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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The permit apps are on the way, and the MAC will respond to the MNDNR as needed.
In answer to some concerns:
I have had ONE phone call from a concerned angler. One. I answered the questions, and he was no longer concerned.
A few folks are concerned over permitting if Internet chatter elsewhere is any indication. As expressed if we need to adjust locationsor datsw we will, and very soon.
Others say that if the field is not full, the payouts will equal or be less than other events. Not true. If a MAC event has a field of 90 boats (a possibility explored in a couple events given the economy) the payout will still be larger than most offer.....with a full field. Paying more back before contingencies and paying a very substantial Team of the Year check is a given. Contingencies are already coming in. For example, the Top finishing Team fishing from a Tuffy Boat in each MAC event will receive a check from Tuffy for $1500.00.
We answered a few questions here when voiced reasonably, and some took the discussion elsewhere to continue complaining; that also is expected. MAC will have it's own website soon, and until that time will answer questions about released info here, and no where else. If you want the true skinny on MAC, you will need to ask MAC the questions. Gossip is what it is, and most of the objections so far have come from folks with no intention to fish the Circuit or those who feel the MAC might compete with an event they hold. Our intent is and will be to do our best to keep our schedule separate from that of other events, and we have tried very hard to accomplish that. No matter what MAC does with dates and locations, we are bound to conflict with other events that are as much as two weeks removed.
As far as the concern about 'big. flashy boats' roaring off in a huge pack', not to worry. The ease out in the morning will be one boat at a time, with plenty off room between them to ensure safety. The return check in will be handled in a similar manner.
This Muskie Anglers Circuit is here to stay, and will grow, sponsorships are coming in, and cities are already calling to ask if we are interested in their location in 2010. Unlike many other circuits, we will not ask for/demand compensation from a community to take a MAC event to a good location. If the community wants to contribute to the MAC overall, we will apply that amount to the conservation fund and a check will be handed to a local MI club or the DNR.
The Can/Am Challenge is in place, and information will be out very soon on this exclusive and exciting Invitational/International event to be held on LOTW in NW Ontario.
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Posts: 697
Location: Minnetonka | Steve, is the Can/Am Chalenge a part of the MAC or is this a separate event?
From the post I am assuming the it is an MAC Best Of The Best Tourney. (?)
If this is not the case, how does one earn the invite?
Thanks!
Andy
Edited by Hammskie 1/14/2009 10:05 AM
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Steve
Something I forgot to ask about the Team of the year award, how will the scoring for that be measured, total inches, or by best average finish of each event.
Thanks
Troy |
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Posts: 5874
| lawyer on the line - 1/12/2009 4:56 PM
You can use ONE weekend day for a tournament in MN. You will need to reschedule for Friday-Saturday or Sunday-Monday if you want a two day event that involves a weekend. That's the current law I believe.
Not true.
From the MN DNR Regulations.
"The DNR may require that multiple-day permitted fishing contests may not include more than one weekend day from Memorial Day weekend through Labor Day weekend."
MAY require is the operaive here. |
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Posts: 1057
Location: Medford, WI | Thanks for helping put this together Mr. Worrall. As mentioned earlier in the post, I probably won't have the money to fish the MAC this year; but I really appreciate the effort for a more fishermen/women (or should I say competitor) - focused tournament. I really like the immediate release for these tournaments and hope that other anglers will understand the benefits of this. Thanks again; I look forward to fishing these events when I am able to.
-Jake Bucki
P.S. Labor Day on Holcombe will be a crazy one, but I'm positive the planners took this into consideration already. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The Can/AM is a MAC event, but is operated by our Canadian counterpart. It will be a National Team against National Team event for total points as to which country takes the honors, but the rest will be pretty much as the other MAC events are run. A Canadian Captain will form a committee to select the teams invited to compete as will the US Team Captain.
Team of the Year points will be accumulated by team position in each event. Expect a Press Release next week on the Can AM. |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
Shep,
As of yet, the DNR has not let any muskie tournament use both Sat. and Sun.
On Leech as well as Vermillion there will be a tourney the weekend before and after the MAC event. I serously doubt the DNR will let them use both Sat. and Sun.
On Leech there is the Portage Bay tourney on the previous weekend, and the Muskies Inc. Chapter Challunge is during the week after the MAC scheduled event.
JS |
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| "A few folks are concerned over permitting if Internet chatter elsewhere is any indication. As expressed if we need to adjust locations, we will, but moving a day forward or back may fix any issues. We will see, and the weekends listed are in stone. "
If the dates are set and there is trouble with permits etc. Will the lakes change?
Like ex. Vermilion doesnt work permit wise, could it switch to Mille Lacs?
Trying to set my calander
Thanks |
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | MN allows weekend events, most MMT are saturday sunday, Vermillion the DNR has set the precedence that they have required all musky tournament to be a FRi/Sat event(for 2 day events). I believe the permitting is subject to the input of the local fisheries manager.
Troyz |
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Posts: 726
Location: Eau Claire, WI | I am one of the guys Steve alludes to in an earlier post. My comments are over on MH. I stand by my comments. I have contacted Steve directly and I have expressed multiple times that I'd like to help and I'm interested in the format/event in question. My comments have been both of praise for the format and criticism for the event dates/size. I have fished PMTT in the past and I organize a tournament that includes Holcombe. So I'm hardly "anti". The only reason I didn't post here is that I wanted to speak freely and that doesn't always happen. Thats fine, this is a privately owned site. m1st created this environment and you control it. If I felt that I could have made the same comments here then I would have. I've been active on this site for many years but felt that this is not one where I'd be able to post my thoughts without receiving an edit or removal.
I've tried to offer alternatives and I've done so in a spirit of cooperation. I've laid out my concerns in a logical respectful fashion. I am glad to hear about the ease out/in for the starts.
The fact remains, a 120 boat event over Labor Day on Holcombe is a lot. It will be a zoo. I hope thats all it amounts to.
So, again, good luck with the venture. I'm here to help if I can and you allow it. Please consider what I've said because it's valid and its a view that many share, it just happens that its me doing the talking out here. I'm stupid like that. But, I'm not alone on this. Whether as a contestant or an observer, I will be out there. And I'll be sharing my observations, admitting if I was wrong, and pointing out where I was right.
Jon Olstadt
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Reasonable and insightful critical comments always remain. Direct attacks, unreasonable commentary and attempts to start a 'fight' won't. You know that by now, and it isn't an accident this place is so busy.
I believe most of your comments have been addressed., and of course your assistance as MAC nears the date of this event would be very much appreciated.
It's MAC's belief an event that requires a $50 per person entry is in little danger of losing participation from the MAC event a couple weeks prior. If local teams decide to fish the event, I'd be more than willing to bet they'd be looking at the MAC as an opportunity to fish a major event, and Pre-fish for yours.
In answer to your question about why Minocqua is scheduled for June:
Because the MAC is joining forces with Rollie and Helens on the dates they traditionally held their event on Minocqua/Lake Tomahawk waters.
As to having our house in order, we have the paperwork in process for the events in January, 6 months ahead of the scheduled events. There are, according to the MNDNR, hundreds of permits to consider at this point so it's obvious not all events applied for have been decided as of yet.
The MAC dates are set, the locations are applied for, and if adjustments of a date or location need to be made they will be minor and the MAC will react quickly. Everything else is ready to go!
before the Event:
When MAC arrives onsite, a wrapped self contained tournament headquarters truck will arrive, a stage will be deployed, boats, motors, and other items will be put on display, and a sound system and electronic display will be deployed under a sheltering awning. MAC will connect it's media center to the Internet...and everything will be presented live, in photo galleries, and using live and archived streaming video from that point forward. The original Muskie Fantasy Angler will be revived right here on MuskieFIRST.
As to the focus of the Muskie Anglers Circuit:
Of course, the fish were considered. Immediate release. No transport, no judge boats, no holding the fish at boatside for a witness. it's our opinion the fish are first, and the format reflects that clearly.
The MAC focus for the folks watching the event is on the TEAM, the ANGLERS, not the Circuit itself. If you want an example of the coverage you will see, the video content, and the live streaming 'weigh in' ceremonies run by Jim Kalkofen, look at these links:
Live Leaderboard:
Leaderboard, updated Saturday with EVERY legal fish caught. Click on an angler's name. After MAC and PMTT run a year's data, this could happen for the Teams fishing the events. Look for Bio information and team highlights in either case:
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/leaderboard/llb.asp?t=761
Video coverage, morning and evening:
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/leaderboard/llb.asp?t=761&view=med...
Watch a few. really, do that, it's important for perspective as to what will happen at a MAC event. Want to know what strategies are in play by the top teams on Day One? You will. Want to see what the leaders are thinking before they launch on day two? You will. Yes, all those videos on that page are from ONE event.
Image galleries, morning and evening:
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/leaderboard/llb.asp?t=761&view=ima...
Literally hundreds of images from each morning and evening, and from the water during the event.
Live Stream:
Right on the front of at least two and probably three websites, crystal clear, and like you are there at the stage. The In Fisherman PWT had OutdoorsFIRST stream their events in 2008, and FLW encouraged the same. The fans loved it.
There's more to come. its a darned big 'house', and it's in order.
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Posts: 726
Location: Eau Claire, WI | Well Steve, I've said "I think it will have an impact but how much remains to be seen". So what I meant is this: I am not sure how much how little. I never said our event will be destroyed but yes having something that close does bother me. But I prefaced the comments with "personally speaking". You see, I wasn't speaking for an organization, I was speaking for myself. thats it. But, if we do lose some and you are truly going to help our chapter out as part of the conservation fund then it might work out just fine for us financially IF there is a problem. And again I like "work together" so you let me know how I might be of service to MAC.
The majority of my concerns center around pressure on those days on that lake. You think it's no big deal, I think it is. Other than the ease in/out, nothing more has been discussed on this. Its the most important issue I've raised.
I sent you an email this morning. You can respond back anytime you like or we can talk on the phone. I think phone is the way to go at this point. My number was in the email.
Thanks,
Jon
Edited by Jono 1/14/2009 2:56 PM
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Posts: 5874
| john skarie - 1/14/2009 10:36 AM
Shep,
As of yet, the DNR has not let any muskie tournament use both Sat. and Sun.
JS
You guys need to stop making general statements as if they are fact. This statement is simply not true, as Troy pointed out.
But I won't be fishing either of the MN tourneys, so I will bow out of this part of the discussion.
Edited by Shep 1/14/2009 1:51 PM
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Posts: 5874
| Wow, that worked pretty good! No posts in over 24 hours!
See you all at the Milwaukee Expo Swap and Social.
Edited by Shep 1/15/2009 3:00 PM
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
I wasn't making a "general" statement, I was repeating what I was told by the DNR. The gentlemen I talked to when getting a permit last year did not say it was up to them, he said they didn't allow it.
So, my bad, whatever.
Now I've been told that regional managers will allow both weekend days on certain lakes but not others no matter who the group getting the permit is.
I guess we'll see what happens.
JS |
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Posts: 5874
| John,
My comment was not pointed only towards you. There is/was a bunch of bad/non-factual information on this forum and on MH. No offense intended towards you, but it bugs me when all theses supposed bad issues are presented without factual information.
And yes. We will see what happens. Personally, I don't have any stake in whether this circuit comes off or not. I don't have a problem with any of the dates or locales. As with all things in life, you can't please evryone all the time. And you will agree that some of the complainers and accusers don't have any intention of fishing any tourney, much less this one, and are not affected with the outcome of this circuit in any way. So why all the bashing and personal attacks from them? |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | No one has asked what MAC has planned to address the situation, yet quite a list of inaccurate assumptions have been made by a list of a few people who have no intention whatsoever to fish the event.
Use your phone to call MAC, and you might be a bit more comfortable with the plans after speaking with us.
If indeed the application is rejected MAC will rapidly adjust the schedule. That will create a situation where we undoubtedly will conflict with another event, but it will be clear we tried to avoid that.
John, I can be reached at 715.362.1760.
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Thanks sir, It was a pleasure speaking with you. |
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Posts: 273
| The WMT has a tourney on Memorial Day, and if memory serves me correct this will not be the first time they have done so during Memorial Day weekend.
Either way i don't care holiday tourney or not. You fellas have been entertaining the last couple of days to say the least. Hopefully the cold breaks soon so we all can find something better to do than argue about our lakes and how others want to use them.
Jeff |
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Posts: 5874
| J_mich - 1/15/2009 4:58 PM
A WI fisheries Biologist that I spoke with today stated that the biolagical reasons alone should cause this event to be switched to a less popular weekend. The State of Wisconsin has tournament rules with regards to overcrowding.
Biological reasons? Please state the name of this WI DNR Biologist, and exactly what he said are the "biological" reasons. How does the extra boats on the water this tourney would bring affect the fish "biologically"?
As for the State having rules to prevent overcrowding? Not true. Not at this time.
You keep posting stuff that is simply not true. You are not helping your case.
The proposed changes to the permit process here in WI call for a 10 acre per boat minimum. I've seen Holcombe on Holiday weekends. 500 boats is a bit of an exaggeration. But even still, you make it sound like all the tourney boats will be doing is running around every second of the day. Fact is, the only time the majority of the tourney boats will be up on plane at the same time is at ease out in the AM, well before the majority of the pleasure boaters will be on the water, and to a lesser extent, near the end of tournament hours. I think that this tourney will not have the full 120 boats. Not sure how many there will be, But I may be one of them. I said I will not fish either of the MN tourneys, and did not say I wouldn't fish either of the WI tourneys.
I talked to a prominant member of the 1st WI MI chapter about fishing this tourney, and he said. "If they want the tourney there….I will go with the flow as long as its not the weekend before our fall tourney fundraiser. I would like a two or three week gap to make sure both events get quality fishing." I certainly respect his opinion on just about anything muskie related.
Edited by Shep 1/16/2009 9:36 AM
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | We had already dealt with the possible issues, mostly just perceived as Shep points out, before we scheduled this event. We spoke on the telephone with the two folks posting the reasonable questions, and they now have a better feel for what the Muskie Anglers Circuit event on Holcombe will look like, and are now looking at the event in a different light.
Anyone with questions about daily operations at any event can call me at 715.362.1760. For registration, brochures, and other information, call 800.359.4416. Ext. 128. |
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| Shep,
Mr. Mich gave me a phone call yesterday.
The biological reasons are as follows:
1-high water temperatures (most likely the highest of the year). Oftentimes temps are over 80 F that time of year on the Big H.
2-120 boats with 2 fishermen per boat (most very good fishermen) can and most likely will catch many fish. These fish (in my professional opinion) will suffer additional stress related to high water temperatures and the angling experience (recording fish size). So, even if only half the participants catch a fish that could be as many as 120 dead muskies. Biologically that is significant.
Having said that, I am not responsible for issuing the permit for this tournament, and have no stake in this argument. I think of the fish first. Not competition, fun, sport, fame or MONEY.
Biologically tournaments aren't bad, but if they risk the "publics" resource they can be. This is not just true for this proposed tournament but any tourament in late July, August, or Early September in Wisconsin.
Regards,
Jordan Weeks
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| Is the payout for 1st place with 60 boats $15k then?
Would be interested to know what 1st place will be with say 60, 75, and 90 boat fields. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Jordan,
All due respect, sir;
There are many, many events earlier during the traditionally warmest times of the year and many require restraining the fish at boatside or transporting the fish. I'd argue very strongly that we could easily find water temps in the high 60 to low 70 degree range if there is an average temperature period leading up to the event, which is at the end of the first week in September this year; a week later than Labor day last year. Last year, a major cold front moved through around the 3rd, and water temps across Wisconsin dropped significantly.
The event hours will be very early, and the field will be off the water early, avoiding the highest water temps and lake traffic for the day. There is another major Muskie circuit event just 5 days later in the same geographical area, I've seen nothing at all about water temp concerns there or with the four WMT events held during that general timeframe.
If, indeed, the water temps are too warm for the safety of the fish at the advice of the fisheries manager over there, the Muskie Anglers Circuit will postpone the event. That information has already been posted, by the way.
The average catch percentage in Muskie competitive events across the midwest are in the 15% of the field high end, and 10% low end. It is extremely ( talk about an understatement..) unlikely 120 fish would be caught, in fact, nearly impossible. It is much more likely the number of fish caught will be in the 18 to 25 fish range for the event. 60 fish a day would be....it won't come even close to that and suggesting it may is sensationalism at the least. So is suggesting the mortality rate of CPR in average September SEVENTH water temps is 100%. If that were true, with the July muskie angling pressure out there..well, you get the point.
I also talked to Mr. Mich yesterday on the phone for over 40 minutes, and he didn't say a thing about concern for water temps or handling of the fish, in fact he said he felt the level of expertise led him to believe the fish would be carefully handled.
http://www.wnrmag.com/stories/1996/dec96/weather.htm
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/caer/ce/news/or/2008/or080911.htm
( Above link:DNR September 11, 2008 Wisconsin Report, A musky tournament in Vilas County last weekend attracted more than 700 anglers who registered 64 muskies over 35 inches, including one 49-inch fish and four more over 45 inches) That event would have been held on about the same dates.
Again, if you have any concerns, call me at 715.362.1760. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | No tourney has ever cought 120 fish and never will...... no way.
I've fished over 30 or so events and never seen any dead fish, but that doesn't mean some fish don't die.
The people that fish these tournaments handle alot of fish and are very quick and well versed in proper release techniques.
I'd say 20-30 Fish caught in a tourney is more of an average number. |
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Posts: 5874
| J_WEEKS - 1/16/2009 5:00 PM
Shep,
Mr. Mich gave me a phone call yesterday.
The biological reasons are as follows:
1-high water temperatures (most likely the highest of the year). Oftentimes temps are over 80 F that time of year on the Big H.
2-120 boats with 2 fishermen per boat (most very good fishermen) can and most likely will catch many fish. These fish (in my professional opinion) will suffer additional stress related to high water temperatures and the angling experience (recording fish size). So, even if only half the participants catch a fish that could be as many as 120 dead muskies. Biologically that is significant.
Having said that, I am not responsible for issuing the permit for this tournament, and have no stake in this argument. I think of the fish first. Not competition, fun, sport, fame or MONEY.
Biologically tournaments aren't bad, but if they risk the "publics" resource they can be. This is not just true for this proposed tournament but any tourament in late July, August, or Early September in Wisconsin.
Regards,
Jordan Weeks
I am sorry, but your reason's and numbers aren't backed up by any facts. Half the field catching fish? You give these guys way to much credit. hehehe
Which fish get additional stress? Only those fish caught by tourney anglers? Or any fish caught that weekend? |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | I am also interested in knowing what the payout may be with a 50-60 boat field as I think that is more realistic for the first year. Estimate # would be fine. The last thing I want to do is fork out $750+ on an event, and only have a chance at $10,000 or less.
Top H2O before making generalizations make sure you do your research. Even though the National Championship Musky Open has 1000+ anglers it sees well over 100 fish caught the last couple of years. So don't say NO tournament has ever done it.
http://www.muskyclubsalliance.org/MCA%20Musky%20OpenResults2008.htm...
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Location: The Yahara Chain | I have a very hard time believing that the water temps will be at 80 degrees. I am looking at my water temp records from the Yahara Chain, Madison, WI. We are over 200 miles south of there. The water temps down here have ranged between 68 and 76 degrees on Labor Day weekend. They are nowhere near the hottest temps of the year.
Edited by Bytor 1/16/2009 7:54 PM
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The first place payout with a 60 boat field will be about 15k, yes. No skimming here, we pay out the same base percentages no matter the field size.
CiscoKid, The ratio is the same in that event. Semantics when arguing the field size H20 was looking to compare. !000 anglers...100 fish...low end of 10%. Right? If 50% of that field caught a fish, it'd be 500, not 100. I'd also argue the venue with that event is radically different than most tournaments.
Bytor, One cannot just compare 'Labor Day weekend' without looking at where it falls. This year is a full week later than last year, and I agree with your observations, they are much like mine here in Rhinelander.
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | No reason to apologize here. The anglers who fish the MAC will treat your water and your fish with great care. Attend the Rollie and Helens MAC in Minocqua first weekend of June, and see how the event operates, it'll help your concerns quite a bit, I'd think. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Travis,
I was talking about a field of 120-150 boats, not a thousnd person muskie tournament. Sorry.
Jerome |
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