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Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Dare I say this is a typical complacency we see in this country? So many instances we have seen things like this happen before real change takes place...and it is not political/government. Just like Lightening said...things didn't get replenished, and we were caught flat footed.
NASA with the challenger disaster, Dale Earnhardt passing, are just a couple. Instead of being proactive, we react...
We will not see real change here until all people start to really follow and practice what we have all been told we should be doing by the experts in the field...
I am hopeful that these big pharma companies actually can come through and sooner rather than later... We are paying through the nose on it via health insurance, etc. so lets see it happen
Steve
Edited by VMS 10/21/2020 7:00 PM
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| Top H2O - 10/21/2020 12:04 PM
I have to get tested 1 day before another Heart procedure, so yes, they can get fast results if they want to.
Covid test and MRI on Nov. 2
Heart procedure on Nov. 3.
It's a shame that some people have made this into a political hot topic.
Wear a "clean" mask if you can't social distance. Clean your hands once in a while.
Quit blaming others for 210,000 deaths.
I would be fine going to a Muskie Show....Especially for those COOL Show Colors !
This too shall pass.
G, good luck with the procedure. My sister in law is on almost the exact schedule for a hip replacement then. She has a son who thinks the whole COVID thing is a hoax. Told him she doesn't want to see him for a couple weeks ;>). She has been in pain for a long time, long enough she is looking forward to surgery. |
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Location: Ashland WI | North of 8 - 10/21/2020 6:17 PM
14ledo81 - 10/21/2020 4:02 PM
I am wondering what has changed since the spring. The number of positive cases is way up, yet the number of deaths is down?
Anyone have any input on that?
Don't know on nationwide basis but I have read where on WI the average age of those getting the virus was younger than earlier in the pandemic. That supposedly leads to lower mortality
I could definitely see that changing the death rate.
But then I would ask, "why did more elderly get the virus earlier?" |
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| 14ledo81 - 10/22/2020 8:30 AM
North of 8 - 10/21/2020 6:17 PM
14ledo81 - 10/21/2020 4:02 PM
I am wondering what has changed since the spring. The number of positive cases is way up, yet the number of deaths is down?
Anyone have any input on that?
Don't know on nationwide basis but I have read where on WI the average age of those getting the virus was younger than earlier in the pandemic. That supposedly leads to lower mortality
I could definitely see that changing the death rate.
But then I would ask, "why did more elderly get the virus earlier?"
I don't know. My guess would be that since the earlier day of the pandemic, vulnerable seniors have been much more careful, places like assisted living and nursing homes have gone to dramatic protocols. We have not been able to have an in person visit with my 96 year old father in law since early summer. No cases of COVID in his 80 person assisted living facility, but he basically lives in lock down. Very tough on the residents. Can't eat together, can't visit in person with family, except talking to each other by phone while standing by his window. Other factors might be that today there are ways for folks, in particular the elderly to get what they need without face to face interaction. The Walmart I buy groceries at has almost as many order pickers as shoppers. Yesterday the covered parking spots reserved for order pick up at Walmart were almost all occupied and most were older people. I have neighbors who are in their early 80s, who used to be very socially active, something going on almost every day but they have not been inside a store or cafe in months. She is a retired nurse and nursing home administrator. From time to time when out for a walk we talk across the road. They are doing well, staying physically active, but not taking any chance at all. |
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Location: Ashland WI | North of 8 - 10/22/2020 8:49 AM
14ledo81 - 10/22/2020 8:30 AM
North of 8 - 10/21/2020 6:17 PM
14ledo81 - 10/21/2020 4:02 PM
I am wondering what has changed since the spring. The number of positive cases is way up, yet the number of deaths is down?
Anyone have any input on that?
Don't know on nationwide basis but I have read where on WI the average age of those getting the virus was younger than earlier in the pandemic. That supposedly leads to lower mortality
I could definitely see that changing the death rate.
But then I would ask, "why did more elderly get the virus earlier?"
I don't know. My guess would be that since the earlier day of the pandemic, vulnerable seniors have been much more careful, places like assisted living and nursing homes have gone to dramatic protocols. We have not been able to have an in person visit with my 96 year old father in law since early summer. No cases of COVID in his 80 person assisted living facility, but he basically lives in lock down. Very tough on the residents. Can't eat together, can't visit in person with family, except talking to each other by phone while standing by his window. Other factors might be that today there are ways for folks, in particular the elderly to get what they need without face to face interaction. The Walmart I buy groceries at has almost as many order pickers as shoppers. Yesterday the covered parking spots reserved for order pick up at Walmart were almost all occupied and most were older people. I have neighbors who are in their early 80s, who used to be very socially active, something going on almost every day but they have not been inside a store or cafe in months. She is a retired nurse and nursing home administrator. From time to time when out for a walk we talk across the road. They are doing well, staying physically active, but not taking any chance at all.
I suppose all that could make a difference.
I have a completely different theory though. I think back when it was bad in April (and deaths were highest), many of the cases were not reported from lack of testing, people not knowing they had it, etc. |
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| 14ledo81 - 10/22/2020 10:56 AM
North of 8 - 10/22/2020 8:49 AM
14ledo81 - 10/22/2020 8:30 AM
North of 8 - 10/21/2020 6:17 PM
14ledo81 - 10/21/2020 4:02 PM
I am wondering what has changed since the spring. The number of positive cases is way up, yet the number of deaths is down?
Anyone have any input on that?
Don't know on nationwide basis but I have read where on WI the average age of those getting the virus was younger than earlier in the pandemic. That supposedly leads to lower mortality
I could definitely see that changing the death rate.
But then I would ask, "why did more elderly get the virus earlier?"
I don't know. My guess would be that since the earlier day of the pandemic, vulnerable seniors have been much more careful, places like assisted living and nursing homes have gone to dramatic protocols. We have not been able to have an in person visit with my 96 year old father in law since early summer. No cases of COVID in his 80 person assisted living facility, but he basically lives in lock down. Very tough on the residents. Can't eat together, can't visit in person with family, except talking to each other by phone while standing by his window. Other factors might be that today there are ways for folks, in particular the elderly to get what they need without face to face interaction. The Walmart I buy groceries at has almost as many order pickers as shoppers. Yesterday the covered parking spots reserved for order pick up at Walmart were almost all occupied and most were older people. I have neighbors who are in their early 80s, who used to be very socially active, something going on almost every day but they have not been inside a store or cafe in months. She is a retired nurse and nursing home administrator. From time to time when out for a walk we talk across the road. They are doing well, staying physically active, but not taking any chance at all.
I suppose all that could make a difference.
I have a completely different theory though. I think back when it was bad in April (and deaths were highest ), many of the cases were not reported from lack of testing, people not knowing they had it, etc.
Makes sense, only those in dire straits were tested. Contact tracing was also just ramping up. |
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Location: oswego, il | 14ledo81 - 10/22/2020 8:30 AM
North of 8 - 10/21/2020 6:17 PM
14ledo81 - 10/21/2020 4:02 PM
I am wondering what has changed since the spring. The number of positive cases is way up, yet the number of deaths is down?
Anyone have any input on that?
Don't know on nationwide basis but I have read where on WI the average age of those getting the virus was younger than earlier in the pandemic. That supposedly leads to lower mortality
I could definitely see that changing the death rate.
But then I would ask, "why did more elderly get the virus earlier?"
Who is really to say that they did. This virus affects individual people in such different ways. One of my mom's former co-workers gives blood. He did they tested it and has the covid antibodies. He never knew he had it without being tested there is no real way to know for sure how many have actually had covid already.
Edited by ToddM 10/22/2020 1:48 PM
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Location: oswego, il | MartinTD - 10/21/2020 10:39 AM
Current Oneida County stats show they are NOT overwhelmed! The cases are up because testing is up, big deal. A new article I read this morning says this is going to be around forever like the seasonal flu. It can't be eradicated! I am responsible for tracking employees and contact where I work and currently we have had 10 positive cases out of over 80 employees that have been tested. All but one employee had little to no symptoms. So over it! The only thing overwhelming is the number of people rushing in to be tested because someone else they know tested positive. Again, most of these people running to get tested have no symptoms whatsoever.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/20/covid-19-likely-to-become-as-endemic...
These would be cases reported in Oneida. In my earlier post about Vilas, these were fibs who were tested at home. Being a tourist destination and a higher than normal crowded one this year, there is no way to really track how many cases were actually contracted in northern Wisconsin. |
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| People don't get tested at the hospital unless they are admitted for something significant. The vast majority of testing is done at clinics or other sites. Hospitalizations are at a new high point, and that means people being admitted, not tested. Also, when you have positivity over 22%, you are not testing more, you are finding more cases. When testing was much lower earlier in the year, you did not have nearly this positivity rate. What about the growing number of deaths, are those due to testing as well? |
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Location: Ashland WI | The number of deaths is not increasing at the same rate in comparison to what it was in April.
Take a look at the "death" curve and tell me we have not flattened it.
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| 14ledo81 - 10/22/2020 4:01 PM
The number of deaths is not increasing at the same rate in comparison to what it was in April.
Take a look at the "death" curve and tell me we have not flattened it.
Talking about Wisconsin, that is a national chart. WI has gone up from 1,800 new cases per day to 3,300 seven day average over the past month. That may be success to you but not to me.
I was not able to copy the graph but in WI, the average number of daily deaths (7 day average) was under 10 per day in July, August and September. However, starting in October, the average deaths per day is just under 20 per day. Hardly a flat curve. |
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| Here is Wisconsin
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| 14ledo81 - 10/22/2020 4:43 PM
North of 8 - 10/22/2020 4:08 PM
14ledo81 - 10/22/2020 4:01 PM
The number of deaths is not increasing at the same rate in comparison to what it was in April.
Take a look at the "death" curve and tell me we have not flattened it.
Both Johnson and I were talking about Wisconsin, that is a national chart. WI has gone up from 1,800 new cases per day to 3,300 seven day average over the past month. That may be success to you but not to me.
I was not able to copy the graph but in WI, the average number of daily deaths (7 day average ) was under 10 per day in July, August and September. However, starting in October, the average deaths per day is just under 20 per day. Hardly a flat curve.
May be success to me? Really? You make a comment like that and expect me to continue (what I thought as informative ) discussion?
I didn’t know Johnson was taking about Wisconsin.
My original post talked about Johnson and what was happening in WI. You appeared to ignore that, hence my response. The death toll in WI is going straight up.
"Wisconsin reports record-high 48 coronavirus deaths as Sen. Johnson falsely claims state has flattened the curve" This was the headline in the Journal Sentinel today after Johnson addressed the Wis. Manufacturers Association yesterday and made the statement about what was happening in WI. Some states are doing much better. NY for instance has a positive rate of only about 1%, while WI has been bumping between 10 and 20% positive rate.
Edited by North of 8 10/22/2020 5:21 PM
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| I think the biggest, most confounding thing about this whole situation, is that there are a ton of people who get, and carry, this virus around, who never know they have it. I don't know of any other highly infectious agents, that don't show some symptoms to everyone who carries it. Really makes dealing with this thing, very difficult. Also, not having a simple, quick, accurate test. |
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Location: new richmond, wi. & isle, mn | 3,2,1........ There goes another thread |
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Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
Seems a breather might be needed here... Lets not get this thread killed my friends..
Stats can say a lot of things and be very deceiving depending on how they are reported and/or interpreted, so putting all those charts out there in my humble opinion, does not say a huge amount...a person can see a trend, but yet another can see a different trend...it is so easy to manipulate the stats to make them say what we want them to say...
A couple of things to consider...Yes, the number of positive cases is rising, so the PERCENTAGE of those testing positive AND passing away will fall, even though the number of deaths may be rising significantly as well. Testing has ramped up significantly, so the group size is huge compared to earlier in the year. Also, the largest group that is now testing positive are the younger age groups...not so much in the elderly populations... All of which affect the positivity rate, but lowers the percentages of those in hospitals, dying, etc. So...what looks to be flattening a curve really can be argued is not...but again...it all depends on how it is being interpreted.
I also feel that the older and more at risk populations are taking better steps to keep themselves safe because they have seen, heard, and some have experienced the loss, hardships, etc. and are staying as safe as they can, so my gut instinct says those populations are doing a much better job of keeping their risks down, thus lowering the death rate. Long term care facilities have ramped up their protocols (as was mentioned earlier in this thread) which helps to keep those numbers down and THAT I feel is what is flattening the curve...
I do think we are going to see surges in deaths across this country. Going into winter seasons where people are indoors for extended periods of time, schools (some in-person full time, some hybrid) we will see spread among our younger populations, which will eventually spread to older generations... In Minnesota for example, 19 counties are now shutting schools back down to full distance learning due to rising rates, and some 33 schools themselves have had breakouts in the building under hybrid learning programs...
We cannot be complacent...
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Mention a politician or political party, and it's gone. This place has for 20 years been a welcome respite from the insane bickering on other forms of social media, and it will continue to be.
Be safe if you can. Good fortune to you and yours if you cannot or choose not to be.
I'll spend my energy on that. Please do the same. |
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Location: Ashland WI | VMS - 10/22/2020 6:13 PM
A couple of things to consider...Yes, the number of positive cases is rising, so the PERCENTAGE of those testing positive AND passing away will fall,
even though the number of deaths may be rising significantly as well.
Testing has ramped up significantly, so the group size is huge compared to earlier in the year. Also, the largest group that is now testing positive are the younger age groups...not so much in the elderly populations... All of which affect the positivity rate, but lowers the percentages of those in hospitals, dying, etc. So...what looks to be flattening a curve really can be argued is not...but again...it all depends on how it is being interpreted.
The thing is, the number of deaths (nationwide) is less than it was in April. Not percentage based, but the actual number of deaths. |
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Location: Elk River, Minnesota | That is true....
But...we have also learned much since then, so my point being is the more at risk populations are doing more as individuals to protect themselves and our long term care facilities have ramped up their protocols.
Our own Steve Worrall I bet would attest to that point as he has been very open about it... He and many other are doing various things to stay as safe as possible... isolating as much as they can, avoiding any groups of people, etc. The personal responsibility part is huge for the at risk and elderly demographics, so yes...you are correct those are going down, but again, we cannot be complacent with our younger and least risk populations...there will be so many cases coming where kids will not know they are infected (asymptomatic) will be around grandparents who feel things are safe enough, etc.... Obviously not all, but it will happen... And we could see those death rates rise. Just being indoors for extended periods puts more people at risk.
We are headed into flu season, which spreads very quickly....think of how this could affect those who somehow contract covid and the flu around the same timeframe... This is coming...and it is going to happen, and it very well could affect all populations. I don't think our death rate is going to stay lower...I have a gut feeling it's going to rise...
Steve
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Location: Ashland WI | VMS - 10/23/2020 8:23 AM
That is true....
But...we have also learned much since then, so my point being is the more at risk populations are doing more as individuals to protect themselves and our long term care facilities have ramped up their protocols.
Our own Steve Worrall I bet would attest to that point as he has been very open about it... He and many other are doing various things to stay as safe as possible... isolating as much as they can, avoiding any groups of people, etc. The personal responsibility part is huge for the at risk and elderly demographics, so yes...you are correct those are going down, but again, we cannot be complacent with our younger and least risk populations...there will be so many cases coming where kids will not know they are infected (asymptomatic) will be around grandparents who feel things are safe enough, etc.... Obviously not all, but it will happen... And we could see those death rates rise. Just being indoors for extended periods puts more people at risk.
We are headed into flu season, which spreads very quickly....think of how this could affect those who somehow contract covid and the flu around the same timeframe... This is coming...and it is going to happen, and it very well could affect all populations. I don't think our death rate is going to stay lower...I have a gut feeling it's going to rise...
Steve
I agree we "could" see death rates rise, but my point is, right now, they are not rising significantly. Yet the case numbers are. Why is that? |
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Location: Ashland WI | And its not just in the US.
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| We are seeing the number of deaths rise right now (in Wisconsin and across the nation). Deaths generally follow hospitalization trends but about 2-3 weeks later. The death rate (the percentage of those who contract COVID and then die from it) has been dropping because we know a lot more about the virus and continue to have access to semi-effective treatments and there have been a couple of studies recognizing this across all age groups. It takes a while to catch up to a virus that is completely new to our species. The problem with a treatment only option (instead of prevention + treatment) is that health systems have limited capacity and human resources to respond. Additionally we will all be paying for the nearly 600,000 hospitalizations and counting in the form of increased insurance premiums for years to come. |
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Location: Elk River, Minnesota | 14ledo81 - 10/23/2020 8:36 AM
VMS - 10/23/2020 8:23 AM
That is true....
But...we have also learned much since then, so my point being is the more at risk populations are doing more as individuals to protect themselves and our long term care facilities have ramped up their protocols.
Our own Steve Worrall I bet would attest to that point as he has been very open about it... He and many other are doing various things to stay as safe as possible... isolating as much as they can, avoiding any groups of people, etc. The personal responsibility part is huge for the at risk and elderly demographics, so yes...you are correct those are going down, but again, we cannot be complacent with our younger and least risk populations...there will be so many cases coming where kids will not know they are infected (asymptomatic) will be around grandparents who feel things are safe enough, etc.... Obviously not all, but it will happen... And we could see those death rates rise. Just being indoors for extended periods puts more people at risk.
We are headed into flu season, which spreads very quickly....think of how this could affect those who somehow contract covid and the flu around the same timeframe... This is coming...and it is going to happen, and it very well could affect all populations. I don't think our death rate is going to stay lower...I have a gut feeling it's going to rise...
Steve
I agree we "could" see death rates rise, but my point is, right now, they are not rising significantly. Yet the case numbers are. Why is that?
I feel case numbers are going up because our younger generations (the demographics in their 20's and early 30's) who pack the bars and restaurants, college kids who decide to have big parties on open campuses, and are not practicing good social distancing, not wearing masks, and essentially defying what both authorities and experts say we should be doing. With testing happening more, they go hand-in-hand. More tests, higher number of reported cases.
The big thing I feel we need to notice in trends...look at our states in cooler climates...the rates are skyrocketing and hospitalizations are going up as well... The stat that I feel really represents what is going on would be the ratio of positive tests to all tests. This would reflect whether or not we are trending down or up overall, but we don't see that reported. We see total positive cases, total deaths, along with daily amounts, and yes...raw numbers must be interpreted. How we interpret those numbers can tell an entirely different story.
No matter what...regardless of numbers, rates, percentages, etc...We have to be more diligent...we have err on the side of caution CONSTANTLY...
Edited by VMS 10/23/2020 9:23 AM
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| Conservation Guy - 10/23/2020 8:54 AM
We are seeing the number of deaths rise right now (in Wisconsin and across the nation). Deaths generally follow hospitalization trends but about 2-3 weeks later. The death rate (the percentage of those who contract COVID and then die from it) has been dropping because we know a lot more about the virus and continue to have access to semi-effective treatments and there have been a couple of studies recognizing this across all age groups. It takes a while to catch up to a virus that is completely new to our species. The problem with a treatment only option (instead of prevention + treatment) is that health systems have limited capacity and human resources to respond. Additionally we will all be paying for the nearly 600,000 hospitalizations and counting in the form of increased insurance premiums for years to come.
Wis. Public Radio had someone from UW Health on today and that was there basic message, yes deaths are rising in WI but will likely rise even faster given the rise in hospitalizations.
My hope is that when a vaccine is available, people will get it. I keep seeing polls that say 50% or more would not. Local health dept. was finally able to secure the high dose flu vaccine for us old folks and we were there 15 minutes after they called and said they had it yesterday, snow storm and all. The nurse giving the shots said she has heard that as well and just shook her head, saying she hopes they change their minds. |
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Location: NorthCentral WI | As far as prevention, there are many ways to boost your immune system that are not being included at all in the discussion. But that shouldn't surprise anyone as that is how modern medicine works; just treat the symptoms. |
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| MartinTD - 10/23/2020 2:02 PM
As far as prevention, there are many ways to boost your immune system that are not being included at all in the discussion. But that shouldn't surprise anyone as that is how modern medicine works; just treat the symptoms.
Dr. Fauci has discussed that with the media, explaining he takes vitamin D. However, there has been additional discussion that if you could somehow put your immune system in overdrive that would be counter productive. The virus when it gets into the lungs creates an immune response and your immune system attacking the virus is what can damage your lungs. It is a type of auto-immune problem, where the immune system becomes part of the problem. NPR interviewed an author who had just published a book he had been researching for a couple years right as the pandemic hit. He mentioned this, that you really don't want your immune system working at hyper speed. Healthy yes, but not boosted beyond normal, healthy levels. It was an interesting hour on the immune system.
This is a quick description of what happens with one of the steroids Pres. Trump was given:
"Some of the most serious cases of Covid-19 are the result of an overreaction of a patient’s own immune system to the virus that causes the disease. This response, called a “cytokine storm,” can cause immune cells to attack not only the virus, but healthy tissues as well. Cytokine storms can cause permanent damage to the lungs, and in some cases, prove deadly.
That’s why dexamethasone is sometimes used as a treatment. It makes such an overreaction less likely by suppressing the body’s immune system. But the use of the drug comes with risks. If given too early, it can weaken the immune system when a patient needs it most."
Edited by North of 8 10/23/2020 3:31 PM
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | What's the Chances that other Boat, fishing, outdoor, Home Shows, Ect. will be cancelled the spring of 2021 ???
Disney and other venues remain open including collage football, NFL, and other sporting events.(although not at full capacity)
Life should not be cancelled.... Use Common sense, protect yourself and others around you, wash your hands often.
Drug abuse, alcohol abuse, and suicide have sky rocketed since people have been told to lock down.
Stress and Anxiety are at all time highs.
And one of the saddest things about this virus is that Our Children are missing out on growing up with a normal childhood experience.
The positive thing is, that this will be gone/controlled, hopefully soon.
G-Rome
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| Top H2O - 10/23/2020 4:18 PM
What's the Chances that other Boat, fishing, outdoor, Home Shows, Ect. will be cancelled the spring of 2021 ???
Disney and other venues remain open including collage football, NFL, and other sporting events.(although not at full capacity)
Life should not be cancelled.... Use Common sense, protect yourself and others around you, wash your hands often.
Drug abuse, alcohol abuse, and suicide have sky rocketed since people have been told to lock down.
Stress and Anxiety are at all time highs.
And one of the saddest things about this virus is that Our Children are missing out on growing up with a normal childhood experience.
The positive thing is, that this will be gone/controlled, hopefully soon.
G-Rome
I think anything before late spring/early summer won't happen. Wisconsin is playing tonight, but no spectators. The players say they do two things: practice, and their rooms for online classes, plus they get rapid tests frequently. Almost impossible to do that for the general population. Question G, will you get the vaccine when available? |
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| fatturtle011 - 10/23/2020 6:41 PM
N. of 8.
You have to be the loneliness left winger on the planet. Take a chill. Talk to your wife etc. you are boring. We fish.
Actually, I voted Republican for 30 years. And I fished yesterday. Live on lake with muskies. Sorry you don't like facts. I bet you find all kinds of facts boring. |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Fatturtle,
Come down into the Basement... For an education that might be good for you.
I will get the vaccine... Because I am considered a "High Risk" do to my Heart problems... My lungs fill up with water due to Heart Failure and Aridic Stenosis and without my meds I would be screwed... In a matter of a few days.
Covid is just a bump in the road for me .
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