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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | therealquestion - 3/18/2007 8:03 PM
Would it bother you if they read a passage from the Koran?
Nope. Not one bit. Might not be my religion and I might not agree with what they say but if that is what they want to quote, go ahead. I can change the channel if I dont like it.
IA, where can I pick up that book you are talking about, I have heard from others it is real good. I think it would be a great read during the summer in Utah. |
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Posts: 51
Location: Aitkin, Blaine, Minnesota | I think it's great that the Linder's took a stand. I am sure they considered the pros and cons of including the message. We christians are all called upon to share our faith or bear witnesses for God's glory. Lidners actually did it! At great risk to their Professional/ Business lives. Good for them. I used turn their shows off as I dont find seeing walleyes and smallies caught as blood pumping entertainment, since the muskie bug hit. Now, they get my support and talk about the message/ delivery quite often.
Right, Wrong, or Indifferent, is there a more important topic to discuss than this? I think not.
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Posts: 24
| I enjoy the closing message very much. When I am in nature, I feel closer to God and the wonder of what he created than at any other time. When Primedia purchased the In-fisherman, and removed Al's closing message, I for one was disappointed.
Now, if this was a reading from any other religion... Would the spiritual message offend me? No... I guess I don't get why people take offense to something like this. Al is always talking in a positive manner, and I for one enjoy his message.
All the best, |
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Posts: 143
| despite my thoughts on religon, etc. i don't find it offensive. it's thier show, they do what they wish with it. will i change the channel? who knows. probably not, that would be about the time i hit 'guide' to see what else is on anyway, so i wouldn't be paying much attention. if it gives them and others satisfaction, great, more power to ya. i feel criticizing/debating will get you nowhere good fast.
edit: pointerpride, where you going to be in utah?
Edited by butterwheels 3/18/2007 10:02 PM
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Posts: 724
Location: Southern W.Va. | I like the show , they are probably one of my favorite shows. I liked it better as In-Fisherman, without the message at the end. I fish to have fun, catch fish, and maybe in my own way, get closer to the man up-stairs. I think that most , but not all , people who preach religion on TV, are in for the cash , like Jerry Farwell, Jimmy Swarget and the like. I just change the channel when this part of the show comes on. Watch it if you want, I won't.
Mauser |
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| Angling Edge is an outstanding fishing show and the ending messages are meant to help you in life. It is bible thumping but they have a right to do that on their own show. Simply turn it off or buy their DVDs instead if you don't like it. |
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Posts: 2015
| Pointer,
Most book stores should have it. Its only 125 pages long ..you wont put it down - only takes 2-3 hours to read
http://www.amazon.com/First-Light-Water-Al-Lindner/dp/1932458026 |
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Posts: 20218
Location: oswego, il | Even when the Lindners were on in fisherman they had something at the end of that show. It is a free country and every tv has lots of options. |
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Posts: 62
Location: Wisconsin Rapids, WI | WOW! Thirty-seven replies in five hours on this topic. Must be something to it.
It's unfortunate that the Linders have been compared to Jimmy Swaggert because of a short, humble commentary at the end of their show. To say they are in it for the money is simply wrong. When they owned In-Fisherman, they turned down big-spending advertisers (United States Tobacco Company and others) for ethical reasons. They have credibility that others don't. They walk the walk and are deserving of nothing but respect from all of us. Ron's conversion story is on their website and worth a look: http://anglingedge.com/pages/tract2.shtml |
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Location: New Prague MN | It doesn't seem to me like the place for it, but If they want to use it as their forum to get their point across, i guess it it their choice. I just wonder if it was some other religion whether it would be recieved the same way. |
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| I don't really care for it. Obviously, they have the right and/or finincial ability to communicate THEIR beliefs on THEIR show, and I have the right to change the channel. Just like the (imaginary) seperation of church and state, I wish they could keep the fishing separate as well. You don't have to be a Christian to be a good person. |
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| I've read the book, and it is a good, short read. It explains much of what is being discussed. How Christ influenced decisions in their lives, both businesswise and otherwise.
Yes, they beat the heck out of the Rapala drum, but that's who pays their bills.
They do fish muskies, when you can get James and my buddy Dan in the boat. Drop them an e-mail like I did. Tell them...MORE MUSKIES!
Personally, I admire them. I say a prayer at the beginning of every fishing trip that all stay safe and that I let go and let God be my guide for the day....he gets $250/half day  I always say it to myself. I don't have the guts to tell whoever I am fishing with, "Hold on. Let's pray first." I do it with my daughter, why not with my friends?
How would it make you feel if we launched the boat and I said, "Hold on, let's say a little prayer first." I know that I would feel uncomfortable saying it, and I'm sure many would say, "Go ahead, I have to take a leak."
I think seeing guys like Al and Ron Lindner taking the time, and giving all the credit as they do in their book, to the one who makes it all possible, makes me feel that I am lacking by not taking the time to offer thanks and ask for guidance. I do give all the credit to God for every fish that I catch. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'll admit that I never had an original thought in my life. All that I think is put there by God.
Did you see what Ron has on the mantle of his fireplace? In big letters, almost like an altar. What better place to relax every day but in front of a nice warm fireplace? And right there he has enscribed..."Be still, and know that I am God."
That voice in your head? God
That "feeling" to change spots for no apparent reason? God
That fish that I caught on a cast that was blown 10 feet off-target by the wind? God
Pointer Pride. Send me your address, I'll send you the book. Guys who want to read it....add your requests. Let's send it around and all add a comment and send it on. You can give it back to me at The Hideouting.
I didn't know what to expect when I posted this, but it seems that they are doing what they intended to. They're spreading the word and it seems to be getting around.
I wish they would read this post and add something of their own. |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Steve Worrall mentioned something that I think would be VERY interesting. What IF there were people out there that quoted other religious writings, and how that has helped them and potentially could help you if you choose... I
would be intrigued since there are quite a few parallels between the different religions out there, and all are doing basically the same in believing in a higher power, and having faith in what many consider the unknown. I could care less what religious sect something comes from as long as the information is used in a manner that they find works for them. I appreciate being able to know and understand those kinds of things.
Being an educator, I guess that comes with the territory...knowing all sides, accepting and respecting all for what it really is.
Steve |
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Posts: 79
Location: michigan | I thank God for the Linders stand. As most felt its refreshing, I would agree. As most, I was on the other side of life that cared only for my desires. This lead me into Alcoholism, and drug usage. Typical high school stuff that starts out as binge drinking at partys in friend basements, then leads to more and more addictions. My longing in life at the time was to get to the age of 21 so I could buy my own alcohol. When I was 20 just about to turn 21 I had an experiance with the Lord and I never turned back. I have not drink, or smoke dope since and that was 17 years ago. I found that my relationship with Jesus is the most important thing to me now, and everything else falls into place.Folks like the Linder, I don't see as religous. They are commited thier relationship with the Lord is improtant enough to them to stand for Him with thier fishing show. Going to church or having a cross around your neck does not make you a christian. Its your Faith in Jesus and what he did at the cross that will set anyone free. I have to trust in Him everyday 24/7. Like I say i've been a christian for about 17 years. And I go to the Lord to ask for forgiveness everyday. Because I still live in a sin hungry covering called flesh. I don't struggle with the drink/drugs anymore, but the hatered, foul mouth talking, anger, lust, you name it if my flesh desires it, usally I fall for it. I'm glad to see their are many christian anglers out there. No matter if your a christian or not I still would stretch out a helpful hand, I would fish with you and enjoy the day. Thats the beautiful thing about fishing. We have a common bond.
Just my 2 cents worth.
God Bless
Jim |
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| here in Minn I would rather pray to the DNR,,,they have created more muskie lakes then god did  |
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Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Who do you think gave them them or whomever motivated them the drive and the means to do so in the BIG PICTURE?
Steve
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Posts: 3147
| the commisoner,,he signs the checks |
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| The day I get offended by someone professing their faith in public is the day I need to re-evaluate what I stand for. Personally, I'm not a very religious guy, more of a closet-christian I guess. Kind of keep my beliefs to myself for fear of being thought of as a nutcase. (Yes, I know, let the light shine, right?) Anyway, I agree with what others have said about being on the water, being out in the woods, etc. Those are the places I feel closer to God, and it is a part of my fishing experience. As for the LInders? That takes great faith, and great confidence. I have nothing but admiration for them. And it doesn't matter to me what religion it is, or if someone is quoting verses from the Quran, Torah, or any other religious book -- stripped down to the fundamentals, all religions are the same. Worship and repsect the higher power (whatever you call it), have faith, and treat your fellow human beings with love and respect. What could be wrong with that? |
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Posts: 5874
| This is a pretty interesting thread, and I'm glad it has stayed in the general forum. I'm no saint, as everybody probably has figured out by now. But I do believe in God, and I do believe Jesus gave his life to save mine. I'm not a Sunday-go-to-church and sing all the songs loudly type, but I find it striking that somebody would actually say they are OFFENDED by the message the Lindners convey at the end of the Edge. Really offended? Or are you just not receptive to the message, and just don't care to listen to it. I'm asking if you are really, truly offended, meaning it makes you angry, and start to shake with that anger. And, are they really pushing this on you? My take is they read a passage, and try to explain how they feel about it.
If you knew Ron Lindner before he accepted Christ into his life, you would also know that he most likely would not be alive today. He was headed down the road to certain self destruction, and death. He truly was saved, and I think the reality of this also had a dramatic affect on AL.
As for shameless self promotion? You're kidding, right? Name one single fishing show out there that does not promote it's sponsors products. I bet you can't. At least they are honest about it, and don't lie about it like some personalities do. The Lindners have had most of these sponsors, and used those products for as long as they've been around. Sure, they get paid well to represent those products, but they also believe in and use what they promote. If they didn't, you would see them with a different boat, motor, rod, reel, tackle, and etc sponsors every year or so.
As for separation of church and state? Read the constitution, and The Bill of Rights, and understand what it really means. You may be surprised what our founding fathers meant.
OK, Beav. Sign me up for the book. I'm ready to read it.
Edited by Shep 3/19/2007 9:49 AM
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | was raised in faith without conviction for many years, then a chain-reaction of events hit me and i found myself in a place called "dispair" ... it's a very real place and is the work of the "other" side of this debate. my personal war with God happened over a period of a couple years and the most significant times were alone on the water ... he sent an army of strangers i now call friends to help me out of the pit just because i asked. if your life is going great, be thankful because if you ever get introduced to the bottom you'll understand the message sent by the Lindner's, why it's so important to them to send their message and some people's lives may be changed by it. i'm not an avid watcher of the show, but it takes more strength to do what they do than to not do it and for that i respect them.
jesus (the western vernacular) or yeshua (remember, he was a jewish guy) was a very real person who lived and walked on this earth doing great things for humanity ... he as a person is a historical reality ... whether or not he was divine and has a part in your life is a choice you make personally. and remember, he was criticized a million times a million times more in his day than the Lindners are for their beliefs and finally died for them for those that believe. he was once cast out by the "church" for spending time with prostitutes, tax collectors and criminals ... his response was that he needed to be with those who needed him. he lives in more places than the church to lots of people and people who show the light in their lives are doing his will. so, whether the Linder's are professing their faith and thanks for it or somebody is just being kind to you ... the same message is being sent.
a close friend of mine who found the bottom ahead of me under similar circumstances put a gun in his mouth. where were his strangers that he needed but didn't want? it's sometimes scary to say that i understand what he did and why he did it but also learned the difference that people can make in someones life by reaching out..
i don't think life is random ...
Edited by jonnysled 3/19/2007 9:52 AM
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| PM me your address, and we can start passing it around. Seriously, you can read it in less than an hour.
Shep you are dead-on about Ron, and he'll talk to you about it.
I'm also a recovering alcoholic...it'll be 16 years on March 22nd....and I know first hand what it means to put down a bottle and pick up a book, and the balls it takes to walk into an AA meeting for the first time. I'm sure that there are more of us out there too.
As far as the product pushing, you're right. They have had the same sponsors forever. When you read the book you'll find out that they turned down other sponsors because of what they sold. You won't find many people anywhere who will do that. Al even closes the show by thanking his sponsors and asks that if you like what you see, to please patronize them or let them know that you like the show. That doesn't seem like hard sell to me.
So, I'll send the book to Shep. Anyone else who wants it, PM Shep when he's done......and so on and so on. Sign it, add a note or whatever. I can get it back at the Hideouting, but if it's still going, then we'll keep it going.
Beav |
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Posts: 291
Location: Minneapolis | Shep - 3/19/2007 10:48 AM
... but I find it striking that somebody would actually say they are OFFENDED by the message the Lindners convey at the end of the Edge. Really offended? Or are you just not receptive to the message, and just don't care to listen to it.
I'm not OFFENDED, but I don't like it. I would have a similar distaste if it were a quote from some other religion. Basically, my religion is MY religion, and I won't try to force it on someone else. Likewise, I don't like someone else's religion forced on me. |
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Location: McFarland, WI | I too am with you on this Beav. I have met Al on the waters edge a couple times and he is a genuine good guy and a great disciple. Lord knows I need the frequent reminders. |
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If being religous helps make the Lindners who they are, than more power to them.
They obviously are proud of thier beliefs, and are comfortable enough to put them in thier show despite criticism.
How can you not repsect that of someone no matter if you are into what they are saying or not?
The Lindners are some of the most genuine fishermen in the world, if you don't think they absolutely love what they do, and are thankfull that they get to do it, than you are missing a big part of thier show.
JS |
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Posts: 1245
Location: Madtown, WI | Its funny how people don't want to listen to a 2 minute blurb on a possitive message...but will listen to how many un-Godly messages on the radio and TV....
There is a difference between "religion" and Christianity....the Religion some folks preach on TV has turned a TON of people off....but there is a great difference between that and what the Real message is....Seak and you shall find.
I too use to gringe as a knee jerk reaction to "religion".....but get through the junk to the real message and the picture is a little different.
I think the Linders do a GREAT job with their segement....for crying out loud, how bad can a possitive message make you feel??
My cousin actually QUOTED Al when he replied to me on an issue he was facing......
" That night, I flipped on the Outdoor Channel and Al Lindner was finishing up his show, and said in life when it seems like he doesn’t know where things are going-especially when he was selling In-Fisherman, but didn’t know where he was headed, he leaned on this scripture.
“ But forget all of that. It is nothing compared to what I am going to do. For I am about to do something new. See, I have already begun. Do you not see it. I will make a pathway through the wilderness. I will create rivers in the dry wasteland. Isa 43"
Now how can this be offensive....and not a good fit in the fishing industry?? Beats me...
Cory
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Location: Germantown, WI | Beav,
I appreciate the Linders both for the kind of people they are and for what they've done for the sport. I like the short segment at the end of each show. Anyone who knows their personal stories also knows that they don't come from a "holier than thou" point of view. I appreciate that they don't try to put anyone down, but simply share personal insights and lessons learned in their own faith journeys. It's cool that they have gotten the backing of their sponsors to share their faith on air. If it helps you great. If not then take it for what it's worth.
Tom |
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Posts: 1310
Location: Washington, PA | I watch the show, i've been watching those guys since the days that most my age were watching cartoons. Love the show. That being said, I could do without the christian talk, but it doesn't bother me either. I think I just have to many preachers in my family. |
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Posts: 1936
Location: Eau Claire, WI | Amen, to two replies, Shep's and Painters... I could not state my thoughts any better.
As far as respect for those in the lime-light. No one has earned more respect than Ron, Al, and their group. Professional at every level, and always with a smile. No huge egos, just good fishing advice from people who are sincere and have been fortunate enough to make a living in the sport we all enjoy.
Read, "First light on the Water", I often open it up to read. Read it with and open mind or a closed one, if nothing else it will help expain to you why so many of us find comfort in our faith.
When life hands you a pile of poo... and I mean a big pile, one you need help trying to understand and cope with, I hope you too may find peace in scripture, any scripture of your choice that gives you hope, faith, and strength. For me, it is the very same words that the Lindner's have found comfort in, and quite frankly, I enjoy hearing how it has helped them in life in the short 30 second blurb at the end of their show.
God's Peace |
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| Find it interesting really myself.
Good end to a good show, only a minute or so.
Honest, friendly, cheerful.
I like it and Al an Ron seem really happy about doing it, so why not.
No harm in changing channel or mute if you don't.
Not everything is for everybody.
Cool to see lots of different musky fisher people type talking friendly about same deal an with some humor also.
Sometimes topics like this can start WARS!
Way I see things is pretty simple being brought up in two difffernet churches.
Big guy knows where I am, can come get me any time if I'm needed.
POOF!!! Here one minute gone the next.
Life to me is a test for what is to come next maybe?
I don't really know for sure, but thinking like that makes me feel good as I can ask the guy in charge what it was all about soon enough.
Do more good than bad while I'm around on this side.
So I figure I'm ok to get a free ride to the other side an hang with some cool family / people got there before me.
God knows by living the way I do or have that I for sure have done enough on my own to try an leave here early to get into what ever NEXT is?
Long list, but I'm still alive an well.
Why?
Have to ask him when I see him.
Mean time I just enjoy it all.
T.
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Posts: 484
Location: St. Louis, MO., Marco Is., FL, Nestor Falls, ON | Mat 10:33
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
The Lindners went through a life changing experience years ago that resulted in major changes in their lives. If you believe the words found in Matthew, and the Lindners do, then the ending of their show naturally follows those beliefs. I have never seen the Lindners ram anything down anyone's throat. They just lay it out there for you to do what you want with it. Let's say you have something that would save people's lives and it was free. It would be morally irresponsible not to share it with others. That's what the Lindners' faith morally obligates them to do. That's what being a Christian is all about. |
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