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| In Indiana, the DNR stocks @ one fish per acre, but our fish don't reproduce naturally, and I doubt all of the fish they stock make it to adulthood. I also think the guys casting on our lakes do better than the guys that troll with 3 lines. It's just a different tool to hunt them. |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | start an Indiana trolling thread |
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| Sorry for the wrong thread Mr. Sled. How about this? We also troll a bunch of lakes around Hayward WISCONSIN 5 to 6 trips a year, and seldom see anybody else trolling, mostly guys casting. They seem to have plenty of nice fish. Caught my 1st Musky on Star Lake over 30 years ago. We fished your county a lot then, beautiful land! Thanks for having us up! |
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Posts: 968
Location: N.FIB | when do they vote on this and when will we find out if it passes,I can see both sides on this and don`t care if it passes or not. |
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Posts: 1291
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/fishing/documents/rules/motortrollingpropos... |
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| I have to admit there are times when I don't go to Vilas County simply because you cannot troll up there. It's fun to cast up there but if I'm going spend a week musky fishing for 6 straight days I would like to take a break and troll every now and then.
That's when we book our trip to Minnesota or Indiana even. 6 guys renting a cabin plus gas money and all the trimmings for a week must cost us close to $2500 dollars total. That's taking money out of Wisconsin and putting it into another state. That's real money lost because you cannot troll Vilas or Oneida.
Didn't a state record come out of Michigan this year weighing in at 58 pounds? They've been able to troll 3 lines in Michigan for the past 30+ years. It doesn't look like it harmed their fishery.
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Posts: 8782
| Guest - 3/6/2013 11:32 AM
[...]
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Didn't a state record come out of Michigan this year weighing in at 58 pounds? They've been able to troll 3 lines in Michigan for the past 30+ years. It doesn't look like it harmed their fishery.
How do you know? Maybe 30 years of trolling is what makes fish like that a once in a lifetime catch. |
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Posts: 397
| I have fished around webster where they allow trolling. I fish some small lakes and have not felt pressured. I think that when main motor trolling limit it to 1 line per person. I know more is better, but it may make more people feel the want to go along with it |
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI | esoxaddict - 3/6/2013 2:55 PM Guest - 3/6/2013 11:32 AM [...] .
Didn't a state record come out of Michigan this year weighing in at 58 pounds? They've been able to troll 3 lines in Michigan for the past 30+ years. It doesn't look like it harmed their fishery.
How do you know? Maybe 30 years of trolling is what makes fish like that a once in a lifetime catch. Spearing and habitat degradation is what causes our low density, not trolling don't drag Michigan into this silly discussion. Just to correct the facts... three lines has only been legal for a few years on any inland waters, before that it was two lines. |
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Posts: 269
Location: Oregon, WI | Don't really have an opinion about the trolling issue, but it is a nice to take a break from casting and still be fishing. One thing is for sure, they need to get rid of the "gray" definition of trolling vs. position fishing when dragging meat. |
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Posts: 15
| the only thing i dont like about the topic is knowing that all the pleasure boaters with no respect and there pontoon boats zig-zagging around us fisherman can now through out a line or 2, and that boat that that would never know what to do with a muskie or how to handle it would could put a fish or two in the boat and those fish probably will die without the proper handling tools.. with that being said most of the people that are goin to be out trolling with 6-10 lines are serious anglers with the gear to properly handle the fish, muskie stuff aint cheap. i do believe that everyone does have a right to fish for all fish that we inherently pay for in what ever way shape or form... trolling is not a garrentee by any means i have spent many hour trolling on lakes that do not get any trolling pressure with no results. the fish might go crazy for it at first cause most these open water fish have never seen a bait come by them before but it will slow down. it will also take pressure off the weed beds that can get pounded day in and day out.
will it deter me from goin out because someone might be trolling the lake i fish... no.. will it take anything outa my pocket.. no..will it take more fish out of a lake... yes.. will it help increase the number of anglers... yes... will it hopefully increase revenue... yes.... do i agree with allowing it... YES! |
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| JLR - 2/26/2013 8:41 PM
Maybe if they make the walleye season match the musky season and larger size li. I find it hard to believe that allowing trolling of three lines per gler is not going to have any negative impaancts on the fisheries, particularly smaller ones. from what I've seen larger lakes have more fisherman with more experience and better equipment. I don't buy the big lake small lake argument. If 3 lines is so bad why not reduce it to 1 line in Vilas? |
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Location: minocqua, wi. | Guest - 3/7/2013 12:04 PM
JLR - 2/26/2013 8:41 PM
Maybe if they make the walleye season match the musky season and larger size li. I find it hard to believe that allowing trolling of three lines per gler is not going to have any negative impaancts on the fisheries, particularly smaller ones. from what I've seen larger lakes have more fisherman with more experience and better equipment. I don't buy the big lake small lake argument. If 3 lines is so bad why not reduce it to 1 line in Vilas?
bingo ... because who wants to dunk a sucker and not be able to cast.
slippery slope this one |
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Posts: 656
Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | I remember back in the late 60's or early 70's, I was a kid, Lowrance came out with their little green box flasher fish finder. The first sonar unit made for freshwater fishing. Some of the more conservation minded folk here in Minnesota got all up in arms and worried that these fish finders were going to decimate the fish populations and a bill was introduced in the MN Legislature to ban the use of them. The bill didn't pass and the use of the little green box fish finder was allowed. Nowadays we have units with 10 inch full color screens, GPS, water temps, moon phases, 1 foot contour maps, radar, Sirius radio, all together in one nice unit. Well guess what? We still have plenty of fish in the lakes all over the country. The little green box didn't decimate the fish populations and their modern counterparts have not either.
You guys want to argue about trolling. That's fine, it's your state and you can regulate your fisheries however you want to but to argue that trolling is going to kill the fisheries is nonsense without any logic to it whatsoever. As has been pointed out by others in this thread trolling is allowed in every lake here in MN. It hasn't seemed to hurt the fisheries here for any species. We have great fishing here for walleyes, bass, pike, and muskies. In fact our muskie fisheries are so good that a lot you you guys from WS come here to fish for muskies. If trolling was going kill the fisheries in WS it would have happened years ago here in MN but it hasn't happened as you all know.
I understand you're concerned about over harvest. I agree with that concern but the keyword there is HARVEST. Regulate your harvest and not the fishing method. If you truly feel your fisheries are in danger then work to limit the harvest of fish. Change your bag limits, your seasons, your size limits, slot limits, etc. Doing those things will have more of an impact on the quality of your fishing than keeping trolling illegal. Over harvest kills lakes, you don't have to keep every walleye, pike, bass, muskie you catch as we all know already. Catching a fish by trolling will not increase the harvest over catching a fish by casting. Only keeping fish will increase the harvest and that doesn't matter if the fish was caught trolling, casting, jigging, position fishing, dead bait fishing, live bait fishing, backtrolling, flipping, pitching, drifting, or whatever method you care to mention.
I've trolled for hours, days even, without catching anything just as I've casted for hours and days without catching anything; all the while using the modern Lowrance 10 inch sonar/gps units and I've had days when the fishing was good with big fish or many fish caught and released. Trolling is no sure fired magical guarantee of catching fish and neither is casting nor is the use of the little green box flasher unit or it's modern counterpart.
Bottom line guys, the only thing that is going to kill a fishery is harvesting more fish than the lake can produce, either limit the harvest of fish or increase the stocking production, or both; but to say any particular method of fishing is going to kill a fishery is, as I said already, nonsense without logic.
If you don't like trolling and want it banned still. Fine keep it banned but at least be honest about it and say that it's banned simply because you don't like trolling but don't try and B.S. us and tell us that trolling is going to rape a lake.
Edited by fishpoop 3/15/2013 11:09 AM
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Location: The Yahara Chain | Excellant points made by Mr. Fishpoop. |
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Posts: 656
Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | @Bytor:
Thanks for the support. |
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| Nice Post Paul!! Great points |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Good points fishpoop, but don’t go assuming I or anyone else is against trolling because we simply don’t like it as that is NOT the case with me. I am fine with trolling as a technique. I have done it some in MI.
You are correct we need to manage harvest. I choose to fight this rule change as this is the MOST VIABLE way to manage harvest right now. Until we can get anglers to think about not keeping everything they catch, overbag, etc… we should not open up the trolling in N. WI. Opening it up prior to having the problem under control is the wrong way to go. Get the harvest under control first, and then open it up is what I am for.
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Location: 31 | CiscoKid - 3/15/2013 12:21 PM Good points fishpoop, but don’t go assuming I or anyone else is against trolling because we simply don’t like it as that is NOT the case with me. I am fine with trolling as a technique. I have done it some in MI. You are correct we need to manage harvest. I choose to fight this rule change as this is the MOST VIABLE way to manage harvest right now. Until we can get anglers to think about not keeping everything they catch, overbag, etc… we should not open up the trolling in N. WI. Opening it up prior to having the problem under control is the wrong way to go. Get the harvest under control first, and then open it up is what I am for. I hope you agree that Jordan Weeks knows a little more than we do regarding the over harvest concern... I believe he's addressed this pretty well with you on another site.
It's a given that things will most certainly change, and depending on your perspective, there will be some negative and some positive. However, according to Jordan Weeks the current trolling ban is the “poster child” for bad rules in Wisconsin... so according to this expert the positive far outweighs the negative.
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Location: 31 | fishpoop - 3/15/2013 10:57 AM I remember back in the late 60's or early 70's, I was a kid, Lowrance came out with their little green box flasher fish finder. The first sonar unit made for freshwater fishing. Some of the more conservation minded folk here in Minnesota got all up in arms and worried that these fish finders were going to decimate the fish populations and a bill was introduced in the MN Legislature to ban the use of them. The bill didn't pass and the use of the little green box fish finder was allowed. Nowadays we have units with 10 inch full color screens, GPS, water temps, moon phases, 1 foot contour maps, radar, Sirius radio, all together in one nice unit. Well guess what? We still have plenty of fish in the lakes all over the country. The little green box didn't decimate the fish populations and their modern counterparts have not either. You guys want to argue about trolling. That's fine, it's your state and you can regulate your fisheries however you want to but to argue that trolling is going to kill the fisheries is nonsense without any logic to it whatsoever. As has been pointed out by others in this thread trolling is allowed in every lake here in MN. It hasn't seemed to hurt the fisheries here for any species. We have great fishing here for walleyes, bass, pike, and muskies. In fact our muskie fisheries are so good that a lot you you guys from WS come here to fish for muskies. If trolling was going kill the fisheries in WS it would have happened years ago here in MN but it hasn't happened as you all know. I understand you're concerned about over harvest. I agree with that concern but the keyword there is HARVEST. Regulate your harvest and not the fishing method. If you truly feel your fisheries are in danger then work to limit the harvest of fish. Change your bag limits, your seasons, your size limits, slot limits, etc. Doing those things will have more of an impact on the quality of your fishing than keeping trolling illegal. Over harvest kills lakes, you don't have to keep every walleye, pike, bass, muskie you catch as we all know already. Catching a fish by trolling will not increase the harvest over catching a fish by casting. Only keeping fish will increase the harvest and that doesn't matter if the fish was caught trolling, casting, jigging, position fishing, dead bait fishing, live bait fishing, backtrolling, flipping, pitching, drifting, or whatever method you care to mention. I've trolled for hours, days even, without catching anything just as I've casted for hours and days without catching anything; all the while using the modern Lowrance 10 inch sonar/gps units and I've had days when the fishing was good with big fish or many fish caught and released. Trolling is no sure fired magical guarantee of catching fish and neither is casting nor is the use of the little green box flasher unit or it's modern counterpart. Bottom line guys, the only thing that is going to kill a fishery is harvesting more fish than the lake can produce, either limit the harvest of fish or increase the stocking production, or both; but to say any particular method of fishing is going to kill a fishery is, as I said already, nonsense without logic. If you don't like trolling and want it banned still. Fine keep it banned but at least be honest about it and say that it's banned simply because you don't like trolling but don't try and B.S. us and tell us that trolling is going to rape a lake. Standing O for this post! The green box story is priceless and along the lines of some Wisconsinites wanting to ban the Suick when introduced because it was an also an unfair advantage. Moving onto the obvious three lines trolling versus the one line in Minnesota forthcoming comparison; I don't see any plausible difference between allowing three line motor trolling versus the current regulation that allows for casting while floating two suckers. Three lines is three lines, especially during prime muskie fishing in the fall. If the ‘perceived problem” is allowing the three line motor trolling versus one line trolling, then I would hope that those opposed to lifting the ban would also be lobbying for “one line period”. That is the nature of the hypothetical question I posed on the other thread, even though that option is not on the ballot it hopefully sheds some light on the subject. |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | Catching in MN is great. The fishing sucks, though. And trolling is a factor.
Jerry, you obviously have a lot at stake here, I'm not going to guess or assume why that is, but I know how you can troll in Vilas with no problems at all:
Have a seat on the floor, have Jordan Weeks smash your kneecap in with a sledgehammer.
Then apply for a special trolling permit from the DNR.
Then you can troll to your heart's content. Maybe even catch that 58 1/4 pounder you're after.
Edited by Flambeauski 3/15/2013 1:15 PM
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Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | Flambeauski - 3/15/2013 1:08 PM
Catching in MN is great. The fishing sucks, though. And trolling is a factor.
I would be very interested to hear your reasons why you feel that the, "fishing sucks and trolling is a factor?" Please explain that to me. I really don't understand your point. I don't see how trolling affects your fishing experience in a negative manner if the catching is great. Thanks  |
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Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | CiscoKid - 3/15/2013 12:21 PM
Good points fishpoop, but don’t go assuming I or anyone else is against trolling because we simply don’t like it as that is NOT the case with me. I am fine with trolling as a technique. I have done it some in MI.
You are correct we need to manage harvest. I choose to fight this rule change as this is the MOST VIABLE way to manage harvest right now. Until we can get anglers to think about not keeping everything they catch, overbag, etc… we should not open up the trolling in N. WI. Opening it up prior to having the problem under control is the wrong way to go. Get the harvest under control first, and then open it up is what I am for.
Muskies Inc started in the late 60's and I think it was in the very early 70's that they started to preach catch and release and unless I'm very mistaken they were the first in the nation to do so. As the 70's progressed other major fishing organizations, publications, and businesses started to pick up on the catch and release bandwagon. At some point in the 80's In-Fisherman started to preach selective harvest of fish, keeping small fish only or certain species of fish for eating and releasing everything else. As the years went by all the major fishing industry got on board and the idea of catch and release fishing was everywhere. Even the state DNR's started to preach it in their fishing regulations books.
It's now 2013. How many more years need to go by before the fishing public at large learns that we can't keep everything we catch? I don't know but I'd say you need to put more effort into it rather than blame/ban trolling. Your problem isn't with a particular method of fishing, trolling, but rather with the attitude of the WS fishing public as a whole. It's a cultural problem and not a fishing method problem
If you are having problems in WS with over harvest/poaching, etc then I'd suggest you put your efforts into more Game Wardens and stiffer fines and penalties rather than continue to ban trolling as that just putting your finger in the dike.
Lastly, I was NOT pointing the finger at you or anyone else in particular. So please don'f feel like I was picking on anyone. I'm not here for flame wars, fights, or drama. I was speaking only in general terms. |
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| fishpoop - 3/15/2013 1:37 PM
Your problem isn't with a particular method of fishing, trolling, but rather with the attitude of the WS fishing public as a whole. It's a cultural problem and not a fishing method problem
If you are having problems in WS with over harvest/poaching, etc then I'd suggest you put your efforts into more Game Wardens and stiffer fines and penalties rather than continue to ban trolling as that just putting your finger in the dike.
Great post and I think you hit the nail on the head. Wisconsin needs a cultural shift from the harvest mentality to a C&R mentality. Lots of people practice catch and release in Wisconsin but a lot more still keep anything they catch. It's etched in their brains to keep anything and everything. Northern Wisconsin especially, and they are the ones who should be the champion of catch and release yet everytime a new length limit proposal comes out the North comes out in full force to shoot it down. Until another generation or two goes by I don't see Wisconsin changing in their harvest mentality. I think this rule change is long overdue and it will be a very nice surprise if passed.
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Posts: 656
Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | @Everyone:
It really doesn't matter to me personally if WS continues to ban trolling or decides to legalize it. It's not going to change my fishing or my life one way or another. I'm not posting about this to start fights, blame people, create drama, or anything else.
My only intent is to point out how silly some of the arguments against motor trolling are, and I'm sorry if that steps on some toes but some of the arguments are silly, based on what we already know about fisheries in other states and Canada that allows motor trolling. Also how silly it is to argue about motor trolling when you look at other technologies that have developed over the years that improve our fishing. Heck no one yells about underwater cameras, GPS, sonar, remote controlled electric motors, etc.
As I said already, if you want to continue to ban motor trolling then fine do so but be honest about the reasons for doing so. Just say it's non traditional in WS waters, or that we simply don't like it, or whatever. Just don't tell me that motor trolling is going to lead to a crash in the fisheries as a whole because we can see that it hasn't in other states nor has the advances in technology done so either.
If there is a problem with WS fisheries, and I don't know if there is or not, then address those issues by changing your bag limits, slot limits, size limits, stocking programs, public education about resources, enforcement of game laws, etc. Put your effort and $$ into what will do some real good. Just don't keep your finger in the dike and blame motor trolling. |
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| fishpoop - 3/15/2013 1:37 PM
Your problem isn't with a particular method of fishing, trolling, but rather with the attitude of the WS fishing public as a whole. It's a cultural problem and not a fishing method problem
If you are having problems in WS with over harvest/poaching, etc then I'd suggest you put your efforts into more Game Wardens and stiffer fines and penalties rather than continue to ban trolling as that just putting your finger in the dike.
Great post and I think you hit the nail on the head. Wisconsin needs a cultural shift from the harvest mentality to a serious C&R mentality. Lots of people practice catch and release in Wisconsin but a lot more still keep anything they catch. It's etched in their brains to keep anything and everything. Northern Wisconsin especially, and they are the ones who should be the champions of catch and release, yet everytime a new length limit proposal comes out the North comes out in full force to shoot it down. Until another generation or two goes by I don't see Wisconsin changing in their harvest mentality. I think this rule change is long overdue and it will be a very nice surprise if passed. I'd love to spend a week in Vilas again.
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Location: Smith Creek | fishpoop - 3/15/2013 1:17 PM
Flambeauski - 3/15/2013 1:08 PM
Catching in MN is great. The fishing sucks, though. And trolling is a factor.
I would be very interested to hear your reasons why you feel that the, "fishing sucks and trolling is a factor?" Please explain that to me. I really don't understand your point. I don't see how trolling affects your fishing experience in a negative manner if the catching is great. Thanks : )
Walleye opener in MN on 100,000 acre lakes is more of a headache than walleye opener in Iron County on a 1000 acre lake. There's more to fishing than catching fish.
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'Northern Wisconsin especially, and they are the ones who should be the champion of catch and release yet everytime a new length limit proposal comes out the North comes out in full force to shoot it down'
That's crap. It only takes a few folks to attend a CC meeting to swing a vote. It is those who DO support larger size limits and smaller bag limits who do NOT show up who are the issue. Don't generalize like that, it's just not accurate to do so.
We won the 50" limit on Pelican. The folks who cared enough to show up...did, this time.
'If you are having problems in WS with over harvest/poaching, etc then I'd suggest you put your efforts into more Game Wardens and stiffer fines and penalties rather than continue to ban trolling as that just putting your finger in the dike. '
What does one have to do with the other? And it's not because we 'don't care' or don't want to that we have enforcement weaknesses, it's because the DNR budget has been sliced by the economic disaster that was the latest recession to the point of nearly stupid.
I hate inaccurate, widely strewn generalizations. Keep it real. |
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Posts: 7039
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs |
Great post and I think you hit the nail on the head. Wisconsin needs a cultural shift from the harvest mentality to a C&R mentality. Lots of people practice catch and release in Wisconsin but a lot more still keep anything they catch. It's etched in their brains to keep anything and everything. Northern Wisconsin especially, and they are the ones who should be the champion of catch and release yet everytime a new length limit proposal comes out the North comes out in full force to shoot it down. Until another generation or two goes by I don't see Wisconsin changing in their harvest mentality. I think this rule change is long overdue and it will be a very nice surprise if passed.
Really? More people keep muskies than release them?
And if trolling were legal...more people would release muskies? |
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Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek | Yes, because once trolling is made legal the Southerners will show up and teach us Northerners ethics. |
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