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Posts: 605
Location: Marshfield, WI | http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/photos/show-album.asp?albumid...
Krishna |
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Posts: 605
Location: Marshfield, WI | http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/photos/show-album.asp?albumid...
Krishna |
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Posts: 2091
Location: Stevens Point, WI | To add to Doug's excellent commentary,here's the actual mechainics behind the 8 with all the fun stuff removed.
1) How fast do you reel? Let's say you are working a bucktail or spinnerbiat. You are reeling about 4 to 5 MPH most of the time or slower. A muskie is capable of speeds in the mid-thirties, so you CANNOT take a lure away form a fish on attack if it wants it.
2) How long is the lure in the water? With the lures described, about 30 to 45 seconds.
3) How does a Muskie 'find' your lure? The bait hits the water, and sound and vibration move out from the impact point at 16 football fields per second. Those and associated stimuli strike the muskie, and if all is well, the fish turns toward your presentation. How? The sound/vibration/pressurewave/whatever move out from the bait in a 360 degree circle to near infinity. As the leading edge of the that 'globe' strikes the fish, it will instinctively turn to that direction, just like you would in our environmemt. Another instictive mechanism 'decides' whether the bait is close enough for the fish to pursue without burning more energy that the capture would be worth. Assuming that and other reactions to your stimulous are positive, the fish kicks toward your lure. The speed at which this happens has more variables atached to it than are of import, suffice to say the level of response to the stimulous IS variable.
4) The fish moves to intersect the lure and tries to visually locate the bait. In many waters, visibility is less than 5'. The Muskie, by virtue of poor visibility in the water and the fact they are pretty badly nearsighted has to get pretty close to get the visual stimulous, and the lure needs to have good enough contrast to allow the fish to seperate it from the background. If indeed this clicks and the overall response is strong enough, then the fish takes an attack vector, and moves in for the kill. If the fish can't find the lure visually, or isn't in a physical 'state' for optimal response to the stimuli, you get a follow.
All of this has to happen in about 30 to 45 seconds.
The figure 8 accomplishes two things. It keeps the lure in the water longer, allowing a fish that is on it's way from a half cast away to get there. Another function has to do with the Muskie's vision.
Muskies don't see as we do. The position of their eyes is totally different. We are primary predators, like it or not. Our eyes are positioned in the front. As a result, we see in 'stereo' out to the very side or perepiheral vision. The Muskie's eyes are positioned top and out to the sides, so the stereo vision in limited to a set of opposing triangles. The field of vision favors upward and directly forward, causing the fish to have to position itself corectly to the presentation to get the bait on the vision 'screen'. Imagine drawing a line from the fish's eyes from the top of the fish (see atachment) across the nose. Where those lines intersect the Muskie BEGINS to see the lure with good depth perception. Any closer, the fish may not see it at all, and gets no visual stimulous. Outside the triangle, the fish sees as you would with one eye closed. Try figuruing out distance to an object with one eye covered, while it is moving at 4 MPH and you are moving too.
The figure 8 moves the lure away from and across the stereoscopic field of vision 4 times, out on the outer circles, and in the inner circles of the 8. If the fish is glued RIGHT on the bait, one needs to get it a bit more out in front, and cross the visual field. If, again, the response is strong enough, you will get the desired hit.
If not, you get a follow, and the fish moves on.
Do I figure 8 every cast? No. I am way too impatient. I look WAY behind the bait looking for a change in the water color or movement, and figure 8 if I think a fish is on it's way. If I get a follow, I figure 8. Otherwise, I do a very long L. I can't help myself. Casting again just makes me feel so good!!
My 2 cents!
By the way, the bigger the fish, the bigger the triangles described. The fish I used was a 42" pike.
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Attached file : PANA0473.JPG (96KB - 165 downloads)
Attached file : PANA0474.JPG (100KB - 141 downloads |
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Posts: 393
Location: Kawarthas, Ontario | Could this be it?
Subject : RE: Question of seeing color
Posted : 2004-01-14 11:01 AM
Post #93491 - In reply to #93468
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Keep in mind our lure colors are paint. Green is a combination of blue and yellow. Question is, was the base paint used to create the green blue, or yellow? The blue based paint will show as a grey most of the time, where the yellow based paint will be a brighter grey to a bit yellow or even a dirty white if there is enough light. Purple is blue and red. Red based, it's nealy black under most conditions.If the purple is 'hazed' over a white background, it provides a shadow contrast.Blue based, it is still nearly black much of the time.
Also keep in mind that water rapidly removes the longer wavelengths of light (reds), and that process is amplified by particulate. It is true that the literature supports fish in more turbid waters leaning toward the longer wavelenghts, but the actual COLOR is gone pretty quicky. Take a look at a Coke can in 10' in clear, calm water. It will be nealry black where the red used to be. Add to that the reflected light off the surface early and late in the day, wave action breaking up penetration, and other factors, and one begins to realize it isn't real bright in 8' of water at 4PM. Not alot of light means not alot of color.
I have always preached contrast as key. I might be all wet, but I believe that in order for the fish to use sight as a component of the strike response mechanism, the fish needs to be able to clearly seperate the bait from the background against which it is viewed at the point of attack. Dark backgound, light colors. Light background, dark colors. When in question, fish with a black lure.
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Steve Worrall
OutdoorsFIRST Media
www.patriotpowerboats.com |
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Posts: 1438
| I erred.....
Back to looking again.
Scott
Edited by theedz155 2/19/2004 3:55 PM
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Posts: 393
Location: Kawarthas, Ontario | Okay, I'm likely wrong again, but this could be off the wall enough to be close (or not)
"I am not what you think, yet you see me so clear, I am invisible to most of you I fear!" like as in LIGHT
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/get-attachment.asp?attachment...
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Posts: 393
Location: Kawarthas, Ontario | As above (LIGHT), but with this thread...
Subject : RE: Question of seeing color
Posted : 2004-01-14 8:12 AM
Post #93468 - In reply to #93381
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O.k....so hues that are more toward the blue end of the spectrum are harder to detect, as per the website
As a copy and paste here:
"Muskies, like most freshwater fishes have cone cells in their retinas, and hence have color vision. However, because of the light transmission properties of freshwater, the dominant lighting in their environment is dominated by longer wavelengths of light, typically in the green to red region of the spectrum. At twilight, the shortwave portions of the spectrum in water may be even further reduced.
Muskie cone cells are therefore characterized by an absence of blue-sensitive pigments. Typically there are two types of cone cells, single cones with a green-sensitive pigment (500-540 nm wavelength peak absorption) and double cones which may have a single red-sensitive pigment at > 600 nm, or two pigments, one at > 600 nm sensitivity and the other at 520-600nm.
So, muskies can see colors, but not into the blue end of the spectrum (blues and purples probably appear as grey to them)." (from the ERC website above)
So...then could it be that when fishing cisco based waters, blues and purples are good because they mimic (in the view of a muskie) the basic color of cisco and whitefish as grey? Purple has been a great color for me, as has been green.
On the other edge of the idea, then, how can green be good in weedy conditions, where the color itself is dampened by the water, thus making the lure blend in more?
ideas?
Jason, I am curious of your opinion here as well...
Steve |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I am part of the equasion and and very hard to see, even though every one of you has looked right at me!
Without me the Wabull item would not be what it is, and the all the previous clues would not work, this would fizz.
Find me and you are one item away from the big prize, the mother lode, muskies of consequence and size!
I will not accept a guess,you must describe, you must know, the WHY you selected me, to make this one go..... |
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Posts: 393
Location: Kawarthas, Ontario | My computer monitor looking at the MuskieFirst website and here's the logic...
1. I am what I am, and I am what I'll be, I am related to the Wabull but so very hard to see. It is not very easy to see me, oh NO, and for many many reasons only the riddler might know.
One reads the web pages, but doesn't look at the monitor.
2. Got to be good lookin 'cause she's so hard to see..... or "Come Together"
MuskieFirst and my monitor brings the muskie community together
3. I am not what you think, yet you see me so clear, I am invisible to most of you I fear!
Again the web site viewed through my monitor
4. Come on, take a chance, figure it out, two could. VERY close to the Prize we are, if you tried, maybe you would. The item we seek contains the item, the ONE: To get you out fishing with Keith Worrall, my son!
The web site contains the item we seek.
5. I am part of the equasion and and very hard to see, even though every one of you has looked right at me!
Without me the Wabull item would not be what it is, and the all the previous clues would not work, this would fizz.
Find me and you are one item away from the big prize, the mother lode, muskies of consequence and size!
I will not accept a guess,you must describe, you must know, the WHY you selected me, to make this one go.....
Everyone of us has looked right at the computer monitor and this site.
Okay, since I'm likely wrong again...how much is a T Shirt and where do I send the money...  |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Search as you will through the archives if the site, I am RIGHT here in front of you, in a different sort of light! |
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Posts: 7123
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | WILL SOMEONE PLEASE FIGURE THE DAMN THING OUT!!!??? I want to run another Impossible Trivia Contest.....but I cant do it til you scavengers find your carcass!
BTW I know the answer to this questioin.....4 HRs and I'll tell ya what it is!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posts: 125
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota | I am probably wrong here but the statement "I am part of the equasion and and very hard to see, even though every one of you has looked right at me!" suggests to me that the riddler is looking for the term HTML. HTML is used to build the layout of the pages, yet without viewing the source we wouldn't see it.
Some of the Riddler's other comments could also suggest the Internet as well.
Just a guess.
Edited by mikes 2/20/2004 12:02 PM
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Posts: 69
Location: Just above the thermoclime | The "Navigate Threads" box/links at the bottom of each page. |
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Posts: 69
Location: Just above the thermoclime | The link to/software that powers these forums.
Running MegaBBS ASP Forum Software v1.5.0b13 public beta
without it this site would not be what it is today - a community.
Edited by muskiehead 2/20/2004 2:22 PM
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Posts: 393
Location: Kawarthas, Ontario | Sounds like Mikes has probably got it, but if not how about MegaBBS ASP Forum Software used to create these forums. It brings the community together, but nobody sees the language and the logo for it is at the bottom of every page. |
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Posts: 393
Location: Kawarthas, Ontario | For the reasons in my previous post, the ASP language used to create these forums which bring us together as ONE, yet we don't see the language. |
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Posts: 2091
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Is it the "How Much Does it Weigh" Box on the first page? |
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Posts: 69
Location: Just above the thermoclime | It's thread. This is a thread, thread is hard to see, it holds us together, the answer is thread. (Steve, just say yes and end the madness). |
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Edited by theedz155 2/20/2004 4:38 PM
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Posts: 1438
| Sworrall's team name for the match contest was Walking Bulls. Related to "ONE" of the Wabull's is Keith Worrall. The "ONE" that we seek is the trip with Keith. The link to the Sabaskong video is on the "RIGHT" side of the screen. When you play the video, Keith is "hard to see" but is also located to the "RIGHT" side of the video frame and in a slightly darker light.
Is it the Video link to the Sabaskong Outing?? |
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Posts: 393
Location: Kawarthas, Ontario | It's this thread. It deals with the wabull. The answer is defintely hard to see, in fact I think I'm blind. This thread is something we all see and is also directly related to the final goal or the one we seek. |
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Posts: 393
Location: Kawarthas, Ontario | I think Theedz has the final answer to the whole shebang! |
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Posts: 2091
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Looks like the Riddler has us stumped! |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Theedz, you are close, I am there in that clip, but I am not a living thing, I am an object, and you're whipped? Watch the clip again, and find a shot of me, one might say one loses me like the forest for the trees. |
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Posts: 393
Location: Kawarthas, Ontario | A fluorocarbon leader attached to the buzzbait. Invisible becuase of its physical properties and hard to see because it blends in with the net. |
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Posts: 393
Location: Kawarthas, Ontario | The mesh of the net - its like a forest and you lose it like the forest for the trees. |
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Posts: 605
Location: Marshfield, WI | I'm guessing its the boat windsheild. You can see right through it and you see a forest on the other side.
Krishna |
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Posts: 18
Location: Amsterdam, Holland | my guess would be your (poleroid) glasses ? u can see tru them, when looking thru them u see a different light.
or ur bow mount trolling motor (ap) earlier u said "those that fly know that if it's off, it's a disaster!! " that could mean motor or ap(auto pilot) |
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Posts: 605
Location: Marshfield, WI | Is it your depth finder? Like the last guy said, if you are flying a plane and your radar is off, it could be tragic.
Krishna
Edited by k-bob 2/22/2004 1:14 PM
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Posts: 1438
| How about that Violent Strike double bladed prototype Monster Buzzbait.
It is not a living thing, only an object and you "whip" it when you cast it out. You lose it like the forest for the trees because it is tangled in the net and the main focus is the fish.
Scott |
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