling of a lure, those are the biggest trade-offs. Little Offshore walleye boards with locking front releases are great for all fish. About the biggest baits we use behind them are 10" Jakes/10" Beleivers. They've perfect for DepthRaiders, Invaders and spinner-style lures. With low speeds and smaller baits like for trout and walleye, you can feed them out laterally over some huge distances. More speed sucks them in tighter to the boat. But even still, an extra 25-30' swath covered out from the boat is pretty nice! We're only allowed 1 line/man up here. If we were allowed two or more, I'd have boards out at all times. At least one. Some of the structure we fish is real sharp and drops fast into deep water so there are lots of turns and cut backs with the boat, making boards a little more work. But over open water or flat spots, the extra coverage they give you is a big plus, I think. They're easy to use, definitely safer to learn on (and cheaper) than say, a downrigger. You will never rip anything off your boat, snag a ball or lose cable. They float, are light weight and a set will last you a lifetime. They're a super investment. Especially if you do other species in the offseason. I have had pike, bass and muskie all smash boards, too. I think they could be deadly towing surface lures in some cases. Most of the spreads we run, the deepest sets are closest to the boat, the further out we go laterally, the shallower the set, usually. Baits 12 to 40 feet behind a board and out laterally a good distance catch fish. A good chop helps get the surging action going. If you blow a board off on a strike, hard turn or by spearing a wave, loop around and pick it up. Nearly everything we get trolling is with the wind, rarely into it. And with the wind, the boards really stall and surge baits along. Braided line and shorter leads helps this affect. I think for row trolling (something I've never done but would love to try) boards would be awesome. Boards are like trolling with a bobber, you see the strike, it's highly visual and there will be no confusion when one its, watching a fish burry the board is a really cool deal. By the time you pick the rod, the fish is on, don't set the hook. If the fish blows off the board, so much the better, in my opinion. Pick it up after. Having a long rod and an extra set of hands helps if/when the releases stay put. And watch for people not paying attention and running over your whole whole set-up. It happens all the time. Low flying geese and gulls have also run thru the line out to the board...talk about a mess! As long as I get my lure back, the bird always wins  I got a thirty pound lake trout last April, triggered by a Canada Goose flying thru my line and flailing around with my jointed Rapala 90' behind the chaos. Unwrapped the goose, picked the down off my line ( it was like glue, all wadded up in the guides and reel) took up the slack and a big laker was pulling the other way. The poor goose had a 17' Lund bearing down on it from one end and a fish dragging it around from the other. |
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | Dacron, wire is on my list this year to learn to work for muskies. I've been starting to fish Lake Michigan for the chrome the past few years and have learned a ton trolling out there. I have some good ideas this year to try, but we'll see. They look good on paper at least. LOL
Willis, I wouldn't necessarily just put the lines out 5, and 15' (I know you didn't actually say this, but bear with me). Depending on how high the weeds are to the surface, what types of baits you are running, and how fast you are going would help me dial in how much line. If you can just hit the weeds everyonce in a while, you should be good. If you're just starting out doing it, run 2 rods. In the skinny water at least, you'll be able to adjust those 2 rods faster. If you know there is a weed clump coming up, you can push your rod tip up to bring the bait higher, then push it back down to get it back to where you want it. (I use Down Easters, so it makes it easy to do). But, if you can run more than one rod a person, once you get comfortable, try 2 on really short lines right off the back corner of the boat, then 2 out from there that you can keep moving around the structure you are fishing.
Good to hear some trolling talk. Larry, I'll have to check your board out. I'm always looking to talk (and learn more) about trolling. |
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Posts: 255
Location: MadCity Wisconsin | I used several types of planer boards last year and found the Offshore boards to be most reliable. I had trouble with both the standard adjustable tension line clips in both black or red as the clips frequently pulled off in wave action or speeds up to 5mph. Lambeau gave me good advice on picking up the clamp style OR18's and didnt have a single pull off from waves or speed from that point forward. These clamps are not cheap at 15 bucks apiece but worth the loss of aggravation.
Interesting finding......For every 10 muskie trolled up only 1 one would hit on the planer board. The other 90% hit on straight line or prop wash trolled baits. Didnt make much sense to me, but tell the muskies that!
Row trolling was a different story with 50% of our skis hitting planer board baits. Go figure. |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | Tuffy,
Thanks for the info. I like to troll around 3mph mostly, but for no real reason. trolling in water depths 6-8 ft with weeds coming within 3 feet of the surface. This probably narrows down the lure types I can use. My shallower lures were listed above.
Another question: do you guys attribute much of your success to your line counters? I just haven't come to the point where it is an exact science quite yet. When given the choice, I would rather buy reels that I want to cast and also have the ability to troll. A line counter reel doesn't really give you the option to cast for any given length of time. Is it worth the sacrifice? |
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Posts: 1710
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | I am just starting to troll for muskies but I do spoonplug. If metered line is not available Buck Perry said to count passes of the levelwind. You can measure out in the yard from one end of the reel to the other (on the levelwind) and use this as a general baseline. |
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Posts: 255
Location: MadCity Wisconsin | Willis......I am sure Tuffy 1 will agree, if you are serious about trolling for muskie line counters are a must due to the fact that you need to know exactly how much line you put out and how deep your baits will run. A GPS is also a must-have to mark your trolling runs as close to structure as possible and marking & repeating successful runs.
You can pick up very reliable, durable line counter reels for less than 70 bucks. Daiwas 47LCs or Cabelas Depthmasters hold up well for only 40 bucks a piece. |
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | That's exactly what I was going to say Ryan. Willis, for trolling shallow, a line counter isn't necessary, however when working deeper water and trying to get your baits down deeper, it helps to stay consistent. But again, you can count passes as well. No problems there.
The shallow baits you mentioned will work good for ya too. |
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| Just make sure she's got a clicker and you're all set.
Don't forget! Many, many trolling sets are 50' back and less. We use two foot pulls off the reel. A 'pull' is about two feet. 25 of them and you're back 50. It's not an exact science, but quick, easy to reproduce and it works just fine. Any sets with longer leads, a counter reel works quicker. If you've mostly got less than fifty feet of line out and often as little as 1/2 to 1/4 that, there's no need for a special counter reel in my opinion. Pulls work just fine for those shorter sets. You can use your casting stuff. Shortlining, propwashing etc there's no need for a counter. You're not letting out much line to begin with. 50'+ is a little more time-consuming for pulls, way easier to play out line straight off the reel and just watch the number wheels. A hot set for us with walleye boards is "75:" 25 feet behind the clip, 50 feet out from the rod holder. You can run Jakes etc right up along most of the structure we fish and come through OK and still have a shot at fish over deeper water. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | This might be a silly question, but I don't seem to see it talked about much in trolling discussions. When you are trolling with your rods in holders, how tight do you set your drags? I know that I can set the drag a little tighter when holding the rod because I can quickly freespool or point the rod back when I get snagged or (less often) when a fish hits.
I'm guessing you want the drag to slip when a big fish hits so you aren't dragging 30 pound of fish through the water if a big fish hits, or snap rods or rod holders when you get snagged. How do you trollers go about setting your drags when having the rods in holders?
curleytail |
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Posts: 27
Location: Workin' the deep breaks | what are everyone's favorite trolling rods? I was having this discussion with tuffy1 earlier (thanks by the way) as I need to replenish my trolling arsenal this year and was just wondering what everyone else's opinion was... |
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Posts: 255
Location: MadCity Wisconsin | Trolling Rods....... I was using Cabelas CatMax 7.5' for over a year and most of them held up. Line guides failed on one of them once. The price was right for around 25 bucks. I switched over to Shimano Taloras with stainless steel line guides after watching them in action with Mike Pittiglio on Lake St. Clair. The Taloras are built like tanks. 60 bucks on sale.
Stay away from the Gander Guide series........the line guides are thin, frail and will not hold up. |
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Posts: 2
| I have a few of these removable linecounters and they worked well for me. I tried to find them on another site but I only found them on Cabelas.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=00020...
Edited by Little35 2/26/2008 11:08 PM
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Posts: 1286
Location: WI | For those running jerkbaits, do you put the rod in a holder or are you pumping the rod while trolling? I was thinking that maybe on a short line in the prop wash they might bounce all over on their own. I know I've read an article in MHM about it..just want to know how others do it. |
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | For my drags, I would go a little on the loose side if you're not sure. But as an easy way to test, run your bait back a ways, then rip the rod forward. Your drag should slip when doing this. Not too much, just get a little line slipping. As a general rule, that should get you close. You don't want it so loose that you don't get a good hook into the fish, or too tight that you end up straightening hooks out. You can get away with a little more using mono due to the stretch, but with braid you'll end up loosing more fish if you have too tight of a drag.
As far as jerkbaits go, it depends on what I'm trolling. I haven't run sledges, but I think those you can just put down and let them do their thing. If I'm trolling suicks, then I am pumping the rod. I'm usually going pretty fast with a suick too so it gives you a good workout. If I'm trolling gliders, I use gliders that have their own side to side action (slamer drop bellies shine here). Those I just put in the holders and let the boat (turns, waves etc) give them erratic action in between the normal swimming motion they have. |
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| If your desire is to become a better fishermen then learning to troll properly is your 1st step
AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!  |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | I get what you're saying about the line counter. To know exactly where my bait is for deeper sets, i'll need a counter.
The lake I fish 90% of the time has a very inconsistant bottom. I must use a GPS and follow the contours, and have even marked a 20' line around all the reefs to further detail the bottom. (i'm trying to make a science out of this)
If i'm trolling the 20' break, i'll throw out a 10" jake pretty far (say 70 feet) also a ernie and maybe a believer.
if it is hitting bottom, i'll reel in a few feet. If it's not, i'll let a few out.
This seems lie a pretty crude method, but I can't be that far off. I'll try to measure the line counting passes on the levelwind this spring. At least that will help my confidence of knowing where the lure is. Unfortunately, it won't tell me where the fish are
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | Willis,
Don't be afraid to run it over their heads. 4-10' down over 20' is not a bad bet most times.
S. |
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| SVT, a note on spoon plugs, the larger spoon plugs move water just like a number ten blade would, be open minded.
Ben
Edited by MuskyFix 2/27/2008 12:02 PM
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| I never once said anything about spoon plugs....Id never use them. |
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| Bobbies troll really well too, if you bend down the corner tabs on the widest part of the tail fin 90 degrees, they rumble like a crankbait and hang on over four miles an hour. The faster the better. Just a second tip on your board releases---any rubber pad release, downrigger clips included--when you store them, put a spacer in between the pads for them to close on. They will bond a bit and get gummy, especially when they're all roughed up from line and lots of fishing. The pads will wear faster and I have had them pull off their mounts after they fused together and I went to spread them. It's not needed between trips, but it's a good idea over the winter, say if they'll be sitting for a couple months. Those little plastic bread tie things that come on Wonderbread work just fine (they make a good guitar pick in a pinch too). Use loc-tite on the front clips where they attach to the mounting arm. The little nut will come loose from the bolt. You can spit and duct tape a rear clip to save a day's fishing but that front clip is a lot tougher to rig up if it falls off. You want it on there indefinitely. |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | Do you troll weighted bobbies/suicks, or floating? |
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| Both willis, most of them have a bell sinker up front for depth and sound, even on the weighted models. A few of the patterns I like I can only ever find in unweighted so I weight them. Unweighted without hook rash or teeth holes right outta the box can be tough to keep down for me. Unweighted Sledges are tough too, a 3oz Bead Chain to a 24" leader to the bait works good, Sledges have a real nice high-speed action slicing back and forth, rattles too. I really like the Big Daddies trolling, used them a bit last year, they're like the Bobbie, almost a crankbait wobble. Suicks I hold the rod and pump, Bobbie, Sledge or Big Daddie will run fine in a holder. Straight bach or on a 45 over the transom near the wash is normally where we put them, you might need weight. |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | Thanks Dacron...
Where do you attach the bell sinker on the bait? |
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | You can attach those to the split rings on the hooks Willis. |
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| Yep, on the front split ring. It's tricky, but try to set it up so that the sinker rides tucked in back of the hook shaft. Ideally, it should hang at rest in the space where two bends meet the main shaft. You will have to take it off and put it on a few times to get it right. Most of my Suicks have little holes worn in the belly where the weigt knocks back and hits the wood. You get good sound off this set up, it works even better on Beleivers with the hollow plastic. It doesn't have to be perfect, on a well-tuned Suick it won't change the action much, just try to rig the weight behind the hook or off to one side rather than straight in front. Casting you get longer throws, more hang and more sound, trolling you can keep them down and sound. 10"ers unweighted I use as heavy as 5/8 I think. Solder on the front hook shaft works too, but no sound and you shrink all three hook gaps. I use Mustads 3x Heavy wire hooks on most Suicks, at least the front two any ways. The wire stock is like screw-driver thick but the points really hone down fine and sharp. They're real heavy hooks! Probably 1/3 of all my hard baits don't even use a treble off the tail at all. |
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | I'm excited. I bought my first suick last year, and it hasn't performed to my liking. I may have to tune it more, I didn't like how bouyant it is. It rises WAY too fast if you ask me. This will help a great deal with casting, and hopefully I can add another trolling option to my arsenal. |
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| After a few hours of hook rash and some fish, it will take on water and hang down. Try the heavy wire hooks too, a 6/0 under the chin and two 5/0's behind that. That high-bouyancy is exactly what I like in heavy slop cabbage and reeds. They back right out of the weeds and many fish pick them right off the top. The ones I throw on deeper spots and later in the year pretty much suspend, some run as deep as 8 or 9 feet. You will like the real bouyant ones for making short casts in shallow water and heavy cabbage etc, very weed-free. Up around Red Lake ON, surface fishing 10" unweighted Suicks on top is one of the best ways to get big pike early on. The longer you lay it there the better, they'll come get it. Try to belly flop it down feathering the reel so that it hits flat on the belly, I try to do this with Bulldawgs too, it makes a really natural 'smuck' sound. If they don't hit it after a 15 count, pull it under for a few feet, let it rise, and wait again. I fished it pull-pause for three solid days until a 30-year guest at our lodge smoked me surface fishing. I got a laugh watching him fish a Suick sitting down, but I wasn't laughing for long, that's the best way to fish it up there. Any wood bait, the more beat up it gets, the better it will stay down, adding heavy wire hooks will help right away too. Those 3x wire Mustads have a shorter overall shank than the stock hooks, but they still hook very well. Smaller sized help Depthraiders etc run deeper and hang too, if that's what the spot calls for. |
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Posts: 155
| I,d just start with boat rods.Fish are drawn towards motor noise.So having 1 rod on both sides of the boat is one of the best choices to hook one good. |
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| Looking at buying a couple rod/reel combos this weekend. Any ideas guys? I plan on trolling a couple times a week from ice out to ice up....mono or braid? Where can I get 80lb mono? |
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