Posted 4/10/2012 7:40 AM (#552107 - in reply to #552086) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 2361
sworrall - 4/9/2012 11:57 PM
NOTHING they eat day to day looks, acts, sounds, or feels like a lure. Nothing. Nada. Follow along with me for a bit on this one.
Lures look like hell, sound like hell, and act like nothing else in the fish's diet. Muskie ought to reject lures immediately if as intelligent as we credit them to be. Topwater lures don't sound or act like ducks. No lure looks like a 'wounded baitfish'. Not one. ...
Anyway, lures don't have a 'footprint' like any living...or dying thing.
And that is why they work.:o :o :o
(But duh Steve)
Muskies respond to a series of stimuli automatically, they HAVE to or they die. . etc.
Steve, Steve, Steve.....we have had this discussion before, and here you go again, so much chaff, so little wheat. If you were a little more concise, ie less wordy, less verbally voluminous, MORE TO THE POINT BUDDDY!!;) , it would be easier to respond.
You have tripped up here as you have in the past, by expanding your point to the failure level.
ALL ARTIFICIAL BAITS RESEMBLE THINGS THEY EAT EVERY SINGLE DAY AND NIGHT. They do in many ways, natural foods move, ABs move. Natural foods are visible, ABs are visible. Natural foods give off acoustic signals, pressure waves, sounds even at times, ABs give off acoustic signals, pressure waves, sounds even at times. The fish are hardwired to respond to such signals, large and small, clear and subtle. To suggest otherwise clouds the discussion. I have made this point before, but....someone wasn't listening were they? Probably qued up in line waiting for a net.....
And note, you reverse yourself in short order before you even have finished your novel.
Sad story...;)
All I am left to say is...Steve, Steve, Steve....:-(
Guest
Posted 4/10/2012 7:50 AM (#552108 - in reply to #551042) Subject: RE: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
At some point in a muskies life they have to take a chance when eating. The first time they eat a minnow, a frog, a crayfish, and duck, seagull.
Attacking something new is part of life. To say that lures don't resemble anything they eat really makes no sense. A frog doesn't resemble a minnow or a duck, but they will eat them all.
Hot lures do come and go. That's easily seen by guys who have fished a lot of years.
Posted 4/10/2012 8:05 AM (#552111 - in reply to #552108) Subject: RE: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Location: Green Bay, WI
I think there are more aggressive fish, and less aggressive fish. I think each fish can be different in that respect--at least to some degree. I don't want to go as far as to say that the fish have personalities, but just because they are the exact same species doesn't mean they have to respond in exactly the same way...all other things considered. So if you present a less aggressive fish with a lure that doesn't look like anything they normally eat, then maybe that fish doesn't respond the way you'd like. You might get a follow, but (using Steve's parlance) their switch hasn't been flipped. Now present that fish with something that looks more like a perch or shad (ie; "match-the-hatch") and you might just get them to eat. But then there are fish that will hit anything, whether or not it looks like anything they normally eat.
Which one of these fish do you think might live longer, and thus make a greater overall contribution to the gene pool? On some level of consciousness, all animals MUST make choices. Whether or not they have the capability for thought depends upon the complexity of their brain, I'd agree. Steve made this point, and I think it's very accurate. But I would also point out that there are other factors at play here, like impulse or "instinct." And those things can of course make or break that fish's day.
Posted 4/10/2012 9:43 AM (#552131 - in reply to #552107) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
' ALL ARTIFICIAL BAITS RESEMBLE THINGS THEY EAT EVERY SINGLE DAY AND NIGHT. No, they don't. They are the wrong color, shape,don't behave at all like the real thing, don't swim or sound like the real thing
They do in many ways, natural foods move, ABs move. That's Doug's if it moves it's food
Natural foods are visible, ABs are visible. yes they are, but that accentuates the differences. I said visibility sucks much of the time down there, and it does.
Natural foods give off acoustic signals, pressure waves, sounds even at times, ABs give off acoustic signals, pressure waves, sounds even at times. The 'signals' are so different that if muskies were smart as you think they'd SCREAM outta there. 'Sounds' underwater are basically pressure waves. And sound underwater really travels, too, 4800 fps.
The fish are hardwired to respond to such signals, large and small, clear and subtle. yes, I believe I said that. That IS the entire point
To suggest otherwise clouds the discussion. I have made this point before, but....someone wasn't listening were they? Probably qued up in line waiting for a net.....' We should listen to logic and what actually makes sense based upon the fish's actual capabilities. Read 'Behavior of Teliost Fishes' Second edition, Chapman and Hall, Fish and Fisheries, Series 7. Let me know when you have, and we'll talk some more.
I caught a muskie on a Coot last year. 1X4. Told you...
The video above is a Perch shaped and sort of Perch colored lure. Watch how it behaves. Now watch the perch in this video. Notice any differences? How dumb ARE muskies not to be just a little concerned...
Posted 4/10/2012 9:49 AM (#552135 - in reply to #552133) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
Here's hydrophone audio and Aqua-Vu video of a little rattle bait and a Pike screaming in smashing the lure. Turn your volume all the way up, you CAN hear the fish attack. Barely. Fish are quiet. They move slow and easy most all of the time unless running to food or away from being food. Moving fast for a short distancehad better be in avoidance or an attack...or it's a good chance you will get chased and perhaps...if the predator after you is lucky...eaten.
Posted 4/10/2012 9:52 AM (#552137 - in reply to #551042) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
'I would also point out that there are other factors at play here, like impulse or "instinct." And those things can of course make or break that fish's day.'
My points exactly. I remember reading a study done on salmon introduced grizzly bear country. It took GENERATIONS of predation before the fish began exhibiting avoidance behavior to the smell of a grizzly upstream in the water. But they did....eventually.
Posted 4/10/2012 9:59 AM (#552141 - in reply to #551042) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
You didn't, I should have said as smart as folks think. My bad, guess I have to buy the first round this Summer. Others have the tendency to believe it because marketing folks have pounded that into our minds for decades.
iajustin
Posted 4/10/2012 10:00 AM (#552142 - in reply to #552108) Subject: RE: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Guest - 4/10/2012 7:50 AM
Hot lures do come and go. That's easily seen by guys who have fished a lot of years.
JS
Please give examples. When was a spinnerbait "hot" and then the fish decide to quit eating it? A 10" Jake is less effective now than when it was introduced or less people use them less now? Was a rumbler any better than I topraider - I would argue not, in fact I think the topraider is a better bait always has been always will be....and do you really believe a fish that ate a rumbler on lotw would have rejected a topraider? Not me.
Posted 4/10/2012 10:25 AM (#552147 - in reply to #552131) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 2361
sworrall - 4/10/2012 9:43 AM
' ALL ARTIFICIAL BAITS RESEMBLE THINGS THEY EAT EVERY SINGLE DAY AND NIGHT. No, they don't. They are the wrong color, shape,don't behave at all like the real thing, don't swim or sound like the real thing
Wait a second STEVER, I think you are making assumptions muskies can discern such things. JS makes a good point, frog=duckling=minnow and all get eaten, so how can an artificial bait be the wrong color, wrong behaviour, wrong swimmer or sound? No way Josie Steve.
They do in many ways, natural foods move, ABs move. That's Doug's if it moves it's food
Doug Johnson quote that is irrelevant to the discussion, I could throw in many of those, why are you bringing it in here? Clouding the issue again!
Natural foods are visible, ABs are visible. yes they are, but that accentuates the differences. I said visibility sucks much of the time down there, and it does.
But Steve, they are not able to understand the differences, so...it only really accents the similarities, ie food aint invisible....
Natural foods give off acoustic signals, pressure waves, sounds even at times, ABs give off acoustic signals, pressure waves, sounds even at times. The 'signals' are so different that if muskies were smart as you think they'd SCREAM outta there. 'Sounds' underwater are basically pressure waves. And sound underwater really travels, too, 4800 fps.
OK, all sounds are basically pressure waves, irrelevant how fast it travels, once again clouding the issue? Note my post above, where do I say they are smart??? And how are the signals so different? They are signals are they not, and travel through water, and unless they sound like a killer whale making a run to the beach for a tasty seal, I'm thinking there is only a limited response. Lateral lines can sort out the front/back signals from the others received and make a size estimation of the object that will probably limit its potential hardwired threat to the fish.
The fish are hardwired to respond to such signals, large and small, clear and subtle. yes, I believe I said that. That IS the entire point
Yes, but you are missing that point by your wild claims that those same signals are somehow significant in their variance, when my point is that they are significant IN THEIR SIMILARITIES.
To suggest otherwise clouds the discussion. I have made this point before, but....someone wasn't listening were they? Probably qued up in line waiting for a net.....' We should listen to logic and what actually makes sense based upon the fish's actual capabilities. Read 'Behavior of Teliost Fishes' Second edition, Chapman and Hall, Fish and Fisheries, Series 7. Let me know when you have, and we'll talk some more.
REALLY?
I caught a muskie on a Coot last year. 1X4. Told you...
Whatcha mean "told you"??? Proves MY point, not yours.
The video above is a Perch shaped and sort of Perch colored lure. Watch how it behaves. Now watch the perch in this video. Notice any differences? How dumb ARE muskies not to be just a little concerned...
Steve Steve Steve, that perch shaped, sort of perch colored lure does what? MOVES, swims up and down and sideways in the water, is visible, gives off some kind of acoustic and potentailly sound waves in the water, seems like something alive and swimming around to me, and evidently does to the perch too, am I mistaken or are they not EATING THE STUPID THING????!!!!!
HITTIN THE COUGH SYRUP AGAIN STEVE???
btw, I really liked your use of red.
Guest
Posted 4/10/2012 10:26 AM (#552148 - in reply to #551042) Subject: RE: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
iajustin, you can believe what you want to, no skin of my back.
The latest, greatest example is the DBL 10. It is not as effective as it was when it 1st came out. Period.
More people throw them now then ever before in may area, and they are catching less and less fish, and producing less follows.
They are not the go to bait they once were. To me it doesn't matter why, you can argue about fish "learning" behaviors one way the other till your blue in the face.
The main thing is to learn what is working and why on particular lakes and use it. Or another way to look at it is learn what isn't working and don't use it.
Posted 4/10/2012 10:36 AM (#552150 - in reply to #552142) Subject: RE: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 2361
iajustin - 4/10/2012 10:00 AM
Guest - 4/10/2012 7:50 AM
Hot lures do come and go. That's easily seen by guys who have fished a lot of years.
JS
Please give examples. When was a spinnerbait "hot" and then the fish decide to quit eating it? A 10" Jake is less effective now than when it was introduced or less people use them less now? Was a rumbler any better than I topraider - I would argue not, in fact I think the topraider is a better bait always has been always will be....and do you really believe a fish that ate a rumbler on lotw would have rejected a topraider? Not me.
Well Skarie, that about says it, we need to get rid of our rumblers, and just go topraiders. Or maybe somebody else needs more experience, and to give more thought to their posts before coming up with such declaratives?
Posted 4/10/2012 10:37 AM (#552151 - in reply to #551042) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
FSF,
You are presenting my points with the same information offered in a slightly different way. Muskies have no idea what a lure is. And they don't care. The rest has to do with conditioning or lack thereof, and is based upon the exposure to the footprint. They will, for all intents and purposes, eat anything that moves. How consistently and the 'whys' of that issue is what's being discussed here. But...you already knew that.
The speed (and resulting amazing volume transmission) of those pressure waves underwater has a HUGE amount to do with the understanding of how any fish locates and either makes the move toward, or ignores food or artificial lures.
The 'told you' goes back a few years.
I don't have any cough syrup here. I did have two big cups of coffee though.
Boy, you are dating yourself, cough syrup hasn't been available with codeine in it OTC for decades.
Posted 4/10/2012 10:51 AM (#552153 - in reply to #552148) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 2015
JS - Is it possible that other conditions besides the lure are making it more difficult to catch these fish in your area? What were your overall catch rates? the same on these lakes last year as compared to four-five years ago? - or has the fishing just become "tougher"? All I know is I spent 7 days during the summer (two trips) in MN last year. 6 of the 7 fish over 49" that were caught, were on 10's. (the other was caught on double 8's) Topwater, dawgs, spinnerbaits, cranks all caught at least one fish - but not the size or even numbers. I know its a small sample - I will say a dozen boats hitting a spot in front of you, throwing any lure...generally does nothing to improve "the mood" of fish. Muskies are negative more often than not. And I think there are many factors that contribute to "tougher" fishing but a fish remembering what lure it ate last year is not one of them - IMO.
Posted 4/10/2012 10:56 AM (#552154 - in reply to #552150) Subject: RE: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 2015
Well Skarie, that about says it, we need to get rid of our rumblers, and just go topraiders. Or maybe somebody else needs more experience, and to give more thought to their posts before coming up with such declaratives?
;)
Plenty of experience here - willing to test your BST anytime.
Posted 4/10/2012 10:59 AM (#552156 - in reply to #552151) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Location: Green Bay, WI
And actually, a fish's lateral line system is very sophisticated--much more so than I had recalled from Ichthyology many years ago.
I pulled out my copy of The Physiology of Fishes over the weekend, and read about the lateral line system. There are specialized neuromasts for both velocity and acceleration. But the cool thing is that they are located in slightly different positions on the lateral line--and more pelagic fish apparently tend to have a different ratio of canal (acceleration) to superficial (velocity) neuromasts, apparently even in the same species, although this was less than clear to me. But it was pretty clear to me from reading that reference, that a predator's lateral line system IS indeed specialized for the types of prey it hunts.
For instance, one could hypothesize that the reason that the lateral line system in a pelagic fish has a greater ability to detect acceleration, is because that fish spends more time chasing down prey in schools in open water (like a bait ball). If you've ever watched a YouTube video on predation of fish in a bait ball, you'll see how these small prey fish are ALWAYS changing something. Put another way, they are constantly changing their speed and/or direction, and hence they are constantly accelerating...either in a positive or a negative fashion. So a successful predatory fish would obviously need to adapt to such behavior, if it were to be able to feed on these prey fish.
Translating this to the "science" of fishing musky, I would argue that in fact the choice of lure might well have something to do with provoking a strike--but it seems more likely to me that the angler using that lure has much more to do with it than the lure itself. (I know FSF, there I go "speculating" again...) But consider this: Just because the two guys in the boat with me are having success with a Bull Dawg, doesn't mean I will too--even if I use one of their 'Dawgs. Lures are just tools, and like any tool, it's usually the craftsman that determines how well the job turns out. Subtle nuances in how the lure is presented often make a significant difference in whether or not a strike is triggered...especially when the bite is tough.
TB
Edited by tcbetka 4/10/2012 11:10 AM
Guest
Posted 4/10/2012 11:26 AM (#552161 - in reply to #551042) Subject: RE: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Justin it isn't "my" BST.
It's a theory shared among anlgers I know that have much more experience than myself, or you and I put together.
I never said you can't catch a fish on DBL 10's anymore, but if you were one of the first guys using it years ago you know what I mean.
Posted 4/10/2012 11:33 AM (#552163 - in reply to #551042) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 8780
I'll say it again. Muskies are dumb. If they weren't, we'd never catch them, and certainly not more than once. Biologically, their only purpose is to breed once a year, eat, and survive to breed again next year. Beyond the first few years when they have to avoid being eaten by other fish, predator avoidance really isn't a part of their day to day life. Eagles and bears may get a few, but how often does that happen? The spawn lasts for a few weeks at best. That leaves the other 50 weeks a year, when their only function is to eat. That's it. Eat. Whatever they can catch. If exposed to a lure enough times, and often enough, that provides no food reward, it's not a stretch to think that they might become conditioned to ignore it, because it's not food. But that all goes out the window when it's time to eat.
We give them WAY too much credit. A few years back, I spent four hours camped out over a wreck in the gulf with a dozen other guys, all fishing various forms of real food - squid, cut bait, shrimp, pinfish... I yelled to the captain about hour 2 and said "Hey cap, we gonna move or what?" He laughed and said "if you saw my graph, you'd want to stay here for the whole 3 days!!" Four hours of nothing. The somebody caught a fish. Then someone else. Within 10 minutes, everybody on the boat was hauling in fish on every kind of bait, as fast as they could reel them in, re-bait, and get a line in the water. And then they stopped, just as quickly as they started. When nature tells them it's time to eat, they're gonna eat. If you're out there, with a lure in front of them, when nature tells them it's time to eat? Doesn't much matter what lure it is, or what color it is. Neutral fish? Different story. Those you have to convert. Lure selection plays a part. But what you do with the lure is far more important. I have a friend who catches a ton of fish on Burts. I have another who catches a lot of fish on reef hawgs. There's a guy here who can put 4 fish in the boat on gliders in a day when nobody else is catching anything, not even on live bait. I can't catch a fish on a Suick. Find the lures that work for you. Simple.
Posted 4/10/2012 12:26 PM (#552186 - in reply to #552151) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 2361
sworrall - 4/10/2012 10:37 AM
FSF, You are presenting my points with the same information offered in a slightly different way.
NO Steve, I'm not saying things like this!
' ON ARTIFICIAL BAITS RESEMBLING THINGS THEY EAT EVERY DAY
SWORRALL SAYS, "No, they don't. They are the wrong color, shape,don't behave at all like the real thing, don't swim or sound like the real thing"
IT GETS SO CONFUSING WITH YOU, NOW I HAVE TO ASK AGAIN ARE MUSKIES STUPID, OR ARE THEY CAPABLE OF MAKING ALL THE ABOVE DISCRIMINATIONS YOU CLAIM THEY ARE??? THEY CAN ONLY BE HARDWIRED FOR SO MUCH REACTIVITY, AND RESPONSE, THERE HAS TO BE SOME VERY PLASTIC BEHAVIOUR ALLOWED IN THEIR HARDWIRING TO ALLOW THEM TO ADAPT TO THE CHANGING AND VARIOUS FOOD ITEMS WHICH MAY PRESENT THEMSELVES OVER TIME. JUDGING FROM WHAT YOU ARE SAYING HERE, ONCE THEY ARE BORN, OR IDENTIFY ONE FOOD ITEM, THAT WOULD BE IT FOREVER MORE, DANG, NO MORE SMORGASBOARD.
Boy, you are dating yourself, cough syrup hasn't been available with codeine in it OTC for decades.
I FORGET, YOU HAVE NO ACCESS TO THE GOOD STUFF, DO YOU...;)
Posted 4/10/2012 12:49 PM (#552197 - in reply to #551042) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 1291
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin
A couple of pages back, sworrall wrote: "Anglers have attempted to explain how tough it is to catch muskies for years by creating a far to complicated picture of their behavior, when it's easier to explain by simple numbers. If there were as many muskies as there is Pike or Bluegills in any body of water, I believe you'd catch them as easily as pike or bluegills."
Based on a personal experience that most will never have, I have to "almost" agree with Steve. Although muskies are still muskies and I don't believe can be caught like bluegills (pike maybe), we did catch 40 in about 8 hours of fishing one day in a lake that contained mostly muskies! Lots of fish...lots caught...simple. OR is it? The lake had been closed and hadn't been fished for 50 years, hence no pressure/conditioning. Since it was later reopened to fishing, catch rates have plummeted and the lake is more "normal" nowadays. Make up your own mind about this discussion. Y'all might be right or y'all might be wrong...OR?
One other thing I would like to comment on and that is regarding fish leaving an area after being angler caught and not returning (at least that season). This I experienced first hand while doing tracking work on Eagle Lake in NW Ontario in 1986. Sample size was very small, but ALL fish with transmitters that were either caught by angling initially or recaptured by lure after having a transmitter placed in them on this lake exhibited this response during the study period.
Posted 4/10/2012 1:08 PM (#552208 - in reply to #552197) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin
IT GETS SO CONFUSING WITH YOU, NOW I HAVE TO ASK AGAIN ARE MUSKIES STUPID, OR ARE THEY CAPABLE OF MAKING ALL THE ABOVE DISCRIMINATIONS YOU CLAIM THEY ARE??
I'm saying they don't, silly. Obvious as the nose on your digital face.
Posted 4/10/2012 2:23 PM (#552230 - in reply to #551042) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 4343
Location: Smith Creek
"One other thing I would like to comment on and that is regarding fish leaving an area after being angler caught and not returning (at least that season). This I experienced first hand while doing tracking work on Eagle Lake in NW Ontario in 1986. Sample size was very small, but ALL fish with transmitters that were either caught by angling initially or recaptured by lure after having a transmitter placed in them on this lake exhibited this response during the study period"
The two largest fish I've caught in Wisconsin were seen or caught in the same spot within weeks after being caught.
Smaller water and fewer ambush spots to choose from than Eagle but one was on the Turtle Flambeau and ate the exact same lure in the exact same spot a few weeks apart. The other was from a 200 acre lake so the fish probably didn't have much choice as to where it hung out after being caught.
Posted 4/10/2012 2:37 PM (#552234 - in reply to #552197) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 2361
Larry Ramsell - 4/10/2012 12:49 PM
Although muskies are still muskies and I don't believe can be caught like bluegills (pike maybe), we did catch 40 in about 8 hours of fishing one day in a lake that contained mostly muskies! Lots of fish...lots caught...simple. OR is it? The lake had been closed and hadn't been fished for 50 years, hence no pressure/conditioning. Since it was later reopened to fishing, catch rates have plummeted and the lake is more "normal" nowadays. Make up your own mind about this discussion. Y'all might be right or y'all might be wrong...OR?
After reading about the personal experiences of iajustin, the above scenario is impossible. Lures could not be LESS effective. They maintain their viability over time and use. Musta been a death loss thing. Did you gut hook a bunch that day Larry?
Posted 4/10/2012 2:40 PM (#552236 - in reply to #552234) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 2015
When did I ever say pressure on a lake does not make fishing "tougher" . Mr smart old man - If i have a two acre pond and go catch 500 bass that was never fished - it will be hard to catch 500 bass the next day, and probably impossible the third.....and it has nothing to do with the lure you are throwing. Seriously get a clue
Edited by IAJustin 4/10/2012 2:46 PM
Guest
Posted 4/10/2012 3:06 PM (#552246 - in reply to #551042) Subject: RE: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
I would ask the question what makes a lake show signs of what we call "pressure", i.e. spookier fish, less follows, fish not going into figure 8's as much as they used to, slower catch unless conditions are prime etc.
Is it that fish are getting conditioned to not hitting lures, or that they get "scared" of boat noise such as trolling motors, or that they take up new spots that we don't fish, etc.
Each lake may have a different answer. I still think that fish change behavior due to outsite influence, whether you attribute that to "smarts" or just instinct, they do change.
Recognizing these changes will make you a better fishermen.
JS
Dirt Esox unplugged
Posted 4/10/2012 5:28 PM (#552285 - in reply to #552084) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
IAJustin - 4/9/2012 11:38 PM
i wish new lures did cause this "feeding frenzy" firstsixfeet speaks of... But as I've mentioned already earlier - I unfortunately get to fish a "fish-bowl" ,450 acres, 90% of my season, I have a thousand muskie lures...and every year I try to find something they just wont be able to resist. Doesn't work. The only two lures that have made any difference on this "fish bowl" the last 10 years have been the weagle and double 10's.....why? well a weagle does a better job of imitating a wounded shad than a giant jackpot - these fish see thousands of weagles and they keeping eating them, when the water temps/ conditions are right......I've caught the same fish within the same week on 10's, 10's are a seasonal lure on the lake as well. They eat these two lures because they trick fish better and they continue to do so year after year......again, they eat lures that appeal to them, lures that imitate the forage, something of the size they want to chase, something that simulates there lateral line, something moving really slow, something moving really fast...... I've never had a lure go cold, when conditions are right good "lures" ..."trick" fish. I've taken a dozen individuals on this lake - most throw a lure I don't or wouldn't (i throw 5 baits on this lake) - I cant find any five that are better - over 1000's of hrs.
They don't eat Weagles on Pleasant Creek like they did the first season they saw them, that I have first hand knowledge of. Not buying it.
Posted 4/10/2012 5:47 PM (#552289 - in reply to #551042) Subject: Re: Fish Conditioning or Fish Smarts
Posts: 2015
Sure they do! name a more productive bait when the water is 59-63 and the shad are spawning in the shallows? And the same fish will eat them year after year. Lots more pressure on the little puddle than 04!!!! other factors have made the fish "seem" tougher to catch...but get the conditions right weagle is still one of the few bait they wont follow and refuse.
2010 a tournament was won when conditions were right - I think a dozen fish were caught that day, at least 80% ate a weagle other 20% ate a jackpot...many other lures were tried...the fish would ONLY eat WTD that day. But why?.. they have seen the bait a hundred times.
Edited by IAJustin 4/10/2012 6:16 PM
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