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Posts: 1430
Location: Eastern Ontario | I think safety and con fort as well as fishability are most important when comes time to select a good guide boat. Personally I run a 20' Mirage with a 225 HP and I can get away with an 18 footer like I had in the past. But I think clients drive 900 miles or fly to come and fish in comfort. Yes big fish are important but if you are uncomfortable in an old 16-17 foot boat or unsafe in large waters. Reliability is another important factor, you don't want clients staying in while you get your boat repaired.
As for $$$ I don't think my price would change if I ran a $40K 18 footer vs. the $60 20 footer. It would have to be a tinny with a small motor but then again my first boat was a 16.5 footer with a 40HP as this is a big river.
Some of us are fortunate enough to offer the full package, trophy muskie in full comfort. |
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| Donnie to answer your question
Whats the biggest expense
There 2 in my case
1) Gas
2) food/lodging ( meals being the biggest part)
Both fuel and meals are pretty much equivalent and run each in the 5 digits
thats the 2 essentiall cost for a full season
Its all relevant to the service you offer,the more you offer, more cost you will have
At times,the over extention of the services you offer are tacked on as extra expenses but the loyalty pays off in the long term
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| Your kidding right? You are going to include food as one of your biggest expenses? I believe that everyone even non fishing guides eat! That one cannot even be considered. Lodging on the other hand, yes, but most guides live reasonably close to where they are guiding. Just wondering how this got this far and no one has mentioned that yes guides have expensive boats, but like Lambeu said they can work deals with manufacturers, they can depreciate their boat and truck. They can write off interest on them. Every "big name guide" which this post refers too is receiving free lures all the time. Not to mention they probably have some form of promotional deal with several manufacturers which helps them to offset the cost of lures, nets, etc. Maybe not all of the cost, but some. And before someone gets smart with me and tells me to get in the truck and drive up to northern wisconsin and start guiding, I never would want that job in a million years! The guys that do this for a living are all special people, I would love to try and fish for 6-7 months a year, but even if fishing with my best friends in the world that would be tiring. Now try and do it with people that you hardly know, or have only talked to on the phone! It would be one of the hardest jobs to do seven days a week. It would have some very rewarding moments, but I bet that there are more frustrating moments than rewarding ones. The guys that are trying to make their living in a boat are earning every penny that they get, leave it alone until you've done it yourself. |
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| Nel,my trips include lodging and meals and guide fees,one rate everything included
Dude if I ate that much food,I problably never ber able to get out of the boat again 
Sorry I should have clarified |
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| Nel, I dont think companies give anything out for free and rightfully so.Most promote or work at shows in exchange they are allocated a certain amount of product
Steve can correct me on this
I know I must show my yearly promotinal efforts for a return in product,rightfully so |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | No, I think neurosurgeons make around $800.00/hour, and probably more! Guides make less than that!
I find this thread interesting as I suppose I'm a "big name" guide. I've been guiding on the LOTWs for around 30 years, and full time for the past 15 years.
Most of the folks that I know who are really trying to make a living at muskies guiding have another source of income. Most full time guides are young, single, have a old car, but a new Ranger (financed), and are renting a very low rent apartment/cabin. I'll bet most don't clear $20,000/year, I know that I don't.
As far as I can tell being a "Big Name" guide doesn't get you too much better deal on big ticket items than what you can get if you're are good shopper.
Doug Johnson
Edited by dougj 5/7/2007 9:01 PM
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Posts: 2894
Location: Yahara River Chain | I could be a big name guide. I have 6 letters in my 1st name and 11 in my last name. That's a total of 17 letters!!! Can't get much bigger than that. (and I'm a smart a$$ to boot!!!)
Gerard Hellenbrand
Vanna White would be sooo proud of me!!!
Edited by muskie! nut 5/7/2007 8:54 PM
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Posts: 45
Location: North-Central WI | The bottom line is this - as guides, we charge what we feel is needed to make a living. That being said, when one takes into consideration the amount of time, equipment, and effort necessary to guide muskies successfully, the daily price doesn't seem too much after all...
Just my two cents worth,
Joel DeBoer
Edited by J DeBoer 5/8/2007 5:24 AM
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| yes guides have expensive boats, but like Lambeu said they can work deals with manufacturers
just to be clear, i've not posted a response to this thread before now, and i definitely didn't say anything about guides working out deals with manufacturers.
i think that there is a certain mystique associated with guides, and rightfully so, that comes from them "living the life" of fishing for muskies every day. as with all mystiques, it tends to glamorize the good parts (catch muskies!) and completely ignore the negatives (live like a coyote) that come with it.
the reality is that it's a job. like all jobs, i imagine that some days it can be something you love and some days it can be something you hate. the bottom line is that it's a blue-collar job: a working-man's job. it's much more akin to construction or landscaping than it is to being a neurosurgeon - both in pay and the physical effort required.
every full-time guide i've talked to describes hard days of getting up early, working outside all day in all kinds of weather, and going to bed exhausted late at night. hmmm, that sounds alot like the parts of my job that sucked when i was in the Army...and it's exactly why i went to college to avoid having to do it for the rest of my life.
don't envy fishing guides for their supposed income, or supposed deals on gear. so some of them get a couple free lures tossed their way? most non-guides make more money than guides and can afford to buy their own. and as for guides getting free boats? good one. the smart ones just get real good at floating the interest.
if you want to envy them, make it for them having the balls to do something where they have someone doing a job evaluation on them every day they go to work. most of the time i'm pretty good at my job, but that doesn't mean i'd want my boss basing part of my pay on it every day!
in a supply-and-demand market, prices will set themselves. prices will always be as high as the buyers will allow, but they will never be over that point either.
a hard-working guide earns every dollar and "perk" they get. because they do actually have to go out and work for it. just like you and me...
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| Do any guides guarantee fish for the costs they charge, or offer reduced rates if they don't produce? I've never hired a guide, and was just curious. I'm in no way asking anyone to justify their fees, I just don't know. Anyone? Thanks. |
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Posts: 929
Location: Rhinelander. | All I can say is walk a mile in those shoes before you go running off at the mouth about the money someone else makes. Unless you have been in business for yourself you do not have a clue as to what it really takes to make a buck. $400.00 a day doet seem to much at all to charge for a day. Also for guides that don't do it full time I will tell you ur expenses are not cheaper then those that do it full time. |
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Posts: 56
| Lambeau,
You must have been a fishing guide in your past life because you hit the nail on the head! Anyone out there interested in my free boat at the end of the season?  Interesting thread.
Lee Tauchen |
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| Well Lee as you get a free boat and seeing you are giving it away
I"ll take it
Doug,I aint getting any younger but the child support payments keep going up
Like my age I suppose
Lambeau very good response
Its truelly a way of life,you earn a living ,making money is not part of the reasons for doing such a proffession.
Donnie,not sure the expenses are relevant to big names but more so to the services and efforts you offer.I suspect those are the factors more so than who you may be. |
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Posts: 2024
| as with all mystiques, it tends to glamorize the good parts (catch muskies!) and completely ignore the negatives (live like a coyote) that come with it.
That's funny, but true from the guides I've talked to, so maybe it's not so funny  
All I gotta say about Lambeau's post is, TRUE DAT.
Edited by esox50 5/8/2007 6:09 AM
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| Marc, Doug, Lambeau, Lee, Gerard (not sure if you said anything interesting), and all others that have responded,
This was what I was looking for! Very diverse ideas, very diverse fishermen, and a world apart from what it used to be. Today's muskie anglers I feel are electronically and technologically sound...it is a matter of running the right lanes (at the right depths) for those who troll...running the right weed edge or break when casting. Running the baits that best fit the need...and with 1,000's of times as many as ANY time in history, that can be an expense too. I've gotten a few free lures over the years, but most of them cost ME money!
I guess my whole point about this stemmed from the fuel increase and the cost of boats increasing. I think it was mentioned "safety." Ulrimately, that IS the most important! If you're fishing a big body of water, size of the boat DOES matter.
Thanks for all your replies.
Donnie |
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| Several people have mentioned that the guides are charging too much. If people are willing to pay your rates and your schedule is booked, as most of the "Big Name Guides BNG's" are, then their NOT charging to much. Supply and demand.
You'll know your charging too much when people start going to cheaper guides, but until then, reep while you can. |
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| Ultimately, most of them CAN'T do it any cheaper. As DouJ mentioned, even AFTER expenses, most guides net $20,000/year. Could any of us on this board live on $20,000? I have 3 kids, one starting college. His tuition alone is going to be $20,000/year! |
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Posts: 2753
Location: Mauston, Wisconsin | mskyhntr - 5/4/2007 5:33 PM
I may me going out on a whim here but....I think guides are WAY over priced! 400 dollars a day X 7 days a week=2,800.00 times 7 months 78,400 FOR A PART TIME JOB! I bet most people on this site don't make that in a year! And if they weren't making money at it guides wouldn't be poping up left and right. Now I am not knocking ANY guides! Do I fish with guides YOU BET, I am good friends with a few of them and would love to be in there shoes!!
I really don't understand this assertion that full time guiding is a part time job. It's the same thing as a skilled construction worker in WI/MN/Ontario CA- You've got to make your money when the weather allows you too! Also 8+ hours a day, 7 days a week, for 7 months is hardly a part time job. Besides most of the real guides have winter jobs/speaking engagements, second career's, etc. to supplement their "part time income". You also have to factor in the inclimate weather (it's to dangerous to go out), cancellation's, no show's.
If I told my wife I was going to stop doing what I do and start guiding for ~$75k/year she'd definitely question my sanity. Now if she did'nt know any better, that would be another story!
Have fun!
Al |
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| Derrys,
I agree with everything you said minus one point- a neurosurgeon makes a whole lot more than $800/day. In fact, you're not even half way there for most neurosurgeons.
But I agree, if you can pull in $600/day helping people catch muskies, you're a whole lot smarter than me! |
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Posts: 1430
Location: Eastern Ontario | I just don't know how anyone can say guides make a lot of money. Lets say I charge $500 a day and guide 5 days a week for the entire season. That's like $60K for the season. Even if I didn't have any expenses it's not that much of an income but when you subtract the expenses it doesn't leave much.
Yes we get deals on boats, motors, electronics, rods, reels and lures. But most of us just go out and get a bigger boat, bigger motor, better rods and reels ect ect. Some of us offer the complete package first class from lodging to guiding and yes trophy muskies are the bonus.
That's why we have a winter job to help pay the bills as lord knows guiding ain't it.
BTW some of us are fortunate enough to have a wife with benefits including a pension as I know I have nether. |
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| I caught 1 Muskie last year.(Although I didn't fish much). I guess if I loved Muskie fishing as much as some of you guys do, and I could work that into a job, I'd do it in an instant.
My aunt is a former college professer. She was once asked "What would be the perfect job?" She responded by saying this: "The perfect job is a job which pays you a fair wage for doing what you might normally do for free". Well I'd say being a Muskie guide fits that statement perfectly, as I doubt that if guys were not out guiding, that they'd NOT be fishing anyway.
I'd say it's a good gig if you can get it, and I know it's a lot of hard work. I think people just see dollar figures thrown out there like $500.00-$700.00 per day, and don't think about what else is actually involved. Charging batteries, gassing up the boat, etc. There are too many expenses to mention.
My boat is actually on it's last legs, and I may need to use a guide to get some fishing in. Anyone want to show me around Mille Lacs? How about $100.00 per day? |
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| My bad, I meant slamr sorry lambeu, must have had the packers on the mind that day. |
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Posts: 358
Location: London, England | I'd be interested to know how often guides get competent anglers in the boat with them against the times when the anglers can barely cast and have no real idea what they're doing? The few times I've taken people out the standard of their fishing skills has been frustratingly low. If that was common I wouldn't enjoy guiding at all and would probably end up taking up golf to relax! |
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| Yep.... |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'I like fishing muskies, so I'll guide for a living.'
'I like boats, so I'll select a career in the Navy.'
It's not a job, it's an adventure!! |
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Steve;
Isn't that why any guide would choose to pursue that as a career, because they like to fish?
If I was hiring any guide, that would be first on my criteria as a must have quality is that they like to go fishing.
Are you saying that just because you like to fish, that isn't enough to get into the guiding business?
What business would be appropriate for such a person than?
JS |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Obviously, I'm saying that 'liking to Muskie fish' is not a very good reason to decide to guide.
One needs to look at why one fishes muskies. If it's for the enjoyment of the challenge, time with friends and family, and relaxation, guiding might not be a good career path. And, it also is a good idea to be very accomplished at the sport; in other words, be 'good' at it.
I enjoy guiding. I like watching well versed anglers work, enjoy teaching those who need a bit of help, and enjoy the challenge of getting a client into a good fish. But when I was full time, I found myself not enjoying fishing with friends and family as much, especially for Muskies. For awhile there, I didn't fish Muskies at all unless I was guiding, and that wasn't what I wanted. So I backed off the full time idea, and now do some guiding when the rest of my work schedule permits.
Much better. |
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Posts: 8781
| John, I know your question was directed at Steve, but I feel compelled to answer...
You can love fishing more than anything in the world and still be a lousy guide in my opinion. You have to love PEOPLE. You have to love teaching. You have to be patient, unsderstanding, even tempered, and kind. You have to be able to pick out backlashes all day, watch your equipment get broken, abused, lost, watch people miss fish by not doing figure 8's, fish lures out of trees, off docks, watch that perfect cast YOU were about to make get blown because someone else's line is all over the water, pick line out of your trolling motor, and deal with people who have never been fishing before. You have to be willing to sit there all day and listen to soeone whine because they're paying you $300, it's 10:00 and they haven't caught anything yet, its hot its cold its raining...
You have to love fishing, of COURSE you have to love fishing. But I think you have to love GUIDING more.
I love fishing and I love teaching. I like people and I like helping people. But could I be a guide? I know there would be guys that all I would be thinking all day is "how long until I can get this IDIOT out of my boat?" I know there's be guys who no matter what I told them did NOT listen, didn't do what I told them, lost fish and blamed me. And I can't guarantee I wouldn't lose my temper and swear at them. How would YOU feel if you hired a guide and at some point he yelled at you "what the %^&$ are you DOING?! I $^%&$ TOLD YOU to set the hook! GOD, that was a nice $%#&% fish and you ^%$* BLEW IT!"
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Brad, I'm your guy. Bring gas money and the Monster energy drinks and it's game-on! |
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| Treats, if you're serious, you name the date, access, and time, and I'll be waiting in the parking lot. I'll bring "Rock Star" and "Vault", and even cover the gas expense unless you plan on high-speed trolling tactics all day long. Game-on! |
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