|
|
| These out of state guides must be doing a pretty good job catching fish on "your" lakes. Just as an FYI...of the 5 non-resident guides that were previously listed...one left in early August to teach, and another didn't even get up there until late July. So, the entire muskie system is out of whack because of three and a half guides? |
|
| |
|
Location: Oswego, IL | You can do whatever you want if it PRIVATE property. Thats the only way your going to get what you want. |
|
| |
|
Location: Oswego, IL | sworrall - 9/9/2009 1:54 PM
IMHO the issue probably will pass, as it has everywhere else this has happened, but it will probably pass sorta like a kidney stone. :)
Hilarious! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | john skarie - 9/9/2009 12:07 PM
Once again, a core point here is using a public resource to make money. This isn't about private business or products.
Shouldn't only the "owners" of that resource, the MN public be allowed to make money from it? I think that is a very valid point. Apparently many of you do not.
They are making their money off their knowledge not the fish. a lump of coal is simply a rock. Without knowledge it stays a rock. With knowledge it can be turned into many 'things". |
|
| |
|
Location: Oswego, IL | "Once again, a core point here is using a public resource to make money. This isn't about private business or products.
Shouldn't only the "owners" of that resource, the MN public be allowed to make money from it? I think that is a very valid point. Apparently many of you do not."
Who proffits from tournaments? The residents? I dont think so. People are bashing out of state guides, yet Tounrys bring in hundreds at a time and make more money. Simply living somewhere doesnt give "ownership" to anything. Buy the land, buy the fish, pay taxes on that property, and its yours. If you "owned" it you would be paying taxes on that property also, not just your home. Your property taxes not only go to the DNR but also pay for schools, law enforcement, fire fighters, etc... do you own the fire truck, and the gym, and the library?
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | Guest,
According to a lot of people on this thread, that is a good thing. Maybe now that guide won't drive 1000 miles to spend his hard earned dollars in Minnesota. Neither will his clients. Problem solved........ |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | There seems to be about 10 to 15 different topics being discussed here, most of which spin off of two main ones - giving back to the resource and pressure. So I'd like to create another tangent off of the pressure topic.
As we look to add new waters in the state, we know the main topics that opposition will bring up. We can easily address some of them. But one common point of opposition as of late is boating pressure that it will create on "their" lake. As we can see here, musky anglers are frustrated with the always increasing pressure on existing musky waters. So when looking to stock new waters, how are we going to address this? If opposition is dead set against it because of pressure, how are we going to convince them that stocking muskies in this new lake is going to be beneficial to the water which they currently enjoy?
When I look at the Gull Lake situation from a couple years ago, the opposition was generally either uneducated or trying to twist the truth in order to get more people against the stocking. The people in favor of the stocking were generally very straight forward, presenting factual evidence and being very professional about it. I think this is the only way to go about it and be seen in the public eye as a group that has the best interest of the resource in mind. Trying to convince the opposition that pressure won't be anything to worry about would be misleading. Reading this thread is evidence of that. So how do we approach this topic with the opposition? Instead of bickering amongst each other, we need to work together to figure out how to address these kinds of issues. We need to learn how to work with the opposition to reach common ground. But how do we do that is the question that needs to be answered so we can actually reach those goals.
Aaron |
|
| |
|
Location: Oswego, IL | We should all start digging a new lake together that boarders all of us so its equally another argument for the future. I will start with a shovel in my back yard tonight. Meet you all in MN sometime in 2025. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN | Musky 23, everyone in MN "owns" our resources. It's not a school of thought, it's reality.
We share that resource with others. It's not a right to be able to hunt and fish in MN, it's a privalege bestowed upon you by our state.
There are areas of the West where you can't hunt if you aren't a resident. In Alaska you can't hunt without hiring a guide or oufitter if you aren't a resident. There are many states that have rules which apply to non-residents that do not apply to residents in regards to public resources.
The fact is that it doesn't belong to everyone, and it's the choice of each individual state as to what extent non-residents can utilize it's resources.
JS
Edited by john skarie 9/9/2009 3:53 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2084
| So JS thats the way you want it? - My family "feeds" most of the deer and pheasants near a large public hunting area in Iowa - I guess these are "our" deer and pheasants - NO non-residents??? come on seriously.. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1516
| I guess you haven't tried to get on private land to hunt deer and pheasant in Iowa. Good luck Oh that's right your family does own private land. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said no non-residents. I've fished with non-residents more days this year than I have with MN boys. People from WI and ND.
But to think that a state doesn't have the right to regulate non-resident usasge of resources is ridiculous, which is what many of you are trying to say.
JS
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2084
| Yep 5000 acres of the cleanist farmers you will ever see so not much hunting for me on family land- but have killed hundreds of birds on th public land that ajoins...Anyway.. my point was all sates should just lock down their unique hunting and fishing opportunities? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2084
| john skarie - 9/9/2009 3:47 PM
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said no non-residents. I've fished with non-residents more days this year than I have with MN boys. People from WI and ND.
But to think that a state doesn't have the right to regulate non-resident usasge of resources is ridiculous, which is what many of you are trying to say.
JS
Is there a single public lake in the US that allows residents to fish but not non-residents? Or set different limits once you buy an out of state licenses? (Serious question)
Edited by IAJustin 9/9/2009 3:53 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 186
Location: West Chicago, IL | Regulate based on what? The DNR determining that a resourse is being harmed by over utilization or a few locals who don't like others fishing "their" lakes. If the DNR thought the fishery was being harmed, they'd regulate. Sorry to be on such a soap box about this but the lakes around where I live get WAY WAY more pressure than any lake in Minnesota and yet we still have healthy viable fisheries and we still catch fish. This whole argument is not based on facts at all. We'd all like to fish on lakes where there is less fishing and boating pressure but it's not the case. The popularity of this sport has done a lot of good things for Minnesota and now you have to take the good with the bad. Do you honestly think the Minnesota DNR would have the stocking program it currently has if there wasn't a high utilization of the resource? If muskie fishing wasn't popular, you'd all have A LOT less lakes that were stocked and the fishing wouldn't be anywhere what it is for anyone. Fishing pressure is cyclical. The facts are that for most species, the people fishing over the past 10 years has declined significantly. Muskies are an exception to that trend. Maybe we should all just be happy that the sport has grown and more and new lakes are being stocked everywhere (except Ohio). So many outdoor sports are dying out due to lack of interest and the amount of things available for kids and young adults to do. If musky fishing keeps its popularity and it is a reason kids get back involed in the outdoors, I think it's a great thing and hope to see all of these boats out there in the future. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32955
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Since federal excise taxes we ALL pay and resident AND non resident licenses fund a goodly portion of the MNDNR's budget, and since the MNDNR is most assuredly lobbied hard by Tourism, I bet they won't be real excited about an exclusionary policy proposal. Just a guess.
And, I'm sure everyone already knows the privilege to hunt and fish is extended to residents as well as non residents by the State, and can be taken away by the State from both or either, but not without incredibly solid political and social footing. Ask us up here in Northern WI, we were educated in a heck of a hurry back in the early 80's. Only one portion of our population/society has the RIGHT to fish and hunt, and it ain't me. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | Scott, you're telling me an Illinois guide sat down with his clients and talked about emptying the beer cooler to fit muskies in there and they were serious. They had to be joking or I am completely out of touch with reality (which I'm not ruling out).
I can remember Miltona back in '05. I used to fish it with Joe "Slim"Renner and there was NO pressure whatsoever. Now, there is "too much pressure" and didn't he catch a 56 and a 54 in the same week this year? Have any of you Minnesotans ever been to Deer or Bone in Polk County? Those lakes have been POUNDED by Wisconsin and Minnesota residents for 40 years. Even with spearing, the quality and quantity is still there. Sure, the fish aren't where they used to be, but the cream always rises to the top. Change tactics or get left behind. WI residents dealt with pressure long before MN residents had to deal with it at all.
And as far as resources go, didn't the first batches of MN stocked fish come from the LCO/Bone Lake strain out of WI? Waconia and Mille Lacs were stocked with WI fish without question. So, if your arguments hold true, then those big ones caught out of Mille Lacs 2 years ago were MY FISH! I want them back or stricken from the records because they were MINE! |
|
| |
|
Location: Oswego, IL | Wow very interesting, actually most interesting thing I read in 150 posts. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 23
| .... Sorry wrong spot
Edited by Scottie Thomas 9/9/2009 4:28 PM
|
|
| |
|
| This is just dumb, nothing more than an argument over what's mine and what's yours with a whole lot of jealousy thrown in for good measure.
By the standards some of you are following, Brent Favre should not be allowed to QB your Queens because he's an out-of-stater. Oh, wait, Brent's okay but you don't like the non-resident guides because they didn't contribute anything to the development of the Minnesota muskie fishery. And Brent donated to the construction of the Metrodome? It's the same argument, only different circumstances. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3165
| MUSKY 23
I dont see your point about "do you think Minnesota would have the stocking program it has now if it wasnt for high utilization" apart from two how many new lakes have we got in the last 10 years???,,6-7 years ago people hardly knew Minnesota existed has a muskie destination,,99% of our muskie lakes were designated/chosen loooooong before the boom. DNR has always tried to stock muskies 1 per littorial acre and still do,,do you know that weve actually 'lost' lakes there are tiger lakes that dont get stocked anymore because they dont produce 'trophy/quality fishing" Minnesota DNR has always said they manage the muskie has a trophy species and stock accordingly,, Im not seeing the policy change that you refer to???? |
|
| |
|
Location: Oswego, IL | Joe musky - 9/7/2009 10:27 PM
Been reading the forums for quite some time, and finally decided to join the ranks.
There was a thread that was pulled on here earlier today that caught my interest. It was about some guide conflicts. I know the guide accused, and he is a great guide, fisherman, and guy. The post honestly raises some interesting questions.
I'll try to pose this as a non-argumentative topic, however it may turn that way once the internet brawlers take hold.
There has always been some localism in fishing. And since the sport is growing by leaps and bounds, there is definitely going to be some tension when fisherman and guides collide. Maybe jokes, maybe fights, who knows but it's bound to happen.
I've heard of pranks, vandalism, fights, and even guns being drawn to ward off foreign guides.
As a Wisconsin turned Minnesotan, I've noticed the guides are blossoming like Asian beetles. Many of which have out of state tags on their rigs. So I guess the question is, do you hire an out of stater or a local guide and why? Should there be a fee for out of towner guides to work in another state? And should the non-local guides show respect the local guides? And if so, how?
It is obvious, MN has worked hard to maintain a quality fishery over the last several decades, and the inconsideration from guides with no specific ties to an area may do nothing but harm it I fear.
These are obviously some of the thoughts that popped into my head when looking at some related posts. Do you all feel the same or not?
Hope I'm not crossing any forum guidelines, Like I said, I'm new to posting.
Joe Albrecht
Just incase you all forgot the original post. Take a deep breath, read. Now what the heck are we talking about now? LOL! Wow a day went by already. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3511
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hi Everyone,
In state, out of state, guide, no guide...in all honesty, does it really make a difference? I will agree that Guides who promote their business can and do bring in more people (both locally and out of state) to fish for these great fish, and I do feel that it all adds to the increased pressure we see on our lakes..A good guide can turn a person on to fishing for these critters, and all it takes is one fish to do it.
Is there a way around it? I don't know...the resource is limited and the sport is growing...right now, I see a massive demand for spots to fish and a very limited supply to meet the demand.
As stated, In MN, through various efforts of MI and other organizations, the addition of the 8 lakes to our waters will help spread out the people...but we must also keep in mind that through all that acreage as stated, it has been said that 90% of the fish use only 10% of the water. That 10% is what everyone is looking to be on for their fish....
To me the main issue is one of people being frustrated that the waters they "own" (which I think is a bad way to state it) is they are seeing more and more people on them and there is nothing they can do about it....it's where this sport is heading right now...but I don't feel it is due to the out-of-state guides...it is just more people taking interest in this great sport.
What I DO see happening is many people getting frustrated with not catching fish, not seeing fish in some cases, and finally just giving up on the sport after some time... The bad thing (for me) is, I feel myself going this way, where the pleasure to be out there is not as much fun due to how much tougher the fishing has become. I will never give up or throw in that towel....it's been in my blood for 30 years....others will, though and I do feel the sport will see a plateau at some point.
What it (the pressure, etc) does tell me, though, is that I NEED TO FIND NEW METHODS, NEW LOCATIONS, AND NEW PATTERNS for the waters I choose to fish. Am I happy about that?....not really...it means more work for me, but there are still fish to be caught...it just has to be by different means. Troublesome part is time on the water to try those experiments and see if something pops. Find that key and you find the fish... Then, when everyone starts to catch on, the process starts again.
Steve |
|
| |
|
Posts: 186
Location: West Chicago, IL | Hooker,
Simply, the state wouldn't continue to stock fish if there wasn't a high demand for the fish. You don't see them stocking carp do you? Look at Ohio, they've stopped stocking muskies due to the fact that the state doesn't feel like they're getting their bang for their buck. Your DNR had the fore sight to see what they could create, they didn't stock the muskies in all these lakes just for fun. While the amount they stock per acre has stayed the same, they obviously have stocked a lot of new lakes over the past 20 years. They did this so people would come and fish for muskies, not so they could just destroy the walleye population...hahaha  |
|
| |
|
Location: Oswego, IL | I am confused, how do you blame a guide for all the pressure on your lakes? They have 1 BOAT, with maybe 2 other guys on it. 3 people!! You not fishing a puddle are you? The lake is over there ---------->
Edited by muskiewhored 9/9/2009 4:47 PM
|
|
| |
|
| So let's say you charge the out of state guides a license fee that the resident guides don't have to pay. What changes?? Short of a marginal amount of revenue that could potentialy be used for stocking, you still have tons of out of state anglers using that resource, and likely coming back again and again to fish those lakes. Where is the benefit? It sems to me the arguments all boil down to "too many people fishing"... I don't see how that's going to change even if one has to be a resident of MN to guide there.
You can't put the cat back in the bag. MN has the best trophy muskie fishing opportunities in the U.S. Everyone knows this, and that's why everyone fishes there. No matter what we do withour home waters here in IL, for example, they will NEVER rival those of MN, because the lake ecosystems simply aren't the same. The same goes for WI, and all the other states where muskies have been stocked. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 639
Location: Hudson, WI | VMS...a Minnesota resident who has the right idea. Post of the day. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 186
Location: West Chicago, IL | That's why we ALL have to continue to support Minnesota and their efforts in stocking. I live in Illinois and donate money to stcoking funds in Minnesota. I'm certain that Wisconsin is going to start becoming a much better state going forward now that their DNR has seen what has happened in Minnesota but it will take time. In the mean time, we all need to keep supporting the efforts to get more lakes (everywhere) stocked and the efforts to put in higher lenght limits. While the fish may be more pressured now, they are all still there and can still be caught if you just figure out how! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 476
Location: WI | I've decided to move to Utah and fish with Sorno..........problem solved!
Dan O |
|
| |
|
Location: Oswego, IL | I would also like to point out some of these "out of state" guys going fishing on a trip to "your" lake may also only fish there for 1-2 weeks out of a year. In state (resident) you buy your license and you fish every single day as long as possible. What really hurts(pressures) the lake more? The guy who pays more for a out of state license, and fishes 1-2 weeks a year there, or the guy who gets a resident cost license and pounds the lake everyday. Its your own residents crouding your own lake IMO. Seems to me they make more off non residents for your stockings
Edited by muskiewhored 9/9/2009 5:07 PM
|
|
| |
