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Mauser |
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Posts: 724 Location: Southern W.Va. | If we refer to it as "Lake X", you can be sure that we are trying to keep the lake to ourselfs. I live in W.Va. and along with Mikie, take a trip to the north country trying to find more and bigger fish. We "discovered" a "Lake X" in Wisc. that , under a threat of death, we promised not to tell anyone what lake it is. We get to fish this lake 1 or 2 days a year as it's about a 17 hour drive for use to fish it. The lake is small(under 300 acres) and there is no use asking me what lake it is. I'll fish it again this year and I've only seen 1 other boat this lake since we started fishing it 3 years ago. Hooked 1 of the 2 strongest fish I've ever hooked in this lake, never saw it but like Ahab , this is where my Moby Dick lives. Won't ask and won't tell, Mauser | ||
| muskyboy |
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| There are Lake X locations everywhere, some close to home and some you might try once a year. There are even more River X locations that few people ever try. It is best to keep secret lakes and secret spots to yourself, or they won't stay secret for very long. I think it is even more important not to give up specific spots, which happens more and more these days on television and the internet | |||
| Dre322 |
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Posts: 117 | member - 4/6/2007 11:15 PM If you have a lake X in a state that doesn't have many musky fisherman it would be horrible. Take a 50 Acre lake revealed in Tennesee. Now you've got non musky guys throwing husky jerks at them on there 8lb mono. Think about this in depth. I know I killed the first musky I caught on accident to to poor CPR. Fished the lake a week later and saw a fish of the same size floating and I was sad, and then I realized I was the one who killed it and I was pretty sick. Its going to happen eventually here on MF that lakes will be revealed in areas that are not known to have muskies. I just don't like that in no circumstance could certain info be pulled off. I think there should be some limitation to this and I think others may feel the same way. When contributing daily to MF and making this site great we could be supporting a site that will eventually reveal our Lake X and be the downfall of a lake so dear to us. This is something I'm not willing to do. It's just not worth it. As I said a lake NO ONE FISHES FOR MUSKY! This is a AWESOME point.. i would hte to see thast too...done that to a ton of bass due to my mistake | ||
| Guest |
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| There is huge difference between someone letting the cat out of the bag and moderators allowing a post that names a lake on the internet off the pirated GPS coorinates from a fricken TV show. Come on where in the world are your ethics. Also I seem to remember pics on this very site of boats galore on that lake this fall with ice forming. You can't justify that and you know it. | |||
| lambeau |
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pirated GPS coorinates from a fricken TV show. Come on where in the world are your ethics. Also I seem to remember pics on this very site of boats galore on that lake this fall with ice forming. You can't justify that and you know it. ethics? what's the ethical dilemma? it's dumb to rehash that old issue, i never should have brought it up in the first place...too many lurkers waiting to scream and rant about other people's "ethics". funny. notably, i'm happy to discuss my ethics with my name signed to the bottom of every post - are you? log-in, click my screen name and you get access to my email. feel free to use it. it's a well-known muskie lake in a huge urban area. if you've lived in the area like i have you could recognize it from the shoreline/cars without the gps data anyway. people are definitely not driving hundreds of miles to fish that lake, so the info is relevant mostly to locals who don't need the gps data to recognize the lake in the first place. plus the information is spread among a niche' group of fishermen who almost exclusively practice CPR. boats galore? i seem to recall a couple pictures this year of a couple boats fishing during the day who i think might have caught a fish which was definitely released. possibly the same lake, but not anything unusual pressure-wise for that time of year. hardly hordes of pillaging muskie killers out there wrecking the lake. let's keep reality a part of the conversation, ok? people really do get wrapped around the axle on this stuff, don't they? this isn't an issue of ethics, it's an issue of fear. people are afraid that someone else is going to show up and ruin their favorite fishing hole by fishing on it. when people act/talk/post out of fear, they tend to generalize and exaggerate in "doomsday" manners. in my opinion, it's an irrational fear. i'm not saying it's not a real feeling, just that the fear isn't based on the objective truth of what happens when a lake gets "outed". the truth of things is usually that little or nothing will change and if it does the impact is significantly less than feared. easy availability of information, high mobility, and increased savvy are reality for the modern serious muskie fisherman. so are safe fish handling habits, catch and release, and a dedication to improving the resource. as Mike Hulbert said: adapt! | |||
| muskyme |
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Posts: 324 Location: Bloomington, Illinois | Very nicely said!!! matt | ||
| chico |
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Posts: 502 Location: Lincoln UK | Guest has it spot on, far too many instant esox anglers without telling them exactly where to go, jeez it will be handing rods to people next with a hooked fish on it. Esox thrive on neglect not pressure and if someone puts in the work to find the fish for themselves then thats fair enough, hordes descending on a small water will screw the fishery totally. Sure you almost don't mind when it's a water that seems to have nothing to do with you but when it's your water and it's hammered to death it might just hit home. Naming waters is very much frowned on over here, we have small waters and we have learned the hard waywaters get ruined very quickly. The post was bad enough but to condone it shows a definite lack of understanding. | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32885 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Well Chico, here we share information. From your description, I'm glad I live in Wisconsin. Pirated GPS coordinates? How are the pirated? What a total crock. Get over it, or better yet, if you don't like any of 'your personal information' on Muskie websites, stay off the computer. The entire premise of this argument has absolutely no merit. Get over it, we are NOT going to become Lake X Police. End of story. | ||
| lakesuperiorkid |
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Posts: 52 | Not sure but most fish have a propensity to move throughout the year or feed heavily at times and move to that food so how is a honey hole going to be usurped that much by someone? I've had a few articles published about one or two grand days and you know what? I have never even seen anyone in that place at the sametime ever. This is was also a small body of water. | ||
| Guest |
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| So did [he] name the lake at the beginning of the show, in the middle or at the end? I have the tape BTW. It was discussed and decided to name the lake on posts on this site because someone enhanced the GPS readings and your moderators chose to leave it up after it was posted. That isn't being the Lake X police THAT'S BEING UNETHICAL and IRRESPONSIBLE. You could have cost [him] his credibilty very easily. If it had been a Saric show never would have happened and you know it Steve. You might also want to fill Lambaeu in what can happen when lakes get outed (even huge lakes) There are guys on this board that don't know what can happen. You do. | |||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32885 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If the GPS readings were readable, and the people shooting the video left it that way, it's their issue, not ours. Maybe the shoot shouldn't have occurred there if the place was such a tremendous secret, and you should block any future video, photos, or other mention of that water. Put up a 'no trespassing' sign next time, or complain to them. I don't know which post you are referring to. What's more, i don't care. Lakes being 'outed'? If there are muskies there it'll be out eventually anyway. | ||
| lambeau |
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You might also want to fill Lambeau in what can happen when lakes get outed (even huge lakes) There are guys on this board that don't know what can happen. You do. what...Wabigoon? funny thing is, i know one of the guys who helped scout that lake with Joe Bucher before he started bringing guide clients up. Joe paid all their expenses for 2 weeks, divided the lake into sections and sent each boat to a different area each day to find fish. they came back with fish from all over. let me say that again: they came back _with fish_ from all over. i've seen the pictures of rows of muskies laid out on the grass with everyone smiling. as in dead fish. kept fish. no longer contributing to the population by reproducing fish. the days of lakes being raped in this way are essentially over because the vast majority of fish are being released. take a look at Mille Lacs - incredible pressure on the trophy fish out there, probably beyond what any lake has sustained in history. and yet, it continues to produce. how could that possibly be with so many fishermen out there catching so many fish? 25 plus 50"ers in many single guide boats in just one season? thousands of anglers catching fish? say it with me: catch and release. sure, some fish are kept by the under-informed or under-caring, but it's a different era with a different ethic now and it's proven with different results. mind you, i'm not saying people should put this information out there, especially about those small gem waters that they want to keep quiet. i'm just saying it's not the end of the world like the harbingers of doom make it out to be. | |||
| Yogurt |
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| I think in totality the more people that know about an area the better. For instance, if Lake X is only fished by one secretive musky fisherman, the local area is only affected by his money he spends on gas, food, bait, lures, etc. However, if the knowledge is shared, and because musky fisherman are very responsible and willing to spend money, the local area for Lake X will benefit tremendously. More cash will be poured into the local economy, which is important. It may even leave the door open for stocking in neighboring lakes or into Lake X to help with a new revenue stream and the possibility for clubs, tournments, etc. The addition of these are a win/win in my book This is the perfect example of glass half empty/full scenario. Just my opinion. | |||
| member |
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| Kid, "Not sure but most fish have a propensity to move throughout the year or feed heavily at times and move to that food so how is a honey hole going to be usurped that much by someone" I'm talking about a lake with natural reproduction that you can cover in a day. Like I said i'm talking about lakes less than 100 acres. Yogurt, "I think in totality the more people that know about an area the better. For instance, if Lake X is only fished by one secretive musky fisherman, the local area is only affected by his money he spends on gas, food, bait, lures, etc. However, if the knowledge is shared, and because musky fisherman are very responsible and willing to spend money, the local area for Lake X will benefit tremendously. More cash will be poured into the local economy, which is important. It may even leave the door open for stocking in neighboring lakes or into Lake X to help with a new revenue stream and the possibility for clubs, tournments, etc. The addition of these are a win/win in my book This is the perfect example of glass half empty/full scenario. Just my opinion." Yogurt, no disrespect i'm sure you are a great guy but this is basically the problem with the boards. I think you are right and that it would help the economy a lot, look at Vermillion. How much money does musky fishing bring that Tower? The problem is some people enjoy musky fishing but are not consumed by it, maybe they'll make a trip or two a year which is fine. There's tons of people out there who only fish musky occasionally but read the boards. Diehard posters here you are in the minority. Most Musky fisherman as a whole do not think anything like you. So essentially who do you think has a better idea as to what should be posted and what shouldn't be, the weekend golfer or Tiger Woods? I'm not saying we have any more right to fish a lake or should have any more rights for anything at all, but it's just not right that a person who puts more priority on the well being of economy of the lake being fished as opposed to the fisheryitself is a problem. A person who fishes a 100 acre lake once a year can expose it. Is this their right to do; sure, but I would think that this would be looked down upon and not allowd. Especially when the survival of the species itself depends on natural reproduction. Don't think it would be a big deal to set limit on the lake size to be posted. Anyways no big deal either way, is a lot of this hypothetical; yes. But i'd think setting a minimum lake size for posting could not hurt in any way. Also like I said when it comes to the maintanence of message boards I am the weekend golfer i'll leave it up the experts to decide. They do know much more. Tight lines. I'll let it rest. | |||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32885 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Sorry, but IMHO you are again VERY far off the track here. I submit the vast majority of the folks visiting here think very much alike. Most are conservation minded, and don't need or anyone to decide FOR them what information to which they should or should not have access. That sort of closed minded approach goes strongly against the grain here, and plain isn't going to happen. | ||
| Mikes Extreme |
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Posts: 2691 Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | WOW, looking through this I can see both sides. The lakes in my area get pounded and it's no secret whats in these lakes. I guess I am a very bad person because I like to promote these lakes and welcome anyone to fish here. I believe the more presure a lake gets the more money for everyone around the lakes. Bait shops, Bars, gas stations, hotels, restrants and even guides. This is a catch and release sport by almost all muskie fishermen. I don't understand why some get so pissed off at others who post reports. Look at some of the IN lakes. Its so well known about the 7 muskies per acre and the lakes are small and pounded. Still they are full of fishermen and lots of fish are caught. Lots of money is being spent all around the lakes by fishermen. So why is Vince getting crap for his reports and Mike is doing all kinds of seminars and articals. Both are promoting their lakes big time. Don't see a problem with that. You still got to beable to catch the fish when you on the water. One thing I noticed with increased presure on my local lakes is you have to be able to addapt to the changing conditions. One example is when the 4th of July comes and the crowds of people all are on the lake for a few days the fish start to leave the weeds and roam the flats. You can't believe all the boats that come from everywhere. Weeds floating everywhere from all the props chewing up the weeds. Time to target deeper weeds or troll. Small lakes can get hurt by the internet some but the larger lakes can handle it. Take Millie Lac's for example like Mike posted earler. That pond just keeps getting better and Vermillion is getting pounded also. I am all for helping other fishermen in anyway I can. Heck, everyone is releasing the fish anyway. With the exception of the very small unknown lakes I can't see posting reports as bad. I know a ton of great lakes I could hit now but I can't work them into my schedule. Webster was rocking when I went to Kinkaid. I just wanted to try Kinkaid, then Shelbyville. Great trip. | ||
| Jason Bomber |
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Posts: 574 | I don't know about most people here, but if I heard something about a 95 acre lake. I wouldn't waste my time. Why would I want to drive 5 hours to get somewhere when I can fish the whole lake in 2 hours? | ||
| bn |
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| here is what a lake x to me is...a lake that gets very little pressure right now, and has zero stocking...can this lake handle increased pressure and some people taking fish out...no! now a Webster that gets stocked at what, 6 fish per acre is never going to be a lake x...even in the early 00s i was out there fishing it too...but c'mon..that is no lake x...but in northern wi and maybe some waters of canada, and mn, where there are some lakes that have little or no public access, and no stocking..those lakes in my opinion are the kind that guys fishing them should try to keep quiet...it only takes one guy to go out there and keep a bunch of big muskies to mess up a lake...but is it M1sts job to police posts with such lakes named..no, that is up to the users to respect and realize those lakes can be hurt very easily... a lot of us have some lake x's and maybe some snicker and smirk at us for it...but it is part of the fun of chasing these fish to "think" we have a lake that is some sort of gem to us...just part of the fun of this sport... | |||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32885 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | bn, exactly. | ||
| Pointerpride102 |
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Posts: 16632 Location: The desert | There is a <100 acre lake in Tennessee that has giant muskies in it? I'm starting a fan bus to drive everyone from WI, Ill, IN, KY and anyone who can drive down from MN to meet in Central WI just so we can all go fish this new gem. Come on, be real member no one is going to just drop what they are doing and fish this lake to death. Plus if, and I mean IF this lake x was discovered and people flocked to it, as long as CPR is practiced the majority of the time the lake will not suffer much, you just might have to work a bit harder for a fish. If there was no CPR then there would be a reason to gripe. A little lake by my dad's lodge was discovered by two locals who came and fished out the entire walleye population. Gone. Why? There was a decent market for walleyes at the time, but when they got them to town no one wanted to buy them. The majority were wasted. Is this going to happen to your lake x? Doubt it. No need for such worry. | ||
| lakesuperiorkid |
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Posts: 52 | Member, Not sure by what you mean by several things. Most of the guys here are about the same in their overall perspective on things. You know they do make maps of everything right now, they have images of ice on the Great Lakes if you want them and just about everything else so what is that private or secret anymore. I can see one of your points and really this is all left up to the individual person to make a decision one way or the other. There's truly some shysters around who might take advanatage of a situation like this. I gave telling and informing people past "get a map" anymore and no more photos whatsoever on forums. That's not because I am hiding the fish but I certainly did not like the situation when it appeared on a website with someone else's name on it either. Maybe the right word is not "rights" then but a sense of responsibility we acquire for appreciating what the natural world has been to us and then acting in the same for it, our gift of selflessness to it. (Did I spell that right?) | ||
| fish4musky1 |
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Location: Northern Wisconsin | if some one mentions your lake z maybe pm them and tell them what you think and maybe they will listen. | ||
| curleytail |
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Posts: 2687 Location: Hayward, WI | I haven't taken the time to read all the replies to this topic, so what I am going to say may have already been said. For one thing, I don't think too many people get on forums like this and brag about 300 acre honey holes. Also, why does a lake have to be small to be a lake X? There might be no correlation here, but why wouldn't Mille lacs be a lake X? If people had kept it a secret when they first started to figure out the musky fishing was awesome, people wouldn't be lining up to fish a weedline. Word got out, and from what I hear it gets POUNDED. Should any discussion of Mille Lacs been prohibited on online forums? curleytail | ||
| lakesuperiorkid |
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Posts: 52 | What is still incredibly odd about this Minnesota hysteria is that the celebrities who were largely responsible for it continued right along with it and judged Wisconsin has being a state without big fish, when in fact they were fishing over Wisconsin-source fish to begin with. We do thank them for all of it as well. Word always seems to get out in the age of information we are in now. Too bad in other ways, but nothing will be that private or secluded anymore. If someone said Mill Lacs I'd still need a map and directions until I got a handle on the lake. That's like saying there is big pike in Lake Superior, which there are, and well go and find one of them then. Good luck. Where exactly, well, get a map. I'm really not reading any exact locations or just how or what this GPS thing is about either. Who needs it when you have maps and locators that do everything but a poka? | ||
| Ranger |
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Posts: 3864 | Behaviors, i.e., "to share or not to share info on Lake X" are based on values, i.e., "I feel a duty to protect fragile lakes". You can't legislate values on others. Discussion, debate, and maybe even conflict are healthy as long as folks get to go back to their corners and do what they want within the law. Wanna talk about little Lake X, go right ahead. Gonna not talk about Lake Y, go right ahead with that one, too. I lived on a 80 acre lake when a guy speared 5 pike between 40" and 44" in a single weekend. I was mad as hell, but he was within the law. I tracked the guy down (found he worked at a local marina) and explained how we need big robust females to restock the lake, passing on the desirable genetics, and about so-many-fish-per-acre ideas. I shared my best techniques to catch nice pike from spring to late fall. I emphasized that all the nice pike I boated were released. I was polite and respectful. I didn't tell him it was his ethical duty to do diddly. He listened and we parted ways. You can't legislate values on others. At best, you can try to educate them and hope they see things from your point of view. | ||
| Dre322 |
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Posts: 117 | Ranger - 4/8/2007 6:20 AM Behaviors, i.e., "to share or not to share info on Lake X" are based on values, i.e., "I feel a duty to protect fragile lakes". You can't legislate values on others. Discussion, debate, and maybe even conflict are healthy as long as folks get to go back to their corners and do what they want within the law. Wanna talk about little Lake X, go right ahead. Gonna not talk about Lake Y, go right ahead with that one, too. I lived on a 80 acre lake when a guy speared 5 pike between 40" and 44" in a single weekend. I was mad as hell, but he was within the law. I tracked the guy down (found he worked at a local marina) and explained how we need big robust females to restock the lake, passing on the desirable genetics, and about so-many-fish-per-acre ideas. I shared my best techniques to catch nice pike from spring to late fall. I emphasized that all the nice pike I boated were released. I was polite and respectful. I didn't tell him it was his ethical duty to do diddly. He listened and we parted ways. You can't legislate values on others. At best, you can try to educate them and hope they see things from your point of view. Nicely said...good POV. | ||
| Ranger |
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Posts: 3864 | Aw shucks. | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32885 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Ranger, good post. | ||
| KARLOUTDOORS |
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Posts: 956 Location: Home of the 2016 World Series Champion Cubs | Member, Agreed, as the saying goes "mortality" happens. BUT since you caught that first muskie and have become a muskie angler I would guess that you have begun to educate yourself and have likely contributed in more than one positive way to the fishery as a whole which benefits not on the muskie but the bass as well. WIN-WIN the way I see it. Merely debate I understand. Good luck this season. Karl | ||
| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8777 | I think the lesson to be learned here is a very simple one: This is a public forum. Information you post here is viewable by anyone who finds their way to the site, be they die hard catch and release musky elitist, or be they of the kill it and grill it mentality. EVERYONE who fishes, dreams of a secret little lake tht nobody fishes with lots of big unconditioned fish. What it comes down to is this: If you are one of the lucky people that knows of such a place? It would probably not be in your best interest to disclose its location in a public forum dedicated to muskie fishing. Lots of us have been burned by people we thought we could trust, its a lesson you learn the first time. Would I be upset of someone posted a bunch of information on my "Lake X"? I'd by lying if I said no, but unless I own the lake myself I hve no more right to it than anyone else. Would I expect Muskiefirst to pull posts containing lake sensitive information? Of course not, this site is about SHARING information. I would hope, however, that people with information to share might think about the possiblility that that information will probably be viewed by people who I might not be glad to see on the water. | ||
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