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| Message Subject: Gas | |||
Jerry Newman |
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Location: 31 | I read and reread the different ethanol debates here and on-line, and thanks to Steve and Steve and a little more research I'll no longer have any issues with running the E10 in my boat. Thank you! Old habits are hard to break and I'll probably still lean towards the more stable high octane EO for winter storage though. With that said; because I've been using the EO exclusively, I'm going to wait until it's almost filter service time before running a couple of tanks of the E10 in case the ethanol loosens up some gunk. I thought this was one of the better statements I ran across - cheers! “E10 is certainly not as trouble-free as E0, especially the first few tankfulls. But for newer engines, those built after about 1991, there's no reason the initial problems can't be overcome. No less an authority than Mercury Marine says, "After the transition period from E0, E10 may actually be a superior marine fuel as it tends to keep low levels of water moving through the fuel system, keeping the system 'dry.'" The Ethanol Debate - Seaworthy Magazine - BoatUS Forget To Winterize Your Fuel - Trailering - BoatUS Magazine Three Ethanol Myths Clarified - BoatUS Magazine | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3480 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hi Jerry, Wanting to make sure I'm reading the following statement correctly..."E10 is not as trouble free as e0 especially for the first few tankfuls"... If I'm understanding the statement here, the authors are making a point about when a switch from e0 to e10 is made in any engine that has been run on e0 only, the initial problems of gumming up a carb or intake might occur as the first few tankfuls would loosen all the "stuff" that e0 leaves behind. Once that is done, then the engine is running cleaner, and stays cleaner. To everyone who is reading this thread... I'd suggest keeping a couple of things in mind if and when a transition to e10 is made.. Run a tank with seafoam through your engine to help get the cleaning process going. This will also stabilize your fuel if things sit for a while as well... Run the tank down as far as you feel comfortable doing, then fill it up with e10, then go about your normal use... Carry an extra fuel filter along just in case you get some stuff to let loose and you need to replace a filter. After a while, you will be good to go and have a much cleaner running engine. You may want to consider replacing spark plugs as well if for no other reason than for preventative maintenance. Heavy carbon (common in carbed 2 strokes) can foul plugs, but for many engines, plugs are cheap insurance. I know some motors it's a bit of an expense too and may not be the best money spent so I get not replacing plugs that might cost you an arm and a leg... I also suggest going to a synthetic oil for 2 strokes as well. They do not smoke anywhere near as much as conventional 2 stroke oil, so you aren't breathing in so many fumes as many people experience with carbed 2 strokes. Not as many out there these days, but they still exist yet. Overall, the big issue for everyone is proper maintenance. If the boat is going to sit for a while, stabilize the fuel... THAT will keep your engine from having fuel issues... Steve | ||
| Jerry Newman |
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Location: 31 | Yes, well stated as always Steve! As you know the E10s ethanol is a potent solvent. However, with today's blended fuels… for all I know the E0 I’ve been using (mostly from shell), has some type of additive that works along the same lines to "clean your engine". I'd guess that I'm in a very low percentage here having only used the E0 in my current boat, so most reading this probably do not need to be that concerned about it. As an aside: I'm pretty sure that a load of bad resort gas cost me a motor in the late 80s while fishing from the Angle LOTW area. I can also remember having to fill my boat up with their 5 gallon cans from the resort in Moore Bay in the early 90s because they did not have a storage tank. I didn't know enough about using a water separator filter at the time but remember being so nervous about those 5 gallon cans... I was changing out a special inline glass filter I had installed just before the motor like crazy. So yeah agree that carrying extra fuel and water separator filters is simply good due diligence while we travel about. Steve, this is probably not said often enough; I think you are an awesome asset to M1st! Thanks again! Edited by Jerry Newman 3/27/2019 2:13 PM | ||
| Smell_Esox |
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Posts: 267 | I've noticed when docked at a resort when staying overnite, that, in the morning, the entire boat can be covered in condensation. Could that condensation be present in the fueling hose/vent system as well? | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32886 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | In a very limited amount, as available air exchange is very low, and should be, with today's fuel systems, low. If there is any, E10 is your friend! | ||
| horsehunter |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | The manual for my Suzuki 115 (2012 ) Suzuki recommends alcohol free unleaded gasoline with a minimum octane rating of 91 The manual for my Suzuki 20 kicker (2017 ) Suzuki recommends alcohol free unleaded gasoline whenever possible with a minimum octane rating of 87 Suzuki does state that up to 10% ethanol will not void waranty but no gas containing methanol is to be used. On the Larry a lot of us leave our boats docked in a marina and I have never encountered a marina selling anything other than 91 octane ethanol free fuel. Edited by horsehunter 3/27/2019 2:45 PM | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32886 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | What is the difference between the build of a 4 stroke outboard and a 4 stroke automobile powerhead? All modern engines are built to meet EPA requirements and therefore are built to run E10. One way to find out whether that applies to your year and model engine is to see if it was legal to sell in California on it's build date. | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3480 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya, Agree with Steve Worrall here. E10 has been around for a long time and so have 4 stroke outboards now. They have been built to meet clean air requirements and will run very well and very cleanly. Mechanically, the engines as Steve mentioned are the same...injection systems are the up and coming systems that will be changing in 4 stroke technology as we are seeing with direct injection on automobiles...it is only a matter of time before that technology will come to outboards. At that point, there will be some issues to deal with, but it will NOT be due to E10 fuel...it will have to do with how the crankcase is equalized for pressure. Example: New Direct injection systems inject fuel directly into the combustion chamber bypassing the intake valves. These engines then have to have the pressure equalized through the PCV system, which sends crankcase air back to the combustion chamber...which goes directly through the valve train system. The air coming through will carry oil vapors, which over time will cake onto the valves (called "coking"). This happens because there is no fuel flowing over the intake valves to essentially "wash" them off. Inevitably, this will lead to a tear down of the valve train to scrub and clean, unless there is a "catch can" system in place to significantly reduce oil vapors. Currently, I don't believe this is an issue at this point... No matter what your owners manual recommends, E10 is THE way to go...for clean burning, clean running engine. Steve | ||
| horsehunter |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | So are you saying to disregard Suzuki's minimum 91 octane requirement. All oft the e10 I have ever seen in Canada is 87 or 88 octane and have never seen ethanol in the gas at a marina. | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3480 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya, This information is coming from the Suzuki owners manual dated April of 2006. It is located at the top left corner of the manual on page 3 of the manual itself...or page of the PDF document. I have the PDF downloaded, but it is too big to upload here. If you would like a copy of it, please feel free to PM me with an email address and I will gladly send it to you... "Suzuki highly recommends that you use alcohol-free unleaded gasoline whenever possible, with a minimum octane rating of 87. In some areas the only fuels that are available are oxygenated fuels. Oxygenated fuels which meet the minimum requirement and the requirements described below may be used in your outboard motor without jeopardizing the New Outboard Motor Limited Warranty" Any motor made after this I believe would also fall under this same requirement, so you are safe running 87 octane (90 RON) E10 fuel as stated directly in the manual. If your motor requires 91 octane as a minimum, you can run E10 92 octane and be fine. My gut says 87 will be the minimum. I also downloaded the 150/175 and the 90hp manuals from 2012 and they have the same overall statements. As for the gas at marinas, you are tied to what they have if you are in need to purchase. Many marinas might very well be falling into the same false information the oil companies want you to believe... They get what the people desire and from the propaganda they receive or as I would suspect in some cases perceive... Don't worry my friend....your motor is designed to run E10...you will be perfectly fine... Mix it up if you have to, but if E10 is available, I would not hesitate at all to use it.... Think about it...if you are in a wet environment and a touch of water gets into your tank...the E10 will get it through your system without any issue... Non-oxygenated fuel CANNOT do that... Steve Edited by VMS 3/27/2019 10:38 PM | ||
| horsehunter |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | So i wonder if Canadian and American manuals are different my information comes from the manuals that came with the motors. Can't say I have ever heard of oxygenated gas or 92e10. Going to go into the local fuel distributor this morning and find out exactly what's in it. I do know that all the gas sold locally ( huge area ) comes up the Imperial Oil pipeline to the tank farm where all distributors pick it up in tank trucks for delivery to retailers . So no mater what brand or non branded gas you buy it's basically the same . I understand any additives are mixed in the truck as it is loading for final delivery. I also slightly know the owner of a fleet of tank trucks ( a fisherman ) if he is in the office today I will see what he has to say about fuel. I know at one time he told me to buy my 91 octane at high volume branded stations as some of his drivers had been offered cash to put 87 in the 91 tank. | ||
| btfish |
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Posts: 410 Location: With my son on the water | I am no expert but. What I was told it is not a matter if today’s outboards will run with E10 gas, they will very well. But it’s a matter that they can cause issues stored in the boat tank because the alcohol can absorb moisture. Boats unlike cars don’t run the volume of fuel, don’t have the tanks emptied and refill at as high of frequency as a car, and most of the time sit unused for 6 months or more. For me this post is getting long, technically complected, and confusing. Maybe I am not very smart. But I am honestly not sure now what to use? Can anyone clarify exactly what’s the correct fuel to use? | ||
| Muskie Junkie |
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Posts: 250 | Great subject and discussion. It leads me to a question, I was told that when I run gas with the alcohol added that I need to add Star Brite type fuel additive. I am now wondering if this is really necessary. If this is too off topic, please let me know and I can start another thread. Thanks. Steve | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3480 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | btfish - 3/28/2019 7:41 AM I am no expert but. What I was told it is not a matter if today’s outboards will run with E10 gas, they will very well. But it’s a matter that they can cause issues stored in the boat tank because the alcohol can absorb moisture. Boats unlike cars don’t run the volume of fuel, don’t have the tanks emptied and refill at as high of frequency as a car, and most of the time sit unused for 6 months or more. For me this post is getting long, technically complected, and confusing. Maybe I am not very smart. But I am honestly not sure now what to use? Can anyone clarify exactly what’s the correct fuel to use? Good Morning!! Earlier in this thread an example was used about the water bonding with alcohol... In a 10 gallon tank, you would need to have a lot of water added to your tank of fuel (about a half cup of water) before any sort of issues would come up with separation of fluids. THAT is a bunch of water in your tank and for that amount to get in, it would somehow have to be externally introduced like leaving a gas cap off while on the water or during a huge rain storm. On some of our boats these days with 50 gallon tanks...that equates to around 2-1/2 cups of water in your tank... over a PINT!! That is just not going to happen without external introduction... The fact that the alcohol bonds with any water intrusion is a GOOD THING!! that bond will allow the water to go right through the combustion chamber and right out your exhaust with no issues. So...storage of ethanol fuel is actually THE BETTER option because of this bonding that takes place. There will NEVER be a condition that would allow that much water to be introduced to your fuel tank while stored... The internal portion of the tank is not exposed to air (dew in the mornings for example), and condensation would be so minimal, the alcohol in the tank bonds with it...keeping it from settling out and the fuel from separating. Non-oxygenated fuel CANNOT bond with water...thus the water settles to the bottom of your tank, goes right in your fuel inlet to the motor..THAT is when you have problems...and that is with ANY amount of water... Regardless of what fuel you choose to run, any storage situation should ALWAYS involve using a stabilizer of some sort. Sea Foam is a great product for this, as is STABIL, or any other brand of fuel stabilizer. We add those things to maintain the Octane level in the fuel... And guess what their main ingredient is in the can....ALCOHOL!! E10 is a superior fuel for your tank and your engine.... Although non-oxy 91 octane might get you a very tiny amount of extra HP, you run a much higher risk of old fuel, and unless you are running some sort of stabilizing agent in it with said alcohol, you run a much higher risk of water issues, even though that risk is very small to begin with... Steve Edited by VMS 3/28/2019 8:31 AM | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3480 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Muskie Junkie - 3/28/2019 7:48 AM Great subject and discussion. It leads me to a question, I was told that when I run gas with the alcohol added that I need to add Star Brite type fuel additive. I am now wondering if this is really necessary. If this is too off topic, please let me know and I can start another thread. Thanks. Steve Hiya, The fuel additive is only needed if your boat will be sitting for long lengths of time....it most likely has the stabilizing agents in it to prevent the fuel from losing octane. It will have nothing to do with water issues... Steve | ||
| horsehunter |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | So I went into the local fuel distributor and basiclly in Canada we have 2 types of gasoline 87 octane which contains 10% ethanol and 91 octane which contains no ethanol except for some Petro Canada stations that offer a boosted 94 octane that sells for about 15 cents a liter more than 91. All fuel in the area comes from the Imperial terminal regardless of brand. In Kingston Ont and surrounding area where I berth my boat all fuel comes from a Shell pipeline and terminal. I ws correct in saying additives are mixed in the tank truck. When I asked why there was a filter on the 87 octane pump and not the 91 i was told it was mandated by the government and when they first went to ethanol it would plug in a day with everything loosened from the system but now the filters last a couple of months. Apparently e92 and oxygenated fuel is only sold in the states. So because I have been using without problems alcohol free 91 octane as is highly recommended in the Canadian Manual that came with my main motor that is what I will continue to do. I will continue to start adding Stabil to my gas starting around Oct. I run both motors through a water separating filter and and have never seen any evidence of water in the fuel. When i said that i thought that ethanol in the fuel was only a gift to the farm lobby Brian said he wouldn't get into that but I wasn't too far off the mark. Edited by horsehunter 3/28/2019 9:37 AM | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3480 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | horsehunter - 3/28/2019 9:32 AM So I went into the local fuel distributor and basiclly in Canada we have 2 types of gasoline 87 octane which contains 10% ethanol and 91 octane which contains no ethanol except for some Petro Canada stations that offer a boosted 94 octane that sells for about 15 cents a liter more than 91. All fuel in the area comes from the Imperial terminal regardless of brand. In Kingston Ont and surrounding area where I berth my boat all fuel comes from a Shell pipeline and terminal. I ws correct in saying additives are mixed in the tank truck. When I asked why there was a filter on the 87 octane pump and not the 91 i was told it was mandated by the government and when they first went to ethanol it would plug in a day with everything loosened from the system but now the filters last a couple of months. Apparently e92 and oxygenated fuel is only sold in the states. So because I have been using without problems alcohol free 91 octane as is highly recommended in the Canadian Manual that came with my main motor that is what I will continue to do. I will continue to start adding Stabil to my gas starting around Oct. I run both motors through a water separating filter and and have never seen any evidence of water in the fuel. When i said that i thought that ethanol in the fuel was only a gift to the farm lobby Brian said he wouldn't get into that but I wasn't too far off the mark. I did find it interesting that they stated for the first few times, the tank filters at the pump would need to be changed often, but now every couple of months.... How often do they have to change the filters on the non-oxygenated tanks? And...if you read the whole thread.. the oil companies have been doing everything they can to get people to "buy into" staying with pure gasoline as that is a huge amount of money in THEIR pockets as well...even getting outboard manufacturing companies to buy into their line... Follow the money as Steve Worrall stated... the paper trail will be there... Ethanol is less expensive to produce, and less expensive for the consumer... WIN WIN for the consumer and less money to big oil who already put us over a barrel the way it is now...and it puts more money into the hands of hard working farmers of our respective countries. and...Consider what Jerry Newman said earlier in this thread...he got a batch of bad gas at a resort...where the fuel sits in a tank on an island and if it wasn't stabilized, could sit there for a long, long, time... would you put that in your tank even though it is 91 octane? If you choose to stay with 91 octane, that's great...you are having no issues with it, as are many many others... so long as it is fresh fuel, you most likely will not have any issues with it and all will be fine. Edited by VMS 3/28/2019 10:59 AM | ||
| horsehunter |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Talking to a friend who owns local Yamaha dealership, manual for outboards which he brings in directly from Japan (better price) call for 91 octane alcohol free. Manual for ATV's built in the states allow for e87. Steve: the 91 octane pumps have no filter. Steve shouldn't you be helping some kid figure out if Johnny had 2 apples and Billy had 5 plums how many peaches Mary has;-) Edited by horsehunter 3/28/2019 11:40 AM | ||
| horsehunter |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | X peaches | ||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3480 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | horsehunter - 3/28/2019 11:38 AM Talking to a friend who owns local Yamaha dealership, manual for outboards which he brings in directly from Japan (better price) call for 91 octane alcohol free. Manual for ATV's built in the states allow for e87. Steve: the 91 octane pumps have no filter. Steve shouldn't you be helping some kid figure out if Johnny had 2 apples and Billy had 5 plums how many peaches Mary has;-) My kids are testing on this very subject today. They have not figured out yet that Mary has Oranges and lives in Florida.  | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32886 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | horsehunter - 3/28/2019 9:32 AM So I went into the local fuel distributor and basiclly in Canada we have 2 types of gasoline 87 octane which contains 10% ethanol and 91 octane which contains no ethanol except for some Petro Canada stations that offer a boosted 94 octane that sells for about 15 cents a liter more than 91. All fuel in the area comes from the Imperial terminal regardless of brand. In Kingston Ont and surrounding area where I berth my boat all fuel comes from a Shell pipeline and terminal. I ws correct in saying additives are mixed in the tank truck. When I asked why there was a filter on the 87 octane pump and not the 91 i was told it was mandated by the government and when they first went to ethanol it would plug in a day with everything loosened from the system but now the filters last a couple of months. Apparently e92 and oxygenated fuel is only sold in the states. So because I have been using without problems alcohol free 91 octane as is highly recommended in the Canadian Manual that came with my main motor that is what I will continue to do. I will continue to start adding Stabil to my gas starting around Oct. I run both motors through a water separating filter and and have never seen any evidence of water in the fuel. When i said that i thought that ethanol in the fuel was only a gift to the farm lobby Brian said he wouldn't get into that but I wasn't too far off the mark. Actually, that's propaganda from the oil companies and the shocker, I am sure, is it's about market share and profits. I know quite a few folks who refused or didn't take the time to look at the facts and believe there's some less than truthful stuff spread around. I just took the time and did the due diligence to figure out the who of it. Facts are if you have an engine that was built in the last two decades it's designed to run on e10 and for good reason...it's cleaner. Use whatever you wish, but stabilize it. Shelf life on today's gasoline is a few weeks. 'When I asked why there was a filter on the 87 octane pump and not the 91 i was told it was mandated by the government and when they first went to ethanol it would plug in a day with everything loosened from the system but now the filters last a couple of months. Apparently e92 and oxygenated fuel is only sold in the states. ' So it's clear all that gunk was caused by the non-oxygenated fuel, or there would have been nothing for the e10 to begin cleaning out. And the 'system' is a tank, a fill port, and the pumps. Nothing too complicated. | ||
| undersized |
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Posts: 93 | So at 10% ethanol everything is wonderful for a boat. Even better than pure gas! But at 15% ethanol it may cause damage and is Federally prohinited for a boat. That last 5% is a killer... Attachments ----------------  PSX_20190330_173159.jpg (25KB - 324 downloads) | ||
| 4amuskie |
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| E10 fuels are fine. The problem is phase separation. It is why marine engines have water separation fuel filters. You dont see these on cars. The marine environment promotes water contamination in fuel tanks. Constant temp changes and wet environments cause condensation. .5% water will cause phase separation at 60 degrees. This number drops when it gets colder. Most fuel contains some water and it varies. It may not take much in a marine environment to get to the separation point. Be careful and check your filters especially when buying fuel from above ground tanks like LOTW. They have filters on their tanks too. For water. I would highly suggest a search on fuel phase separation for all and watch how phase separation occurs and why. Controlled E10 fuels are perfectly safe but they are not all controlled. Fuel cleanliness varies from station to station and tank to tank. Ethanol content can not exceed 10% but it can vary anywhere from 0-10%. Water in these fuel also varies. It does not take much water to contaminate fuel. When phase separation occurs both the ethanol and water separate together from the gas leaving the gasoline at a much lower octane rating. Both the ethanol/water and the gasoline in phase separation are bad and can quickly destroy an engine. Be careful. Edited by 4amuskie 3/31/2019 7:03 AM | |||
| Pepper |
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Posts: 1516 | I use the 10 0/0 ethanol here in Iowa and when I get yo Mn used non-oxy fuel also use a can of Stabile per cans directions each time I add gas. So far no problems | ||
| horsehunter |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | sworrall - 3/30/2019 12:03 AM So it's clear all that gunk was caused by the non-oxygenated fuel, or there would have been nothing for the e10 to begin cleaning out. And the 'system' is a tank, a fill port, and the pumps. Nothing too complicated. Watch the tanker driver drag the hose and fill nozzel across the ground and through the snow same with the guy that delivers your furnace oil the truck winds up the hose dragging it across the ground and why the filter on my oil tank was changed every fall.Some of those underground tanks have been in the groung 40 or more years and they are just getting around to digging them up and replacing them with plastic or some sort of fiberglass now. Starting to see more and more above ground tanks. God only knows how old the tanks at the tank farm or refineries are. My motors manual calls for a MINIMUM 91 octane in Ontario 91 contains no ethanol so I guess that's where I am. Edited by horsehunter 3/31/2019 7:16 AM | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32886 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | undersized - 3/30/2019 5:32 PM So at 10% ethanol everything is wonderful for a boat. Even better than pure gas! But at 15% ethanol it may cause damage and is Federally prohibited for a boat. That last 5% is a killer... OK, one total misconception at a time. There is absolutely no such thing at the pumps as 'pure gas'. Look in into the politics regarding e15 carefully, who lobbied against it and why and who lobbied for it and why. As mentioned a few times, specifically follow the money. Then look at WHY that sticker is on the pump and why it changes seasonally, what it actually means to your automobile and small engine and why it's currently law. Don't take any one source for gospel, look at the science and reality, and wonder why it's OK for an automobile engine, 4 stroke, designed for e10 but not a 4 stroke engine on some other piece of machinery. | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32886 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 4amuskie - 3/31/2019 5:00 AM E10 fuels are fine. The problem is phase separation. It is why marine engines have water separation fuel filters. You dont see these on cars. The marine environment promotes water contamination in fuel tanks. Constant temp changes and wet environments cause condensation. .5% water will cause phase separation at 60 degrees. This number drops when it gets colder. Most fuel contains some water and it varies. It may not take much in a marine environment to get to the separation point. Be careful and check your filters especially when buying fuel from above ground tanks like LOTW. They have filters on their tanks too. For water. I would highly suggest a search on fuel phase separation for all and watch how phase separation occurs and why. Controlled E10 fuels are perfectly safe but they are not all controlled. Fuel cleanliness varies from station to station and tank to tank. Ethanol content can not exceed 10% but it can vary anywhere from 0-10%. Water in these fuel also varies. It does not take much water to contaminate fuel. When phase separation occurs both the ethanol and water separate together from the gas leaving the gasoline at a much lower octane rating. Both the ethanol/water and the gasoline in phase separation are bad and can quickly destroy an engine. Be careful. Nope. It's literally impossible for e10 to absorb enough water to phase separate in your boat fuel tank and highly unlikely in any storage tank, see the other thread as to the science. That's total bunk and is propaganda, and you have the propaganda mixed together a bit. Sure, introduce water into the fuel system from a malfunction, accident, or other anomaly in a large volume, and it's possible, but the e10 is your friend in that case as it will, once water contacts the ethanol, absorb and harmlessly burn it off until there's so much in the system to cause what you described as apparently commonplace. If you have ethanol free fuel and that amount of water is introduced, pure H20 has already been run through your cylinders and the damage from that already done. In other words, un-mix your post using the science, and look at logic. Water in an ethanol free fuel tank ends up in it's pure form in your boat fuel tank, and all of it if you have the misfortune of being the first to fill up after water was introduced. And it would take very little in that tank opposed to an awful lot in the e10 tank. Keep in mind ethanol doesn't attract water in any way, and only absorbs water when it's introduced. What does one add to fuel to take care of introduced water, according to the data sheet on the additives? Alcohol. What's one of the most stabil chemicals in today's gasoline? Ethanol. What other chemicals are added to today's ethanol free gasoline that are corrosive and are solvents, cancer causing and dangerous? Once I get the complete list tomorrow from our gasoline expert source I'll post it. And it changes seasonally and regionally. Today's fuel is good for a few weeks at best without stabilization, unlike the gasoline of the past. Your boat fuel's enemy is not ethanol, it's the fact the fuel is not lasting long at all before beginning to break down without stabilization, which is why may small engine manufacturers suggest a stabilizer be added, and most conveniently have one available and a crazy high price. Your boat fuel's biggest issue is age. Don't buy gasoline from low turnover tanks. I've never seen a fuel/water separator on a resort fuel tank. Maybe I missed it. I'll take a look around next time I'm at a resort. | ||
| 4amuskie |
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| Propaganda??? Wow......Maybe you should ask some people at resorts with outside tanks. Ive never seen one without filters in my life. Ethanol is not their friend. Edited by 4amuskie 3/31/2019 4:31 PM | |||
| VMS |
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Posts: 3480 Location: Elk River, Minnesota | 4amuskie - 3/31/2019 4:11 PM Propaganda??? Wow......Maybe you should ask some people at resorts with outside tanks. Ive never seen one without filters in my life. Ethanol is not their friend. Yes...propaganda... Completely!! Oil is a Multi-BILLION dollar industry!! You really think the oil companies want to lose 10% or more of their business?!! They are working very very hard to put misinformation out there on how bad ethanol is. Ethanol is great!! For it not being their friend at the resorts....that is at best a line of hookey!! The ONLY reason for it to be an issue is at the direct change-over to ethanol....it's going to clean out the entire tank of all residues, contaminants, etc. that is left behind from PURE GASOLINE.... Think about that off season storage....That tank with the remaining pure fuel is just sitting there...breaking down...sludge, low octane, etc...or even worse...All that condensation people keep talking about... THAT WATER IS AT THE BOTTOM OF EVERY RESROT TANK THAT IS RUNNING PURE GASOLINE... And...guess where that's going when you fill up there.... RIGHT INTO YOUR TANK!! You think that if condensation only forms with ethanol you are completely missing the entire point of this and the other thread.... The ethanol will bond with the water sending it right through your engine and out safely!!! Pure gasoline cannot do that!! Earlier in the thread Horsehunter posted how the station tanks with E10 had fuel filters getting gummed up quickly, but now go a couple months without changing... BUT...the non-ethanol tanks are running WITHOUT a filter.... STOP AND THINK ABOUT THAT.... If that is not a red flag for people filling their tanks, you are running your own risk of any water, contaminants, gum that is at the BOTTOM OF THE TANK going INTO YOUR FUEL SYSTEM.... ETHANOL will get things clean and then IT KEEPS THINGS CLEAN!! There will be a short period where things do gum up filters due to the process!!! People need to trust science here... Science here and education is what teaches us to think and do things differently. Think about where we would be if we never started educating ourselves on catch and release... | ||
| 4amuskie |
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| Alrighty then......Iol | |||
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