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Posts: 305
Location: Illinois | By default it's quantity. I am just not seeing huge fish on my local waters. Some really big fish have been caught by others, but not in big numbers. I am fishing a few events of the PMTT this year so numbers I guess as the events I'm fishing are not known for monster fish. Quality to me means a 45 incher, which is not a trophy to many. I will say that anytime I get bit, by any musky, I love it. I will never pull my bait away from a 35 incher because it's too small. |
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Posts: 171
| I haven't caught enough to be picky......any musky.
Erieboy75 |
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Posts: 108
Location: IN | To me the progressions of a musky fisherman are alot like the five stages of hunter development. I think it's safe to assume that all musky fisherman want more AND bigger fish. All of us try to make the most out of our time on the water. The amount of time and experience we have can really dictate our view on what's more productive, quality or quantity. |
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Posts: 2024
| In my opinion, Muskie_Man, if you are raising 30" fish on certain structure, the bigger fish are around and will be just as aggressive. Hit similar areas where you found the smaller fish and you will probably bump into something a bit bigger. You will certainly learn more by fishing more spots. IMO, you don't learn much from a fish that small. They are already at a disadvantage being so small, so they tend to be more aggressive. I would rather catch one 48" ALL SEASON than one hundred 30"ers. To me, gambling for the bigger fish and learning a new spot or two versus returning to catch small fish is more valuable. |
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Posts: 1237
Location: South Portsmouth, KY | esox50 - 1/22/2007 9:46 PM
In my opinion, Muskie_Man, if you are raising 30" fish on certain structure, the bigger fish are around and will be just as aggressive. Hit similar areas where you found the smaller fish and you will probably bump into something a bit bigger. You will certainly learn more by fishing more spots. IMO, you don't learn much from a fish that small. They are already at a disadvantage being so small, so they tend to be more aggressive. I would rather catch one 48" ALL SEASON than one hundred 30"ers. To me, gambling for the bigger fish and learning a new spot or two versus returning to catch small fish is more valuable.
Well, i agree with you to a point. Im talkin about if ya fished hard all day and seen noting but a couple of small ones and you got less than 30 min or so before dark. Then yea i would go back if its close and hit them just to try to get a shot and salvage the day somewhat. |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | This question will get many answers from people all over the muskie world. Lots of people fish waters where they don't get a shot at a 48 to 50-something every time out or every weekend. Some lakes just don't have the larger fish in huge numbers. Every lake has its hot spots that kick out fish, most of those will have smaller fish in general because the smaller fish will be more aggressive. Does that mean it would not hold a big girl at prime time?
I have trophy spots all over the lakes I fish. These spots are spots on the spots. I will make that run through those spots and past them. Big fish can be anywhere.
Take Cave Run for example. Lots of small fish but some real hawgs will come from the same spots. What would you call those spots? Trophy spots or numbers spots?
How about Millie Lac's. I have not seen a fish under 37-inches come out of that pond. Most fish are in the low to mid 40's to 48-inches on average. Quality is 50-inches to ?
Now lets take LOW. Huge fish there and numbers spots everywhere. This is where I would say you can pick trophy spots over numbers spots. The first few days I woud make a milk run of lots of spots and try to pattern some large fish. Then I would concentrate on those big fish for the remainder of my trip. I want big fish if I am on trophy waters. Numbers are nice while your patterning fish, quality is best when your on a pattern.
Good, honest answers are hard to come by by posters. Everyone wants to be the big fish guy. My personal best of two(46lb & 52lb) monsters in two days will be very hard for me to beat. If I am on trophy waters at prime time I will be all over big fish spots only. But around here I fish for muskies, lots of muskies, and catch some trophys along the way.
A muskie caught on a tough lake is good, a trophy caught on a tough lake is great. A trophy fish may be 45 to 48-inchers on some lakes, 48 to 52-inches on some others and 52 to 60-inches on trophy waters. The "trophy fish" term or "quality" is different for everyone. Once you have some quality fish under your belt the bar seems to get higher. I still believe that a 45-inch muskies is a great catch and I hope I always will.
I like this tread, good stuff to keep everyone reading...........................Post away, I am soooooo read for the new 2007 season to get here!!!! |
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Posts: 2865
Location: Brookfield, WI | This year I hope to land a large quality of quantity fish.
Kevin
Homemade pizza all winter long. |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | A LARGE quantity of QUALITY fish!!!
You and me Kevin. |
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| I am after quality muskies and that varies tremendously depending on where you are fishing.
It is very true that every musky is a good musky and we are blessed to have the opportunity to fish for them  |
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Posts: 32930
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Let's say I'm at Sioux Narrows. I know there are several reefs there that hold a big fish or two, so I fish them at least three times a day. I also fish the surrounding area, hoping to contact the fish if it's moved off the reef for some reason. I catch quite a few smaller fish doing this. Am I 'targeting' big fish? Not really, I'm fishing areas I saw big fish, but not exclusively or I would never find OTHER big fish or properly eliminate water and patterns for the conditions. I also do allot of 'rule breaking', and fish in places that are not exactly traditional big fish spots.
If, however, I am on the Goon and have a full day milk run going because of spotting several in the trophy class, I AM targeting big fish and pretty much live on them until one or more decides to go. I catch lots of smaller fish doing that as well, but am at that point looking for a big girl and near beating the area to death in the process. I'm still delighted to net a 35" fish, I'm just plain never immune to being excited about boating a muskie of any size.
I use small baits on Sioux Narrows quite a bit and do well there with them, including a few in the 48" class. Cranks banging the round rock deep edges of reefs are productive. Same at Sabaskong Bay. On the Goon, I may use a 5" Violent Strike because the fish is in less than 2' and I don't want to drop a bomb in there. Am I looking for big or little fish when using a 5" Slammer? Both.
Mike and Hopeful said it very well. |
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Posts: 785
| So i guess that i am on the fence. In Ky yea i would go back on smaller fish, but up north like in canada then no i probably wouldent go back on smaller fish.
Being in Iowa I have a similar situation in that on many of the lakes I fish I will return to spots I raised 35-40" fish. In these lakes I often times will raise three or four fish in 50 yards of shorline so if a fish is located I can assume other fish will be there also along with a big boy. For the most part however I am actually hoping to catch the fish I raised earlier becouse the big ones can be a bit tough to come by at times when in Iowa (but many 50"ers do swim in the state). On Mille Lacs (for example) however I fish big fish spots and when I return to spots I seen smaller muskies on earlier its not to catch that fish but the bigger one using the spot. I have seen 28" follows and 50" follows come 10 casts appart on that lake proving there just good spots for all muskies. While I love all muskies I will agree that I would take one 48"er over a hundred 30"ers over the course of the season... ...but I'd rather have BOTH! |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Have you ever noticed that when you see or locate a big quality fish that its much harder to get this same fish to eat than a smaller fish?
Does that mean that the bigger fish are "Smarter" or more conditioned?
Last yr. for example I found 3 huge fish that I went back to and tried everything, they followed a few times but just wouldn't hit .
I enjoy catching numbers as much as the next guy........BUT........those Tankers that swim free out there are what really gets me high!!
Jerome
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Posts: 1536
Location: God's Country......USA..... Western Wisconsin | Fished for these critters in Western Wisconsin for most of my life. Deer Lake and Bone Lake mostly. While there are some big fish in these waters they are few and far inbetween. I have caught a lot of Muskies from these waters and I would now prefer to fish for QUALITY rather than Quantity. Sheer numbers of fish is great fun but I need some big girls this year....... |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | My personal belief is that bigger fish consume more food at one feeding opportunity and therefore don't need to feed as often as smaller more hyper active fish. They also have the capability of consuming a much larger sized meal at once and can therefore eat a larger range of prey. More food options means less need to take advantage of everything edible that swims by. Just my two cents.
Edited by Musky Snax 1/23/2007 5:24 PM
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Posts: 7
Location: 1000 Islands region, St. Lawrence river | Here on the St. Lawrence we fish for quantity. Although we are fishing for quantity, quality usually comes with it.
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| I'm looking for the biggest fish in the lake and if I have to catch a bunch of less than biggest that's fine with me. Put me down for both. |
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Posts: 1636
| When I fish for bass and catch smaller fish I don't mind it at all. Those big fish will come. And when your targeting the bigger fish, the small fish will still be there. So either way your catching fish small and big. If it played out the way some want it, and thats to only catch big fish, your not going to be doing a whole lot of catching. (depending on which waters you are fishing)
With muskies, I can't recall a time where the bigger fish were in different areas as the smaller fish. Not even in Canada. I have limited experience fishing northern waters though. Maybe I'm just not paying attention to where the big fish are vs where the small fish are because I do not know the answer when I first get on the water. After you put in the time and put your head to work you will either catch a big fish, catch a small fish, catch a big fish and a small fish, catch a bunch of small fish, bunch of big fish, or a bunch of big and small fish... you had a successful day. I don't think anyone can go into the day and think they are targeting big fish (again, different waters vary but I assume most of us do not ONLY fish trophy waters) Then there is the getting skunked thing... I'd rather catch a bunch of dinks than get skunked.
Are you really only targeting bigger muskies when you say you are? I think not. If your fishing a big rock reef out in the middle of Eagle (big fish spot) and a 32 inch muskie comes flying at your bait and you have a chance to rip it away from it... you can't convince me you would do so.
I'd rather keep doing what I'm doing, and thats having a good time fishing SPOTS, breaking them down, paying attention to weather, forage, etc. Those big fish and small fish have came while MUSKIE fishing, not by specifically targeting on or the other. I just like to find a pattern and its even funner when you have someone with you that likes to do the same and not complain if all we see or catch are small fish.
Just my little opinion. |
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Posts: 1237
Location: South Portsmouth, KY | Reelwise - 1/23/2007 8:04 PM
When I fish for bass and catch smaller fish I don't mind it at all. Those big fish will come. And when your targeting the bigger fish, the small fish will still be there. So either way your catching fish small and big. If it played out the way some want it, and thats to only catch big fish, your not going to be doing a whole lot of catching. (depending on which waters you are fishing)
With muskies, I can't recall a time where the bigger fish were in different areas as the smaller fish. Not even in Canada. I have limited experience fishing northern waters though. Maybe I'm just not paying attention to where the big fish are vs where the small fish are because I do not know the answer when I first get on the water. After you put in the time and put your head to work you will either catch a big fish, catch a small fish, catch a big fish and a small fish, catch a bunch of small fish, bunch of big fish, or a bunch of big and small fish... you had a successful day. I don't think anyone can go into the day and think they are targeting big fish (again, different waters vary but I assume most of us do not ONLY fish trophy waters) Then there is the getting skunked thing... I'd rather catch a bunch of dinks than get skunked.
Are you really only targeting bigger muskies when you say you are? I think not. If your fishing a big rock reef out in the middle of Eagle (big fish spot) and a 32 inch muskie comes flying at your bait and you have a chance to rip it away from it... you can't convince me you would do so.
I'd rather keep doing what I'm doing, and thats having a good time fishing SPOTS, breaking them down, paying attention to weather, forage, etc. Those big fish and small fish have came while MUSKIE fishing, not by specifically targeting on or the other. I just like to find a pattern and its even funner when you have someone with you that likes to do the same and not complain if all we see or catch are small fish.
Just my little opinion.
AMEN!! You said it best!
Edited by muskie_man 1/23/2007 7:10 PM
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Posts: 2067
| If I am on eagle or LOTW and know there is a big fish around (raised before) and a 32" fish comes hot...heck yes I am taking it away from that fish! |
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Posts: 1636
| Why? Catching that small fish might even entice those bigger fish to strike even more. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | I would say every year I pull my baits away from about 50 fish that range from SUPER DINK to about 38 inches. If a sub 40 followings in, I usually pull my bait out of the water and not try to educate and catch that fish. No real reason to.
I am looking for the biggest fish I can put my clients on. I want them to have a shot at a 45+ everyday, and they usually do. People remember that one BIG one way more than they remember a 33 incher.
I definately try to target bigger fish and refuse to figure 8 unless it is very close to 40, but that's just me. |
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Posts: 1636
| Its kind of different pulling baits away when you have already established a pattern and LOCATED those big fish. But before you get on the water I don't think you can predict the pattern will be the same. Like I said, it depends on the body of water. And if your a guide in Indiana pulling your bait away from any fish is both nonsense and understandable. There are plenty of fish in those lakes and they are small enough to possibly develop a pattern fairly quickly. (but its not always that easy as some people assume on those waters) |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | No matter where I am I fish pretty much the same way; good baits on good spots. If a small fish is there, I will catch it and be happy, if a big fish is there I will catch it and be happier!
If you continue throwing good baits on good spots not only will you see a rise in the quantity of fish you catch, you will also see an increase in the quality of fish you catch. That all said, it is very rare to find a "good" spot that never has a smaller fish on it, and vice versa, all "good" spots will occasionally hold the quality fish of the system also. |
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| I would say every year I pull my baits away from about 50 fish that range from SUPER DINK to about 38 inches. If a sub 40 followings in, I usually pull my bait out of the water and not try to educate and catch that fish. No real reason to.
I am looking for the biggest fish I can put my clients on. I want them to have a shot at a 45+ everyday, and they usually do. People remember that one BIG one way more than they remember a 33 incher.
I definately try to target bigger fish and refuse to figure 8 unless it is very close to 40, but that's just me.
although some people have cast their doubts, the Muskies Inc data that Mike registers backs this up.
here's a sample from 2 days late in '06...more fish than most people catch in a season, and a much better size average than most anyone maintains over the span of more than 3 fish.
418 235341 12/25/2006 38.00" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
419 235342 12/25/2006 37.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
420 235344 12/25/2006 35.00" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
421 235343 12/25/2006 40.00" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
422 236004 12/29/2006 38.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
423 236005 12/29/2006 36.25" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
424 236006 12/29/2006 41.00" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
425 236008 12/29/2006 37.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
426 236009 12/29/2006 39.00" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
427 236010 12/29/2006 40.00" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
428 236011 12/29/2006 40.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
429 236012 12/29/2006 39.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
430 236013 12/29/2006 38.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
431 236014 12/29/2006 37.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified Not Specified
432 236007 12/29/2006 43.50" R Webster Kosciusko Indiana Crank Bait Not Specified
from what i hear, the Indiana lakes are chock full of sub-38" fish, and on a day when the fish were "going" Mike only registers fish in the 40" range.
go to the MInc lunge log and look at his registered fish over the course of the year and you'll see that he is not catching many smaller fish and maintained a personal average of over 39" on the year - a VERY tough feat to accomplish.
well done, Mike!
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Posts: 1636
| That was certainly a good week, but there were a lot of smaller fish caught too. Like I said I don't THINK you can only target BIG fish (maybe up north) and you def. can not do it in Indiana. Thats like saying you only fish 2 or 3 spots on each lake, because the lakes are not that big at all. It doesn't make sense. Please explain to me how you ONLY target big fish in Indiana, or anywhere in the mid/souther portion of the US. And saying you pull your baits away from smaller fish doesn't explain it.
I do know a TON of big and FAT fish were being caught at the end of December and beginning of January out there. Saw lots of pictures that made me wish I was out fishing.
Edited by Reelwise 1/25/2007 4:41 PM
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| Book a few dates with Mike. Last year I went out with Mike in the fall he asked me if I minded hitting just a few spots based on the prior 3 days weather. Sure I said. Well we had 14 fish we missed on the hook set 5 or six follows including one that was about 48" that played tag with us 6 times and ended the day with me hooking a 42. Went out with Mike this fall first spot first cast got a follow from a 46 a spot he said that if ithere was a fish on it would be big. We had 7 more follows in a different areas and I had a 40 hit on the 8. Also got my biggest pike around a 40 that day on another big fish spot. Point being we fished where we fished because Mike knew that was the best shot at big fish. People fishing other areas and lakes only saw or caught dinks both days. So yeah he can have a pretty good idea where to go be for he hits the water. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Perhaps if I had hundreds of muskies under my belt I would say that I am chasing that true beast. But even then I think that I have such a passion for fishing for muskies that ANY one I do manage to fool into eating is a good fish. To be honest some of the smaller fish I have caught have fought harder than the bigger ones I have caught. Any fish of any species is fun to catch! |
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Posts: 1636
| Yes, you can have an idea where the big fish are. And yes I'm sure he knows where some big fish spots are because he has caught them on those lakes. But, small fish are in those SAME areas and you will catch them the same exact way you catch the big ones. Again, those lakes are too small for the fish not to share the same spots and share them at the same times during most of the year. Thats just my opinion, but if you were to tell me otherwise then I would probably think you are trying to tell me the lake is divided up like kindergarten through senior year in high school.
Maybe we are confusing the big fish/small fish idea. I'm talking fish over 44-45". To me a 36-42" fish is a fish worth talking about and if Mike is talking about targeting upper 40" plus in fish when he says he is targeting the bigger fish on the lakes then that is understandable. I don't think you can go out and say you are targeting 45" plus fish.
And I was not just talking about Mike... I was speaking in general. That is just my opinion.
I think you can have a mind set on which fish you are "Targeting" but you never know and you do not control which fish seeks interest in your lure.
I havnt learned to be more specific in the posts yet, lol |
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| Reelwise: please read what's actually said by someone before you reply.
MikeHulbert - 1/24/2007 7:50 AM
I would say every year I pull my baits away from about 50 fish that range from SUPER DINK to about 38 inches. If a sub 40 followings in, I usually pull my bait out of the water and not try to educate and catch that fish. No real reason to.
I...refuse to figure 8 unless it is very close to 40, but that's just me.
he never said they aren't in the lake or on those spots. said he specifically tries to avoid catching them when able to do so. actively pulling baits away from small fish IS a way to select for bigger fish.
are you a member of Muskies Inc? go to the lunge log and LOOK IT UP. there's no way to maintain that high of an average if you're catching lots of 30-34"ers. and Mike is in the running for Masters' Division Champion every year - thus giving him an incentive to catch those fish but it's abundantly clear that he walks his talk on this issue.
2006 Mens Masters' Division Top 10
Jeff M. Hanson 194 39" average
Mike Hulbert 177 fish 39" average
Will Schultz 179 39" average
Jason Hamernick 122 44" average
Ken Worel 100 43" average
Will Hardy 199 fish 34" average
Jeff Kachmann 121 fish 38" average
Charles Schauer 76 fish 40" average
John Aschenbrenner 79 fish 39" average
Joe Hardy 119 fish 34" average
Mike said he pulled his baits away from ~50 fish this year. considering he has the same size average as Jeff Hanson for his first 177 fish, those 50 fish would easily have given him enough points to win the Masters' Divison this year.
think about it.
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Posts: 1636
| You can maintain a 40" average by not pulling your baits away from fish. I did it last year.
I made my point and like I said in my last post, I was NOT directly referring to MIKE's post.
I do not enter my fish in any contests. That does not mean I can not have an opinion on the subject without having other peoples numbers thrown in my face.
Looks like this one got out of hand.... I'll remember not to reply to another thread like this.
Edited by Reelwise 1/25/2007 8:14 PM
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