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| Message Subject: PMTT Schedule? | |||
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| Brian, I feel your pain. I wish all organizations could just choose a different lake each year to cut down the sometimes already high pressure each lake gets. I know lakes like Deer Lake in WI get tons of pressure each year and the lake is so tiny it can barely handle what is being thrown at it. I have talked to Muskie guides that frequent that lake and they rely solely on live bait rigging just to get a fish in the boat for their clients! I do not fish live bait/quick strike/single hook rigs myself for fear of the that extra possibility of killing or injuring a fish. I have enough tricks in my boxes to confidently not have to rely on live bait. Some know how to do it safely, and some do not. I have found it better to not even bring it into my arsenal on the water. And I sure as hell do not want to start a lengthy battle on what is right and what is wrong about live bait rigging techniques. I have seen month+ long verbal battles on these talk boards about everyone thinking they are right or that person is wrong, blah, blah, blah. Read the field reports on the tests, then you make your decisions. Anyways, I hope all goes well for you on your quest for helping out Cass. It is a great lake to fish and I hope it does not get abused by anyone or any organization. If you find out anything new and interesting, let me know on the talk boards as I will be frequenting various sites in search of new founded information regarding Muskies. Thanks for your input Brian, it is much appreciated. Skie' x 2 Team esox | |||
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| CMunger, I like your view points, nicely put. I, myself, was subject in the past at a lakehome I had in the NE Metro area and it was bombed constantly by bass fisherman and bass tournaments. What do you do? What can you do? You can bitch about it, but it gets you nowhere fast. You sit in your living room and look out and say, "Dammit-Those bastards are fishing in "my" favorite spot again, they are going to ruin "my" spot! Sure enough, that afternoon you too are fishing that same spot after someone else fished it trying to hit the motherload, in case someone else missed the goods. We are all guilty and greedy. Today, this is MY LAKE and I will fish where I want to, and no one will get in my way. I cannot stand crowds of people on the lakes everyday either. I think we should get a lottery system that allows only a certain amount of fisherman each day. That is what the DNR does when they design a "parking lot" at a public access. There are only a certain amount of parking spaces for that access, but some silly bastard is always going to park all the way down the road, even if he/she gets a little parking ticket! I think most of us can say that we have been guilty of these crimes. If you drive 3-5 hours to get to your favorite lake and the spaces are full, you too will do anything you can to get on that body of water. Of course, because we are all human. Muskie fishing is quickly becoming a popular sport and many people are jumping on the badwagon. I was a die-hard bass fisherman for years, but now that I Muskie fish I now own the water?? Well, my rod is bigger and I certainly could take out a jet skier at a modest 100 feet. Just a twist on what you said, my 2 cents worth also. Hopefully no one will take offense to it. I am a bit crazy at times, but I have good intentions. I, too, am a Muskie Fisherman. Skie'x 2 | |||
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| Ann user, Wake up please. The D.N.R. in any state usually has the authority to to issue the permits and in some states have changed the size limits for tournaments. I don't understand what you abe bellyaching about. The tournament brings alot of money to an area. The locals in most cases end up saying they learned something talking to to the contestants. Especially referring to the P.M.T.T. I wonder why so many pick on it. We are not killing fish, robbing your banks or kidnapping your first born. We are there to fish an so many people benifit from the tournaments. I am not picking on you with this reply but to all those that complain about tournaments. You have to remember you have a great fishery in minnesota for you. The D.N.R. helpd create it, give them some slack. Have a good xmas everyone and pray for an early spring. Don Pfioffer | |||
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| Sure can tell the waters frozen! Only 117 days till the first PMTT event! | |||
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| Yes Sir,Thick Shady: One surely CAN tell when the season is over---keep your wits about you everyone, and please keep ALL discussions, including this one civil on MuskieFIRST!! We all share the same water at one time or another....or should!![:0] | |||
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| Thickster, I thought we might head over to Pool 2? Bring a can of Spam and one can of sterno (canned heat). We can eat the flaming sterno and throw the Spam in the river to kill the carp. Skie' Me Hard | |||
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| Cave Run here I come !!! [:bigsmile:] | |||
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| The common denominator of the tournaments I fish, including the Muskie's Inc events, the Rollie and Hellen's Events, the PMTT, the Hodag challenge, and others ( INLLUDING THE KEVIN WORRALL MEMORIAL---a 120 boat event on Pelican Lake in September), is NOT money. The VAST majority of the anglers fishing these events obviously do not take home a check, and the total first place payout isn't enough to do more than take a vacation once expenses and fees are deducted, and the Gov gets their share. If one is fishing muskie tournaments for money, one is going to LOSE big time, more often than not. Muskie tournaments are , for the most part, a way for anglers to meet, compare notes,have some fun and do what human beings DO naturally, COMPETE!! The new 'elite' in the tournament world is Jacob's new RCL...a couple years out, and the first place payouts are enormous, up to hundreds of thousands of dollars. You may have an argument there, but why should fishing be ANY different than any other sport? There are pro golfers, baseball players,hunters,hikers,basketball players, volleyball players,mountain climbers,bird watchers, even pro card players. Why should the anglers in the world that are interested in taking a chance at making a living fishing be denied that? The waters belong to everyone, as do the fish swimming in them, and in most cases, pro anglers are extremely conservation minded. The RCL Walleye Champion beat the very best there is out there, and deserves the money, recognition, and 15 minutes of fame as much as a champion golfer. Don't try to go to an argument about the resource, as Muskies Inc, By NATURE a competitive contest oriented group, pretty much started and maintained muskie catch and release mentality. The entire pro/against tournament argument is primarily a philosophical debate, based on personal feelings. Let's talk ACTUAL impact; biological, conservation, local economy, attention to the resource, growth of the sport, and other issues.... not the 'I don't like it, so it is wrong' arguments I so often hear. Our respective dept. of natural resources in each State or Province is charged with taking care of our waters, and they are doing a fine job with VERY poor funding. Support them and their hard work to make a better fishery for us all, and work with the Conservation congress or like organization in your area to see your voice, whatever it may be saying, is heard. | |||
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| I'm still not happy[:(] with the fact that there are going to be 2 tourneys when I'm up on vacation. So, heeding the advise of others on the board, I've ordered maps of Bemidji and a Sportsmans book of maps of the entire area. I've also contacted a guide in the area to show me around a few other lakes. So, I'll spend the tourney days exploring more new waters if the lake's too crowded for my liking. However, in the future, I would like all tourney schedulers to call and check my vacation schedule before they plan any events[;)]. Thank-You Beaver | |||
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| If you dont want to compete with all the tourny fisherman, give the lakes connected to Cass a try. These lakes do not get the normal pressure cass gets, but have some nice muskies in them. Andrusia has some nice ski's as well as Wolf. Kitchi has some, and you'll get some bonus pike. I havent seen any boundries posted for these tournies, but maybe pike bay will be tourny free. Also dont overlook Buck lake. I have seen some monsters in there. It's a small lake, and the topography the maps show aren't even close. You'll be surprised at the depth in Buck. Hope this helps.... | |||
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| C'mon 99 Buck is only 10" deep. :) The MN Muskie Tournament DID use Pike Bay last year but all other lakes (including the shallow Buck) were off limits. I think the Beav will be able to find a few areas that won't get pounded or prefished! | |||
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| I did not compare Muskies Inc to any other tournament group. I simply stated that I fish Muskies Inc, Rollie and Hellen's, PMTT, The Kevin Worrall Memorial, and other events, and mentioned that Muskies Inc pioneered in many ways both competitive Muskie angling, and the idea of catch and release. I also did not look to help any group's 'cause', as that is not the point. If any of the groups run a poor event, no one will fish it again, and the event will disappear. If, indeed, the events were depleting the resource, I might agree with your point, but they are not. Nor are they 'exploiting' it anymore than a cash tournament at the local public bowling alley, in a literal sense. Because of the pervasive Muskies Inc mentality, the fish are returned to the water largely unharmed. Two tournament trails have implemented the use of radios to bring a judge to the fish instead of transporting the fish to a judge. Most of the tournaments circuits that have a conservation fund returned to the lakes fished are walleye events, where there is a larger potential for a substantial kill.[:)] | |||
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| Ahem!!! Sworrall, you are going pretty far afield here when you claim that musky for cash tournaments do not exploit the resource. By their very nature they depend on a musky population and do exploit that population as the basis for the tournament and cash return to the organizers. They exploit the resource, bait shops exploit the resource, guides exploit the resource and some boat companies have exploited the resource, using the population of muskies as the base for cash income. I don't even think that this is arguable. Go check the definition in the dictionary. As for the tournament mess, I see no particular positives they have brought me as an angler nor the musky population. The only exceptions would be those that return proceeds to population, lake management and habitat preservation. There are many many dollars going out in the name of musky fishing, and many hands outstretched to receive those dollars, and not all those hands are attached to altruistic minds. The basis for cash musky fishing has been grandfathered in by the many other fish for cash events in the past so it is unlikely they will go away. Fighting it will probably be like beating your head against a wall. There may be some chance that you can "direct" it though. I would think the MNR board would listen to complaints and possibly draw up new guidelines in the future to prevent overuse, and overpressure. In the meantime you might as well study the results with interest and an open mind. | |||
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| I think when I read the previous post that it makes more sense to eliminate the word 'exploits' and replace it with 'makes use of'. "Exploit" makes it seem way too biased and pointed to me. Comes off very attacking.........and I don't fish tournaments. But I sure don't feel that by simply being an angler that I am exploiting the resource, I am making use of it. Beav | |||
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| What 'Soap Box'? I am offering my opinion, tempered by involvement in the industry and in the development of what is today's Midwestern Angling structure for over 28 years. I can, with absolute accuracy, tell you that many of the products, techniques, and some of the very basis for muskie fishing's advance in the fishing world is a result of the 'exploitation' you mention. By the definition you give, every angler here also then 'exploits' the muskie population in the pursuit of the 50" fish so many of us have accepted as the benchmark number. Where did that come from? How did 50" become the benchmark? And most importantly...if one catches a 50" fish, what is the very first thing we do? Take a picture, and show it to everyone that will look, tell the story, and let EVERYONE know...send the pic to the magazines, put it on the wall, and get it up on the internet sites...if there was not the 'competitive' atmosphere there, no one would care. Those who wish not to say anything, and keep it purely personal, do so. those who don't, don't. Why is it that companies like Musky Hunter, Bucher Tackle,Slammer Crankbaits, Esox Angler, Ranger Boats, Tuffy Boats, Crestliner Boats, Alumacraft, Pike and Muskie Magazine, and even the non profits like Muskies Inc. are working so hard to develop a foothold in the growing muskie industry? WHO pays for all of this?? You do, or they all go out of business, there is no more market, and even MuskieFIRST goes away. Look at the new issue of Muskies Inc magazine, and at the ads there. The magazine is supported in the large part by that advertising, and that advertising is directed at YOU, in an effort to get YOU to buy the new products those companies have developed for muskie angling....and so on. NONE of this was an accident. If there is exploitatiion, and there certainly IS, it is of the angler by the Industry. Pro Anglers, like the Petes, Joes, Als, Dougs, Chucks,Jasons, and others one sees in the magazines may or may not fish tournaments, and by the definition both you and Annon have given, are also to be called to task. I have been directly involved in the development of the modern fishing industry all my working life, and can tell you the attention paid to the resource by your governing bodies is directly in response to the attention paid by the angler; the Industry spends considerable resources developing and nurturing new and existing markets drawing new anglers to the sport. Those markets include Walleye, Bass, Muskie, and Catfish. New interest and participation in the sport is the desired result, so that new products can be developed and marketed. I am talking about the very products many of the anglers out there are so excited about using and learning about here and anywhere else there is muskie info available! The taxes paid by every one of the Industry folks and by the consumers buying their products put more into the resource than you know, as those HUGE funds go directly to the DNR organizations of every state. The context in which you have used 'exploit' is 'take advantage of' or more accurately, 'abuse'. In strict biological context, the Muskie events do little harm to the fishery. In fact, over the last thirty years, I have seen the fisheries improve due to public pressure driven by the very people you mention. SOOOO...if there is exploitation by the Tournament Promoters it is of the ANGLERS, not the fish. I submit that most of the anglers in any event on any given day would be fishing muskies somewhere if they weren't in the tournament, anyway. I pay my entry fees voluntarily, and choose to do so. I enjoy the events, and disagree strongly that the event is not a chance to see friends, have a good time, and learn alittle. It is MY CHOICE to fish the event, others may choose not to. The anti tournament sentiment is usually driven by the fact the angler does not want an event on home waters, by resentment, or by the concept that muskie or any other fishing should be contemplative in nature, not competitive. So again, we are back to the fact that Pro and Anti tournament anglers are seperated by philosophical issues, not hard, cold data and facts. The idea that any Tournament organization is bad by nature because they intend to operate as a business is WAY to narrowly focused, as if the Industry overall was held to the same standard, it would not exist. I do NOT support any one circuit, and in fact have some problems with a couple of them. [:)] | |||
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| Steve, Well said! I agree 100% and like it or not the Musky Fishing Sport Industry is jumping in leaps and bounds and is not likely to slow anytime soon.With todays sinking econemy the only way that we will get dollars allocated to our Fisheries and Programs directed toward Muskies is by being Highly Visable to the General Public,generate dollars thru Tourist Spending,etc..Like it or not Tournaments are a part of this being visable and the growing industry.Sitting back and being quiet will mean a loss of revenue directed toward the Sport and Musky we all like to fish for.I would like to sit back and have a honey hole that no one else knew about and just fish my life away keeping it secret as well,but that is not todays world,with all the information that is available today thru the Net etc.It is getting more crowded every year here on my own waters,but we are left with the only choice but to educate those that come here on the importance to practice Catch & Release,and this has worked to the most part,along with higher size limits for next year. Capt. Larry | |||
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| Every time that I browse through this post, it seems to me that this discussion should be about tournament fishing in general and not just focused on muskie tourneys though this place is muskiefirst. As I look back over the years, it seems to me that more good than bad has come about as the result of tournament fishing. Look at the first tourneys run by the fledgling Bass Anglers Sportsmans Society, the founders of tournament fishing. Catch and kill tourneys gave way to catch and release and started the ball rolling for common sense angling and selective harvest. Along with the format changes came a boom, and new trends being developed in tackle, techniques, rods, reels, boats....the list goes on. We all benefitted in some way from the changes that were made. Take a look at where walleye tourneys have been and where they are heading. It's the same thing. Specialized gear for certain techniques. New and better rods, reels, boats and motors. And why? Because of the exposure that the manufacturers are enjoying on ESPN and other media. And all thanks to the tournament anglers that pioneered the techniques and showed them to us, creating a demand and making manufacturers meet those demands. Professional bass anglers can make a living at tournament fishing because of the number of events and from the billions put out by sponsors for endorsements and from TV money. The walleye tourneys are heading the same way. And if it weren't for the fact that muskies are so damn hard to catch, I'm sure ESPN would be working on televising muskie tourneys. But unlike bass and walleyes, you're not going to stick a camera crew in the tournament leaders boat and be assured of getting some great footage. But aside from that one big difference, fishing tournaments are fishing tournaments. And I beleive that we enjoy the equipment that we do today as a direct result of guys who fish for a living. So whether you fish in tournaments or not, and whether you like them or not, I believe that we are better off because of them and the advances that they helped to make. Beav | |||
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| Sworrall, I will not reply to all of your post since it had references to several different ideas, and by the way, was a well thought out viewpoint, but I do stand by my post as is. I don't see anywhere that I mentioned "abuse", and SELFISH or UNETHICAL use of the resource would indeed be a secondary, not a primary, definition of exploit. (However it would probably take Pollyanna herself to believe that this NEVER occurs.) I am sure that the PMMT and other cash tournaments have given a lot back to the resource and not just used it a means to put money in their pockets. We probably need someone that is familiar with these tourneys to clarify what they have given back to the resource, I am sure that this would temper some of the "anti's" hostility. ie what were the cash and "other" contributions made back to the resource by say-just the PMMT? see how you've already warped my viewpoint here? | |||
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| Well see there is a positive side to the tourneys already, that is a nice group of muskies for stocking. Definitely a +. But now someone needs to tell us what the PMMT gave back to the resource, I am sure they made a substantial donation somewhere. Surely they would not take all that money and put it in their pockets? I mean I know they gave back something right? | |||
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| Very interesting topic...and good viewpoints on both sides. Larry had many good points as well as Steve. Muskie tourneys have brought more "PR" to the sport, which made us more then simple rednecks who pound the water for endless hours. The big companies like Ranger, Mercury and Johnson worldwide are exsamples of companys that have seen this sport grow. They want a piece of the action and want to see tourneys promote their new products. Tourneys are the platform in which products are tested and promoted in many cases. I wrote this in my Profile in the "About us" section of the site. "As Managing Editor, my goal for MuskieFIRST is to create and maintain the best interactive muskie site on the planet. I want fishermen to be able to visit us, ask questions of the some of the best sticks in the Americas, and then be able to take that knowledge out; apply it as a tool, and catch more and bigger muskies. I also want MuskieFIRST to be a platform to encourage good sportsmanship, friendships, and proper angling ethics; especially conservation. Muskie anglers may be few in numbers, but have a voice that can and should be heard. That voice--YOUR voice-- is going to help improve our waters for all species and help provide top shelf muskie fishing for all future generations!" Just as MuskieFIRST is a platform for sportsmenship, friendships and muskie angler information. Tourneys too can be the same type of platform. Muskie info is learned, spread and brought to attention to the public in tourneys. That is what the big companies want and respect. They inturn will make better products to suit us and our needs in this market. The big companies dont want there products kept secret or they would not sell anything. We all dont want to see tourneys on our lakes when we want to fish them. The WMT is coming to Pewaukee May 18th and I am not a fan of that either. But its thier right as well as my right to find other waters on that day. Some good PR might come from the event and the muskie fishing might become better in some peoples eyes. Companies will see the sport growing and build us better products to use. I am not fishing tourneys this year...but only because I want to spend more time and money with my family...Otherwise I would, they are fun and educational. Why are muskies angler in the 10% society in the fishing world....because we have been in the past too afraid to talk about it.. Just in the last 5 years has muskie fishing become more public with sites like this and others. Muskies sites and muskie tourneys have made muskie fishing what it is today. A growing sport that the big companies want to be apart of. No soap box is needed when we have sites to express our true feelings for the sport.[:bigsmile:] | |||
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| Your right its not all in the hands of the big companys. Thats why I said.... "Muskie anglers may be few in numbers, but have a voice that can and should be heard. That voice--YOUR voice-- is going to help improve our waters for all species and help provide top shelf muskie fishing for all future generations!" Yes, The DNR has a lot to do with it. But the DNR has a budget and more anglers excited about fishing makes more money. Sites and Tourneys work to get more people excited. Without Bass tourneys..where would the sport of bass fishing be today. Hmmmm You might not know...but sites like this have more people watching then posting...30:1 Granted sites and tourneys are small in the "big" picture of the fishing world...But its a Voice that is heard. I know the DNR comes to this site and looks at what you guys want in a muskie lake. Mercury too visits this site and gets a feeling of where the market is going, what folks want to have in a boat motor. Its our voice..and its heard.[;)] [:bigsmile:] | |||
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| The money the PMTT or any other business organization 'puts in their pocket' is why they are in business. How about the sponsors...Ranger, Mercury, Musky Hunter, etc? They sponsor the event to get close to the anglers there, to promote their products, to make money. How about the anglers? THAT is where the money comes from. It is not public funds, it is money from the fishermen themselves. A HUGE difference between this and other 'Pro' sports is that the anglers are fishing LITERALLY for their own money. The PMTT payout ( which is a lower percentage than many other events) is based on entries, and with the exception of the championship, is a percentage of the total entry fees. OF COURSE the PMTT is in business to make money. The PMTT is a business organization, just like the MWC, the PWT, BASS, or any other group. The MWC is owned by North American Fisherman, a business...the PWT by In Fisherman, a business...and so on. It would be a good thing for ALL the Muskie tournaments to start a conservwation fund, but make no mistake, the money would come from the competing anglers voluntary entry fees, nowhere else. Muskies Inc is a business also; it is simply a non-profit. I personally give LOTS of money to Muskies Inc groups every year. They sell rpoducts, memberships, advertising space, etc. to make money for the organization. Mostly, they do good things with it. Why is it ONE particular group should be somehow required to give back a percentage of profit to the fishery? Should it, if one is to go there, not be a requirement of ALL? All bar, club, local, Chamber of Commerce, or other tournament groups? Should it not, then, also be a requirement of ALL Pros, including Guides, Writers, TV Personalities, Outfitters, or anyone else making a portion of their living Muskie Fishing? What about the Resort owner, the Sport Shop, the Marine dealer...all exploit the fishery. I still submit that the resource is not adversely effected by these events, any more than by the average angler. The problem appears to be that someone is making money while promoting competitive angling, which is objectionable to some on a philosophical basis. If there were no money to be made, competitive or spectator sports of ANY kind would not exist. No TV shows on Saturday morning, no TNN/ESPN fishing shows, no regional shows...Sport fishing, like it or not, is a business, and tournament angling is a facet of that business. Look into where the taxes imposed on the sale of products goes...many many millions go directly to habitat, access, and other areas of waterway management every year. The landing you used last November to launch your Muskie boat may have been paid for, in part or in total, by those funds. Let's ask the anglers...PMTT anglers, would you support a 10% increase in your fees to set up a conservation fund donated back to the waters fished? I would. [:)] | |||
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| At the risk of being accused of standing on a soap box as Steve W. was. I have a couple of points to make. 1st to say that the PMTT and other organizations contribute nothing to the resource is not completly true. As well as it's not true that lure manufacturers contribute nothing. Several years ago in the United States Congress a bill was passed into law called the Wallup - Breaux act. This law is a 10% Federal excise tax applied to all fishing tackle and outdoor gear. Some things such as trolling motors etc are taxed at a lower 4% rate. This money then goes to the government for various projects related to the use of these products that are being taxed. A large percentage of these taxes that are collected go back to the state from which they came for use in helping to manage the resource, the building of new public accesses, etc. Some of this money is used for stocking purposes as well. This is a direct tax to the tackle manufacturer, wholesaler and retailer, that you the individual buyer pays every time you buy a fishing related product. So when you spend $100.00 on lures, $90.00 of it is for the product and $10.00 of your money goes for this excise tax. This has been the case for several years and was put in place to prevent excactly what many of you are complaining about. Namely the use of the resource without having any $$ put back into the resource. As a former small tackle company owner I can tell you that I wish that every time I sold a lure I could have counted on making a 10% profit automatically. So as you see the more tackle that is sold the more $$ in taxes is collected for use for the resource. With this in mind, you can see that the more the sport is promoted as in MI, PMTT or the WMT etc the more fishing equipment is purchased the more $$ is in effect paid by the big companies in taxes for furtherment of the resources we all hold so dear. Yes I know that it is you and I and every other product user that actually foots the bill. However this is a small price to pay to help in the upkeep of our natural resources. One more point and then I will get down from the soap box. I have no actual facts to back this up, but who do you think spends more money on rods, reels, and other tackle, the Tournament guys or the week end angler. I think that if you compare equipment quality and quantity, you will find that the average tournament fisherman spends many, many more dollars on their equipment. Thus pays more $$ in tax that goes toward the management of the resource. Oh did I forget to mention that the sales tax of the product is paid on the total price including the 10% federal tax? A tax on a tax, only us outdoor types would put up with this for the love of our sport. Let Em Go...Let EM Grow.....Mike www.gradmagotrunoverbyareindeerwalkinghomefromourhousechristmaseve.com[:halo:] | |||
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| Paper trail for money for fisheries Management... Fishermen buy License - % goes to DNR/Management Fishermen...buy tackle, pay taxes...% goes to DNR Sport Shop--sells tackle, pays taxes, % goes to DNR Companies, big or small, sell products to sport shops, pay special tax on all fishing related products AND all other taxes,% goes to habitat, access, and Management. Bigger the businness, bigger the sales, bigger the taxes, State and Federal, bigger the contribution. Sell out? Mercury Marine, a division of Brunswick, a HUGE company, has supported the yearly Muskies Inc Release contest for a very long time. They have supported local, regional, and national Muskie angling events, Muskies Inc fund raisers, and other muskie events for over 30 years, and have done so at no small expense, to the benefit of all. Why? Promotion, plain and simple. Mercury sees the Muskie market as a good, solid regional venture. But does Suzuki, Bombardier, or Yamaha work as actively with the Muskie world as Mercury? No, not to the degree Mercury does, the market is too small. So why would any Muskie angler run anything but a Mercury? This is a complicated issue, yes? As to the commment that the DNR already knows what the Muskie Fishermen want...that has to be tempered with what the Walleye, Crappie, Bass, and Perch anglers want, what the resort owners want, what the local Chamber of Commerce wants, and so on ( not to mention biology, which always gets in the way...reality is not always what folks want to hear). Politics and local pressure have a huge effect on fisheries management, and fisheries management changes are usually driven by small, vocal groups. That is what Jason was speaking about...your voice. The power behind any group's voice is organization. The power behind any organization is cohesive, careful platforms that make sense and are based on concrete ideas backed up with logic and basis in fact. One cannot ignore reality and still further our goals toward better fishing in this economy. Fishing is a Billion dollar plus business here. That money is spread throughout the economy like any other dollar. Changes in the structure of fishing as we know it today that threaten that will be very difficult to achieve. Changes that actually IMPROVE fishing and the fishing economy for EVERYONE,consumer and Merchant alike... and provide for good angling in the future will not. [:0] | |||
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| Why if your so dead set that the PMTT is taking away from your resource are you not mentioning other Tournaments that are for money as well?What does Rollies Tournaments or WMT put back to the fishery under your terms,or any other money Tournament.There are most likely many more Walleye or Bass Tournaments on your waters also that do not put back anything under your terms.Take away all of the Tournaments,Musky,Bass & Walleye because they put nothing back under your terms.Then see how long your DNR will still get the same amount of money to support your fishery,it will all go to somewhere else in the state where they get the most return on the dollar spent,where bait stores,motels,grocery stores etc. all in the chain return more tax dollars to the system.When you pick on one and only one Tournament the PMTT,sounds to me like you have hatred towards that one and only that one alone.I hope you put as much time into your fishing. Capt. Larry | |||
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| Some interesting points here. The paper trail idea is interesting. State DNR stocks musky with a dedicated portion of the general fund to raise and place those fish(not a natural occurring population in several tourney lakes), cash tournament comes in causes a small bump in the already heavy utilization of that resource for purpose of making cash. The promoter or organizers leave town when it's over after making what direct contribution to the fishery after they have utilized the musky population directly???(I didn't even use the word exploited here because I am sure that they are making a direct contribution are they not??). I am waiting for someone to clarify this. I thought surely these cash tournaments do return something to the resource directly, do they not?? Steve I like your idea of making sure that direct consumers of the resource do return something to that resource. I think the idea of cash tourneys returning funds to the resource is an excellent one, particularly if that is not already happening. I am not sure if tournament anglers would feel that the 10% surcharge you suggest should come out of their pockets, perhaps they would feel that the promoters should stand that fee. As for your idea about guides paying for utilizing the resource, I also think that is a great idea. Perhaps a $100 charge for a musky guiding license, directly returned to musky management would be fair. Also some regulations to protect guides that had paid these fees would be fair, ie absolutely no keeping muskies while fishing with guide who does not have muskie guide license. Both of those are great ideas and I support them. As for your statement that like it or not "sport fishing is a business" once again "waves make wind". Sport fishing is sport fishing, business has grown around it, exploiting it as an income stream generator. Sport fishing has existed ever since man was able to grow and store enough crops to keep him alive. I realize that in your position you have a certain viewpoint and it is in your best interest to espouse that viewpoint, and I don't disagree with a lot of what you say but let's not get confused about the basis of fishing. Musky one I always read and enjoy your posts and just want to point out a small thing and that is that the weekend angler far outspends the tournament angler just by force of numbers. The tourney angler I am sure, fisherperson by fisherperson outspends on a per capita basis but there are a huge number that do not fish tournaments. | |||
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| I'm not saying that Tournaments should not put back to the fishery.I for one would pay 10% more to see it go to the fishery.Was only trying to make a point that there are many cash Tournaments in MN,maybe not Musky related,that use the resource even more and put nothing back directly.I only see the PMTT as the one that gets bashed by usualy a person that won't even put his name behind his words.I don't work for the PMTT,yes I fish it when I can,yes I also pay a price to Sponcer it as well. Capt. Larry | |||
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| Anon, I understand that there are many more weekend anglers than tournament fishermen. I certainly agree with you that per fisherman tournament folks spend more $$. I do not know for a fact however that just by sheer numbers do weekend anglers spend an overwhelming amount more. What is the ratio of weekenders to tournament anglers? Is this number 10 to 1, 50 to 1, 100 to 1? I don't know the answer. All I know is how much time, effort and $$ I put into my effort. If this has become a discussion of direct and only direct contribution to our resource management, Then I question whether or not any of us make that contribution. MI would come the closest I suppose with their stocking programs. In WI Rollie & Helens Tournaments donate $10.00 per entry directly to the local DNR for thier use as they see fit. The $$ can be used for equip, etc. All of this is to say that very little direct contribution is made. I don't know of many guys that send any extra moneys to the DNR. This is kind of a moot point however in that both the MN and WI laws are being adhered to in these cases at this time. All in all tournaments do bring a lot extra $$ into the areas in which they are held. Not only large comp. profit but a lot of local businesses as well. I also agree with Capt. Larry and Steve in that I would be happy to pay another $10.00 or 10% to do my part in helping with the resource. I personally think that if you want to fish tournaments by all means do so. If you do not want to fish tournaments then again, by all means do not. But please do not interfere with my choice to do so as long as the laws of the state in question are being met. Let Em Go...Let EM Grow.....Mike | |||
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| Anon, I wonder why you choose to not use your name when you post? You also say you are from Minnesota. I'm wondering if perhaps you have some connections to the MN tournaments? In fact aren't you friends with the promoter of some MN tournaments? Just wondering sorry if I am incorrect. I am a tournament fisherman and have fished many different events. Some advertise that they give back to the resource some don't. The PMTT is THE BEST tournament that I have fished! Hands down. I'm not talking about the payouts.... I'm not talking about the owners(Wouldyalikeme would make a good live bait he never stops moving) I'm talking about how they treat the fish. They have more judge boats available. ALL contestants MUST have a Marine radio and everything is very well explained at the pre-tournament meeting. If the PMTT was all about $$$ they wouldn't have the # of Judge boats out that they do. I've heard of much smaller tournaments understaffed for judges and the fish waiting for 20 Minutes in a net. Even if this tournament puts fish back or donates to the fishery it doesn't have enough boats because of the $$$$. The PMTT does not suffer from this. The other tournaments that allow transport, don't educate the contestants on what to do with a fish is a much bigger problem then if someone is making money. The people that fish tournaments want recognition. So do the people that take the fish out of the water, take a picture..then show the picture off. Got Pictures? Also here is some good reading on other species tournament kill rates. Mortality fishthelake.com | |||
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| I understand you Anon and do back some things you have to say as well as the others involved in this freindly dicussion. Its fun to be able to talk about things that may make in inpact. I have started discusions on other sites in the past that "did" make an impact. The use of radio's in the PMTT came from..and only from the dicussions about the saftey of the fishery on the INTERNET.. So thats a voice that was heard and acted on. So please feel free to mention your name..There is only "ONE" anon...according to the IP addresses recorded. We all would be able to relate much better with you, if you used a registered site name.[:bigsmile:] Also Thanks for keeping this a "freindly" post. Everyones voice is good to see.[:bigsmile:] Also I back only the promoters giving 10% to the fishery, in stocking ect. The contestants pay too much the way it is, with a low return in the percentage of payout. | |||
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