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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | That is some interesting material, I remeber several years ago looking at some mpg published by manufactures, and showed the their 4 strokes slight outperformed the 2-strokes. Interesting seeing the result from the independent study. So the biggest saving on a 4 stroke is not burning the oil, so at the price difference from a 2 to a 4 stroke, you will need to burn alot of oil.
Troyz |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | All I know is that I've got an opti and my next motor will be a Zuki. Aside from Slamrs problem, I've never heard of another issue with their motors. Frankies took one in on trade with 4000 hours on it. They sold it (and told them it had 4000 hours on it) 2 years ago and it's still running.
It really boils down to what kind of boat you're putting it on. If you've got a go-fast boat (ie bass boat) you go with the 2 stroke. If you've got a boat that isn't that fast and/or just want a motor that's going to start everytime for years on end go with the Zuki. |
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| that 620 couldn't get over 49? c'mon...also, don't 4 strokes perform better once broken in ? not sure how many hours that takes..and who knows, maybe the guy had it propped for a better hole shot and didn't play with the propping to make it have a higher top end...I guess I'll let you know how many mph I lose, if any after the Suzi is installed...I'm guessing it goes just about as fast |
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Posts: 814
| All the merc's in that test had lab tweaked props the yamaha prop was STOCK! Shep we all know 2 strokes have better hole shot thats a no brainer never said they didn't but top speed should be the same. And if you read carefully I said yes ALL TWO STROKES pollute MORE than 4 strokes. Go start a harley then go start a 125cc dirt bike same scenario. Also You should know that tweaked props get better mileage because they are more efficient, no slip, more bow lift, and more bite,anyone who wants a prop tutorial should call dah custom props and ask for John he'll set yah strait! Just reading between the lines!!!
Edited by mskyhntr 6/13/2007 1:55 PM
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| I'm guessing it goes just about as fast
everything listed in the article is "just about" the same. if the differences matter, they're going to be small differences.
top speed with the Opti was 64.5; assuming the Suzi pushed a little faster after raising it higher you could safely assume right around 60mph.
same with the fuel economy, they're all "just about" the same.
although not listed in that article, it's same with emissions, "just about" the same as they're all tremendously clean-running now days. my 200hp Opti is "ultra low" by California standards, whereas my 9.9hp 4-stroke is something like "super low"...i forget the exact titles but it's the top and 2nd-top categories. they are decidedly not big polluters and comply with industry emission standards.
i have noticed that the 200hp Suzi on Norm's boat is quite a bit quieter than the 200hp Opti on my boat; though this only really matters at idle or slow speeds. at 50-60mph the difference is minimal and sucked away behind you anyhow. i kinda like the growl of the big 2-stroke for getting here and there.
i definitely want it quiet when going slow, however, something i loved about my previous 70hp Suzi tiller: which is why i got a 9.9hp 4-stroke kicker on this one.
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| so what is top speed of Norms boat with the Suzi and right prop and what is top speed of yours?
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| as reported in the article, my Opti is faster out of the hole, and faster top-end: but they're "just about" the same.
Norm reports his 200hp Suzi runs 57 with a "light load" and 2 guys; 52-54 with 3 guys fully loaded.
i've had mine at 59 with a "light load"/2 guys; and 58 with a full load and 3 people.
my motor also is not yet broke in, as it has less than 10 hours on it.
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9...
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| I'm going to assume he has a stainless prop too...aluminum props don't get nearly the top end...also I was told by the big Suzi dealer the propping of the Suzi's takes some finesse and might take a few props to get it right as there are a ton less options for props for them currently..just what he said..
I guess we'll have to race Lambeau...
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| here's a test Suzuki did on a 185vs, very similiar weight/length/width to what I have..has a shallower/faster hull but it did just under 60 with the 175 Suzi...
http://www.suzukimarine.com/boatbuilders/boattests/ranger_df175s1.p...
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | BN,
I am running a Suzi, and love it. That doesn't mean it is all things. It is quiet, scary quiet, don't even know its running quiet. Its also slower than an Opti. Its a fact of life, it is slower. I may be able to tweak the prop just a bit, maybe just taking some nicks out of it would help too. I can't hit 57 on a regular basis, everything has to be perfect to get that. Last night running across Moens with two guys and 50 gals of fuel it ran 55. It seem as if the Opti's are about 3-5mph faster than I am.
Is that a bad thing? Most of the time I am running around 40-45, so top end is not a big issue to me, if it was I would have my prop cupped and the dings taken out of it to get a couple more MPH. Did I mention it was quiet. That makes a big difference to me. I can talk to clients while the motor is running, try that in an Opti.
The fuel thing is a non-issue if all your concerned about is top end. None of them are worth a hoot running WOT. Like I said normally I am running around 2/3 throttle.
I am incredibly pleased with my rig. I am not overly concerned about the top end speed (although going fast is way cool). I feel the Suzi really enhances what I have my boat for, which ultimately is taking clients fishing.
The long and short of it, going faster than everyone else is cool, may help in a tourney, but won't put more fish in your boat!
As a side note......you would never believe how many so called 60mph boats can't keep up with my doggy Suzi! 
Edited by nwild 6/13/2007 2:42 PM
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Posts: 5874
| The boat was a 2005 620, with a 225 Yamaha 4 stroke. Don't know which prop, but it definately wasn't propped for hole shot. Took forever to get on plane. Once up, it topped out at 49. This was on Green Bay last July, 2nd day of the FLW tour event. Maybe he had too much prop and wasn't running high enough RPM's, maybe the motor wasn't in the right hole, maybe he didn't know to trim it up all the way. I can't answer those questions. I only know what I observed. Either way, all I'm saying is that I haven't seen a naturally aspirated 4 stroke perform as well as a DFI 2-stroke.
Maybe a longer hole shot, slightly lower top end, along with mid range performance, doesn't amount to a hill of beans. And maybe being quieter is a deciding factor. And maybe it's because your friend has a certain motor, or you, or somone you know, had a bad one from a certain manufacturer. Pick a motor on what you want from it, just like you do your boat, rods, reels, baits, leaders, gas, oil, beer, ...... The list goes on.
I've said it before. All the manufactures make good motors these days. Pick the one you want, and I won't criticize your decision. I may have some fun with it, but I won't ever say you made a bad decision. It's your money, you should spend it how you think you should.
That said, I hope your present motor isn't terminal, but if it is, good luck with your next one. |
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| sounds good Norm...I'm not looking to have the fastest boat...If I was I wouldn't own what I do...just wanted to make sure it would get over 50 at least!
as going fast esp to outrun lightning and storms does come in handy...
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| you had 50 gallons of fuel in that thing.????..geeeezuz Norm that should last all summer! I don't think I ran mine with over 25 gallons in it...
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | I would expect the Suzi to be a little slower, the are geared a little lower, also 4 stroke motor weight a little more than the 2-strokes.
In the study if merc was using a "tweaked prop" versus a factory stock that would make a huge difference. When I went from a raker 22 to tempest plus 23 picked up 4-5 mph. Than just stock props, you can change quite a bit by playing with props.
Troyz
I thinks we just want to race boats on pinks. |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | BN,
I hit the jackpot and thought I would fill'er up!! After I did it I had to adjust the asking price on my rig to compensate for a full fuel tank!
Actually, I am fishing the Three Lakes Chain alot right now and I can put 70-150 miles a week on the boat there. The 1890 doesn't row very well, and I don't want to gas up every couple days, so when I stop I fill it.
Edited by nwild 6/13/2007 2:52 PM
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Posts: 5874
| I keep mine full all the time. I don't like going over 60!
Oh, and sled. No, Yamaha is not my favorite motor. Merc's are. But I don't really have anything against them. Other than they are slow, and gray, and you can't hear them coming. and....
I actually almost had Evinrudes this year. Until I found out I was going to have to pay for them.
As I said, they all make great motors. Pick the one you like, and have a great time fishing.
Edited by Shep 6/13/2007 3:43 PM
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Posts: 144
| If you plan on getting rid of your kicker, go Suzuki. If you keep your kicker I would go with the Opti. I had one small block opti( 150 hp) that would load up the plugs, miss and generally run like crap when you trolled with it for any length of time. This is not to say that all small block optimax motors won't troll, but mine wouldn't. Other than that, all three optis I have had have been trouble free. |
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Posts: 32914
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It's plain common knowledge that the DFI two strokes are stronger, faster, and achieve better fuel economy IN THE FIELD RUNNING ON CONSUMER'S boats. Htnr, get out to a major event where the Pros are running almost to the edge of their fuel load and see who is traveling the longest distance. Absolutely no question the DFI two strokes are faster.The Props in the B&W test, by the way, were supposed to have been chosen by the engine builder for what they felt would get top performance for their product.
The Bass and Walleye Boat writers ( read the comments) already suspected from previous testing the DFI Merc would take overall honors and beat the 4s on the fuel economy side of things, but really had hoped to test the Etec against the others. No idea why Bombardier declined to send motors. I see them on the FLW and PWT, and they seem to be strong, quiet as quiet, good running engines. As far as emissions, I'll find the Bombardier, Yamaha and Merc stuff if I get a chance and post it.
The new DFI 2s are NOT 'dirt bike' or motorcycle technology; Bombardier (not a tiny or uninformed company by any means) has bet everything 2 strokes are the future in 'green and clean' outboard technology.
I believe I presented facts, and backed them up with what the outboard companies are saying about their engines at OEM meetings I attend, experience in the field at literally dozens of Pro Walleye events, and salted all that with the idea the differences are not huge, and the decision on which engine one buys will be based on 'feature/benefits' and each customer's interpretation of all of this.
The Suzi is a beautifully engineered and well built motor. Are they warranty proof? Of course not. My son ran a 70 that spent a fair amount of time in the shop, but the service was excellent and dealer network plenty strong.
So study up, make a decision based on facts, and enjoy the new motor. Tomorrow, I order a new 200 OptiMax and a new 9.9 Pro Kicker.
Why not a Verado? I ran one two years ago; it was an amazing engine. Fast, quiet, and strong, that supercharged 4 stroke was very nice. I just can't see spending the extra money on one. That's me! We will see where Mercury and Yamaha go in the future with the DFI and 4 stroke technology. Suzi is strictly 4, Yamaha both, Mercury both, and Bombardier strictly 2. Interesting. |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | "if it aint black on the back, the boat aint worth a crap."
My Suzi is a very nice shade of black. I am sure that's what you meant.....isn't it? |
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| I was thinking the same thing Norm...!
I don't buy the opinion that you will get more for your boat down the road with a Merc on the back as opposed to something else...depending on what year/model Merc it is I think you could easily get less..just from what I've seen in the last 4-5 yrs of watching people try to sell their boats...
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Posts: 32914
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | bn,
Mercury has the highest resale value on the market in the USA, especially in the freshwater fishing arena. Not surprising, as they also have the largest market share.
Your Suzi will resell just fine, IF you ever decide to sell her. With the boat and motor you'll be running, I'm betting you are set for a very long time. |
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| It will sell better with that Suzi over that spent EFI that is for sure! |
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Posts: 5874
| That fact that it is a 690 is what's going to sell, not so much the motor. The 690 is still one one the best boats on the water. A better musky boat than the 619's and 620's, IMHO. Love the layout. |
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Posts: 176
Location: Tomahawk, WI | Merc. just came out with a 175 Opti Pro XS. Available in July. Brad, this motor with a 21" Tempest on your 690 will definately get you past 60 MPH, NOT THAT IT MATTERS, ya right. |
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Posts: 373
Location: Browerville, Minnesota | Just bought a new Lund, and had no doubts as to what was going on the back end. OPTIMAX all the way. I can't say I know much about Suzuki, having never been in boat powered by one, but have heard lots of good things about them. My brother has the exact same boat as I do, but he has a Yammy on the back. Quiet...yes, but seems really doggie out of the hole. When I want to go, I want to go now. One of my best fishing buddies was nothing but a 4 stroke man for the longest time. Couldnt even get him to talk 2 strokes, nothing good to say about them. Then he got his first Opti and he swears he will never change. I just like the performance that I have seen from the Optimax's. |
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| Thanks for all the advice/comments....after thinking it over I went with a new 175 Suzi on the back....Mercury is a good motor...but I went with the nice quiet Suzi that still should push me along fast enough....
On the rig by end of week hopefully..... |
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Posts: 176
Location: Tomahawk, WI | Cool, Let us know how it performs, after break in of course. I am very interested, because i have the same boat. |
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| Well I got the call she is ready to be picked up..they had it out on the lake last nite and it hit 56-57 on gps at 5800 rpms...said it should get about 6k out of it once broken in and maybe push the 60 mark.
I will report on how it performs for me as I'll be testing it out tonite....
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| Had the new motor out tonite...very impressed...quiet and pretty powerful...not as snappy as a 2 stroke but it pulled hard and got my 690 on plane very quickly with me and Dan O in the boat and 1/2 tank of gas...ran around the lake all evening and I don't think my gas gauge budged!!
quickly had it up to 54.5 on gps before backing off...had a bit to go....
it brought us a bit of luck as we scored a mid 30 incher and a 42"
6 yr warranty with it...no worries.
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| i bet it feels gooood to be out and running again and having the confidence that comes with a new motor sitting on the back of your boat.
enjoy!
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