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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | WOW, looking through all this I can see both side of this discussion. I have fish most of the lakes the MAC is going to be on. I have fish the PMTT, WMT, IMTT and other tournaments for years. People have to understand that most of these tournaments and anglers are good for the areas in most ways. There is always some bad you can come up with but most is good. I could go on and explain but that's only going to stir the pot.
People have to remember that the average catch for a tournament is around 10%. Some times it higher and some times it's lower. Now you take quality anglers who care about the fish, how they are handle and the tournament rules set to protect the fish first. Most of the time they are handled and released far better than the local fishermen or incidental catch by a walleye, bass or pan fishermen. Tournaments are not as bad as some make them out to be.
Now if the MAC helps the local lakes or clubs who help the lake with support toward the lakes fishery one can't help but think it's all good for everyone. Not everyone will be happy but most of the community will profit from each event. think about all the money that comes into town and even some angling patterns that will be learned by some who never tried that. Lots to be learned from tournaments. Maybe some just don't want others to learn how good certain patterns are or spots on the lake. I can see that.
Tournaments are hear to stay people. It's better to work with them and learn how to help them do what's best for that fishery. Most if not all tournament organizers will be happy to listen and accept advice and help. Like Jono, he is not into it but he is willing to do what is best for that fishery. Great guy with a love for muskies. He is one of the good guys who will say what many others want to say and stand up and help make a difference.
Tournaments are not that bad as far as boat pressure. Ease out is one at a time as stated and maybe some excessive traffic at the end while getting back into line at the end. I have fish tournaments that I thought would be a zoo and it was not bad. Muskie guys tend to pound spots rather than run and gun. Local pressure gets way out of hand on holiday weekends, by far worse than any tournament. And fish are handled worse by those anglers than tournament anglers. So now are we going to try and stop the weekend warriors from hurting our lakes?
If you really want to make a difference on your waters that are tournament waters I suggest helping the events in some way. You might be surprised at what you see and how they are run. The MAC is something I am looking into. I have to believe it is going to be the leader in the Muskie Tournament. So far I like how it's being thought out and the "Whats Best for the Fish" attitude.
Sorry if I pissed off some with this post but it's my 2 cents. I have fish quite a few tournaments in my life and I feel most tournaments are not bad for the lakes or communities. They are actually good for most. Lost of hype is also good and bad but that is another issue.................. |
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| Steve,
I hear where you are coming from and understand. As a professional fisheries biologist I am always concerned for the resource FIRST. Understanding that no where near 120 fish would be caught during the event really does not change my reasons for biological concern (which really cannot be disputed). I treat 1 or one hundred fish the same. I would think most of you would like me to do so...
Shep (whoever that is) called John out, so I spoke up.
My post was not an attack at the MAC or you Steve. I know you and have great reespect for what you do. You also know (as you indicated) that I have no say in this particular matter. Again, I stated my concerns-they are what they are.
This will be my last post-if ANYONE would like to talk to me regarding this matter further, you can find my phone number on the WIDNR website. I'd be more than happy to talk.
Regards,
JORDAN WEEKS |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Jordan, I hope I was able to answer some of your concerns, and I'm more than aware we are on the same 'side'. I appreciate your input. |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Mike;
You made the statement that Holiday weekend pressure is "way worse" than in a tournament.
Woudn't it make sense than to not have them both coincide?
You then say that tournament anglers handle fish better than those "weekend warriors".
That's a statement that is insulting to us "weekend warriors" and completely unfounded.
That vast majority of non-tournament anglers are guys who have been fishing for years, many of them have caught more fish than guys in tournaments, and use the utmost care when handling fish.
'
When is the last time you heard of a tournament angler going barbless, not measuring fish, or not taking them out of the water at all.
To put tournament anglers on some kind of a level above that of the rest of us is very arrogant IMHO.
JS |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | which came first ... the chicken or the egg? |
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| which came first ... the chicken or the egg?
to get to the other side.
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | john skarie - 1/18/2009 3:47 PM
You made the statement that Holiday weekend pressure is "way worse" than in a tournament.
Woudn't it make sense than to not have them both coincide?
JS
What's wrong with a little traffic? Shouldn't the winner of a big musky tournament be able to deal with all sorts of situation? Isn't high traffic/pressure a situation musky fisherman face in some places? With a shot at big money, why make it a cake walk? |
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Posts: 227
Location: Maple Grove | Pointer:
I think you should go back and read through the posts as has been advised to everyone else on several occasions. I think you'll more fully understand Mr. Skarie's point after that.
Joe Olstadt |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
My concern is in no way directed towards the hardship of the tournament angler.
Some common sense things like safety and the general public being disgruntled by a large group of tournament fishermen come to mind.
I'm glad you guys feel that these types of concerns are so un-warranted that you can make jokes about it.
It shows a lot of respect for the others that you share the water with.
It's obvious that these issues will not be addressed here.
Holcombe has had more than one fatal accident on holiday weekends in the past due to drunk boat operators.
I honestly hope none of you fall into a situation like that, even though most of you aren't willing to admit that this holiday tournament could be increasing the odds of something like that happening.
JS |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | I understand John's point just fine. Was just using a quote as a base for my comment.
"Holcombe has had more than one fatal accident on holiday weekends in the past due to drunk boat operators."
So why not ban all traffic then? Make it illegal to be on the water on holidays. If I had the money, I'd fish it. It's about being a responsible angler and boater. I'd bet the MAC has taken the proper measures to prevent an incident.
The general public will be disgruntled about something, in some form or another, on just about any occasion. Sometimes you just ignore some groups of people.
No one has said these concerns are un-warranted, and has nothing to do with respect. |
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| sometimes a joke is just a joke, John, and meant to lighten the mood.
it's not intended to belittle your perspective, which is a reasonable concern and presented in a reasonable way.
in point of fact, as part of my professional development i actually spoke with one of the drunk boaters who killed some people at night up on nearby Wissota. holiday weekend traffic is a legitimate issue on any body of water.
anyone who says that it won't matter for the tournament boats and non-tournament boats to be out there on Labor Day weekend together is simply fooling themselves. personally i'm not sure it'll be a problem, per se, but it's definitely the reality and an issue worth discussing.
for example, i've fished Holcombe and it's relatively constricted since it's a river system. this is compounded when boat traffic is heavy. in light of this i'd be in favor of a tournament boat speed limit (40mph?) as part of the rules for that event.
as for fish handling, i think it's fair to say that most anglers willing to pony up $750 to fish a tournament are experienced and likely to be skilled at safely and quickly returning the fish to the water. on top of this i think everyone agrees that the rules are designed in a way that gives good measurements while also being fish-friendly.
obviously there are many skilled non-tourney anglers who do this also.
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Well as someone who has put on over a dozen tournaments, it's also about being a responsible tournament organizer.
Which means you do your best to avoid conflicts with the rest of the people who also use the waters.
Call MAC??
I think they are well aware of every issue and point of view that's been brought up here.
I also think it would be pointless as others have already done that.
JS |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Yes, others have called. Reasonable folks with a dog in this hunt should.
We will be off the water well before the bulk of the Sunday traffic gets out there. Monday will even be less of an issue, because most 'vacationing' folks are on the way home that afternoon, ask anyone trying to travel. We are launching from a private facility, and will not have a single boat parked in anyone's way. There will be event enforced 'no wake zones' as well. Boats will come in using a flight system, so there will be no rush to the landing.
Anyone drunk and on the water at that early hour has a real problem.
Many other tournaments have taken place on Holiday weekends, with no disastrous results. AIM has an event on the 4th of July.
One needs simply to be off the water before the heavy traffic arrives, and those fishing the MAC on Holcombe will do exactly that.
By the way, the MAC rules, scoring system, what happens in case of a point tie, payouts, and all other pertinent details are available in the documents you will receive by calling 800.359.4416. ext 128.
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Posts: 227
Location: Maple Grove | Can you post what the tournament hours for Holcombe will be? I am assuming by your post they will be different from the already posted hours.
Joe Olstadt |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The last boat should be off the water by 1 PM. |
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | For some reason the other thread was removed....I aske there is there a web site for the MAC? If so what is it, I was not able to locate it on a google search....Thanks
Editor's note:
Not removed, moved. |
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Posts: 2323
Location: Stevens Point, WI | The MAC website will be up and running within the next couple weeks, as stated previously. ALL the rules, registrations, scoring, and tentative schedule information is available from MAC by telephone request at 800.359.4416 or email at [email protected]. |
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| The MAC website address is http://www.muskieanglerscircuit.com/ . All official announcements will be posted there and I assume here as well. |
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| Hey John
I am having a hard time finding Jordan Weeks so I can contact him also.
Do you have his contact info?
I have a few questions that he may be able to help with.
Any help would be appreciated. |
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| This will be my last post-if ANYONE would like to talk to me regarding this matter further, you can find my phone number on the WIDNR website. I'd be more than happy to talk.
Regards,
JORDAN WEEKS |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | My comment you quoted " tournament anglers handle fish better than those "weekend warriors"." was not meant to be taken like you posted. I fish on one of the most pressured waters in Wisconsin. I see weekend anglers that do not have a clue. Most are learning as they go. Weekend by weekend they get better and better at what they long to learn. I did not intend to insult anyone. Just pointing out what I have seen through my years on the water and tournaments. Please don't twist things around to argue.
John Skarie you said:
That's a statement that is insulting to us "weekend warriors" and completely unfounded. That vast majority of non-tournament anglers are guys who have been fishing for years, many of them have caught more fish than guys in tournaments, and use the utmost care when handling fish.
*YES, TRUE. Also they will be more likely to fish tournaments in the future because of it. Confidence and skills come with experience. Tournaments on their lake should spark interest. Perfect time to test skills against others with big rewards.
When is the last time you heard of a tournament angler going barbless, not measuring fish, or not taking them out of the water at all.
* Barbless fishing is your choice. Not measuring fish a fish in a tournament would be hard to do. Now it's bad to touch a muskie? I hear your points but lets get real. To put tournament anglers on some kind of a level above that of the rest of us is very arrogant IMHO.
*This is your words not mine. I stated that most tournament guys have experience and with that comes better care for the fish. Your idea of a weekend warrior is not the same as mine. Take a good look around you on any average weekend. Rental boats, pontoons, canoes, row boats, speed boats all are muskie fishermen too. Not that there is anything wrong with that but do you really think they all handle muskies with the same care as tournament anglers?
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| Mike
I have to agree with you on that one. I have seen many fish that people have misshandled and later came belly up. I am happy that they are out using the resorce but it takes time to learn what to do with a fish.
For the people that have been offended ask your self why we as musky fisherman spen so much time talking about good release and try to help others learn. If this did not happen the average person would not know how important good fish handling is.
As a guide and tournament angler myself I feel that I take more time than most doing what is good for the fish.
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| I am looking to get a hold of Jordan Weeks but I cant find him on the DNR site like he stated? ? ?
Anyone have the contact info for him?
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| http://dnr.wi.gov/staffdir/DNREmpRead.asp?PersonSNO=45275 |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
People who are new to the sport obviously don't handle fish like seasoned anglers do, tournament fishermen or otherwise.
But I'll stand by my contention that the vast majority of muskie anglers take as much or greater care of fish than tournament anglers do. To argue that tournaments are "ok" because tournament anglers are at another level of fish handling is simply ridiculous. They add a considerably amount of concentrated pressure on a lake that can't be ignored or made out to be a "non-issue" just because of the fact they are tournament "pros".
All being in a tournament means is you paid the entry fee, it doesn't mean you have a certain set of skills or experience.
JS
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| All being in a tournament means is you paid the entry fee, it doesn't mean you have a certain set of skills or experience.
true, it's not causal.
it is however highly correlated.
plopping down $750 for a weekend isn't something most relatively inexperienced muskie fisherman are likely to do. they might, they can, but it's less likely.
and really, isn't this sidebar just contention for the sake of contention?
thankfully we live during a time when fish are likely to be handled carefully by most of the tournament anglers and many of the non-tournament anglers. that's a result of hard work done by those who came before us.
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| Mr Skarie
Maybe you should spend some time fishing with some of us that fish tournaments. I would think that your view would change very quickly about who we are and what we do.
Also fishing tournaments takes a whole lot more than just paying the entry fee. |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN | I'm not trying to attack tournament anglers, I just don't agree with the argument presented by some of them that the pressure they put on a lake is somehow not as "bad" as that put on by others.
Most of them may be the exceptional fish handlers, but not all of them.
The very nature of a tournament requires extra fish handling, that can't be denied.
JS
Edited by john skarie 1/22/2009 11:16 AM
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| Point taken
But I dont get the extra presure thing no one says any thing about opening day and holidays when the presure is also at its peak? At least in a tournament situation you have people that respect the resource. |
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| "To argue that tournaments are "ok" because tournament anglers are at another level of fish handling is simply ridiculous. They add a considerably amount of concentrated pressure on a lake that can't be ignored or made out to be a "non-issue" just because of the fact they are tournament "pros"."
John, if tournaments are not "Ok" for the reason you state, and they also add a lot of pressure which you deem as not a good thing, then why is it "OK" that you fish them? Seeing as how you are on another website discussing your involvement in a MI tournament?
I don't get it? |
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